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Trauma Dog 3000
Aug 30, 2017

by SA Support Robot

BioEnchanted posted:

The Operation C.H.I.M.P level in Ape Escape 2 is fun, but really difficult and fairly long, and then it ends in a boss fight. A funny boss fight that redeems Yellow Monkey a bit, but still I'm loving exhausted. The moonbase better not be that long. Also I don't like that Spectre has gone from a calculating genius mastermind to a cackling lunatic - he was never crazy in the first game, but now he's guffawing like an idiot and it's hard to get as invested in the fight against him. His calmer persona in the first game was much more likable/interesting.

Okay I gotta say these sound like fake games

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Deceitful Penguin
Feb 16, 2011

Trauma Dog 3000 posted:

Okay I gotta say these sound like fake games
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t17KDr5M37A

MisterBibs
Jul 17, 2010

dolla dolla
bill y'all
Fun Shoe
"Huh, I never actually finished playing Defense Grid 2. I wonder why, I'll load it, maybe it's just-"

* insert at least five more levels of the campaign full of make-your-own-mazes levels and only a go-back-a-bit feature to compensate for maybe not doing something optimally*

"Oh yeah, that's why."

MisterBibs has a new favorite as of 04:56 on Jan 8, 2018

Somfin
Oct 25, 2010

In my🦚 experience🛠️ the big things🌑 don't teach you anything🤷‍♀️.

Nap Ghost

MisterBibs posted:

"Huh, I never actually finished playing Defense Grid 2. I wonder why, I'll load it, maybe it's just-"

* insert at least five more levels of the campaign full of make-your-own-mazes levels and only a go-back-a-bit feature to compensate for maybe not doing something optimally*

"Oh yeah, that's why."

Definitely an example of "more" not being "better." Holy poo poo it drags on and expects optimal strategy in a way the first never did.

Owl Inspector
Sep 14, 2011

Samuringa posted:

That's great

Grim Dawn has a similar thing where some equipment give you stats boosts that let you wear other pieces without having the necessary levels, but I thought that was cool.

I have no idea how titan quest compares, but in my experience with grim dawn, having your gear get into a knot of weird dependencies tends to mean there's something off about your build

It's definitely not fun when you take off your helmet and the rest of your armor explodes off of your body either way

Owl Inspector has a new favorite as of 08:48 on Jan 8, 2018

BioEnchanted
Aug 9, 2011

He plays for the dreamers that forgot how to dream, and the lovers that forgot how to love.
After beating Ape Escape 2, I feel I preferred the structure of the first one, although this one was fun too and had bosses that were technically better - taking out the Freaky Monkey 5 was fun and interesting, but despite their lack of personality the bosses in the first game felt like you were doing something substantial to Spectre beyond taking out his generals - you see him getting away on a massive time ship while he distracts you in the Trick Castle, and then after that every boss fight is taking one of Spectre's trump cards away, dismantling his empire piece by piece. First you destroy his timeship, then his spacestation and the mech that he was using it to build and he flees - until you capture all the monkeys in the game and pinpoint where he escaped to.

Then, all he has left is the floating throne that he is always seen in - at that point, Spectre is on the run, out of toys having to face you Mano-E-Monkey. After trashing his throne forcing him down to the platform he gets desperate, putting up a psychic shield and trying to blast you with psionic energy - it feels like Spectre is at the end of his rope, and so when you finally wear him down and capture him it feels like an acomplishment. Also due to having to have all the other monkeys it felt like you had to work to capture him.

In the second game you just beat his robot and he gets captured in a cutscene. Not quite as satisfying.

Somfin
Oct 25, 2010

In my🦚 experience🛠️ the big things🌑 don't teach you anything🤷‍♀️.

Nap Ghost

Digirat posted:

I have no idea how titan quest compares, but in my experience with grim dawn, having your gear get into a knot of weird dependencies tends to mean there's something off about your build

It's definitely not fun when you take off your helmet and the rest of your armor explodes off of your body either way

That may be why the prevailing wisdom for those Iron Lore ARPG games is 'never spend your base stat points.' Just so you can dig yourself out of a dependency snarl later on.

E: And Titan Quest is, if anything, a touch worse at it, because you have fewer item slots available.

Somfin has a new favorite as of 09:07 on Jan 8, 2018

Convex
Aug 19, 2010

Pseudohog posted:

Like the original Thief. "Hey, are you having fun sneaking around, knocking out guards and stealing everything that's not nailed down? Great, here's some catacombs full of zombies and spiders. gently caress it, we'll throw in some dinosaurs that spit acid as well, why the hell not"

To be fair it released at a time when people expected first person games to feature shooting monsters. Also it was criticised on release for not featuring multiplayer.

But yes Thief 1 is equally good and bad. 2 is far better

Ugly In The Morning
Jul 1, 2010
Pillbug

Somfin posted:

Definitely an example of "more" not being "better." Holy poo poo it drags on and expects optimal strategy in a way the first never did.

The early levels were pretty fun, too, so I hated the way it sank into poo poo towards the end.

And as much as I hate to agree with MrBibs about game design, “make your own maze” levels are the worst in any TD game they appear in.

Somfin
Oct 25, 2010

In my🦚 experience🛠️ the big things🌑 don't teach you anything🤷‍♀️.

Nap Ghost

Ugly In The Morning posted:

The early levels were pretty fun, too, so I hated the way it sank into poo poo towards the end.

And as much as I hate to agree with MrBibs about game design, “make your own maze” levels are the worst in any TD game they appear in.

I'm actually okay with the make your own maze mechanic in a bunch of those games, but I agree that DG has a habit of presenting an interestingly 'solvable' area and then just loving it up by throwing too many bodies at you in the first few waves, which forces you to re-play the first few waves a dozen times until you finally figure out, oh, if you block off these two passages and put a laser here it'll juuuuuust do enough damage to wipe that first crew out during their retreat phase, and I guess that's just how this level runs, fine.

E: And any game that has towers that are specifically effective against certain targets that doesn't allow you to prioritise tower targeting can go gently caress itself. Having to stick lasers in weird spots to make them scan over big groups properly is kind of interesting, but it's the player being forced to deal with mechanics that feel unfinished. Especially when your little earpiece companion tells you to 'kill that one fast!' or whatnot. I can't make the maze do that, ya dumb gently caress!

Somfin has a new favorite as of 12:33 on Jan 8, 2018

Mierenneuker
Apr 28, 2010


We're all going to experience changes in our life but only the best of us will qualify for front row seats.

That Titan Quest stat dependency story reminds me of something similar I experienced with Dungeon Hunter 2, an ARPG for mobiles from Gameloft from years ago. The game had achievements, one of them for beating the game without using points. The wording was very vague however: no stat points, no skill/feat points? I liked the game enough that I went with both, so I just had base stats and the special attack you got at level 1.

Items gave you additional stats, however almost all the gear had stat requirements of its own. The exception were rings, rings never had any requirements. So I ended up using rings to equip gear, to equip other gear. You've heard people mention the phrase "inventory Tetris" before? This was "inventory Jenga".

Halfway through the game I accidentally hit the button to optimize the gear you were wearing? which brought the whole thing crashing down and suddenly my character was a pauper instead of a prince. I ended up grinding for an hour, keeping all the gear until I had the building blocks for my best stuff again.

The fact that I was able to pull it all off just showed how ridiculously easy the starting difficulty was. I had to chug a shitload of healing potions during the final boss tho.

Drunken Baker
Feb 3, 2015

VODKA STYLE DRINK

Inspector Gesicht posted:

Uplay:
*Wants to play that pirate game again.
*Realises that after installing game from disc Uplay will also download all 10 gigs of DLC game I don't want.

It's been said a million times before, but the same problem but with Doom. It takes up a monumental amount of hard drive space and most of it is Multiplayer guff I'll never touch. I always get this itch to just lash on some Doom and blast some hellspawn but fuuuuck downloading 100 gigs of nothing.

Also fuuuuck me. Any need for 4000 riddler challenges in Arkham Knight? Most of them being boring, "shoot this insignia with a tank" thing.

Only 40 more to go. :negative:

Inspector Gesicht
Oct 26, 2012

500 Zeus a body.


I loved Arkham City, even though the story is poo poo and the Catwoman levels suck, and I can't help but get all 443 trophies every time. I've never even touched the DLC, challenge rooms or NG+

Danaru
Jun 5, 2012

何 ??
I like a lot of Pathologic's jank, considering it's such an old weird game that it adds to the charm, but they really do NOT make it obvious when you receive a letter. I suddenly had the option to make Daniil sass the Olgimsky patriarch about how the Powers That Be want him to investigate the possible plague outbreak, and I was just like ":confused: That didn't happen though", turns out I missed three letters I'd somehow received during the previous day!

poptart_fairy
Apr 8, 2009

by R. Guyovich
The Knight challenges unlock the epilogue scene, but nothing that benefits game play. The final Riddler boss is kind of fun though.

Knight is fantastic but they went nuts on the amount of content.

Samuringa
Mar 27, 2017

Best advice I was ever given?

"Ticker, you'll be a lot happier once you stop caring about the opinions of a culture that is beneath you."

I learned my worth, learned the places and people that matter.

Opened my eyes.

Drunken Baker posted:

It's been said a million times before, but the same problem but with Doom. It takes up a monumental amount of hard drive space and most of it is Multiplayer guff I'll never touch. I always get this itch to just lash on some Doom and blast some hellspawn but fuuuuck downloading 100 gigs of nothing.

Also fuuuuck me. Any need for 4000 riddler challenges in Arkham Knight? Most of them being boring, "shoot this insignia with a tank" thing.

Only 40 more to go. :negative:

Doing everything just unlocks like, a 2 minutes long extra scene. I did the bare minimum to get the first ending then just youtubed the rest.

poptart_fairy
Apr 8, 2009

by R. Guyovich
The batmobile forever ruined other vehicles for me. Every game needs a single tap button that brings your vehicle directly to you, regardless of where it was before.

Aleph Null
Jun 10, 2008

You look very stressed
Tortured By Flan

poptart_fairy posted:

The batmobile forever ruined other vehicles for me. Every game needs a single tap button that brings your vehicle directly to you, regardless of where it was before.

This but IRL.

Samuringa
Mar 27, 2017

Best advice I was ever given?

"Ticker, you'll be a lot happier once you stop caring about the opinions of a culture that is beneath you."

I learned my worth, learned the places and people that matter.

Opened my eyes.

poptart_fairy posted:

The batmobile forever ruined other vehicles for me. Every game needs a single tap button that brings your vehicle directly to you, regardless of where it was before.

I absolutely adored the Batmobile and how it just wrecked everything in its way, it really felt like a tank

Yardbomb
Jul 11, 2011

What's with the eh... bretonnian dance, sir?

The Batmobile was fun in use for a while, but Knight just wore out it's welcome by packing so much of it in one game all of the sudden. I liked it enough to where I hope there's sections for it in the next game, but it's not pushed so hard as a main gameplay deal.

BioEnchanted
Aug 9, 2011

He plays for the dreamers that forgot how to dream, and the lovers that forgot how to love.
My main problem with the Rocksteady Batman games isn't the writing in the main plots, but the writing in the City Stories that you unlock - they are so unnecessarily violent, so much child murder that it completely fails to shock and just becomes boring. Some of them had funny parts too, then were marred by the excessive gore. It's like they were written by a 14 year old intern.

FactsAreUseless
Feb 16, 2011

BioEnchanted posted:

My main problem with the Rocksteady Batman games isn't the writing in the main plots, but the writing in the City Stories that you unlock - they are so unnecessarily violent, so much child murder that it completely fails to shock and just becomes boring. Some of them had funny parts too, then were marred by the excessive gore. It's like they were written by a 14 year old intern.
This is just what comics are like now, especially Batman.

Who What Now
Sep 10, 2006

by Azathoth

FactsAreUseless posted:

This is just what comics are like now, especially Batman.

People have forgotten that super heroes can be fun.

Kerbtree
Sep 8, 2008

BAD FALCON!
LAZY!

poptart_fairy posted:

The batmobile forever ruined other vehicles for me. Every game needs a single tap button that brings your vehicle directly to you, regardless of where it was before.

Mad Max has this for the Magnum Opus.

Drunken Baker
Feb 3, 2015

VODKA STYLE DRINK

Samuringa posted:

Doing everything just unlocks like, a 2 minutes long extra scene. I did the bare minimum to get the first ending then just youtubed the rest.

Oh yeah, I wasn't doing it to see the ending. I've just been working long, long shifts so I figured on my 3 hour downtime each night I could just chip away at some brainless scavenging but there WAS SO MUCH and I wasn't prepared for it. But, in for a penny, in for a pound so I got it all wrapped up last night.

Started new game + and sure enough, got to my first tank drone fight and stopped the game. It was a good run but I'm done with it now.

poptart_fairy
Apr 8, 2009

by R. Guyovich

BioEnchanted posted:

My main problem with the Rocksteady Batman games isn't the writing in the main plots, but the writing in the City Stories that you unlock - they are so unnecessarily violent, so much child murder that it completely fails to shock and just becomes boring. Some of them had funny parts too, then were marred by the excessive gore. It's like they were written by a 14 year old intern.

Yeah, that really jumped out. Similar with how everyone was calling catwoman a bitch, you could see they were struggling to use the higher rating to any meaningful degree.

The side stories in Knight are much better written, with much better restraint. The #CrusaderGate one was hysterical partly because a ton of people were incapable of seeing it as anything other than gamergate, but mostly because it's now canon that Riddler is routinely called a human being when he goes online. :v:

Randalor
Sep 4, 2011



BioEnchanted posted:

My main problem with the Rocksteady Batman games isn't the writing in the main plots, but the writing in the City Stories that you unlock - they are so unnecessarily violent, so much child murder that it completely fails to shock and just becomes boring. Some of them had funny parts too, then were marred by the excessive gore. It's like they were written by a 14 year old intern.

I remember back when Superman villain Toyman killed a child in the 90's, it was treated as shocking. Nowadays, that's barely a blip on the radar. "You killed one child? Only one? Not a school full of children or even a bus, but a singular child?"

Zanzibar Ham
Mar 17, 2009

You giving me the cold shoulder? How cruel.


Grimey Drawer
Remember when stealing 40 cakes was terrible?

Seventh Arrow
Jan 26, 2005

I remember when the Thief games first came out, they had to justify why the protagonist is a dude who steals. So they would say things in interviews that Garrett was only stealing from the nobility, and not just some hard-working industrialists - these were pampered elites who were actively oppressing the underclasses. But if Thief came out post-Saints Row, I doubt anyone would care.

RareAcumen
Dec 28, 2012




Seventh Arrow posted:

I remember when the Thief games first came out, they had to justify why the protagonist is a dude who steals. So they would say things in interviews that Garrett was only stealing from the nobility, and not just some hard-working industrialists - these were pampered elites who were actively oppressing the underclasses. But if Thief came out post-Saints Row, I doubt anyone would care.

Same. 'Why's he stealing stuff?' He's poor and you need money. 'Why's he going after the rich?' Who would you target when you're trying to get a lot of money? You gonna go rob the soup kitchen?

Danaru
Jun 5, 2012

何 ??
taking from the rich is a heroic action :ussr:

FactsAreUseless
Feb 16, 2011

It's cool that Thief, for the first time ever, depicted a hero who steals from the rich to give to the poor.

poptart_fairy
Apr 8, 2009

by R. Guyovich
*beats servant unconscious, steals war widow's inheritance*

He was a NEET before it was fashionable.

RareAcumen
Dec 28, 2012




Horizon Zero Dawn: I'm assuming this is common knowledge but at a point in the game you get the ability to hack robots so they're on your side and start attacking not-hacked robots and bandits.

But they don't give you a way to make them follow you. You hack them and they just go docile and back on their patrol.

Second complaint: The hand holds aren't signposted brightly enough and I keep missing them.

Zanzibar Ham
Mar 17, 2009

You giving me the cold shoulder? How cruel.


Grimey Drawer
Garret (the protagonist of the Thief Trilogy) steals from everyone and gives to himself (at least until he wastes it all away again because he's really bad with money).

Danaru
Jun 5, 2012

何 ??

Zanzibar Ham posted:

Garret (the protagonist of the Thief Trilogy) steals from everyone and gives to himself (at least until he wastes it all away again because he's really bad with money).

Do you have any idea how much a victorian-era steampunk cybernetic eye must cost to maintain?

mitochondritom
Oct 3, 2010

I've started playing the recent reboot of Thief (Thi4f , nu-thief etc) and this is not the case. You can pickpocket the pennies from the proles in the streets and there are many houses in the open world hubs where you can nick stuff to your hearts content, for instance a bookshop and a tailors.

Seventh Arrow
Jan 26, 2005

I didn't mind nu-thief as much as some did, but it comes from a completely different dev team and mindset as the originals.

spit on my clit
Jul 19, 2015

by Cyrano4747
xenoblade 2:

wow, i got this blade that gives massive damage buffs at 30% health, that'll be really helpful! except i'd pretty much need my healer to either not be in the party, or dead, for that to work. welp, better get more core crystals :suicide:

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poptart_fairy
Apr 8, 2009

by R. Guyovich

Zanzibar Ham posted:

Garret (the protagonist of the Thief Trilogy) steals from everyone and gives to himself (at least until he wastes it all away again because he's really bad with money).

Yeah, he's only a hero through necessity. Dude nicks stuff for a living. He isn't pumping that into re-education or housing projects.

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