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I love the little jokes they hide in the game. The material component for Detect Thoughts is a copper piece. It's literally a penny for your thoughts!
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Jan 12, 2018 16:56
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Fans posted:I played in it and the Shambling Mound was fine but the escape with the blade doors and smoke was a complete murder party. I've played it three times. Of the two times they actually reached the mound, they killed it both times. That being said, it hits pretty hard and can probably flatten a low HP character. So, pretty tough?
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Jan 12, 2018 18:49
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Mendrian posted:I've played it three times. Of the two times they actually reached the mound, they killed it both times. Then again what can't at that level.
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Jan 12, 2018 18:50
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Fionordequester posted:2) Related to that, there's an unexpectedly OP bard character in the group I had. Even at LVL 1, he seems to have the ability to brainwash anything with a brain to do anything he wants them to. I'm not sure how that all works, but it means I may have a lot of trouble providing actually challenging (yet fair) encounters in any believable setting. "Charm" doesn't mean the same thing in 5e that it might in other games that use it to mean "this person is now obedient and subservient to you." Your bard is probably casting "Friends" and all it does is give them 60 seconds where they have advantage on Persuasion and Deception and when the spell cracks, the person affected knows they were charmed (and gets angry about it, possibly to the point of violence!). The recipient also can't attack that character for 60 seconds, which is of questionable use because you can only use it in the first place on someone who wasn't hostile. Read the players' spells every time because they will make up poo poo their class can do basically all the time. I'm in a game where the monk just keeps improvising poo poo about what his action economy can do and the DM isn't doing much to enforce it and I'm done being "that guy" with the "it's just one extra attack isn't it?" Nehru the Damaja fucked around with this message at 19:09 on Jan 12, 2018 |
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Jan 12, 2018 19:04
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No gaming is better than bad gaming. That's not saying that you should just give up on a group because a bad session when no-one really knew better, but it does mean that you take some steps to try to improve things but if things aren't improving then fuckin' bail, don't prolong the torture indefinitely and get Stockholmed into thinking bad gaming is actually good if you happen to like hammering nails into your genitals.
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Jan 12, 2018 20:14
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Lori posted:I love the little jokes they hide in the game. The material component for Detect Thoughts is a copper piece. It's literally a penny for your thoughts! I don't know if you've ever looked through AD&D, but there's a fair few of those material component jokes. The detect thoughts spells was called ESP, and that used a copper piece too. Off the top of my head, you send a Message with a copper wire, and produce a Gust Of Wind using (presumably eating) a legume. e: And then there's stuff that makes you question if there's any magic going on at all, like Stinking Cloud requiring a rotten egg, or Water Breathing needing a reed or straw. e2: I think I remember some spell that knocks opponents down using a banana peel, too. Or that might have been one of the cartoons they used as art in places. Or both. Elector_Nerdlingen fucked around with this message at 21:08 on Jan 12, 2018 |
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Jan 12, 2018 21:02
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For clarification, the 2700 lb. guy and the super bard are separate characters. Just wanted to throw that out there, so there wasn't any confusion. But yeah, I think I can go ahead and continue DMing, thinking about it now. I've got another session lined up, but fortunately, it's one where I get to do a lot more talking. Also wanted to say... Nehru the Damaja posted:"Charm" doesn't mean the same thing in 5e that it might in other games that use it to mean "this person is now obedient and subservient to you." Your bard is probably casting "Friends" and all it does is give them 60 seconds where they have advantage on Persuasion and Deception and when the spell cracks, the person affected knows they were charmed (and gets angry about it, possibly to the point of violence!). The recipient also can't attack that character for 60 seconds, which is of questionable use because you can only use it in the first place on someone who wasn't hostile. Ok, THAT makes sense! That seems like something that would accomplish what the bard did, without being totally broken. ImpactVector posted:I'd surmise that if they made that monster of a post about an elfgame on the something awful dot com forums that they probably did not have fun, and continue to not have fun thinking about it. I could be wrong though. I did actually have fun, for that particular DnD session. It was pretty amusing, writing for how one of my other NPC's reacted when the bard tried to convince her that she was his wife (she basically pretended she fell for him, before revealing she had some sort of cap on that prevented that sort of mesmorization; cue blasting the guy with magic). It was also hilarious, seeing the reactions when the bard actually succeeded in getting two ogres to kill each other (everyone was cracking up; I even decided that the two relevant ogres actually WERE cheating each other behind the scenes, just for further comedic value). Little things like that made the game worth it... ... I just knew I couldn't continue that way. And seeing as the co-DM didn't prepare me as adequately as I would've liked, I figured it'd be best to seek some more opinions. Thanks for your responses, everyone  .
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Jan 12, 2018 21:17
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AlphaDog posted:I don't know if you've ever looked through AD&D, but there's a fair few of those material component jokes. The detect thoughts spells was called ESP, and that used a copper piece too. Off the top of my head, you send a Message with a copper wire, and produce a Gust Of Wind using (presumably eating) a legume. Yeah there's a long history of D&D using material components as jokes. Tasha's Hideous Laughter involves throwing pies in the face and tickling with a feather. I guess it's neat that they kept this decades old tradition, if you're into that sort of thing.
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Jan 12, 2018 21:20
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Fionordequester posted:I did actually have fun, for that particular DnD session. It sounds like things aren't completely dysfunctional then, so maybe even a quick "Hey guys, I'm new. Play nice." could help smooth things out.
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Jan 12, 2018 21:33
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ImpactVector posted:Awesome, I'm happy to be wrong. Fighting for control of a game can be kind of overwhelming, but I'm glad it didn't turn out that way to you. Yeah. This isn't me losing control of things; this is me sensing that I MIGHT have problems later on, if I don't learn more. So I was taking steps to prevent that .
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Jan 12, 2018 21:44
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Fionordequester posted:Ok, THAT makes sense! That seems like something that would accomplish what the bard did, without being totally broken. Remember that the spell gives advantage on social checks and that's really the biggest part of the "charm." They're still subject to difficulty checks that should reflect the difficulty of the task. You may be my friend, but if you're trying to persuade me rob a bank for you, you're still going to face an almost impossibly high DC. The spell gives you advantage on that check. It doesn't lower the effective DC or grant an automatic success or anything. And this is only if you're not hostile to me in the first place! Spells that mind-control people into hurting others for you are much harder to pull off and require more resources and/or magic expertise.
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Jan 12, 2018 22:15
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The various charm spells in 5e are some of the most infuriating poo poo ever and invariably lead to varied debates on what is 'reasonable'. Why they picked enchantments in particular to be vague escapes me.
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Jan 12, 2018 22:33
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Where skill checks and stuff come into play, don't be afraid to say "that's not possible", or better yet "that's not possible yet / until X / like that / with your current resources". "I'm gonna lift the 20 ton gate off its hinges" doesn't get you a roll. 5th ed doesn't do automatic success on a natural 20 for skills. You still have to beat the DC. That means that if the thing they're trying to do is impossible even if they roll a 20, you should say so. Again, I'd specify that it's the method, not the intended result, that you're saying no to. "No need to roll dice. It's impossible for you to do it like that". Don't be afraid to just let things happen, either. "I'm gonna come back with like 30 dudes and some ropes and pulleys and levers and lift the 20 ton gate off its hinges" probably doesn't need a roll. Elector_Nerdlingen fucked around with this message at 22:45 on Jan 12, 2018 |
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Jan 12, 2018 22:35
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One thing I could really stand to improve at as a DM is spotting moments to call for charisma skill checks. I get into voicing the NPCs and trying to talk like people who have a stake in something and that can lead to snappy dialogue where I lose sight of the fact that someone is trying to persuade or deceive me. Having been on the player side of this, I know it sucks a lot and I think maybe my best option is just to tell the players to let me know when they're trying to do that. I had players get a bit frustrated a few times and take it into their own hands to let me know and as luck would have it, it was always on the occasions where they actually couldn't succeed because they're lying about things the NPCs know the facts about. I ended up looking like one of those guys who uses DM fiat to make sure everything is told according to my whims and so I can "defeat" the players.
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Jan 12, 2018 23:15
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I usually leave room for crit success / fail on skill checks, but my players don't even get a skill check unless there is 1) a possibility of success in the first place and 2) consequences for failing the check. Also speaking of lifting heavy things, a lvl 20 goliath barbarian with 24 STR under the effects of an enlarge spell can lift 2880lbs.
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Jan 12, 2018 23:21
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Nehru the Damaja posted:One thing I could really stand to improve at as a DM is spotting moments to call for charisma skill checks. I get into voicing the NPCs and trying to talk like people who have a stake in something and that can lead to snappy dialogue where I lose sight of the fact that someone is trying to persuade or deceive me. Having been on the player side of this, I know it sucks a lot and I think maybe my best option is just to tell the players to let me know when they're trying to do that. One thing I like is getting checks Before the diplomacy check, so the player gets an opportunity to role play being wrong. For the latter thing, make it clear the npc knows the truth if you’re concerned about being too severe. Even if you’re revealing big info, it’ll move stuff forwards. Sometimes that’s not a great option though.
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Jan 12, 2018 23:30
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Soylent Pudding posted:Also speaking of lifting heavy things, a lvl 20 goliath barbarian with 24 STR under the effects of an enlarge spell can lift 2880lbs. That seems kinda low for an inhumanly strong fantasy barbarian with magical assistance. Unless "lift" means "over your head" or something?
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Jan 12, 2018 23:42
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I am assuming the Barbarian is a Bear Totem Barbarian, which like Goliath gives an increase to carrying capacity. And you basically are not going to find a character lifting more than a Goliath Bear Totem Barbarian at 20th level. At least not without going to homebrew. Like my Legendary Hero who can with one talent get up to 32 Strength with x32 carrying capacity and with another talent count as up to 6 size categories larger for carrying capacity. Of course part of the idea of the class is that you could some Herculean Hero who could redirect a river, drink a lake dry, or lift a building if necessary.
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Jan 13, 2018 00:00
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AlphaDog posted:That seems kinda low for an inhumanly strong fantasy barbarian with magical assistance. Unless "lift" means "over your head" or something? I mean that's like a small car, seems pretty impressive to me, and definitely inhumanly strong. The Mountain That Rides actor from game of thrones just broke the world record by lifting like 1400 pounds, and that was on his shoulders, starting at almost shoulder height on a stand, and staggering just a few steps forward.
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Jan 13, 2018 00:04
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Ryuujin posted:I am assuming the Barbarian is a Bear Totem Barbarian, which like Goliath gives an increase to carrying capacity. And you basically are not going to find a character lifting more than a Goliath Bear Totem Barbarian at 20th level. At least not without going to homebrew. Like my Legendary Hero who can with one talent get up to 32 Strength with x32 carrying capacity and with another talent count as up to 6 size categories larger for carrying capacity. Of course part of the idea of the class is that you could some Herculean Hero who could redirect a river, drink a lake dry, or lift a building if necessary. Oops, I forgot about the lvl 10? bear totem ability doubling lifting and carrying capacity. Therefore the upper limit is actually 2880 * 2 = 5760lbs or 2.8 tons. Soylent Pudding fucked around with this message at 00:12 on Jan 13, 2018 |
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Jan 13, 2018 00:10
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There is a difference between what men can do in the real world and what fantasy heroes should be able to do, especially if they are known for being supernaturally strong. That D&D, this edition in particular, are bad at representing that is not a good thing. Remember by the time a hero is level 5 they should have easily left behind the capabilities of mere real world mortals, and probably much sooner. They are Heroes after all.
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Jan 13, 2018 00:12
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I always think of 16 as being like near mortal limits for a stat but I'm not sure if that has any basis in writing somewhere.
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Jan 13, 2018 00:15
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Nehru the Damaja posted:I always think of 16 as being like near mortal limits for a stat but I'm not sure if that has any basis in writing somewhere. A 16 STR is a carry capacity of 240lbs and a lifting capacity of 480 which seems reasonable for a high performance athlete. This article compares D&D performance versus Olympic athletes in various sporting events: https://winghornpress.com/2016/04/19/dd-vs-the-olympics/
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Jan 13, 2018 00:18
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The Gate posted:I mean that's like a small car, seems pretty impressive to me, and definitely inhumanly strong. The Mountain That Rides actor from game of thrones just broke the world record by lifting like 1400 pounds, and that was on his shoulders, starting at almost shoulder height on a stand, and staggering just a few steps forward. That's kinda what I mean. We're not talking about a human here, or even a fantasy human. We're talking about a fantasy race, the character (optimised to lift heavy things) who's at the pinnacle of their power, assisted by a magic spell. That feels like it should be "more powerful than a locomotive" levels of strong. Nehru the Damaja posted:I always think of 16 as being like near mortal limits for a stat but I'm not sure if that has any basis in writing somewhere. I dunno about 5th ed, but ages ago 18 was the "mortal human" stat limit and everything past that was either a class ability, a nonhuman bonus, or a magical assist. Soylent Pudding posted:A 16 STR is a carry capacity of 240lbs and a lifting capacity of 480 which seems reasonable for a high performance athlete. This article compares D&D performance versus Olympic athletes in various sporting events: https://winghornpress.com/2016/04/19/dd-vs-the-olympics/ As noted in that article, the kind of lift is super important and the rules don't specify what they mean by lift. If it's taking an inert weight off the ground and ending with it over your head, then yeah, D&D characters can be very impressive. If it's a deadlift, D&D characters aren't that great compared to IRL lifters. If it's something like "the maximum weight you could get off the ground at all" (check out "backlifts"), then lol. E: The relationship between carrying and lifting capacity implies that a lift would be "over your head, possibly for some time, maybe taking a few steps" rather than a deadlift or something. Elector_Nerdlingen fucked around with this message at 00:34 on Jan 13, 2018 |
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Jan 13, 2018 00:26
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AlphaDog posted:That's kinda what I mean. We're not talking about a human here, or even a fantasy human. We're talking about a fantasy race, the character (optimised to lift heavy things) who's at the pinnacle of their power, assisted by a magic spell. That feels like it should be "more powerful than a locomotive" levels of strong. Well so with that revision that the Barb is actually able to lift 5600ish weight. That's picking up and carrying on his arms a small pickup truck. Moreover, he's able to do that, move at half (?) speed still, and isn't really worried about getting tired I don't think. Meanwhile, strongest human moves 5 feet carrying a fourth the weight, and would be crushed to death if not for the frame set up to catch the weight. Barbarian dude could just cart around a truck for fun. Maybe not locomotive level, I guess, but I dunno, that seems insane. That barb could juggle normal sized horses.
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Jan 13, 2018 00:35
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The Gate posted:Well so with that revision that the Barb is actually able to lift 5600ish weight. That's picking up and carrying on his arms a small pickup truck. Moreover, he's able to do that, move at half (?) speed still, and isn't really worried about getting tired I don't think. Meanwhile, strongest human moves 5 feet carrying a fourth the weight, and would be crushed to death if not for the frame set up to catch the weight. Yeah, that's what I'm picturing then. When I think "lift" I'm thinking about powerlifting - barely raise the bar to the required height and then drop it, once. Not "slowly carry around without getting tired". I missed the 5600lbs revision, and I missed "still move half speed without getting tired" (can you reference that?). That's crazy strong and seems totally appropriate for the strong guy with maxed out lifting at top level. Elector_Nerdlingen fucked around with this message at 00:49 on Jan 13, 2018 |
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Jan 13, 2018 00:42
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AlphaDog posted:Yeah, that's what I'm picturing then. When I think "lift" I'm thinking about powerlifting - barely raise the bar to the required height and then drop it, once. Not "slowly carry around without getting tired". IIRC the lifting rules say you can lift up to half your max carry without moving slower, up to max at half speed. It's been a while but I remember looking at it for grappling for someone to grapple someone and drag them around. The not getting tired I just don't think there's any sort of check built in, but I'll admit I'm not as certain on that part.
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Jan 13, 2018 00:52
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Yeah fair enough. I mean, juggling horses is barely a party trick compared to what an equivalently optimised spellcaster could get up to, and I was initially picturing "not quite as strong as an ox" rather than "carries a truck". I'll shut up about it.
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Jan 13, 2018 00:58
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AlphaDog posted:Yeah fair enough. Actually, I'm not sure where the 5600 is coming from looking at my PHB, but yeah, I'm not going to worry to much about it. A lot of that kind of skill check stuff comes down to GM fiat anyway, so....
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Jan 13, 2018 01:01
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Sage Genesis posted:Yeah there's a long history of D&D using material components as jokes. Tasha's Hideous Laughter involves throwing pies in the face and tickling with a feather. I guess it's neat that they kept this decades old tradition, if you're into that sort of thing. 3.5's Ray of Stupidity used a miniature dunce cap as a component and made a 'duhhhh' sound as it fired.
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Jan 13, 2018 01:36
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Ryuujin posted:you basically are not going to find a character lifting more than a Goliath Bear Totem Barbarian at 20th level.
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Jan 13, 2018 01:43
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I forget, did that increase carrying capacity? Though I don't think it was updated to an official book.
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Jan 13, 2018 02:01
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Ryuujin posted:I forget, did that increase carrying capacity? Though I don't think it was updated to an official book. It lets you count as one size larger. I think for a Goliath that means you count as Huge?
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Jan 13, 2018 10:24
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Rigged Death Trap posted:The various charm spells in 5e are some of the most infuriating poo poo ever and invariably lead to varied debates on what is 'reasonable'.
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Jan 13, 2018 10:26
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Nickoten posted:It lets you count as one size larger. I think for a Goliath that means you count as Huge? Nah, player Goliaths are still "medium" for some loving dumb reason. So they just carry like they're large.
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Jan 13, 2018 15:47
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They already carry as if they are Large. The question is does the Feat interact with that.
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Jan 13, 2018 15:59
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Oh, whoops, maybe I should read the context of a post before I reply. Sorry!
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Jan 13, 2018 16:07
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AlphaDog posted:Where skill checks and stuff come into play, don't be afraid to say "that's not possible", or better yet "that's not possible yet / until X / like that / with your current resources". I find that “you can’t quite do that, at least yet” plays better than “you can’t do that”, even if there’s no logical reason that it would change in the future.
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Jan 13, 2018 17:13
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Hey guys. How good is the starter kit for 5E? My girlfriend and a few of her friends want to try D&D. none have any experience, I've played 5E like once but I've read the books, and played way back in 3rd. Figure it could be fun just to sit down for an evening and have everyone make characters or use a pre-generated and then do a one shot through the starter thing. Bad idea? I've never DM'd before so I dont know what im getting into.
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Jan 13, 2018 17:31
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queeb posted:Hey guys. How good is the starter kit for 5E? My girlfriend and a few of her friends want to try D&D. none have any experience, I've played 5E like once but I've read the books, and played way back in 3rd. Figure it could be fun just to sit down for an evening and have everyone make characters or use a pre-generated and then do a one shot through the starter thing. Bad idea? I've never DM'd before so I dont know what im getting into. The 5e Starter Set has always been said to be pretty solid. Don't think I have seen or read anything from someone who dislikes it. It's a solid little adventure. It's unlikely you will get through the Starter set in an evening. But the Cave Dungeon at the start will likely be gotten through in a session. It's a decent idea and from memory does a good job telling you what you need to know.
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Jan 13, 2018 17:38
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