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Desiden posted:Is nuWW popular anywhere? I'm pretty far out of the loop these days, but among RL friends who might be nostalgic for those things, it was a blip for like 30 seconds on people's radars, and nothing since then. I'm pretty sure they're not aware of either the trash phone game or the playtest. Nowhere online where people would normally drub up interest for RPGs do I see anyone talking favorably about it, or really talking about it much at all. Is it even gaining momentum among the Eurolarp crowd that its supposedly going to cater to? There's a significant oWOD holdout in my city (Brazil) and they are looking forward to nuWW.
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Jan 12, 2018 03:09
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All that I know about nuWW is from reading this thread, or it being mentioned very occasionally on Ask Ken and Robin.
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Jan 12, 2018 03:23
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Lord_Hambrose posted:All that I know about nuWW is from reading this thread, or it being mentioned very occasionally on Ask Ken and Robin. It's somewhat disappointing to me that Hite is apparently good buddies with... well, why bring his name up in polite company.
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Jan 12, 2018 03:55
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Every time I see some new idiocy out of NWW, I just sigh at this point. It's good to be reminded that many people are stuck in the worst part of the game - reminds me to be more careful with the content policy at the university club I help run - but it's still dismal to see a brand and setting I really, really, really loved being dragged back into its ugliest, shittiest, most poorly considered era. I've never given that much of a poo poo about other settings, except maybe Fallout. DnD? Always homebrew settings - more fun for my group, with one Ravenloft campaign as the exception. FATE? Same deal. But I jump at the chance to play VtM. Or rather, used to - not so much these days. It makes me sad.
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Jan 12, 2018 04:19
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Kurieg posted:that's where the NOLA videos get posted. I made the mistake of looking at the comments on the Q&A video and it's exactly as terrible as you can imagine.
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Jan 12, 2018 04:24
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Slimnoid posted:I made the mistake of looking at the comments on the Q&A video and it's exactly as terrible as you can imagine. Yeah, me too. For some reason I expected people to be critical of it. I was disappointed.
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Jan 12, 2018 04:25
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Xinder posted:Yeah, me too. For some reason I expected people to be critical of it. I was disappointed. I was expecting the usual range of "hurrr SJWs how dare they ask questions" since nuWW has been attracting the terrible knuckle-draggers aspect of the fanbase since day 1. Just, not to the exclusion of any and all commentary about the future of the game line and what to expect. On the positive side the video has less than 4k views so lol no one cares that much about oWoD coming back I guess.
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Jan 12, 2018 04:28
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Reading that CCP/MMO article, like...what was a WoD MMO ever even going to look like in the first place?
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Jan 12, 2018 06:51
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Night10194 posted:Reading that CCP/MMO article, like...what was a WoD MMO ever even going to look like in the first place? Well, The Secret World managed somehow.
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Jan 12, 2018 06:58
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Night10194 posted:Reading that CCP/MMO article, like...what was a WoD MMO ever even going to look like in the first place? They never figured that out. At some point after the buyout CCP realized they didn't know how to do anything but EVE and development just kind of flopped around like a dying fish until they finally pulled the plug.
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Jan 12, 2018 07:01
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Foglet posted:Well, The Secret World managed somehow. Pretty much. Beyond that it's just a question of making the "City" both the guild and the territory you fight over. So you have your players take part in the social part of a guild, you have 'officers' with more authority to give out "feeding grounds" [Which are just resource nodes for your blood points, not like a zillion games don't have those] or money or whatever, but you also have the equivalent of guild civil wars if people don't want to quietly hand over power. Not exactly the most challenging thing in the world to do. To do well, oh no doubt it'd be a nightmare and require some really great game design. To ship, to make a product and start charging for it? Christ there are a ton of basic mechanics they could just steal from Eve, it's not like they have to reinvent the wheel. It's not hard to launch a lovely project and start charging people for it. Or, evidently, I guess it is.
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Jan 12, 2018 07:15
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I usually really dislike stone soup settings (eg Numenara, or even the video game Evil Within if we're talking horror), but WoD (or at least nWoD / OPP) has a very good handle on tonal consistency and (usually) a strong thematic element not just in how it's presented but designed. And the idea of a world chockablock with all sorts of weird poo poo that you'll probably only catch a glimpse of is something that X-Files prepared a lot of people for.
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Jan 12, 2018 07:50
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I think the issue is that they never really figured out what they wanted the players to do in the game. You need to have at least some idea of what players are going to do to progress, and then what they do once they're stronger. TSW Stole from every other MMO, you grind mobs, do quests, get stronger, do dungeons, do raids. EVE doesn't have those things. But the problem becomes if you're trying to put vampires, werewolves, and mages into a single gamespace then the Werewolf players are going to want WoW, the Vampire players are going to want EVE. and the Mage players are going to be doing both. Still paradox has supremely screwed the pooch on this one. Announcing the werewolf game before actual code in database development has happened screamed of "No no! see! We're doing something with the license!" advertising.
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Jan 12, 2018 08:00
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How hard is this for someone to sell a game to developers that is 'Skyrim, except it's New York instead of Skyrim and it's Vampires instead of Dragonborn and 90's nostalgia instead of magic.'? Like that's it, I'd buy that. Kavak posted:They never figured that out. At some point after the buyout CCP realized they didn't know how to do anything but EVE and development just kind of flopped around like a dying fish until they finally pulled the plug. This is... unfortunately, a very good question and one that I think was never adequately addressed. The dream was always an emergent gameplay vampire sim where people would compete for both concrete and soft gains, and a political model would emerge from the chaos as both the primary motivation to play and the secondary reward system. I'd love to say it was too conceptual to work in reality, and it may very well be true, but the reality is we'll never know because they never even got that far. Mendrian fucked around with this message at 09:48 on Jan 12, 2018 |
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Jan 12, 2018 09:46
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Another thing I remember from the post-mortem article is that the WoD MMO staff was constantly losing people to EVE. Nothing could coalesce because they could never keep people long enough to work on goddamn anything.
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Jan 12, 2018 10:05
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Wasn't the asinine "walking around in stations, doing nothing" stuff they added to EVE that nobody cared about the tech they developed for WoD? Based on how badly that ran for a lot of people it didn't bode well for the MMO they thought they were developing.
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Jan 12, 2018 13:15
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Dawgstar posted:It's somewhat disappointing to me that Hite is apparently good buddies with... well, why bring his name up in polite company. As far as i can tell, Hite is super professional and appears to be good friends with literally anyone who interacts with him in public. I can imagine that a certain brooding narcissist would take that courtesy as friendship, but I have the impression it's far more one sided than it seems.
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Jan 12, 2018 14:29
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moths posted:As far as i can tell, Hite is super professional and appears to be good friends with literally anyone who interacts with him in public. I can attest to this; the man is immensely personable.
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Jan 12, 2018 14:37
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Yeah, I wouldn't read that much into that, Ken Hite is a good designer, an adult and a professional. He's pretty much the only reason why I still keep one eye on what's going on in nuWW.
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Jan 12, 2018 14:38
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Night10194 posted:Reading that CCP/MMO article, like...what was a WoD MMO ever even going to look like in the first place?
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Jan 12, 2018 14:56
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Kurieg posted:and the Mage players are going to
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Jan 12, 2018 15:09
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This is what the MMO looked like and it never really got beyond this. https://imgur.com/a/UXN81 I really think companies are making the wrong choice focusing on vampire for an MMO. Werewolf would be much better because it has actual monster mobs and lends itself well to instances and raids. HITE CHAT Hite is a professional and is very personable when he needs to be. He doesn't really throw shade at anyone specific in the industry because it's a bad idea and incredibly unprofessional for a freelancer to do that. That being said, he mostly seems to have been brought on to nuWW because Swede Dracula was making GBS threads the bed with development and they needed someone to fix things. He was until then a full time freelancer who only worked in the game industry so the prospect of regular, contracted employment to a company that conceivably has money is very understandable.
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Jan 12, 2018 15:11
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RocknRollaAyatollah posted:This is what the MMO looked like and it never really got beyond this. https://imgur.com/a/UXN81 For some reason the "Press E to Seduce" thing in some of those screenshots just loving slays me.
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Jan 12, 2018 15:46
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Hattie Masters posted:For some reason the "Press E to Seduce" thing in some of those screenshots just loving slays me. I mean, how do you do it?
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Jan 12, 2018 16:13
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Press D, or V, depending on how my bindings are set up.
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Jan 12, 2018 16:15
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Barbed Tongues posted:I mean, how do you do it? According to the penultimate screenshot- by pointing at people's chests, which makes their hearts glow through their skin. Just like in real life. I guess.
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Jan 12, 2018 16:50
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I'm not like those other guys. I press F to pay respect.
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Jan 12, 2018 17:29
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I mean there's nothing inherently ridiculous about trying to make an MMO that breaks the Get Quest -> Kill Things -> Turn In Quest -> Level Up -> Find New Quest workflow model. EVE is a game that manages to make most of the actual gameplay about social aspects of play. There are real valid criticisms of EVE, of course; it's basically impenetrable to anyone who isn't super invested in it to begin with, the game systems that do exist are completely opaque and CCP as a company just makes bullheaded decisions on the regular. But it's there, it is 'successful' as far as third-string MMOs go, and does things radically different than WoW. So people were hopeful that a vampire MMO made in a non-traditional EVE model might actually be interesting. After all, EVE's focus on corporate play and espionage seemed like a perfect fit for Vampire. Now if you ask me how in the hell they would actually implement that I've got no idea but using Vampire wasn't really a bad idea if you take that in mind. Werewolf probably would have made a better 'traditional' MMO (as would have Hunter) but I don't think that was ever the plan.
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Jan 12, 2018 18:56
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RocknRollaAyatollah posted:This is what the MMO looked like and it never really got beyond this. https://imgur.com/a/UXN81 Vampire has tons of bad guys that could be used. Any Camarilla versus Sabbat focused game for instance is going to have tons of potential for engagements. Doubly so when you factor in that there's nothing stopping them from taking out of game bad guys like hunters or other things. The big question is how you handle what's often a social game on top of both the combat and resource focused game/survival game aspects of getting and keeping a steady supply of food. It'd require some sort of system to do, with certain powers like dominate letting you just bypass parts of it I imagine. And typically those do not go well in MMO's. Vanguard comes to mind. Regardless, to do it properly while making it fun would take some skill. Basically, the task of making a Vampire MMO is entirely doable. Heck, some indie devs have been slowly taking the job up themselves over the years with a third party project of their own after CCP gave up on the franchise. But to do it requires a lot of talent; and that is one thing that CCP's management did not have. They couldn't even decide on some basic features for the game. Ultimately, all their excuses aside, it's the big elephant in the room CCP kept dancing around when they screwed over all their non-EVE properties. They just didn't have the skills and discipline to stay on track, keep from insane feature creep prior to getting a basic workable/released project out, or even stay competent while trying to fulfill their ambitions. Hence why so many of their post-eve projects crashed and burned spectacularly while promising the stars. Take Dust 514 as another example. Sadly, it's looking like this problem is occurring again only writ large across the entire franchise in Nu White Wolf. Swedish Dracula comes off as a witless dick and Paradox doesn't seem to know what to do with the license. The people who used to joke that the whole franchise is cursed were apparently right. Archonex fucked around with this message at 19:32 on Jan 12, 2018 |
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Jan 12, 2018 19:11
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NuWW: Just make Bloodlines 2, and a Werewolf FPS, and reissue V:TES. There, you've made your money back. Honestly if people would stop treating White Wolf and Vampire in particular as some kind of identity marker and started treating it like an actual loving product this would stop happening.
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Jan 12, 2018 19:25
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The big thing I always remember about the WoD MMO is that, when the merger was announced, the WW staff active on the internet kept trying to sell it as "a merger of equals" and that it was all going to be a partnership with the WW stuff given equal clout as Eve. All those vocal claims seemed directed at refuting people looking at the two companies and seeing the merger as basically an IP acquisition with some employee retention agreements thrown in as part of the deal. Which, frankly, would be the conclusion most people with actual experience of a corporate merger would come to, looking at the companies, their relative size and balance sheets, and the plan that was announced. Fast forward a few years, and it became pretty apparent that the IP acquisition argument was in fact how CCP was treating it; the gutting of the Atlanta office when the WoD MMO closed was just the last nail in the coffin. I always wondered whether those original staffers claiming it was going to be something else actually believed at the time that it was going to be a partnership, or were just repeating the corporate spin.
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Jan 12, 2018 19:28
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Mendrian posted:NuWW: Just make Bloodlines 2, and a Werewolf FPS, and reissue V:TES. There, you've made your money back. If people would stop treating (RPG Property) as some kind of identity and started treating it like an actual loving product would be a good title for the Industry thread. Because this isn't just a White Wolf problem, it's a hobby-wide one.
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Jan 12, 2018 19:30
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thelazyblank posted:If people would stop treating (RPG Property) as some kind of identity and started treating it like an actual loving product would be a good title for the Industry thread. Because this isn't just a White Wolf problem, it's a hobby-wide one. WotC is doing an okay job with D&D. Not with the actual game, of course, but the supplemental materials (minis, boardgames, tie-ins, coloring books, etc) have actually been marketed pretty well. But your point still stands, yeah.
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Jan 12, 2018 19:34
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Mendrian posted:NuWW: Just make Bloodlines 2, and a Werewolf FPS, and reissue V:TES. There, you've made your money back. Bloodlines 2: This Time it's Open World in the vein of a Skyrim style political/action/horror sandbox would basically be my dream game. Give it proper modding tools and i'm basically set for gaming for the next few decades. No way in hell Paradox could pull it off though without like fifty expansions. CK2 and Stellaris are proof of that.
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Jan 12, 2018 20:50
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Mendrian posted:WotC is doing an okay job with D&D. Not with the actual game, of course, but the supplemental materials (minis, boardgames, tie-ins, coloring books, etc) have actually been marketed pretty well. But your point still stands, yeah. I suddenly wonder what a Critical Role equivalent for White Wolf would do for the brand. Obviously this hypothetical is for the group to have a not-awful interpretation of whatever game they're playing.
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Jan 13, 2018 01:02
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Dawgstar posted:I suddenly wonder what a Critical Role equivalent for White Wolf would do for the brand. Obviously this hypothetical is for the group to have a not-awful interpretation of whatever game they're playing. Seems like it would be one of the easier things to start up. I mean, just having actual plays up would probably go far, providing you got interesting people involved, like D&D did with Penny Arcade. Of course I think some would depend on the playstyle. They're games that can be played very differently depending on the ST and group.
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Jan 13, 2018 01:20
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I pretty firmly believe that if the Dave B Mage actual plays were a podcast they'd be phenomenally popular.
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Jan 13, 2018 01:25
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cptn_dr posted:I pretty firmly believe that if the Dave B Mage actual plays were a podcast they'd be phenomenally popular. Dave B during those threads said he hates his voice and also he sounds like some of his players so they're hard to tell apart sometimes in dialogue. This site has podcasts that don't have DaveB in them but have some of his players, so you can see what they would've sounded like minus the DaveB. Critical Role is partially popular because it's done by professional voice actors. TAZ is partially popular because the McElroys are funny and do funny voices. DaveB's crew by comparison are just some nerds in the UK. bewilderment fucked around with this message at 01:34 on Jan 13, 2018 |
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Jan 13, 2018 01:29
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Dawgstar posted:I suddenly wonder what a Critical Role equivalent for White Wolf would do for the brand. Obviously this hypothetical is for the group to have a not-awful interpretation of whatever game they're playing. Bring undeserved attention to Swedracula and nuWW? Increase the level of sperginess in whatever they do with the original content? It would take a talented group of players and a talented storyteller to pull it off, but I think because of the need for homebrewed content, Chronicles whatever would probably be better for it. Classic storylines would be great, but the environment for them is too problematic with nuWW to succeed without compromise.
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Jan 13, 2018 01:32
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Archonex posted:Bloodlines 2:  quote:This Time it's Open World in the vein of a Skyrim 
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Jan 13, 2018 01:33
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