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Kurieg posted:No. They specifically added three things that we know of. Sounds real bad, counterproductive and insulting to everyone Also I'm guessing WWP are gonna shut down nWoD soon
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Jan 10, 2018 01:38
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Re: counterfeit board games, here's an album of pictures. http://imgur.com/a/oVhkJ   
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Jan 10, 2018 01:41
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Lightning Lord posted:Also I'm guessing WWP are gonna shut down nWoD soon The don't really have all that much incentive to. They license out nWoD for Onyx Path to produce.
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Jan 10, 2018 01:46
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Kurieg posted:No. They specifically added three things that we know of. Holy poo poo 
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Jan 10, 2018 01:51
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moths posted:If this were 100% true, then nobody would be buying sub-par counterfeits. First of all, I don't think there's any evidence that people are deliberately buying counterfeits. They're buying the $20 version that shows up on the internet looking exactly the same as the $40 version. Second of all, there's a huge difference between Settlers/Ticket to Ride/Pandemic (Legacy or normal), which could develop and sell a budget version, and the vast majority of board games which don't have nearly that market and depend on people seeing them and responding well to sell. To be honest the games that Asmodee is listing as heavily counterfeited aren't even particularly elaborate sets (arguably Pandemic Legacy, for its legacy components, but its component quality is pretty average) so calling out wooden parts and premium bits as the problem is Missing the Point.
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Jan 10, 2018 01:52
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Lightning Lord posted:Sounds real bad, counterproductive and insulting to everyone well, they changed the name to Chronicles of Darkness so there'd be no confusion. And shutting it down would be suicidally ill conceived for WWP. People already left in droves over He Who Shall Not Be Named's poopsmear mc butt adventure. If they cut off OPP from their own licenses no one except for the most diehard fanboys would give them a second thought. Bedlamdan posted:Holy poo poo You're smiling, I don't like that you're smiling, this is a bad thing.
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Jan 10, 2018 01:56
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PJOmega posted:The whole interview seems extremely over the top without any grounding. Speculating that 70% of some products sold in North America are actually counterfeits is a hell of a claim to make. All without a single example. I've heard of instances where cast offs and extra stock are sold on the side by factory managers as a side gig in other industries. Since they're producing so much, they'll just produce a bit more off the record or claim it was damaged and couldn't be used. This is mostly in the technology sector from what I heard but since board games are getting to be a big thing, I wouldn't be surprised if it was happening there. xiw posted:Re: counterfeit board games, here's an album of pictures. This seems like they knew someone in the factory, got some of the paper, cardboard, and sticker components, and then supplied their own plastic ones since they're easy to duplicate in China. Alternatively they made scans but that seems like too much work and is too close to be that. Anything with the same text will probably use the master files or be a cast off because most counterfeit stuff has terrible English errors. It's not something the average Chinese person thinks about because they don't speak English and honestly can't tell how bad it looks. A good deal of fakes are for the domestic market too so no one even cares or pays too much attention. Games Workshop, which is a company I'm actually not disappointed in lately, is terribly overpriced. Their stranglehold on their stores doesn't allow for competitive price lowering either but that might change in the near future with the changes to online selling. I worked for a game store that sold bits from 40K kits about 5-6 years ago and GW was relentless about trying to figure out who they were and trying to shut them down. They had their online stuff through a dummy corporation in Georgia so they never caught them to my knowledge. This was all just taking apart kits and selling the bits, which they would have been blacklisted for. They also sold full kits at their store, ran events, and never sold the bits in store.
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Jan 10, 2018 02:27
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Kurieg posted:Apparently the black furies have decided to stop helping humanity because they aren't sufficiently woke. Oh, Lord, they're going to have a Riot Grrls Camp, aren't they?
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Jan 10, 2018 02:40
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Time for a reminder that due to the metaphysics of Werewolf, 'gently caress humanity' is basically the worst decision a tribe can make. It's why a lot of Revised went into exploring whether tribes truly hated mankind or just mankind's potential for evil/etc. This is because, for those not familiar, the basic fight of Werewolf is against the forces of the Wyrm, and the single most numerous force - banes and fomori - is spawned by human misery. It might take ten fomori to down a werewolf in a fight - but it only takes one to bring about events that spawn a lot more. So this whole 'nah mankind sucks, we won't help them' thing is basically desertion from the fight. It's going 'hey, you know what sounds like a good idea? Letting humans suffer indiscriminately in the exact ways that will spawn many of our enemies, who already have an advantage of numbers, while eroding our number of possible allies in the fight!' It's the dumbest thing, and every time a 1/2E Werewolf fan goes 'the impergium is objectively good' or 'why help humans' or 'werewolves shouldn't care about gay rights' they're showing that they completely missed a basic truth of the cosmology. Human suffering = more banes = stronger Wyrm.
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Jan 10, 2018 03:15
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RocknRollaAyatollah posted:Games Workshop, which is a company I'm actually not disappointed in lately, is terribly overpriced. Their stranglehold on their stores doesn't allow for competitive price lowering either but that might change in the near future with the changes to online selling. I worked for a game store that sold bits from 40K kits about 5-6 years ago and GW was relentless about trying to figure out who they were and trying to shut them down. They had their online stuff through a dummy corporation in Georgia so they never caught them to my knowledge. This was all just taking apart kits and selling the bits, which they would have been blacklisted for. They also sold full kits at their store, ran events, and never sold the bits in store. Back in the very early 90s I was in charge of miniatures at Games of Berkeley. I moved a fuckton of the 40K boxed sets by breaking them up. Take the old plastic Space Marine box. $22.95 in 1990, the way the sprues were set up I could turn that into 17 packs with two miniatures each for $1.95. Sure, the packs with the heavy weapons went first, but two bucks was an impulse buy - you could round out squads or do conversions on the cheap. The Terminator box was even more in demand, 1 @ 29.95 turned into 4 @ $9.95 with a regular Termie and a heavy weapon or special character in each baggie. GW was a continent and an ocean away, they never had to know. That all came to an end when Toy World management finally put us on their SKU system. All of a sudden every miniature at the same price point was the same SKU. And I couldn't re-order because we already had hundreds of that SKU. I quit. One of the execs took me out for a coffee and asked why. The poor SOB just couldn't get that selling out of the popular stuff - we'd move a couple dozen Julie Guthrie minis a weekend - and staying sold out would kill sales. "Oh the cool paladin figure is sold out and I can't re-order more because now we think they're literally the same product as the RAFM skeletons that cost the same, why not use one of them for your character ?" No, I'm not still salty, why do you ask ?
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Jan 10, 2018 03:40
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The dumbest thing about werewolves being immune to birth control is that a silver alloy IUD would be drat near 100% effective in a werewolf.admanb posted:so calling out wooden parts and premium bits as the problem is Missing the Point. Well yeah, the problem is that it costs $60. The premium bits are arguably why it costs that much.
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Jan 10, 2018 04:16
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outlier posted:I recall seeing quite a few on AliExpress. The prices were okay: cheap but not so cheap that it was worth waiting a month to get the item.
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Jan 10, 2018 04:18
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Yeah, there's always some big business at cons from people who do reselling / chopping of GW mini sets. While I wouldn't condone copying, it should be no mystery that when you fail to service your customers in this day and age like GW does, other people will swoop them up by hook or crook. Especially by crook.
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Jan 10, 2018 04:20
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I think entertainment media should definitely charge more, and I've yet to own a boardgame and feel like I've paid too much for it.
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Jan 10, 2018 04:33
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moths posted:Well yeah, the problem is that it costs $60. Yes stuff like Pandemic Legacy is in the $60 to $70 range, but that is the more involved premium version of the game. You could cut some money off that price with cheaper components, but not that much. You still need to pay for the tooling to make wooden components. Depending on what you need, plastic may well be the cheaper option. Also you'd probably be shocked to find out how much good custom sticker sheets cost, just to print them, let alone pay the graphic designers to make decent ones. EDIT: Actually I think I see the fundamental misunderstanding here. If a company is selling a board game, they've spent a bunch of money before a single box hits the shelf. Art, development, testing, marketing, tooling, just to start with. A counterfeiter benefits from all of that without having to pay for it. They don't have to do their own marketing, they don't have to pay the developers or artists for their work, they just piggy back off what the creators have done. They're stiffing a whole bunch of people who should be paid for that work. Comrade Gorbash fucked around with this message at 04:44 on Jan 10, 2018 |
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Jan 10, 2018 04:39
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7 Wonders and Ticket to Ride MSRP at 50 USD. Pandemic is the only one of those that's 40 dollars. Average board game prices range from 35 to 65 dollars depending on the manufacturer and the contents, not including small games like Love Letter, Werewolf, etc. I think those are completely fair prices though.
S.J. fucked around with this message at 04:47 on Jan 10, 2018 |
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Jan 10, 2018 04:45
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Something like Love Letter requires significantly less playtesting and design labor (though it still obviously has some), I don't think it's surprising that they charge so little for the "basically just mechanics" version of the game. Ignoring the work that goes into the actual design process is a huge issue among board game hobbyists.
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Jan 10, 2018 04:46
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Loomer posted:Time for a reminder that due to the metaphysics of Werewolf, 'gently caress humanity' is basically the worst decision a tribe can make. It's why a lot of Revised went into exploring whether tribes truly hated mankind or just mankind's potential for evil/etc. My favorite is how the Red Talons, explicitly the most Wyrm aligned tribe who are VIOLENTLY anti-human even agree 'well yea we need to kinda protect those idiots from themselves even if they're stupid monkeys who probably are gonna destroy the world being stupid monkeys'. But no let's hear more about how the tribe all about helping the victims of the patriarchy, doing cool poo poo like showing up as crazy gay biker ladies to escort abused women to safety and junk, and taking in Metis cubs who have been kicked out and all, actually don't give a poo poo about others. Gee I wonder why they picked the Furies to get this treatment and not assholes like the Get who, if I remember right, HAD NAZIS.
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Jan 10, 2018 04:49
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gradenko_2000 posted:I see bootleg boardgames on the regular here in the Philippines nowadays. No statistics, but they definitely exist. I saw a bootleg catan on sale at a discount store lol
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Jan 10, 2018 04:51
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sexpig by night posted:My favorite is how the Red Talons, explicitly the most Wyrm aligned tribe who are VIOLENTLY anti-human even agree 'well yea we need to kinda protect those idiots from themselves even if they're stupid monkeys who probably are gonna destroy the world being stupid monkeys'. They had Nazis, then they didn't have Nazis when Revised rolled around because the developers went 'what in the gently caress were we thinking' at the time. And because, in-universe, the Garou recognized that 'let the nazis beat the poo poo out of you, that's how you win' is nonsense and 'beat the poo poo out of the nazis first' is a much better option.
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Jan 10, 2018 04:56
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I mean the argument that consumers are deliberately seeking out shoddy counterfeit knockoffs of board games as a protest against overinflated prices presupposes that the people buying these knockoffs are doing so for that reason instead of just searching for "board games best deals" and buying what's cheapest, and in the same article the guy talks about having to field a bunch of customer complaints from people who I would assume have unknowingly purchased counterfeits thinking they're the real thing. I also feel compelled to point out that even in the post iTunes world tons of people still pirate music regularly, it's just instead of downloading albums over a bittorrent client they go to Youtube, type in the name of what they want to listen to, and hit play.
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Jan 10, 2018 04:57
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Kurieg posted:You're smiling, I don't like that you're smiling, this is a bad thing. I come here largely to smile over how absurdly bad some things are. That's pretty hardcore bad.
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Jan 10, 2018 05:03
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sexpig by night posted:My favorite is how the Red Talons, explicitly the most Wyrm aligned tribe who are VIOLENTLY anti-human even agree 'well yea we need to kinda protect those idiots from themselves even if they're stupid monkeys who probably are gonna destroy the world being stupid monkeys'. Oh I assure you the Get will probably be even worse. They just haven't stated their design goals for them. But considering he said that he wants the entire garou nation to be "Cryptofascist enviromentalists" You can bet that they're going to go heavy on the "Fascist".
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Jan 10, 2018 06:05
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Kurieg posted:Oh I assure you the Get will probably be even worse. They just haven't stated their design goals for them. But considering he said that he wants the entire garou nation to be "Cryptofascist enviromentalists" You can bet that they're going to go heavy on the "Fascist". he WHAT That's not even old WoD bad! They used to be cartoon anarchist enviro-terrorists! The only fascists were the Fangs and literally every other Tribe treated them as 'yea ok grandpa you're the most pure wolf'
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Jan 10, 2018 06:14
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Did you miss the like.. 3 months last year when the WoD thread was titled "Will the Werewolves remain crypto fascist eco-terrorist? " quote:Will the Werewolves remain crypto fascist eco-terrorist?
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Jan 10, 2018 06:21
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Like it can't really be overstated how much the new new White Wolf really fuckin sucks, because boy howdy do they ever.
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Jan 10, 2018 06:23
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sexpig by night posted:My favorite is how the Red Talons, explicitly the most Wyrm aligned tribe who are VIOLENTLY anti-human even agree 'well yea we need to kinda protect those idiots from themselves even if they're stupid monkeys who probably are gonna destroy the world being stupid monkeys'. It's not even had for the Get, as far as Apocalypse goes. One of the stories in the braided novel for kicking off Apoc, When Will You Rage, was about a Nazi Get trying to murder the poo poo out of a Jewish Get Kinfolk, in 1990's San Francisco IIRC.
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Jan 10, 2018 06:27
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Also remember the MET rules that got spoiled where the Garou get a rite that lets them turn people with a Bite, but it has like a... 5% survival rate, and they're using it on all of their kinfolk in an idiotic and short sighted attempt to shore up their numbers. Doubly so because the people who survive are rendered sterile. Which is probably why the nuGarou Nation is so angry about birth control, the people who can breed need to pop out a ludicrous amount of babies to keep up with the rates of attrition they're creating, and they need true breeding garou to keep up their stock of 'recruits'. the MET book also says nothing about the fact that if the Garou Nation can suddenly do this, so can the loving black spiral dancers, and they have even less moral compunctions about using it. Oh, also. Swedracula took OPP to task for not having the balls to touch on 9/11 in New York By Night. quote:Where did White Wolf “get it wrong” last time around? What are your least favorite parts of the IP? The book was sent to printers on 9/14/01. quote:New York by Night was never intended to be a “high-powered” setting. You’ll see as you read through it that its focus is on the nightly struggle in the unlives of young Kindred. It’s not the playground of ancient elders, moving pawns across the chessboard of the Jyhad. You’ll notice a lack of “power players,” both in the characters and in the environment itself. There’s no hidden vampire conspiracy revealed to be in the UN, no continent-spanning vendetta waiting to be settled by a Methuselah who dismantles the Statue of Liberty with her own talons. Kurieg fucked around with this message at 06:42 on Jan 10, 2018 |
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Jan 10, 2018 06:31
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For the direction of a 'lead storyteller' who likes to rant about maturity, it's deeply ironic that the 'mature' tack of NuWolf eschews actual mature responses to complicated issues ('human suffering = more banes; but I can't claw the concept of human suffering to death yet. Time to establish a charity!') in favour of gunpoint forcing humans to gently caress wolves and poo poo.
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Jan 10, 2018 06:46
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Kurieg posted:the MET book also says nothing about the fact that if the Garou Nation can suddenly do this, so can the loving black spiral dancers, and they have even less moral compunctions about using it. The BSDs are mostly Metis anyway, so they got nothing to lose. Hell, even if it doesn't work, it's probably a nasty enough death to make some banes off of.
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Jan 10, 2018 07:18
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gradenko_2000 posted:Ross Payton of Role Playing Public Radio had a patron-only side-project called "WoD The Heck", wherein he was doing read-throughs of World of Darkness books and watching the reactions of his various hapless guests. Strangely I am not surprised that a White Wolf book has regressive views, but what the hell happened with Hagen? Did he go Full Fash, or is it more "I'd much rather live in a white ethnostate than a Cultural Marxist dictatorship" cryptosignalling? Either way's bad, but this sounds like a hell of a story behind it.
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Jan 10, 2018 07:46
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Libertad! posted:Strangely I am not surprised that a White Wolf book has regressive views, but what the hell happened with Hagen? Did he go Full Fash, or is it more "I'd much rather live in a white ethnostate than a Cultural Marxist dictatorship" cryptosignalling? Either way's bad, but this sounds like a hell of a story behind it. Nothing so brazen, he just thinks liberals will defeat Nazis if they allow themselves to be beaten up and get media attention for it. Basically, that 'you punch a Nazi and you lose the moral high ground' BS. Because apparently the only moral issue with Nazis is that they occasionally punch people?
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Jan 10, 2018 07:51
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Libertad! posted:what the hell happened with Hagen? Did he go Full Fash, or is it more "I'd much rather live in a white ethnostate than a Cultural Marxist dictatorship" cryptosignalling? Either way's bad, but this sounds like a hell of a story behind it. You can check back a few pages of this thread for the full lowdown, but I was paraphrasing a lot, and the original issue with Hagen is that he claimed that it was better to allow yourself to be punched by Nazis (rather than punch back/punch first), and that this would allow people to "win". I'm fairly sure what he means by this is that letting Nazis commit violence upon you will horrify the rest of the world enough to get them to mobilize against the Nazis, but of course this falls apart if you don't consider direct action against Nazis to be morally acceptable in the first place. So to be clear, I don't think Hagen expressed explicit or crypto-fascist views, so much as the unproductively centrist position of "punching a Nazi makes you a Nazi".
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Jan 10, 2018 07:54
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I think once you accuse someone of beating their spouse and then block their spouse for calling you out about it you lose the right to simply be frustratingly centrist.
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Jan 10, 2018 08:07
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Mr. Maltose posted:I think once you accuse someone of beating their spouse and then block their spouse for calling you out about it you lose the right to simply be frustratingly centrist. There's that, and I do agree, but that wasn't in the RPPR post that I was posting about.
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Jan 10, 2018 08:10
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It's also darkly funny in just recent historical context to again say that peaceful resistance is the best way to protest Nazis and to prevent them from gaining power. That was sort of tried before.
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Jan 10, 2018 08:11
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gradenko_2000 posted:There's that, and I do agree, but that wasn't in the RPPR post that I was posting about. Oh yeah, that's totally fair. I thought we were discussing the thing in general and not specifically the response by RPPR.
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Jan 10, 2018 08:26
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Darwinism posted:It's also darkly funny in just recent historical context to again say that peaceful resistance is the best way to protest Nazis and to prevent them from gaining power. Look, if all those anti-fascist street brawlers in interwar Germany had just done the sensible thing and let the Brownshirts kick them to death in the streets, we never would have had to fight World War Two. So really, Hitler did nothing wrong. It was all Karl Höltermann's fault!
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Jan 10, 2018 08:35
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Peaceful resistance works fine in certain circumstances. For example, it can work great when it exposes your enemy's hypocrisy. However, Nazis straight up say they want to exterminate people. You are not exposing any hypocrisy when you allow them to do this.
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Jan 10, 2018 08:51
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gradenko_2000 posted:You can check back a few pages of this thread for the full lowdown, but I was paraphrasing a lot, and the original issue with Hagen is that he claimed that it was better to allow yourself to be punched by Nazis (rather than punch back/punch first), and that this would allow people to "win". Pretty standard Old Leftism. "It's only moral to use violence if you get others to do it for you and your hands remain pristine."
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Jan 10, 2018 08:53
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