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KYOON GRIFFEY JR posted:why are you saying gently caress California for a rule change that would have benefited you Glad it wasn't just me. I thought I was misreading it somehow.
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Jan 8, 2018 18:26
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I think he thought it was ridiculous to be asked for a w-2 from a previous job, and I think that is ridiculous as well. I think he was labelling them being comfortable asking a part of "california culture", and that needing a law to say not to do that is the, err, rule that proves the exception? There's my interpretation.
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Jan 8, 2018 19:05
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Like if oklahoma holds a press conference and announces that, as of today, you no longer will you be able to marry your siblings in oklahoma, nobody concludes "oh I guess they don't like marrying their siblings over there". If anything, they'd conclude the opposite, because they had to pass the law to prevent it.
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Jan 8, 2018 19:08
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Defenestration posted:no tech background nor programming skills. I am in the final stages of implementing a database, at which point I will have super desirable experience that can translate to both the corporate and non-profit sectors. Question here: how do you know your database implementation is reliable, scalable, proper protected from data loss, etc if you have no tech background? If you haven't demonstrable gained those skills I'm not sure how this experience translates into much of anything, as there are plenty of tools to just make a "database" that take little more than some MS Office experience. If you've skipped over some training or methodology you've used to do this project your answer as to BATNA is going to be much different.
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Jan 8, 2018 19:30
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Motronic posted:Question here: how do you know your database implementation is reliable, scalable, proper protected from data loss, etc if you have no tech background? If you haven't demonstrable gained those skills I'm not sure how this experience translates into much of anything, as there are plenty of tools to just make a "database" that take little more than some MS Office experience.
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Jan 8, 2018 20:42
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Jeffrey of YOSPOS posted:I don't think this matters. You don't have to have created a world class database, just be able to talk about it like one, including design issues you had and how you addressed them. Interviewers can't generally tell anything about what you've done, only what you say you've done and can talk about competently. So talk about how you load-tested the database with <some number> of concurrent connections hammering it for scalability, perhaps over a long period of times with bursts for reliability, etc. Maybe you didn't actually do these things, but maybe you can at least think about them and describe how you would test to a greater degree in order to scale it. Basically, sounding competent matters more than being competent as far as resume line items go. I must have explained poorly: I think exactly what you said is exactly what matters. So was it enough of "building a database" to at least be aware of these things, or is it something created in Access '98? That's my real question. One is something that will help you the other is not.
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Jan 8, 2018 20:57
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Motronic posted:I must have explained poorly: I think exactly what you said is exactly what matters. I'll concede what what might be meant by "building a database" is...broader than I initially conceived.
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Jan 8, 2018 21:15
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Am I the only one that if a prospective employer asked to see my W2 I would probably say "Thank you for your time but we have nothing further to discuss" and end the interview? If you're desperate then you take what you can get I guess but wow there is no way working for that company could end well.
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Jan 8, 2018 23:59
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I would probably not work there either but I don't think I'd end the conversation, I'd just say no and see what they do. Refusing to follow a rule or do as asked is its own reward, to me, a child, and I like to wallow in it.
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Jan 9, 2018 00:22
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This may be the wrong thread but I need some advice. I've been working as a 1099 contractor for about a year and 3 months for a small business. I'm very happy there as of this point in time. I've received regular raises every 3-6 months. And I feel I have very decent benefits such as: -Only working 7 and a half hours each day and getting paid for 8. -Being able to take a day off and almost always get paid for it (usually 1 every 2 months - often a bit more let's say 8 Days a year) -Having 8 paid holidays and 1 week of paid vacation My boss is very kind and asked if I wanted to continue working as a 1099 or switch to a W2. I had previously decided not to switch to a W2 last year. Doing so will involve some limits most likely on some of these benefits as switching to W2 will involve clocking in and out and being paid hourly more so than weekly I presume. I may lost those 8 extra days off a year. Of course, my take-home pay will be lower - but my taxes will also be significantly lower. But additionally clocking in and out could decrease my income if I do not work my full 40 hours which could happen. It will also take a month to receive for my first check upon switching which is a lot of time to wait. I'm trying to figure out whether or not it's really worth continuing or switching.
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Jan 9, 2018 00:24
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The benefits and drawbacks of becoming an employee rather than a contractor vary wildly based on your jurisdiction and the specific company and job, so I can't help you there. I'll only say that all of this:CaptainPrivy posted:Doing so will involve some limits most likely on some of these benefits as switching to W2 will involve clocking in and out and being paid hourly more so than weekly I presume. I may lost those 8 extra days off a year. is negotiable.
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Jan 9, 2018 00:27
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While living in CA is nice, I don’t really get a lot of benefit from all of the insane rules we have. Managing people in CA kind of sucks, since there is extra stuff you have to know about. I appreciate knowing that I can’t ask about salary any more, but it’s kind of nice being able to ask from the hiring perspective. Double edged sword and all that.
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Jan 9, 2018 04:11
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Motronic posted:Question here: how do you know your database implementation is reliable, scalable, proper protected from data loss, etc if you have no tech background? If you haven't demonstrable gained those skills I'm not sure how this experience translates into much of anything, as there are plenty of tools to just make a "database" that take little more than some MS Office experience. This is my museum's first DAMS, and this will bring us to the back of the curve. Most places are in the process of getting their second generation DAMS now. But because it's new and cool to my place, I am hoping that people will see its value. The social media people, for example, are quivering in anticipation of all the neat stuff they can post, without having to beg curators for content.
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Jan 9, 2018 04:45
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Ultimate Mango posted:While living in CA is nice, I don’t really get a lot of benefit from all of the insane rules we have. Managing people in CA kind of sucks, since there is extra stuff you have to know about. I appreciate knowing that I can’t ask about salary any more, but it’s kind of nice being able to ask from the hiring perspective. You know (theoretically at least) what your absolute max you're willing to pay for the position is, and if someone's salary is higher than that you can just move on to the next candidate, so really it's just about a tool to help you pay less than what you think an employee is worth. Previous salary is not indicative of future performance. It's not a double edged sword unless you think every organization has a duty to minimize an employee's pay (which some would argue they do, but that's also how we got into this boat where employees have no faith or loyalty in their employers and organizations can lose good people for what amounts to a pittance in the grand scheme of things).
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Jan 9, 2018 06:21
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Jordan7hm posted:You know (theoretically at least) what your absolute max you're willing to pay for the position is, and if someone's salary is higher than that you can just move on to the next candidate, so really it's just about a tool to help you pay less than what you think an employee is worth. Previous salary is not indicative of future performance. That’s good perspective. I honestly hadn’t considered it that way. I have certainly worked in organizations that focus too hard on giving employees the bare minimum, and it certainly creates the problems you suggest. Where I work now we actually work to take care of people, but it is helpful to for certain types of roles understand the kind of comp backgrounds people have. Highly paid, high variable earners can be tricky, and having poor alignment for those roles and their comp is no fun.
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Jan 9, 2018 06:32
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Ultimate Mango posted:That’s good perspective. I honestly hadn’t considered it that way. Why can't you just tell the potential employee the range you're willing to pay and let them decide if they want to move forward in the process? Employers already hold most of the cards in a salary negotiation. They know how much they pay similar positions, have market research for similar positions externally, and know the expected value of the employee. Given that they should have all the information they need to adequately price the position I don't see a reason to allow them to strongarm people into giving up their current salary so they can underpay them.
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Jan 9, 2018 10:21
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Defenestration posted:Sure, I'll clarify this a bit. After a long research and user listening tour period, I contracted us with an enterprise DAMS vendor that has many other cultural sector clients. We host on their cloud so they do that maintenance (which is good since we have 3 IT people onsite total). I meanwhile project managed the rest of the implementation: organized the metadata schema, folder structure, initial asset delivery (over 100,000, which will grow), user groups, permissions, and request forms. I will plan all the training sessions, do an internal campaign to promote the thing (buy in is very important), and act as general admin in the future (adding/deactivating users, making sure people don't upload fool garbage, checking the analytics.
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Jan 9, 2018 10:37
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asur posted:Why can't you just tell the potential employee the range you're willing to pay and let them decide if they want to move forward in the process? I mean, not that I disagree, but I imagine the exchange would go like this every single time: “We can offer 80-100k” “Ok, well I’ll need 100k then and won’t take less”
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Jan 9, 2018 13:26
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I would tell them the median of the range and see what they do with it. Offering a range as the employer is as stupid as offering a range as the prospective employee.
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Jan 9, 2018 13:51
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ITT more-nerdy nerds argue with less-nerdy nerds about what is an isn't a database SHUT THE gently caress UP AND TALK ABOUT SALARY NEGOTIATIONS INSTEAD OF WAVING YOUR DATABASE DESIGN DICK IN THE AIR
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Jan 9, 2018 14:54
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Ralith posted:I'm not sure what that is, but it sure doesn't sound like a database in the usual technical sense. Maybe some sort of hosted CMS. The question is how do I leverage this into a raise when I don't want to leave my current, very good position?
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Jan 9, 2018 14:56
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Defenestration posted:The point is that lots of places have DAMS and want people to implement or run them. I'm not sure why people focused on the database experience. Lots of people have really great experience, but without that offer in hand and the immediate threat of you leaving your employer has no real reason to give you more money. And if your BATNA isn't at least as good as what you currently have, they call your bluff and you stick around, you've basically ruined your negotiating credibility at your current position.
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Jan 9, 2018 15:12
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Defenestration posted:Sure, I'll clarify this a bit. After a long research and user listening tour period, I contracted us with an enterprise DAMS vendor that has many other cultural sector clients. We host on their cloud so they do that maintenance (which is good since we have 3 IT people onsite total). I meanwhile project managed the rest of the implementation: organized the metadata schema, folder structure, initial asset delivery (over 100,000, which will grow), user groups, permissions, and request forms. I will plan all the training sessions, do an internal campaign to promote the thing (buy in is very important), and act as general admin in the future (adding/deactivating users, making sure people don't upload fool garbage, checking the analytics. So you learned how to be a product or project manager. Positioning yourself as that is a LOT more valuable than a database guy. All of the soft skills you used to do this (advocating, training, etc) are both far more valuable and far more portable than the technical minutiae required from your doing this project as a one man show. I mean, unless you want to strike out on your own an be a guy who implements these systems. In that case, go back to your vendor and see if they want to hire you or feed you with leads of their customers that need implementation help.
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Jan 9, 2018 15:34
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I made it to 4th interview as one of two candidates for a position I wasn't huge on. I've done the job before and it's okay but I'm not thrilled about it. So I know I'm gonna ask for a lot of money. I manage to get the salary range out of the HR guy and they are paying 58-72. Great! I've done this job before, know my poo poo, I ask for 70 in the job interview. I don't get it, but that's okay. I find this out because the guy who does get it calls me for a reference. We worked at the same company learning this same sort of job. He has more experience then me and has a certification (not required for the position). I know he doesn't know how much he is worth or how to negotiate. When they asked him what he wanted he asked for 22 an hour, they gave him 25. This thread is doing the Lord's work
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Jan 9, 2018 22:11
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Jesus Christ. Always negotiate.
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Jan 9, 2018 22:29
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Goodpancakes posted:I made it to 4th interview as one of two candidates for a position I wasn't huge on. I've done the job before and it's okay but I'm not thrilled about it. So I know I'm gonna ask for a lot of money. I manage to get the salary range out of the HR guy and they are paying 58-72. Great! I've done this job before, know my poo poo, I ask for 70 in the job interview. Jesus. I'm not sure if it's better to tell him so he can try to fix it later or just let him think he's doing fine.
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Jan 9, 2018 23:12
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Chaotic Flame posted:Jesus. I'm not sure if it's better to tell him so he can try to fix it later or just let him think he's doing fine. Too late to fix it now, only thing he can do is immediately start looking for a job somewhere else. Not like his new employer is going to give him a 50% pay increase if he comes back immediately and says "actually after accepting your offer I checked and it turns out I way underbid, 50% pay increase plz"
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Jan 10, 2018 01:43
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Eric the Mauve posted:Too late to fix it now, only thing he can do is immediately start looking for a job somewhere else. Not like his new employer is going to give him a 50% pay increase if he comes back immediately and says "actually after accepting your offer I checked and it turns out I way underbid, 50% pay increase plz" I meant in the coming year or so. He can try to spin increases at review time somehow? Maybe? Who am I kidding? He's done. I'm surprised they didn't even offer him the bottom of the range.
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Jan 10, 2018 01:58
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Eric the Mauve posted:Too late to fix it now, only thing he can do is immediately start looking for a job somewhere else. Not like his new employer is going to give him a 50% pay increase if he comes back immediately and says "actually after accepting your offer I checked and it turns out I way underbid, 50% pay increase plz" I actually did this once and got a pretty significant pay increase after they offered me the top of my range before I accepted. If he's actually willing to walk away then he certainly does have the ability to negotiate up still.
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Jan 10, 2018 02:14
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He called me asking for a reference and that's when I found out he was the other candidate. I asked him what he asked for and he told me 22 an hour. I was totally stunned. I told him then on the phone what they told me. 58-72. At that point he didn't know what they were going to offer him. His negotiation for pay would begin the next day when they officially sent a written offer. Why he didn't ask for more money then I do not know. Maybe he couldn't believe how loving terribly underpaid his previous position was. He trained me at my last position, has a few years more experience, and a certification and I negotiated to be paid more then him when we worked together. Because I was making more then 22 an hour then. This is what happens when you don't know what you are worth and how to negotiate.
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Jan 10, 2018 02:20
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Chaotic Flame posted:I meant in the coming year or so. He can try to spin increases at review time somehow? Maybe? I'm surprised they offered him a cent more than what he asked for, myself.
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Jan 10, 2018 02:22
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Goodpancakes posted:He called me asking for a reference and that's when I found out he was the other candidate. I asked him what he asked for and he told me 22 an hour. I was totally stunned. I told him then on the phone what they told me. 58-72. At that point he didn't know what they were going to offer him. His negotiation for pay would begin the next day when they officially sent a written offer. Why he didn't ask for more money then I do not know. Maybe he couldn't believe how loving terribly underpaid his previous position was. He trained me at my last position, has a few years more experience, and a certification and I negotiated to be paid more then him when we worked together. Because I was making more then 22 an hour then. I feel this entire story needs to go in the OP as a warning.
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Jan 10, 2018 02:32
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Goodpancakes posted:He called me asking for a reference and that's when I found out he was the other candidate. I asked him what he asked for and he told me 22 an hour. I was totally stunned. I told him then on the phone what they told me. 58-72. Is the 58-72 range an annual salary of 58k - 72k, or is it also dollars per hour?
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Jan 10, 2018 02:39
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Droo posted:Is the 58-72 range an annual salary of 58k - 72k, or is it also dollars per hour? Annualized. So 28-35 an hour.
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Jan 10, 2018 02:43
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Chaotic Flame posted:I feel this entire story needs to go in the OP as a warning. Agreed.
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Jan 10, 2018 15:41
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Vox Nihili posted:I'm surprised they offered him a cent more than what he asked for, myself. If you offer a pittance more the employee will believe they are super valued and screw themselves in the future with raise negotiations.
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Jan 13, 2018 11:30
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Hi, incredible thread. I might have an upcoming opportunity to use an outside offer to leverage a better salary at my current position, or, accept the new offer. There are a few pros/cons to each position, but, overall, I'd really be happy either direction I go. My questions centers on the etiquette of this leveraging strategy. Is it acceptable to receive the offer from the outside company, turn around with a counter offer, and then take the response of the counter offer back to my current employer to see what they can do? Or is it best to take the initial offer from the outside company back to the current company and start there? (Or maybe another option I'm not familiar with?) I'm simply trying to maximize this potential opportunity since the whole leveraging game can only be used sparingly. Thanks so much!
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Jan 13, 2018 15:39
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You really have to feel it out for yourself, but be warned that in many cases when you come to your employer with "I received an offer for $X from Acme Corp., will you match or should I tender my resignation?" the current employer will agree to match just to buy themselves time to quietly line up your replacement before firing you. Sometimes that's not the case but it's for you to decide what your risk of that is. Usually it's best to jump to the company that's already demonstrated they want you there.
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Jan 13, 2018 17:10
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Fireside Nut posted:Hi, incredible thread. I might have an upcoming opportunity to use an outside offer to leverage a better salary at my current position, or, accept the new offer. There are a few pros/cons to each position, but, overall, I'd really be happy either direction I go. If your company matched the outside company's reply to your counter, would you stay at your current place or leave? In other words, have you clearly defined at what point (in terms of offer details) you would leave vs stay? That might be a good place to start to try to decide if it's worth doing.
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Jan 13, 2018 18:13
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Eric the Mauve posted:You really have to feel it out for yourself, but be warned that in many cases when you come to your employer with "I received an offer for $X from Acme Corp., will you match or should I tender my resignation?" the current employer will agree to match just to buy themselves time to quietly line up your replacement before firing you. Pretty much every place I have worked that would even consider matching does exactly this. Most places I take it as an immediate resignation. If people come to me wanting to make more money, we can usually find a way. If people come wanting to shake me down with a competing offer, it’s adios. Even if we do match to ‘save’ someone, you know it’s a matter of time before they go.
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Jan 14, 2018 03:46
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