|
Just because this is still the topic of discussion: I find it hard to swallow that somebody who's most recent videos include analyses of the cryptofascism of Watchmen and defenses of movements in Star Wars fiction away from bloodline-based hero worship and mythologization is actually an advocate of eugenics and fascism rather than just saying stupid shut he's not thinking through and then getting defensive about it when called out. That being said, just saying it is enough of a major problem that I'll make it a point not to bring him up ITT again. In already unsubbed his channel, I only mention him this week because I liked the BvS series.
|
#
?
Jan 10, 2018 15:27
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 25, 2024 10:29 |
|
|
Darth Walrus posted:Libertarianism’s heavy reliance on market competition makes it, perversely, authoritarian and anti-democratic - you’re basically saying that people should be allowed to make all the money they can through whatever means they can, which naturally results in a concentration of power (wealth) around a chosen elite (because making money makes it easier to make money, creating an unstable equilibrium where the first person to win big will keep winning bigger, and will have more tools to suppress everyone else). Democracy is based on people operating on a reasonably level playing field, with reasonably equal political influence - as innumerable examples have demonstrated, government according to the will of the people only works when you don’t have any one actor with enough accumulated power to shape the will of the people. It's probably worth adding to this that this is the more specifically the form of libertarianism popular in America. The defining aspect of libertarianism is the personal autonomy and anti-state power stuff, and in the states it primarily manifests in neoliberalism and anarcho-capitalism. Trojan Kaiju fucked around with this message at 15:31 on Jan 10, 2018 |
|
#
?
Jan 10, 2018 15:28
|
|
|
Serf posted:lmao that bob thinks the illuminati are intellectuals It's because IN MARVEL the 'Illuminati' are guys like Stark, Richards, Strange, and Professor X! Oh my god he literally DOES filter every view he has through pop culture!
|
|
#
?
Jan 10, 2018 15:54
|
|
|
Kim Justice posted:One of those theories that just end up rather impractical then, pretty much. Mind you, most of us would probably be libertarian if we took our political compass results at face value (seeing as those bloody things are weirdly skewered in such a way that virtually everyone who takes them ends up in the "left libertarian" quadrant). It's weird in general. Especially when nowadays if you asked people to name the first Libertarian that came to mind you'd probably end up with a fictional character as the top answer (Ron Swanson) as opposed to, say, Ayn Rand or whoever. Yeah, sorta, although I’d say that it’s less a case of a well-intentioned idea that turned out to mesh poorly with reality and more of an excuse for assholes to be assholes that ended up sounding superficially reasonable to decent but uninformed people. The way that right-libertarian philosophers go on about the virtue of selfishness is really creepy. Trojan Kaiju posted:It's probably worth adding to this that this is the more specifically the form of libertarianism popular in America. The defining aspect of libertarianism is the personal autonomy and anti-state power stuff, and in the states it primarily manifests in neoliberalism and anarcho-capitalism. Well, right-libertarianism does exist on both sides of the pond (Jacob Rees-Mogg, a front-runner for next leader of the British Conservative Party, speaks the language fluently, and there’s no greater argument for the philosophy’s inherent elitism than to see a landed aristocrat using it to argue that he should pay less taxes), and it dates back all the way past the Victorian era, but yes, it is true that left-libertarianism is a thing as well in Europe. Basically, it’s people reading Marx, seeing that his vision of the ideal communist end-state is a collectivist anarchist utopia, and going ‘hold on a second, wouldn’t increasing the power of the state to bring this about be kind of missing the point?’. I’m not one myself - anarchism has obvious issues that it’s adherents haven’t addressed well enough for my tastes - but left-libertarianism has introduced some really useful political concepts, like ‘state capitalism’, where a state government behaves like an abusive corporate monopoly.
|
|
#
?
Jan 10, 2018 16:01
|
|
|
Kim Justice posted:I don't exactly like the thought that Bob is too dumb to recognise the implications of what he says... Yes. I was about to post pretty much the same. In this day and age of easy access to information-- not to mention easy access to discuss your ideas and get feedback on them-- I have absolutely ZERO tolerance anymore for people who consistently have "accidentally" dumb opinions. Making mistakes-- sure, everyone does that. Saying something without having all the right info-- of course, everyone does that too. But not learning from the mistake, or not filling in the gaps in your knowledge with even a basic Googling / Wikipediaing (the absolute bare minimum)? Nope. Not acceptable in today's society. You can't claim thirst when you live in a house with freely-available, clean running water 24/7.
|
|
#
?
Jan 10, 2018 16:09
|
|
|
I thought left-libertarianism was anarcho-syndacalism.
|
|
#
?
Jan 10, 2018 16:09
|
|
|
sexpig by night posted:It's because IN MARVEL the 'Illuminati' are guys like Stark, Richards, Strange, and Professor X! Oh my god he literally DOES filter every view he has through pop culture! which is even more sad, given that those characters are terrible idols
|
|
#
?
Jan 10, 2018 16:11
|
|
|
Serf posted:which is even more sad, given that those characters are terrible idols the post secret-war story literally ends with them agreeing 'yep we're bad at this'!
|
|
#
?
Jan 10, 2018 16:27
|
|
|
Wheat Loaf posted:I thought left-libertarianism was anarcho-syndacalism. Well, yeah, that’s basically people putting the theory I mentioned into practice (or, at least, into more concrete, directed theory). Marx and his contemporaries had a significant impact on anarchist thought.
|
|
#
?
Jan 10, 2018 16:33
|
|
|
I see. I studied all that stuff in university but largely lost interest after I graduated (found new hobbies other than politics etc.), so it's interesting to go back and look at it again from time to time.
|
|
#
?
Jan 10, 2018 16:40
|
|
|
CharlestheHammer posted:Eh the difference between a man who is knowingly fascist and one who is accidentally one is more academic than practical. To quote a line from Batman v Superman, the worst movie ever created since The Birth of a Nation: "Ignorance is not the same as innocence." You don't stumble into nazi rhetoric when you're as old as Bob. If you're an idiot teenager with no world experience, sure, because you're an idiot teenager. When you get called out on something like that and you have to ask yourself "Why are people calling me a nazi, I'm not a nazi!" then maybe an introspective look is in order then maybe not outright dismissing your critics focusing on your twitter poo poo rather than the content you produce. A lot of people are angry with how things are going. We're a year removed from the primaries and the Hillary cult are still telling leftist women they're doing what they're doing just to get the boys rather than actually believing in, you know, socialism and all that stuff you heard in Bernie's stump speech. Then they turn around and call the left (especially Bernie followers) sexist. But like those people, Bob's frustration is misguided and he's attacking the wrong people and focusing on the wrong issues.
|
|
#
?
Jan 10, 2018 16:40
|
|
|
Darth Walrus posted:
Wheat Loaf posted:I thought left-libertarianism was anarcho-syndacalism. The term libertarian was coined by French Anarchist Joseph Déjacque in 1858 when he launched the newspaper Le Libertaire. Libertarianism became another name for anarchism with Libertarian communism being another term that popped up in Spain in the 1930's. The association of Libertarian with a weird pro market fanatic occurred in Murica  in the seventies. There's a quote by Rothbard gloating about how now his crew have managed to nick the name they'll take off, and he wasn't entirely wrong. In Europe the word Libertarian is still heavily associated with anarchism and libertarian communism so you get fun stories of American right wing Libt's seeing a big international conference or something and getting tickets. Only to be horrified that everyone else is talking about the dangers of capital and preparations for a strike etc. Before they get kicked out for causing a scene.My personal favourite was when one American libt hung out with some Greek anarchists. https://np.reddit.com/r/Anarcho_Capitalism/comments/3ucp8y/i_was_beat_up_by_left_anarchists_in_greece/
|
|
#
?
Jan 10, 2018 16:42
|
|
|
Kim Justice posted:The man actively wishes for LESS Democracy and for some "elites" to be in charge of everything. Bob would happily vote for the state to have maximum power over people's lives so long as they were doing things he agreed with because he flat out doesn't trust people - he thinks they're subhuman. I don't see how he's a Libertarian in any way, if anything he's clearly a heavy authoritarian. Sorry didn't mean to make it about you. I was just hoping you had come over to our side  comrade.
|
|
#
?
Jan 10, 2018 16:51
|
|
|
Baka-nin posted:My personal favourite was when one American libt hung out with some Greek anarchists. https://np.reddit.com/r/Anarcho_Capitalism/comments/3ucp8y/i_was_beat_up_by_left_anarchists_in_greece/ Ha. You just know this guy is an advocate of Soverign Citizenship or some equally stupid crap.
|
|
#
?
Jan 10, 2018 16:55
|
|
|
Bob just wants a woke dictator
|
|
#
?
Jan 10, 2018 17:00
|
|
|
I think most people would like a dictator provided said dictator is on "their" side, though that might just be very cynical of me.
|
|
#
?
Jan 10, 2018 17:07
|
|
|
Wheat Loaf posted:I think most people would like a dictator provided said dictator is on "their" side, though that might just be very cynical of me. I dunno, there’s an obvious disadvantage in that it’s a system with a single point of failure. If this one guy who runs everything is no longer capable of running everything, you’re boned.
|
|
#
?
Jan 10, 2018 17:12
|
|
|
...I just wanted to talk about his star wars video I posted but okay.
|
|
#
?
Jan 10, 2018 17:17
|
|
|
Talk about it then, don't whine about people discussing it
|
|
#
?
Jan 10, 2018 17:19
|
|
|
Darth Walrus posted:I dunno, there’s an obvious disadvantage in that it’s a system with a single point of failure. If this one guy who runs everything is no longer capable of running everything, you’re boned. Politicians in democracies end up with all these cults of personality around them anyway. People project so much onto politicians and it's disturbing to me. Nobody has all the answers and nobody can solve every problem, but we want to believe there is: X will win the election and fix everything.
|
|
#
?
Jan 10, 2018 17:22
|
|
|
A Gnarlacious Bro posted:Talk about it then, don't whine about people discussing it You're discussing Bob not the video, so bite me. Also I'd rather talk about hippie space wizards than another screed about a dumbass fascist. Anytime anyone remotely controversial comes up, Kim or some other idiot throws a tantrum and we get pages of derailing arguments. I try to talk about actual videos and their content to hopefully steer other people back to a discussion that isn't toxic and hate filled, but this thread does not make it easy. I think he has a good point a out a lot of people's somewhat misguided issues with Luke's presentation in Last Jedi. The king Arthur analogy is something I hadn't picked up on at first but it does fit pretty well, down to the point that Luke doesn't actually return from the island, but still "returns" at the darkest hour to bring the galaxy/England into its golden age. Arc Hammer fucked around with this message at 17:37 on Jan 10, 2018 |
|
#
?
Jan 10, 2018 17:29
|
|
|
If you didn't want a screed about dumbass fascists, why bring up Star Wars, the series about dumbass fascists fighting each other.
|
|
#
?
Jan 10, 2018 18:12
|
|
|
youtube is the facism of videos, think about it
|
|
#
?
Jan 10, 2018 18:17
|
|
|
Wheat Loaf posted:Politicians in democracies end up with all these cults of personality around them anyway. People project so much onto politicians and it's disturbing to me. Nobody has all the answers and nobody can solve every problem, but we want to believe there is: X will win the election and fix everything. The problem is that a government is such an unfathomably complicated thing that it’s very difficult for the average person (meaning someone without a lot of training in politics and law) to comprehend it. Faced with this kind of complexity, it’s human instinct to look for a single point that one does understand and focus on it, thinking “If X happens, everything will be perfect, but if Y happens instead, it’s the end of the world!” Charismatic politicians often serve as that single point of understanding because they allow you to put a face on the otherwise faceless and soulless bureaucratic machine that actually runs things. In other words, the concept of a benevolent dictator is so attractive because it’s simple, at least in theory. One person giving orders and everyone else obeying, with no left-hand-vs-right-hand nonsense getting in the way. This is why so many fantasy stories feature a “good king” (or queen) who rules wisely and so everyone is happy until some evil usurper comes along and dethrones them, instantly throwing the land into ruin. Of course in reality the existence of such a person is just as much a fantasy as the magic and dragons and so on.
|
|
#
?
Jan 10, 2018 18:17
|
|
|
Arcsquad12 posted:...I just wanted to talk about his star wars video I posted but okay. I kind of agreed with Bob's take on Luke Skywalker's direction in TLJ?
|
|
#
?
Jan 10, 2018 18:19
|
|
|
The funniest and most out of touch thing Bob ever did was his pitch for a Terminator reboot (that he now considers turning into a novel) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EEJMDet82Hk
|
|
#
?
Jan 10, 2018 18:55
|
|
|
Ha ha I like that one of the comments isquote:So is the central premise of every single movie pitch you make gonna be "The jocks who bullied me in high school are the villains"?
|
|
#
?
Jan 10, 2018 19:11
|
|
|
Serf posted:which is even more sad, given that those characters are terrible idols Fictional characters are terrible choices to model oneself after, generally speaking, which could explain why there's so many web personalities with ideas leading in troubling directions. A B plot of Christmas dinner was seeing the second generation of that - a young relative of mine who aspires to be a Let's Player and has difficulties with social interaction feels the need to express himself like a web personality. I realize kids have all sorts of random and unrealistic career goals as part of growing up, but I wish there was an easy reality check for this without him having to learn firsthand, not to mention the fun of the "so your favorite YouTuber just started talking about politics" talk.
|
|
#
?
Jan 10, 2018 19:12
|
|
|
bessantj posted:Ha ha I like that one of the comments is 
|
|
#
?
Jan 10, 2018 19:19
|
|
|
sexpig by night posted:It's because IN MARVEL the 'Illuminati' are guys like Stark, Richards, Strange, and Professor X! Oh my god he literally DOES filter every view he has through pop culture! Someone should tell him the Illuminati were founded by some crazy people in Bavaria, just to watch his reaction
|
|
#
?
Jan 10, 2018 20:12
|
|
|
Moatman posted:No he spends the entire time like 10 minutes from society with his camera crew and production team When he's not doing evil poo poo for his lovely pedo enabling government. Big Hubris fucked around with this message at 20:40 on Jan 10, 2018 |
|
#
?
Jan 10, 2018 20:36
|
|
|
Terrible Opinions posted:Yeah his views are that the "elites" should be in charge, which for some reason just so happens to mean "people who are rich right now". The man thinks California techlords are a good thing and hates the idea of labor protections or unions influences politics. He is is full on yearning for the company towns of old. It comes up basically any time he talks about Objectivism "I'd like this if not for people I identify as jocks also liking it". You don't want me on your team. Politics is so ridiculous now that I base my position on whichever side has the better memes. (In seriousness, I mean I'm probably on the right of this thread full of ultra-crazed tankie communists - I kid - but on the left of like, everywhere else. I'm also in general just not as political as most of you and there's a lot of people I follow just for the inevitable shitfires they cause. A certain few do actively piss me off though and hey, Bob's one of them because people still consider this prick to be on the good side, the "social justice" side and the like...gently caress that noise) quote:You're discussing Bob not the video, so bite me. Also I'd rather talk about hippie space wizards than another screed about a dumbass fascist. Anytime anyone remotely controversial comes up, Kim or some other idiot throws a tantrum and we get pages of derailing arguments. I try to talk about actual videos and their content to hopefully steer other people back to a discussion that isn't toxic and hate filled, but this thread does not make it easy. But the video is *by* Bob. It's what happens in this thread. I mostly try to talk about actual videos all the time too - I try introducing video-related topics all the time, some of which get reception and some of them don't. You can't blame people like me for wanting to discuss the bullshit surrounding him more than they want to discuss his views on a movie that's ancient now and we've already been through. On balance, I'd wager there's waaayyyyyyy way more pages of us discussing Zack Snyder and his films than there is of us discussing the political views of critics.
|
|
#
?
Jan 10, 2018 20:54
|
|
|
Moviebobs voice is really repulsive. I can’t stand it.
|
|
#
?
Jan 10, 2018 20:57
|
|
|
But that's all you do Kim, and you and the others who argue against you are goddamn insufferable and I don't blame any of the video makers who used to post here for skipping off because this thread turns to poo poo any time you lose your temper. So I'm going to do what you always claim you're going to do, and take some time off from this cesspit.
|
|
#
?
Jan 10, 2018 21:06
|
|
|
I don't think there's any argument, everybody seems to agree that MovieBob is a jerk.
|
|
#
?
Jan 10, 2018 21:16
|
|
|
Terrible Opinions posted:It's because moviebob thinks any and all FPSs are terrible evil tools of the jocks to intrude on his precious nerds only zone. It is an identical but target shifted version of nerds getting mad that women are playing video games. Bob hating FPS games is sort amusingly ironic when you consider that his favorite game is Super Mario Bros. 3. Max Wilco fucked around with this message at 21:25 on Jan 10, 2018 |
|
#
?
Jan 10, 2018 21:21
|
|
|
SleepCousinDeath posted:I don't think there's any argument, everybody seems to agree that MovieBob is a jerk.
|
|
#
?
Jan 10, 2018 21:24
|
|
|
Max Wilco posted:Bob hating FPS games is sort amusingly ironic when you consider that his favorite game is Super Mario Bros. 3. was SMB3 an FPS I do not remember this part
|
|
#
?
Jan 10, 2018 21:28
|
|
|
K. Waste posted:New Spoiler Alert is up y'all https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1QpxrfQbYug Really like this guy and his YouTube's
|
|
#
?
Jan 10, 2018 21:31
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 25, 2024 10:29 |
|
|
Junpei Hyde posted:was SMB3 an FPS I do not remember this part Back before they did Wolfenstein and Doom, iD Software used to make platformer games like Commander Keen. Those games were impressive because scrolling screen were common on console, but not really viable for PC. A lot of the iD software guys used to work at a company called Softdisk, and at the time they were working there, Mario 3 came out. They got the idea to make a PC port of it, and tried submitting a demo to Nintendo. it was rejected, but it prompted iD guy to try and make their own side-scroller Here's a video of the demo, Dangerous Dave in Copyright Infringement: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cj4HJkeQSg0 It's ironic to me because Bob hates FPS games, but Mario 3 was one of the catalysts for iD Software, and gave them the early success to go on and make games like Wolf3D and Doom, which gave birth to the genre. The book Masters of Doom goes into more detail.
|
|
#
?
Jan 10, 2018 21:39
|
|