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RBA Starblade posted:The Death Star is a droid right? I don't think I got an answer to that question. It fucks and talks to R2 though (does that mean when the techs were flipping those switches to get it to fire they were jerking it off?) so I guess so. The Death Star is a fleshlight
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Jan 12, 2018 23:01
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Jeb! Repetition posted:The Death Star is a fleshlight No the battering ram cannon is
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Jan 12, 2018 23:06
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People who don't think droids are people must be very confused at ANH following a pair of inanimate objects for fifteen minutes.RBA Starblade posted:Star Wars 12 or whatever better have a Death Star and a Force-using Planet or something square off.
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Jan 12, 2018 23:22
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I'm pretty sure Lucas himself has talked about how droids aren't quite people and Vader's connection to the force is muddled by all his machine parts. When Obi Wan says, "He's more machine now than man," it isn't meant to be entirely OB just being an rear end in a top hat. I may have dreamed this though.
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Jan 12, 2018 23:28
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I don't think there's been anything about droid personhood in the ST so I doubt there'll be anything on it in IX.
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Jan 12, 2018 23:32
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porfiria posted:I'm pretty sure Lucas himself has talked about how droids aren't quite people and Vader's connection to the force is muddled by all his machine parts. When Obi Wan says, "He's more machine now than man," it isn't meant to be entirely OB just being an rear end in a top hat. I may have dreamed this though.
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Jan 13, 2018 00:13
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porfiria posted:I'm pretty sure Lucas himself has talked about how droids aren't quite people and Vader's connection to the force is muddled by all his machine parts. Yes - inorganic lifeforms have no midichlorians, and Vader has fewer than Anakin did. The “droids aren’t people” fantasy is closely linked to the Jedi’s mutant supremacism.
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Jan 13, 2018 00:56
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Yeah I remember some discussion that the thought was that Anakin was more powerful than Vader. But Anakin's full potential wasn't exactly realized and Vader was a less powerful apprentice than the Emperor was hoping to get.
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Jan 13, 2018 01:04
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Gatts posted:Yeah I remember some discussion that the thought was that Anakin was more powerful than Vader. But Anakin's full potential wasn't exactly realized and Vader was a less powerful apprentice than the Emperor was hoping to get. Well I mean the real point is that Vader defeats Emperor Satan using neither psychic powers nor a lightsaber. He uses his droid parts.
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Jan 13, 2018 01:27
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I mean you can sort of see it, the only real droid characters in any of the movies are 3PO and R2, and God only knows what R2 is thinking. 3PO seems pretty person-y but it's not hard to imagine George saying something weird like, "3PO has human characteristics but he doesn't really grow or change like the humans do. He can't really go against his essential nature." Seriously read that in Lucas voice it sounds plausible to me. And the mordant robot in Rogue One but I barely remember his deal. He had brain damage or something.
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Jan 13, 2018 01:36
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Dirk the Average posted:People aren't manufactured and programmed. There is a large and distinct difference between a person and a robot, even a sentient one. There is a difference between people and robots. Droids, however, are people.
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Jan 13, 2018 01:37
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porfiria posted:And the mordant robot in Rogue One but I barely remember his deal. He had brain damage or something. His name was Kaytoo and he was a hero drat it.
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Jan 13, 2018 01:43
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porfiria posted:it's not hard to imagine George Weird thoughts.
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Jan 13, 2018 01:54
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I still say R2D2 is a Force God. He does everything. I get he can't have midochlorians but...come on. COME ON. Or maybe he's the James Bond of SW only pumping Death Star's for info and being masculine heroic adventurer.
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Jan 13, 2018 01:55
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shout outs to the guy on the last page who said that none of the Star Wars movies showed anybody speaking to R2D2 and understanding him, how brave is it to steadfastly refuse to watch ESB in 2018
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Jan 13, 2018 01:58
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Bleck posted:shout outs to the guy on the last page who said that none of the Star Wars movies showed anybody speaking to R2D2 and understanding him, how brave is it to steadfastly refuse to watch ESB in 2018 I suggest you watch it again. When in the X-wing, Luke get's Artoo's beeps translated to him via text on a screen. Other times, he and other characters (Threepio excepted) only ever respond to Artoo's obvious mood or attitude, not any of his dialogue. One of the main reasons we have Threepio is so people can understand Artoo. This is not complicated. Hansen85 fucked around with this message at 02:09 on Jan 13, 2018 |
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Jan 13, 2018 02:06
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SuperMechagodzilla posted:Weird thoughts. The good thing about George is he's a very distinct character: the throat wattle, the funny voice, the plaid shirts. JJ and Rian Johnson are just like skinny urbane white dudes. Pathetic.
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Jan 13, 2018 02:07
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Trends come and trends go, but you'll never go wrong with flannel. e: Also I would argue J.J. wearing his mom's glasses everywhere is a fairly bold distinctive style. Harime Nui fucked around with this message at 02:25 on Jan 13, 2018 |
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Jan 13, 2018 02:10
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pretend i posted a screencap of luke saying "hey! watch your language!" to R2-D2 from TLJ here not only can luke understand r2 he can tell when he's swearing at him, which is always, because r2 is an rear end in a top hat
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Jan 13, 2018 02:10
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porfiria posted:I mean you can sort of see it, the only real droid characters in any of the movies are 3PO and R2, and God only knows what R2 is thinking. 3PO seems pretty person-y but it's not hard to imagine George saying something weird like, "3PO has human characteristics but he doesn't really grow or change like the humans do. He can't really go against his essential nature." Seriously read that in Lucas voice it sounds plausible to me. Well now we're getting into this really weird space where we're conflating 'character' with how many lines someone gets. But literally a dog can be a character in a film - character is not a matter of how personable or significant to a plot someone is. If you have personhood, you're a character. That little RC mouse-bot that runs screaming when Chewie growls at it is a character. That droid in AotC that angrily knocks the other droid out of the way is a character. They do not act like individuals who are 'slaves to their programming.' They behave just like every other organic character in the films, demonstrating subjectivity, and the ability to make decisions that are either highly interpretive of their 'programming,' or fly right in the face of it. Also, Kay's "deal" in Rogue One is very straightforward: He's an imperial droid who was re-programmed as a rebel, and is caught in the ironic situation where he follows his new programming, but is also aware of how arbitrary it is. Furthermore, he's aware that there is, structurally, no difference between how the rebels see him and how the empire utilized him. He's a very cynical character, like a mix of Threepio and Marvin from The Hitchhiker's Guide.
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Jan 13, 2018 02:11
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ungulateman posted:pretend i posted a screencap of luke saying "hey! watch your language!" to R2-D2 from TLJ here I brought this up in the first place because of that very line. TLJ is literally the first time any of the humans in any of the movies have been able to understand Artoo. Though I suppose you could argue Luke's just assuming Artoo's cursing (because it's a safe bet) and not actually able to translate his beeps and bleeps into actual words. While obviously not important at all to the quality of the movie, that'd be my preferred reading.
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Jan 13, 2018 02:16
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Which is more important: Luke communicating with R2-D2, or Luke interpreting R2-D2's language?
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Jan 13, 2018 02:23
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Bongo Bill posted:Which is more important: Luke communicating with R2-D2, or Luke interpreting R2-D2's language? I like to imagine Luke pretends to knkw what R2 says in the same way whenever you're in a situation where you have to interact with someone but you forgot their name and it's too awkward to ask them.
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Jan 13, 2018 03:01
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BB8 probably has the most protagonism of any of the droids in any of the films, and in TLJ is straight up just a first-order protagonist. The trick that the films have always played is that either the droid speaker has to be a self-effacing defender of slavery -- 3PO -- or they just have to be entirely unintelligible to the audience, and mediated through the other characters in the film. We only ever understand R2 through 3PO or the humans around him; same with BB8. But the same is also true of Chewbacca, and it does not matter if that's an accident. The most interesting thing JJ could do moving forward is make Chewbacca one of the first-order protagonists of Episode 9 and straight-up give him subtitles so he can speak to the audience directly -- while not doing the same for the droids. Crion fucked around with this message at 03:29 on Jan 13, 2018 |
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Jan 13, 2018 03:23
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Hansen85 posted:I brought this up in the first place because of that very line. TLJ is literally the first time any of the humans in any of the movies have been able to understand Artoo. Luke talks to Artoo in his X-Wing in Empire and Jedi like he's carrying on a normal conversation.
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Jan 13, 2018 03:24
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Maxwell Lord posted:Luke talks to Artoo in his X-Wing in Empire and Jedi like he's carrying on a normal conversation.
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Jan 13, 2018 03:25
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I'm pretty sure Luke also talks to R2 on Dagobah outside the X-Wing with full understanding, especially when lecturing him about being leery of creepy swamps and dumbass muppet goblins.
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Jan 13, 2018 03:32
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porfiria posted:The good thing about George is he's a very distinct character: the throat wattle, the funny voice, the plaid shirts. JJ and Rian Johnson are just like skinny urbane white dudes. Pathetic. Rian Johnson is great and cool.
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Jan 13, 2018 03:35
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Never trust a robot, they’re gonna collapse your head and demand rights. They should’ve never been built
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Jan 13, 2018 03:57
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Crion posted:I'm pretty sure Luke also talks to R2 on Dagobah outside the X-Wing with full understanding, especially when lecturing him about being leery of creepy swamps and dumbass muppet goblins. "If you're saying that coming here was a bad idea, I'm beginning to agree with you." The key is the first three words. Luke is not translating droid speak in ESB, although he can usually get a vague sense of it, and of course Artoo understands Luke. But by the time of TLJ why couldn't Luke learn astromech-ese? I don't see how these are mutually contradictory.
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Jan 13, 2018 06:12
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Although that would also make perfect sense if R2 had simply said something like "I have a bad feeling about this."
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Jan 13, 2018 06:41
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I always had the impression that droid binary was just another foreign language: one you could learn with effort and dedication (possibly with much harder difficulty for most humans because of the completely different sorts of sounds involved). If you regularly worked with and communicated with a particular droid, you may pick up some words and phrases and be able to get a general sense of tone even without an invested effort to becoming fluent.
jivjov fucked around with this message at 06:57 on Jan 13, 2018 |
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Jan 13, 2018 06:51
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Actually, R2D2 is a robot and his beeps don't mean anything. The other characters respond to him like he's talking because they are insane.
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Jan 13, 2018 06:55
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Mechafunkzilla posted:Actually, R2D2 is a robot and his beeps don't mean anything. The other characters respond to him like he's talking because they are insane. this, but being a robot doesn't mean he isn't people.
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Jan 13, 2018 09:27
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Edgar Allen Ho posted:Clearly Lucas thought long and hard and made the droid army an analogue for american chattel slavery. Remember when Frederick Douglass drove the world’s first combat sub in its test cruise, checking the efficacy of his torpedos on Mississipi slave barges? I like this logic where a metaphor isn't a situation that has parallels to historical events but is more about humanity's wider relationship with labor and class structure than any one historical situation, it has to be a 1:1 allegory you can fit together with tweezers and glue and hang from the ceiling with fishing line. The model airplane theory of literary interpretation.
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Jan 13, 2018 11:17
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I Before E posted:I like this logic where a metaphor isn't a situation that has parallels to historical events but is more about humanity's wider relationship with labor and class structure than any one historical situation, it has to be a 1:1 allegory you can fit together with tweezers and glue and hang from the ceiling with fishing line. The model airplane theory of literary interpretation. Martman fucked around with this message at 12:41 on Jan 13, 2018 |
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Jan 13, 2018 12:38
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mary had a little clam posted:Yeah, and are we expected to believe that all the aliens on the ship use the same bathrooms to poo poo in?? You'd have to have several bathrooms to accommodate Mon Calamri Shits and C3PO shits and... Ewok shits and whatever. Yet we NEVER get a satisfactory explanation for who shits where. In fact, Johnson is so lazy, he avoids showing making GBS threads altogether! that would be really cool. very zizek, in a good way
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Jan 13, 2018 16:35
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Ema Nymton posted:Maybe I'm missing something, but why is cloning mentioned and then never brought up again in Star Wars? That seems to me like it would be a big deal. No one questions whether anyone is really who they say they are, even though clones are thing. a doppelganger story might be a cool thing in star wars. i love doppelganger stories
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Jan 13, 2018 17:05
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in star wars 1: a new hope, it's basically like rome and the droids are roman slaves and no one talks about it or thinks about it because thats how slaves were treated in rome, most of the time, is my take, on the droid slavery thing. its not like chattel slavery in america, because by that point in history slavery was already seen as way outdated. star wars takes place at a time when slavery is just part of the scenery
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Jan 13, 2018 17:08
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that doesnt make slavery a good thing btw, im just explaining why no one acknowledges it in the movies
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Jan 13, 2018 17:19
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