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If a customer is buying a product for 80% off on AliExpress or from an eBay vendor in China, they're certainly aware of what they're getting. The BGG component complaints are just as likely from whichever friends unknowingly played the counterfeit game. Everyone is making the same problematic assumption the film industry does: that each pirated copy 1:1 represents a lost sale. It doesn't. Someone buying a $20 copy of Pandemic Legacy would likely never buy the $60 one. What I'm saying is that the industry should be reaching out to the $20-30 customers in addition to their $60-80 ones. Piracy is demonstrating that they exist, but are only being served by counterfeiters - there's no legitimate way to buy the big games at that price level. I realize more goes into developing a game than the cost of the components, just like I understand a music CD represents more than the dime's worth of plastic squished into a circle. Piracy fills a niche where consumers feel the price doesn't line up with the value, just like scalping exists when they feel it misaligns the opposite way. You'll never completely eliminate either, but you can minimize both by bringing the MSRP more in line with perceived value.
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Jan 10, 2018 13:16
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Kurieg posted:Also remember the MET rules that got spoiled where the Garou get a rite that lets them turn people with a Bite, but it has like a... 5% survival rate, and they're using it on all of their kinfolk in an idiotic and short sighted attempt to shore up their numbers. Doubly so because the people who survive are rendered sterile. I've interacted with Ethan Skemp a bit over on RPG.net. Seems like a nice guy. I like a lot of what he did for Revised, and wonder if he either does his level best to ignore what's being mentioned about the new stuff or just sighs a lot and keeps on walking down the road to the Incredible Hulk's ending TV theme.
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Jan 10, 2018 14:47
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moths posted:If a customer is buying a product for 80% off on AliExpress or from an eBay vendor in China, they're certainly aware of what they're getting. I have a co-worker who has minimized windows on her computer and been mystified by where they went. I strongly doubt you are correct, and people who use "certainly" and "surely" usually doubt the thing adjacent to those adverbs, so I think you doubt it too. Again, I encourage you to try it: take an expensive game and try to make it for $20. The more expensive the original game, the harder that will be. Even if you're imagining that that the $60 game company can use the same art (and if you're replacing molded components with standees, you can't), you still need people to design the cheaper components and the smaller box. These are very low-margin items and counterfeiters have to be careful or they'll lose money too.
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Jan 10, 2018 15:12
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homullus posted:I strongly doubt you are correct, and people who use "certainly" and "surely" usually doubt the thing adjacent to those adverbs, so I think you doubt it too. This is a function of forums culture. I've noticed that posting an absolute, definite statement is essentially a challenge for someone to post a contrary anecdote. So now it's all "certainly" and "most likely." I can't say it's impossible to order an 80% discounted game from China expecting it to be legit without getting derailed by an anecdote about someone's confused grandma finding AliExpress. homullus posted:Again, I encourage you to try it: take an expensive game and try to make it for $20. This isn't what I'm saying at all. Don't try to cheapen an existing game, start by designing a minimalist $20 game and then produce a lavish $60 version.
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Jan 10, 2018 15:23
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moths posted:This isn't what I'm saying at all. Don't try to cheapen an existing game, start by designing a minimalist $20 game and then produce a lavish $60 version. On top of which many of the games we've been talking about already have about as minimal components as they can for the design they use. Ticket to Ride doesn't throw in any extra premium bits. It's got little plastic trains and it's got two kinds of standard sized cards and it's got a board. You can make the material cost of the game cheaper only by lowering the quality of those components. As for designing games from the ground up that aren't at that price point - that's why things like Love Letter exist. And Resistance, and any of the other multitude of games in that range.
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Jan 10, 2018 16:27
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Werewolf has always struggled to balance between the two elements of "you're a holy warrior of the planet struggling to save Gaia from absolute evil" and "also you are a rage monster and your people have made almost every single problem you face worse". Struggling against the revanchist elements of your own culture is one of those things that's dramatically interesting and appropriate but also a lot of people find it tiresome because they do murderfurry roleplay to get away from that poo poo. Unlike Vampire, I don't think Werewolf ever found a happy medium.
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Jan 10, 2018 16:45
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Comrade Gorbash posted:That isn't what you've been saying at all. This entire time you've been talking about existing games using cheaper components, and you started by talking about games at $80. You've shifted the goal posts pretty far to make that claim. I'm talking about the industry going forward. As in, games that aren't yet produced or designed. The reason we have $80 games is that the industry has accepted as fact the idea that rulebooks need glossy pages with embedded art, premium components, miniatures, wooden parts, custom dice, etc. The ship's already sailed on games that are currently being pirated, but the problem won't go away until they rethink some very basic assumptions.
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Jan 10, 2018 16:52
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I just wish people would accept the idea that RPG books need to be $80.
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Jan 10, 2018 16:53
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Kurieg posted:All the changes that RPPR have issues with were pushed in by WWP. I wouldn't be surprised if OPP shies away from pushing out any more 20th anniversary books because of the bad optics.
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Jan 10, 2018 17:27
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Rand Brittain posted:Werewolf has always struggled to balance between the two elements of "you're a holy warrior of the planet struggling to save Gaia from absolute evil" and "also you are a rage monster and your people have made almost every single problem you face worse". Werewolf is very much a tonal mess. I've managed to forge a happy medium in my own head after decades of experience with the material and interpreting intent as best I can. Nominally, W:tA should be and, in my opinion, is robust enough to handle a variety of themes and tones, but the written material so often swings so hard one way or the other that it leaves a confused player base that devolves into "one true way" arguments left and right. Instead of reconciling all this, nuWW seems to want to put all their eggs into one tonal basket, which I suppose will be easier for a player base to grok, but ultimately makes the game weaker. Never mind the fact that what they're aiming for is dumb and edgelordy as gently caress.
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Jan 10, 2018 17:36
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Libertad! posted:Strangely I am not surprised that a White Wolf book has regressive views, but what the hell happened with Hagen? Did he go Full Fash, or is it more "I'd much rather live in a white ethnostate than a Cultural Marxist dictatorship" cryptosignalling? Either way's bad, but this sounds like a hell of a story behind it.
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Jan 10, 2018 17:49
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Which actual fascist?
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Jan 10, 2018 17:56
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Terrible Opinions posted:Which actual fascist? Oh, also Ayn Rand.
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Jan 10, 2018 18:43
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moths posted:This is a function of forums culture. I've noticed that posting an absolute, definite statement is essentially a challenge for someone to post a contrary anecdote. So now it's all "certainly" and "most likely." I can't say it's impossible to order an 80% discounted game from China expecting it to be legit without getting derailed by an anecdote about someone's confused grandma finding AliExpress. I mean you're also looking at the situation and going "clearly this means there's a huge untapped market for cheap minimalist board games, and glossy components are only the norm because Big Board Game has brainwashed people into thinking so." Again, people who deliberately buy knockoff goods aren't doing so because they yearn deep in their hearts for minimalist options that aren't being offered, they want the same poo poo as the expensive official version, they just don't want to pay the full price for it. There are tons of cheap purses you can buy at a big box store but somehow knockoff designer handbags keep getting made, and I assume that one purse works just as good as another. People buying counterfeit Games Workshop minis aren't simply making do with proxies, they still want the same figures. Even if companies started making two versions of the same game, a cheapy minimalist version and a glossy deluxe version, if counterfeiters are still going to continue making knockoff versions of the deluxe game for the same price as the minimalist game are you really solving the problem? Do board gamers specifically not care about components and construction quality to the point where they'd find an official el-cheapo version of a game an appealing buy out of some sort of convenience, or are they going to continue to want the glossy version but still as cheaply as they can possibly get it?
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Jan 10, 2018 20:02
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Also double posting to say that I actually went and looked into Love Letter since it got brought up as an example of a game with multiple price points and it seems like the original game came out in 2012 and the deluxe version either came out in 2016 or 2017, I can't quite pin down the exact publication date but there's a BGG thread from 2016 asking when it's coming out. What that suggests to me is that Love Letter getting two versions at two price points wasn't a calculated move right from the start so much as a result of the initial game's success and consequently Alderac moving to take as much advantage of that as possible, hence why you can also buy Batman Love Letter and The Hobbit: Battle of the Five Armies Love Letter, aka the Munchkin model. Straightaway deciding to publish multiple versions of the same game from the outset without even knowing if one version is likely to be successful seems like something of a risky venture.
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Jan 10, 2018 21:51
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Right, and I believe Hanabi followed suit with its later deluxe edition (though its success was much more guaranteed since it won a Spiel)
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Jan 10, 2018 21:53
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It might be much harder to tell if something online's a counterfeit if you're not in the US. Take Joking Hazard, which I bought for my brother for christmas. That was $60 in one store I looked in. I bought it new on ebay for $20 + $5 (local) shipping. If the one I bought is a counterfeit, then so is the one my friend bought in-store for $40, because they're totally identical. "It's less than half price, it should have been obvious!" doesn't really work when you're used to be ripped off by retailers so hard that online pricing usually looks like that.
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Jan 10, 2018 22:14
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Dawgstar posted:I've interacted with Ethan Skemp a bit over on RPG.net. Seems like a nice guy. I like a lot of what he did for Revised, and wonder if he either does his level best to ignore what's being mentioned about the new stuff or just sighs a lot and keeps on walking down the road to the Incredible Hulk's ending TV theme. I mean, he inherited Apocalypse from MR*H and Bridges, and was always dragging this baggage around. I imagine at this point he's just washing his hands of the whole affair. W:TF was their first stab at making something without the edgelord 90s nonsense, and unlike W:TA they can just say things are completely different in the later editions! Unihar? What are those? Shut up! Rand Brittain posted:Werewolf has always struggled to balance between the two elements of "you're a holy warrior of the planet struggling to save Gaia from absolute evil" and "also you are a rage monster and your people have made almost every single problem you face worse". 1st Edition W:TA was very much Vampire in Fursuits rather than Pinstripes. There was such a ludicrous amount of tribal infighting and everyone hated everyone else. Basically every single sample adventure in 1st ed is "Your group works together and actually accomplishes poo poo since the rest of the nation is too locked in a zero sum game to actually save the planet." Bosushi! posted:Werewolf is very much a tonal mess. I've managed to forge a happy medium in my own head after decades of experience with the material and interpreting intent as best I can. W:TA Did explore some tonally dissonant ground throughout the years, but I think a common problem in all of the books that hit in revised was trying to refocus them tonally. The Avatar storm was created because so many 2nd ed mage games were spent exploring astral realms where your magic does whatever the gently caress you want it to do rather than actually dealing with the ascension war. Werewolf has a rather extended plot arc where you travel around the Aetherial realm hobknobbing with planets for no real discernible reason beyond the fact that Rorg is a mover and shaker in 3 of the Apocalypse scenarios, which is more backfilling than anything else.
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Jan 10, 2018 22:15
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Kai Tave posted:I mean you're also looking at the situation and going "clearly this means there's a huge untapped market for cheap minimalist board games, and glossy components are only the norm because Big Board Game has brainwashed people into thinking so." No - Per the article, Pirates have looked at the situation and determined that there is a market for affordable board games with lesser quality components. Would they be bothering if it wasn't profitable? Then why not do exactly that in-house? Kai Tave posted:Even if companies started making two versions of the same game, a cheapy minimalist version and a glossy deluxe version, if counterfeiters are still going to continue making knockoff versions of the deluxe game for the same price as the minimalist game are you really solving the problem? Do board gamers specifically not care about components and construction quality to the point where they'd find an official el-cheapo version of a game an appealing buy out of some sort of convenience, or are they going to continue to want the glossy version but still as cheaply as they can possibly get it? We just don't know. Right now the only choice we have is between the glossy one and the knockoff one, and the fact that people are choosing the knockoff suggests that there absolutely is a market for a non-premium, "standard version." Kai Tave posted:Straightaway deciding to publish multiple versions of the same game from the outset without even knowing if one version is likely to be successful seems like something of a risky venture. It's near standard practice to release videogames in a "standard" and "collector's edition" format. I was using Love Letter as an example of that this works in practice for tabletop, I doubt the intent was to combat piracy by releasing a mass-market edition. Boardgaming is already beginning to dip into deluxe, collectors', and anniversary editions, but they're generally aimed at mass-market games which are already produced in affordable formats. I honestly don't know why this idea is generating so much push-back. From the perspective that $80-$100 high-end games are the leather-bound hardcover illustrated pop-up books of gaming, it's bizarre and confusing to be told "No, these stories simply cannot be told in paperback editions."
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Jan 10, 2018 22:21
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moths posted:No - Per the article, Pirates have looked at the situation and determined that there is a market for affordable board games with lesser quality components. Would they be bothering if it wasn't profitable? Then why not do exactly that in-house? Of course counterfeit versions are cheaper. It's been explained several times why a counterfeit version would be cheaper even if it was the same quality, and in fact most counterfeit versions are worse quality. We already know there's a market for cheaper "serious" board games, in the $20 and less range. That's why so many of them exist. It's far less clear that the board games in the next price tier ($30-$50) could be modified to fit into a lower one without fundamentally changing their design, and frankly I don't believe it to be the case for most of them. Some games in the premium $70 and up tier probably could get a wider audience and more sales with a budget version that still functions the same way, but not all of them, and those aren't the only games being counterfeited. The fact that there are a bunch of people who would buy a $40 game for $20 is a useless piece of information if it costs me $30 to make the drat thing - and yes I am including development and support costs because you have to. Also counterfeiting and piracy aren't the same thing, and conflating them is misleading and frankly demonstrates a poor grasp of the issue. If I pirate something, I'm invariably doing so intentionally, and the provider is making few bones about what they're offering. There's a liminal space in minis and card games where buyers are intentionally turning to counterfeiters to get access to rare or expensive items, often explicitly so they can pass them off in formal play. This is true of cards in particular, where there are plenty of even lower cost or free options for proxies that would let you play with cards you don't have in a friendly setting. But in board games, it's pretty clear that a significant number are not aware what they're buying isn't the real thing. Which means those customers are being defrauded, given an inferior and often incomplete product rather than the one they expected. Even if they're paying less for it, that's not what they've been lead to believe they're getting. Basically people are pushing back because you don't know what the gently caress you're talking about, and refuse to take even the most basic effort to educate yourself about it in any way, and you refuse to argue in good faith. Comrade Gorbash fucked around with this message at 22:53 on Jan 10, 2018 |
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Jan 10, 2018 22:49
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moths posted:No - Per the article, Pirates have looked at the situation and determined that there is a market for affordable board games with lesser quality components. Would they be bothering if it wasn't profitable? Then why not do exactly that in-house? Also per the article people who buy the cheap knockoffs then turn around and complain about how cheap and shoddy they are. This suggests that they aren't actually interested in "affordable board games with lesser quality components" so much as they're trying, either deliberately or accidentally, to get something as close in quality to the official version as possible but at a fraction of the cost. Like the entire business model of counterfeiting is selling you a "real gold Rolex" for $50. People don't want to actively seek out the cheap-and-lovely version, they want the deluxe version but for cheap. I remember reading discussions where people were comparison shopping different Chinese 40K recasters, going "hey I ordered this mini from this caster and the quality is really great, don't get it from this one though." Yeah, a lot of times the quality of the knockoffs IS poo poo, but people buy them because they want to luck into the "I can't believe it's not the real thing" version where they get a real sweet deal that's just as good as the full price one.
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Jan 10, 2018 23:33
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Kurieg posted:Also remember the MET rules that got spoiled where the Garou get a rite that lets them turn people with a Bite, but it has like a... 5% survival rate, and they're using it on all of their kinfolk in an idiotic and short sighted attempt to shore up their numbers. Doubly so because the people who survive are rendered sterile. I'm like 99% sure that this is By Night Studios not really talking to WWP or OPP and just getting incredibly high on their own farts. MET: Vampire's post-2003 history is also mostly dumb but not nearly as gross and apocalyptic since the toys they're playing with are different- certainly there's nothing as eye-rollingly bad as "also the Gangrel are down with Gaia now" from MET: Werewolf.
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Jan 10, 2018 23:52
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AlphaDog posted:It might be much harder to tell if something online's a counterfeit if you're not in the US. I feel like this attitude results in more of those sales than any sort of malicious intent or desire to get lower quality games at a lower price point. A lot of consumers are very well trained to shop for anything that says 'sale' or has a higher price crossed out, and especially when it comes to an online description/imageset (which can easily be wholly lifted from the real product) it can be impossible to reasonably expect someone to verify the product's legitimacy.
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Jan 10, 2018 23:54
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Darwinism posted:I feel like this attitude results in more of those sales than any sort of malicious intent or desire to get lower quality games at a lower price point. A lot of consumers are very well trained to shop for anything that says 'sale' or has a higher price crossed out, and especially when it comes to an online description/imageset (which can easily be wholly lifted from the real product) it can be impossible to reasonably expect someone to verify the product's legitimacy. Yeah, when I see something at a steep discount I usually assume "clearing stock" rather than counterfeit, unless it sets off red flags in some other way.
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Jan 11, 2018 01:24
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Kurieg posted:the MET book also says nothing about the fact that if the Garou Nation can suddenly do this, so can the loving black spiral dancers, and they have even less moral compunctions about using it. The Black Spiral Dancers already had rape prisons back in the original Book of the Wyrm. A fact I'd forgotten until this reminded me, but apparently I need more reasons to  at old-school World of Darkness.
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Jan 11, 2018 01:33
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Comrade Gorbash posted:You're getting push back because you keep shifting your goal posts, and you refuse to actually consider the push back. First it was $80 games, then it was $60 games, then talk about a $10-15 game with a $30-40 premium edition, and now it's $80-100 games again. You brought in a minis game at some point for some reason, then dropped that. Wow that's some unexpected hostility. There are a lot of moving parts here, and it looks like you're getting hung up on semantics and tangents. First, I'm using theoretical prices interchangeable because they're all standing in for "high end." I'm probably using pirates and counterfeiters interchangeably because the original article did. The article got a little sloppy with the distinction, I don't see how practical getting pissy about the distinction is here. Pirates are counterfeiting games? Whatever, it's entirely tangential to the discussion. What I do see is that customers are pursuing alternative paths to acquire "rare and expensive items." So here's a crazy loving idea: Why not offer a legitimate alternative from the manufacturer? What is preventing FFG or Asmodee would produce "cheap knockoffs" of their own games under a budget imprint? The value in a game is the gameplay experience, not the tchotkies. The high end games on the market are essentially collector's editions with no standard option.
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Jan 11, 2018 01:58
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moths posted:What I do see is that customers are pursuing alternative paths to acquire "rare and expensive items." So here's a crazy loving idea: Why not offer a legitimate alternative from the manufacturer? What is preventing FFG or Asmodee would produce "cheap knockoffs" of their own games under a budget imprint? The whole point of a counterfeit is that it is at least superficially identical to the real thing. “Asmodee only cheaper” would have to be noticeably inferior to make any business sense for Asmodee. The pirates save money by not having R&D or marketing expenses; “Asmodee only cheaper” can’t do that.
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Jan 11, 2018 02:12
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Off the top of my head, publishing two versions of a game means you have to double your manufacturing process, convince retailers to give a single game additional shelf space for a cheapo budget version of an identical game instead of using that space to stock something else, and now you've got multiple versions of the same game out there to confuse your less savvy customers with, and on top of that counterfeiters are still free to continue creating knockoffs of your deluxe game for low prices because, once again, the people buying counterfeit knockoffs want the fancy versions, they're just trying to get it for as low a price as they can get away with paying. Anecdotally, Isaac Childres offered two versions of Gloomhaven during the initial Kickstarter run, one with miniatures for the player pieces and a cheaper version using standees. For the Kickstarter for the second run the only version offered was the one with minis in it because, according to Childres, managing multiple simultaneous manufacturing runs for a single game is actually kind of a pain in the rear end and there weren't an overwhelming number of people clamoring for the standees version anyway.
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Jan 11, 2018 02:20
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In a way this whole thing about "well clearly there's an untapped market for people who don't want to pay full price for these games" reminds me of how these days you can find plenty of good, fun video games on Steam in the $30-40 price range, which is very reasonable for that sort of thing compared to even non-special editions of AAA console blockbuster releases which can be twice that price, and yet you still get tons of people looking at that and going "ehhhhhhh I'll wait until it's like 60% off during a sale." The devs who made Brigador had a big long thread full of people going "why are you selling this game for $30, you should sell it for $20, you'd get so many more people buying it if it was cheaper" even after explaining to them the cost in time and labor that went into creating the game and why $30 was actually a reasonable price point.
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Jan 11, 2018 02:27
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All this talk of cheapness really makes me miss the original Cheap rear end games. The company is still around, but they don't seem to put out the old bare bones white envelopes games so much anymore. I really wish there were more super cheap options in board gaming, just so I could at least grab something every time i go to my local gaming store. Most games seem to start at around thirty bucks, and that's just above my limit for impulse buys, so I usually end up just grabbing another thing of dice to show some support ( the shelf next to me has nearly ninety sets of Chessex dice, and that's maybe half or less of my collection ). I'd also probably buy more games on a whim without scouring reviews and watching lets plays if there were things like maybe a scaled down version of larger games with wooden tokens and such instead of fancy molded minis (which I love too), then if a game doesn't go over as well as i thought it would i might not feel as bad letting it gather dust on my shelf. As for art and such, i'm totally fine with companies reusing old art assets like Fantasy Flight, or whoever made Fluxx did with Loonacy.
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Jan 11, 2018 02:31
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moths posted:What I do see is that customers are pursuing alternative paths to acquire "rare and expensive items." So here's a crazy loving idea: Why not offer a legitimate alternative from the manufacturer? What is preventing FFG or Asmodee would produce "cheap knockoffs" of their own games under a budget imprint? You are being terribly obtuse about the nature of production in a capitalist system. All other things being equal, if the manufacturer could reduce their production costs and increase sales, they would. The 'deluxe' bits for most games are a relatively small cost. Certainly not the 33% required to drop from say $30 to $20 retail, and that's ignoring all the costs associated with running production and shipping for two separate skus.
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Jan 11, 2018 02:41
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WaywardWoodwose posted:All this talk of cheapness really makes me miss the original Cheap rear end games. The company is still around, but they don't seem to put out the old bare bones white envelopes games so much anymore. Yeah, those were great. I have really good memories of Before I Kill You, Mr. Bond.
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Jan 11, 2018 03:01
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AlphaDog posted:Yeah, those were great. I have really good memories of Before I Kill You, Mr. Bond.  I only played Doctor Lucky, myself, and while it was fun at the time I'm given to understand that the recent artsy updated version clears up some of the wonky issues.
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Jan 11, 2018 03:07
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http://cheapass.com/free-games/light-speed/ is the best thing they did I think - it's the best filler I own especially with laser line tools for wargaming, and it's 5 minutes a game. And now free print and play!
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Jan 11, 2018 03:29
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NGDBSS posted:You mean James Ernest's Totally Renamed Spy Game? I actually got to talk to James Ernest at a convention last year, he was doing classes on game design at ETX over in Tacoma, WA.
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Jan 11, 2018 03:33
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Kai Tave posted:In a way this whole thing about "well clearly there's an untapped market for people who don't want to pay full price for these games" reminds me of how these days you can find plenty of good, fun video games on Steam in the $30-40 price range, which is very reasonable for that sort of thing compared to even non-special editions of AAA console blockbuster releases which can be twice that price, and yet you still get tons of people looking at that and going "ehhhhhhh I'll wait until it's like 60% off during a sale." The devs who made Brigador had a big long thread full of people going "why are you selling this game for $30, you should sell it for $20, you'd get so many more people buying it if it was cheaper" even after explaining to them the cost in time and labor that went into creating the game and why $30 was actually a reasonable price point. I still remember the people who went all the entire way out of their drat minds when Skull Labs wanted half a million to animate a single fighting game character. And people who worked for AAA fighting game studios were like, "Huh, that's pretty cheap, actually." This led to the classic Twitter exchange where Skull Labs was chided for being in the 'fighting game business, not the rent-paying business.'
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Jan 11, 2018 03:42
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xiw posted:http://cheapass.com/free-games/light-speed/ is the best thing they did I think - it's the best filler I own especially with laser line tools for wargaming, and it's 5 minutes a game. I seriously can't wait for the new version of button men. This is the direction i'd like cheaper pricepoint games to go though i know it's not really feasible what with manufacturing and markets and what not ( also there has to be like a decade between these releases). I already own two different versions of this game but I'm still gonna grab this new one, because the presentation is new. http://www.drivethrucards.com/product/121277/Button-Men-BROM
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Jan 11, 2018 03:44
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moths posted:What I do see is that customers are pursuing alternative paths to acquire "rare and expensive items." So here's a crazy loving idea: Why not offer a legitimate alternative from the manufacturer? What is preventing FFG or Asmodee would produce "cheap knockoffs" of their own games under a budget imprint? The idea that using some cheaper components are going to take a game from $40 to $20 is a fantasy, and one that can only be sustained by not bothering to learn the first thing about manufacturing, and especially board game production. The hostility is because this has been explained to you in every response made to your posts, but you haven't actually engaged with that, and just regurgitated your uninformed "but what if they made it cheaper" non-argument each time. EDIT: And more so because uninformed arguments like that contribute directly to creators getting shafted in the market, because it creates a completely unrealistic expectation that impacts independent designers most. Comrade Gorbash fucked around with this message at 04:18 on Jan 11, 2018 |
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Jan 11, 2018 04:12
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Thinking of knockoffs, every time i get near the Games Workshop section of my game store i always hear gamers saying stuff like "you can get that fancy brush for literally a dollar at the dollar store, it's just a silicone basting brush" or "You can get that GW branded glue/ superglue/ greenstuff/ ect a million times cheaper at walmart, or any hardware store.", has any game store just put this non branded stuff on a shelf near by?
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Jan 11, 2018 04:21
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Also, and I can't stress this enough, creating a 'cheap' version and an 'expensive' version of your game seriously devalues one version or the other in the eyes of the majority of your customers because those products will not be a perfect mirror image of price vs quality. "You might as well get the [x] version because of [y]"WaywardWoodwose posted:Thinking of knockoffs, every time i get near the Games Workshop section of my game store i always hear gamers saying stuff like "you can get that fancy brush for literally a dollar at the dollar store, it's just a silicone basting brush" or "You can get that GW branded glue/ superglue/ greenstuff/ ect a million times cheaper at walmart, or any hardware store.", has any game store just put this non branded stuff on a shelf near by? A game store isn't going to be able to stock the kind of really cheap stuff you'd see at blick's or walmart necessarily, but we put the other companies (considerably cheaper) products in the same area and keep a minimum of the GW stuff in stock for the few people who really want it. S.J. fucked around with this message at 04:46 on Jan 11, 2018 |
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Jan 11, 2018 04:44
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