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Mods want us to go back to fuckin hyperspace chat. God save us all
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Jan 12, 2018 07:06
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Milky Moor posted:On the other hand, there are people who didn't get that the scene where Luke reaches out to Leia is him reconnecting to the Force. This might be because it's treated with all the gravitas of making a phone call, implying that cutting yourself off and reconnecting to the Force is as simple as deciding to do it, but hey. The Force is the world outside your own life, thoughts, and concerns. Cutting yourself off from it is much like living off the grid and cutting off all communications. Except it's even easier to restore your connection to the Force than it is to turn your phone back on and make a call, because what you are really doing is being concerned with the outside world. Connecting to the Force for the first time is difficult only because transitioning from the private world of the family to the public world of the community is part of the process of becoming an adult. e: based on my understanding of classical Chinese tropes, Luke's actions in TLJ will probably be very familiar to Asian audiences, except that Luke's refusal to return with Rey might be seen as abdicating his responsibilities once it becomes clear that he actually means it. Would be interesting to see if I'm correct about that. e2: on the other hand, Luke's character in this, far from being unusual, is actually close to identical with any kung-fu movie in which the sage mentor retired in shame or grief. Like Jackie Chan's character in the 2010 Karate Kid and so forth. Hodgepodge fucked around with this message at 08:18 on Jan 12, 2018 |
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Jan 12, 2018 08:06
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Captain von Trapp posted:While I think this is a borderline disengenuous thing to say about a film with a gross well in excess of a billion dollars, it's funny nonetheless: is disney going to go the path WB took with their superhero movies and make them even BLANDER
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Jan 12, 2018 08:23
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Milky Moor posted:This has nothing to do with what I said? Luke says "where's Han?" and the scene cuts away. Given that Luke understands the current conflict and doesn't spend the rest of the movie saying "seriously what's going on, why won't you talk to me?", an intelligent person can infer that the characters had a conversation about what happened. Tender Bender fucked around with this message at 13:50 on Jan 12, 2018 |
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Jan 12, 2018 13:29
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Tender Bender posted:Luke says "where's Han?" and the scene cuts away. Given that Luke understands the current conflict and doesn't spend the rest of the movie saying "seriously what's going on, why won't you talk to me?", an intelligent person can infer that the characters had a conversation about what happened. Hmm, but the very next scene has Rey saying what I just quoted (all stuff that indicates that they did not, in fact, discuss the 'current conflict'.)
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Jan 12, 2018 13:59
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Milky Moor posted:Hmm, but the very next scene has Rey saying what I just quoted (all stuff that indicates that they did not, in fact, discuss the 'current conflict'.) So you're saying that the only conversation they had about what's going on are those five sentences? Where's Han?
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Jan 12, 2018 14:06
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Tender Bender posted:So you're saying that the only conversation they had about what's going on are those five sentences? Yes. If Rey adequately explained that Ren killed Han, it's a bit weird that she would need to reiterate that there's no light left in him (especially when that is what Luke made him decide to kill him in the first place). TLJ is a bad script. Rey might not have said anything. Chewie may have just growled mournfully and Luke might've gone off to sulk. Your interpretation is based on headcanon. Remember that TFA is the film that set up things like 'Who's the girl?' with dramatic cuts to imply depth that wasn't there ("Who's the girl?" Maz asks. "Some random," Han replies.) TLJ merely repeats this ("Where's Han?" "He's dead.") The whole conversation Luke and Rey have in the very next scene is basically the first conversation they have, given that it's seemingly Rey's first attempt to explain why she's there and Luke's cynical response.
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Jan 12, 2018 14:14
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Milky Moor posted:Yes. tfw you're so desperate to dunk on a star wars movie that you'd rather pretend to be a moron than back down on a single point.
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Jan 12, 2018 14:20
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Tender Bender posted:tfw you're so desperate to dunk on a star wars movie that you'd rather pretend to be a moron than back down on a single point. It's really not hard to dunk on TLJ, though? Unless you, for some reason, think it has a really good script? I'm not sure how you simultaneously believe that Luke and Rey had some kind of conversation about everything including Ren killing Han and Rey defeating him in a duel but then have their very next scene basically be the meet-and-greet where Rey has to seemingly remind Luke that noted patricide enthusiast Kylo Ren 'has no light left in him'. Like, not even a few hours have passed by that point (this is before Luke drinks the blue milk). Milkfred E. Moore fucked around with this message at 14:34 on Jan 12, 2018 |
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Jan 12, 2018 14:31
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Milky Moor posted:It's really not hard to dunk on TLJ, though? Unless you, for some reason, think it has a really good script? It's not hard to dunk on it, which is why I don't know why you're dying on the hill of "I don't understand incredibly basic storytelling concepts".
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Jan 12, 2018 14:35
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Milky Moor posted:This has nothing to do with what I said? Luke asks, "Where's Han?" The movie cuts away, and when it comes back, they're talking about Kylo Ren, the man who killed Han, and how there's no light left in him. You have to go out of your way to assume the conversation in between was not Rey telling Luke that Kylo killed Han. This is basic stuff.
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Jan 12, 2018 14:41
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Tender Bender posted:It's not hard to dunk on it, which is why I don't know why you're dying on the hill of "I don't understand incredibly basic storytelling concepts". It's very subversive, actually. You see, you have a scene break that implies that the two characters had an in-depth conversation, so our next scene can be something interesting as we skip boring exposition. But actually, the very next scene is where Rey restates the boring exposition. But in a mild way, like she's explaining it all for the first time. Additionally, she should tell things that both Luke and the audience already know. I don't see how you can reconcile 'Actually, Rey told Luke about how she defeated Kylo Ren but off-screen' with the scene where Luke is surprised and scared of her power. Surely if she had talked about beating Ren down and cutting his face open the first time she had handled a lightsaber, Luke would've been somewhat more curious than apparently not at all. As it is, if they had a conversation in the cutaway, it was nothing more than 'Han's dead' and maybe 'Kylo Ren killed him' and, I guess, 'My name is Rey' given that Luke uses it in the next scene. The very next conversation has Luke taking an interest in Rey because she's seen the island in her dreams. Not because of anything she apparently said to him in the interim given that he's still set on ignoring her. thrawn527 posted:Luke asks, "Where's Han?" The movie cuts away, and when it comes back, they're talking about Kylo Ren, the man who killed Han, and how there's no light left in him. You have to go out of your way to assume the conversation in between was not Rey telling Luke that Kylo killed Han. This is basic stuff. If Rey told Luke that Ren killed Han, why does she need to state later -- be it minutes or hours -- that there's no light in Kylo Ren? Surely that should be clear in this imagined conversation and not something Rey would need to restate. Rey might have said something, Chewie might have said something. Luke may have merely deduced that Han was dead given that some girl was here with his ship and best mate. The script provides no indication of what actually happened beyond 'Luke realises that Han is dead'. You could cut out the Snoke scene between the two and lose nothing. Literally "Where's Han?" into "There's no light..." This is not indicative of some conversation we're not privy to. But ImpAtom's point was that Rey apparently told Luke all about how she defeated Kylo Ren. Exact quote: "Rey specifically told Luke the story of her fighting Kylo Ren." Weirdly enough, this was some kind of counter-argument on my point that Luke has no idea about Ren's obsession with the Anakin saber... unless Rey talked about that, too? Milkfred E. Moore fucked around with this message at 15:06 on Jan 12, 2018 |
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Jan 12, 2018 14:59
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“Ren killed Han” does not actually confirm “there’s no light left in him.” After all, we know the latter’s false while the former’s true.
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Jan 12, 2018 15:08
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Milky Moor posted:It's very subversive, actually. You see, you have a scene break that implies that the two characters had an in-depth conversation, so our next scene can be something interesting as we skip boring exposition. But actually, the very next scene is where Rey restates the boring exposition. But in a mild way, like she's explaining it all for the first time. Additionally, she should tell things that both Luke and the audience already know. You're bending yourself into a pretzel to argue that something that obviously happened didn't happen, and instead some things that the script does not convey did happen, because someone who likes the movie correctly described the obvious thing and so to let their statement stand would be a failure.
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Jan 12, 2018 15:12
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^^^ Actually, I am correct. Only one of us has had to resort to fanfiction. I mean, if I was desperate to dunk on TLJ, I could say dumb things like 'Why/how does Rey even know Kylo Ren is alive given that the last she saw of him was lying on the snow, seemingly incapacitated from some pretty major wounds, as the planet exploded underneath him?'
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Jan 12, 2018 15:15
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*a look of horror slowly spreads across my face as I come to realize I am almost certainly talking to someone who has signed a petition to remove the last jedi from the star wars canon*
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Jan 12, 2018 15:18
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Tender Bender posted:*a look of horror slowly spreads across my face as I come to realize I am almost certainly talking to someone who has signed a petition to remove the last jedi from the star wars canon* My favorite part of TLJ was when Luke specifically taught Rey to swim. She grew up on a desert planet, yet swims perfectly. It obviously, specifically happened. Unable to defend this point with textual evidence, I'll imply my opponent is an alt-right neckbeard.
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Jan 12, 2018 15:23
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My dude, the textual evidence is the movie. Take the L and go back to complaining about lightspeed ramming or something.
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Jan 12, 2018 15:29
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Tender Bender posted:My dude, the textual evidence is the movie. Take the L and go back to complaining about lightspeed ramming or something. *a look of horror slowly spreads across my face as I come to realize I am almost certainly talking to someone who has no idea what the word specifically means, specifically*  the word you're thinking of is implicitly
Milkfred E. Moore fucked around with this message at 15:37 on Jan 12, 2018 |
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Jan 12, 2018 15:31
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Was the color off at many theaters, or did people actually see blue milk?
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Jan 12, 2018 15:35
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Milky Moor posted:*a look of horror slowly spreads across my face as I come to realize I am almost certainly talking to someone who has no idea what the word specifically means, specifically* Is that what all this is about, ImpAtom should have said implicitly instead of specifically?
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Jan 12, 2018 15:48
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Doesn't chewie say something to Luke as well.
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Jan 12, 2018 16:13
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Ferrinus posted:“Ren killed Han” does not actually confirm “there’s no light left in him.” After all, we know the latter’s false while the former’s true. I watched Han's murder scene recently, having not seen TFA before I saw TLJ. When Kylo (Ben?) says "thank you," his face and voice are so cryptic. It leaves so many questions about his feelings and motivations. Adam Driver can act. It seems like that's the only thing people can mostly agree on from TLJ.  But Rey wasn't close enough to see his face. She didn't see this. I went into TLJ with some friends, having lost any excitement for Star Wars, but Kylo alone made me give a poo poo again. Even though Kylo's demonstrably pond scum, Adam makes him so compelling. I wish Kylo success in his endeavors to eliminate all rebels (whom I just don't care about). 
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Jan 12, 2018 16:28
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Ema Nymton posted:I watched Han's murder scene recently, having not seen TFA before I saw TLJ. When Kylo (Ben?) says "thank you," his face and voice are so cryptic. It leaves so many questions about his feelings and motivations. Adam Driver can act. It seems like that's the only thing people can mostly agree on from TLJ. Agreed My stepdad who swore off Star Warses since RotS, and saw Star Wars 1977 in theaters, and loves it and played with x wings with me when the special editions came out, saw this one with no context and said it’s the best My mom who hates the star wars, especially since my 6/9/12 yo old self, dragged her to the prequels, said this was the best one Srry if you hate fun and love technobabble/a blue dude who is just SOOOO badass that he plans operTion husky after looking at the mona lisa/the abortion known as AotC Star wars is about fun, iconography, and mass appeal. Good guys beating bad guys. It’s the things that happen in AotC and not a 15000 word screed about the background of a scene that is never addressed in any context.
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Jan 12, 2018 16:43
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If you wanted a movie about fun and good guys beating bad guys why on earth would you want to watch The Last Jedi? I saw GotG 2 like a day after and it just blew it out of the water in terms of all the things you say you watched TLJ for
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Jan 12, 2018 16:52
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TheKingofSprings posted:If you wanted a movie about fun and good guys beating bad guys why on earth would you want to watch The Last Jedi? Sorry for you idocy and loss
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Jan 12, 2018 17:02
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GRRRRROOOOOOOt thonlol
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Jan 12, 2018 17:02
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Turtlicious posted:How did people know SMG didn't see star wars? That's the funny thing, if he didn't openly say stuff like that, you wouldn't know he hadn't seen the movie because everything he's said about TLJ is pretty accurate.
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Jan 12, 2018 17:04
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Corky Romanovsky posted:Was the color off at many theaters, or did people actually see blue milk? that milk was definitely blue
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Jan 12, 2018 17:14
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FuturePastNow posted:that milk was definitely blue Also...it weren't milk.
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Jan 12, 2018 17:17
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Someone said it, but that monster definitely didn't like that Rey was there, because Luke didn't go all in on sucking it like he usually does.
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Jan 12, 2018 17:20
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Edgar Allen Ho posted:Sorry for you idocy and loss Sorry for you too simple person.
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Jan 12, 2018 17:25
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I assume TLJ is like Seinfeld where everyone always know what the other guys are up to. Also, Luke can tab into Snoke's force prepaid network.
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Jan 12, 2018 17:33
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TheKingofSprings posted:If you wanted a movie about fun and good guys beating bad guys why on earth would you want to watch The Last Jedi? That is like comparing apples to rotten oranges, dude. also GotG 2 sucks real bad.
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Jan 12, 2018 17:35
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Edgar Allen Ho posted:Star wars is about fun, iconography, and mass appeal. Good guys beating bad guys. It’s the things that happen in AotC and not a 15000 word screed about the background of a scene that is never addressed in any context. IMO 'fun' and 'iconography' and 'mass appeal' are kind of valueless statements because you can truthfully say the same thing about basically every franchise movie ever. call it the Transformers Test. Also TLJ has demonstrably has worse mass appeal by the metric of ticket sales. It's arguable that TLJ's ticket sales reflect TFA more than TLJ but it's the best metric we got atm. I suppose when you boil it down star wars has always been about laser beams pew pew and scifi spectacle, in the same way transformers is arguably about crunch crunch robot spectacle, but imo star wars has a much stronger foundation. Effective world building and real good art design in ep IV went a looooooong way to making it a cult classic. TLJ probably had the best art design out of any of the follow movies, except maybe ESB, but its world building was complete garbage. If you don't care about world building at all okay. But you should recognize that its a traditional strength of star wars.
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Jan 12, 2018 17:37
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FuturePastNow posted:
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Jan 12, 2018 17:39
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bushisms.txt posted:Someone said it, but that monster definitely didn't like that Rey was there, because Luke didn't go all in on sucking it like he usually does. Yeah, Luke was giving the sea monster top. This is the real "shape of water".
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Jan 12, 2018 17:40
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TheBigBudgetSequel posted:also GotG 2 sucks real bad. Both GotG 2 and TLJ were great.
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Jan 12, 2018 17:47
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Milky Moor posted:I'm not sure how you simultaneously believe that Luke and Rey had some kind of conversation about everything including Ren killing Han and Rey defeating him in a duel but then have their very next scene basically be the meet-and-greet where Rey has to seemingly remind Luke that noted patricide enthusiast Kylo Ren 'has no light left in him'. Like, not even a few hours have passed by that point (this is before Luke drinks the blue milk). Have you... have you ever seen a film before? Ever?  "Character says things both characters already know to reinforce a point for the audience" is like something that exists in every film ever. ImpAtom fucked around with this message at 18:33 on Jan 12, 2018 |
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Jan 12, 2018 18:30
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Not only does it cut away, it cuts directly to kylo in his kylo helmet. Which answers the question luke just asked using the visual movie medium of moving pictures.
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Jan 12, 2018 18:34
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