Bitcoin: no angel investors, only Faustian bargains

The Something Awful Forums > Main > General Bullshit > Bitcoin: no angel investors, only Faustian bargains

Ruggan: Feb 20, 2007; WHAT THAT SMELL LIKE?!

Anybody interested in investing in my new cryptocurrency? Haven�t decided on the name yet. Thinking BitDollar or BitYen.

It�s gonna be a unique blockchain technology. Basically you can earn it by watching my YouTube channel, liking, and subscribing. 10 units will be distributed for every $100 ad dollars I earn.

# ? Jan 13, 2018 07:24

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# ? May 29, 2024 15:24

Slightly Absurd: Mar 22, 2004

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Slightly Absurd fucked around with this message at 13:08 on Jan 13, 2018

# ? Jan 13, 2018 07:26

Slightly Absurd: Mar 22, 2004

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Slightly Absurd fucked around with this message at 13:08 on Jan 13, 2018

# ? Jan 13, 2018 07:27

Slightly Absurd: Mar 22, 2004

....

Slightly Absurd fucked around with this message at 13:08 on Jan 13, 2018

# ? Jan 13, 2018 07:28

Wickerman: Feb 26, 2007; Boom, mothafucka!

I still can't get over the fact that transaction fees for using Bitcoin can be upwards of $50 USD per transaction. Like holy gently caress you're better off day trading!

# ? Jan 13, 2018 08:26

QuarkJets: Sep 8, 2008

french lies posted:

I know what you are trying to get at here but it�s not really correct, or it betrays a very superficial understanding of what the crypto space has grown into. There is something called coin/token economics that act as support for the underlying value (ostensibly, how it pans out in the long term is anyone�s guess). They basically figure out ways the token can hold value. Examples of this is the coin/token giving influence or the rights to services on the network. Ethereum is shifting to a proof of stake model where network participants can stake part of their holdings to get a dividend of ether, in order to validate transactions without resource-intensive proof-of-work operations.

One interesting comparison in this respect is gold. Gold has a few uses in industry and in the production of jewelry, but neither its scarcity or its applications are nearly enough to justify its current value. A lot of the value is purely speculative and comes from a belief that it will hold value in case of hyper-inflation or institutional collapse. Bitcoin is arguably superior in some ways to gold in this respect (divisible, portable, easily transferable, can gain exposure without owning physical asset or gaining exposure to financial institutions) and I think it will take market share from gold in the long term. Gold has been a poo poo investment for many years but if you bought in the nineties you would have done great by now.

For certain niche applications a decentralized economic eco-system and a coin to invest you in that sort of makes sense. While the value of the coins/tokens is almost purely speculative at this point, this is not uncommon for stocks, or any assets for that matter. Buying cheap real-estate in areas that might see an influx of new people down the line is a good example of this that is perhaps more relatable. Part of being an investor is you take risk and get rewarded for that risk if you turn out to be right.

Long and the short of it is, I don�t think the idea of crypto as an asset class is laughable at all. It seems laughable mostly because we associate butts with crazy lolbs. Also, crypto triggers that self-hating nerd gene that all goons have. Crypto was nerd poo poo for years. But it�s becoming a lot more mainstream than many of you seem to realize.

french lies posted:

It�s extremely efficient and also �trustless�. Let�s say you want to pay for something. The smart contract could in theory ensure that the funds are not released until some criterion is fulfilled, in such a way that you for example avoid the seller running off with your funds. This system avoids exposing you to the risk of trusting a third-party to mediate between you.

I guess the current system works well enough in practice for most individuals but what you have to realize is the cost savings and efficiency gains from smart contracts are potentially enormous. You�d be surprised how many people are employed just to keep track of who owns what and who sent what where. The back offices of most major banks and financial institutions will be completely hollowed out once blockchain and smart contracts are fully rolled out.

^^^ The writing of someone who has learned enough to buy into the hype, but hasn't learned enough to understand that the hype is pure bullshit meant to draw in bag holders

Like in what world is a $40 transaction fee plus another hidden $40 electricity cost subsidized by the creation of new bitcoins considered efficient?

# ? Jan 13, 2018 08:39

Waltzing Along: Jun 14, 2008; There's only one
Human race
Many faces
Everybody belongs here

Is it immoral to buy and sell bitcoin?

# ? Jan 13, 2018 09:32

Nessus: Dec 22, 2003; After a Speaker vote, you may be entitled to a valuable coupon or voucher!

Waltzing Along posted:

Is it immoral to buy and sell bitcoin?

Multiple clerical authorities have declared that Bitcoin is haram.

# ? Jan 13, 2018 09:57

Party Boat: Nov 1, 2007; where did that other dog come from

who is he

Do smart contracts offer any kind of advantage for businesses over, say, a dynamic purchasing system to establish a contract framework? DPS is pretty common in the public sector and as far as I can tell offers all the benefits of smart contracts with the added bonus of not having to gently caress around with blockchain.

# ? Jan 13, 2018 10:41

junan_paalla: Dec 29, 2009; Seriously, do drugs

QuarkJets posted:

^^^ The writing of someone who has learned enough to buy into the hype, but hasn't learned enough to understand that the hype is pure bullshit meant to draw in bag holders

Like in what world is a $40 transaction fee plus another hidden $40 electricity cost subsidized by the creation of new bitcoins considered efficient?

But think of all the real-world applications that have popped up in the past 9 years! Life is so much better because of blockchain! Look at all the ~~different color internet pogs~~ useful applications of blockchain and the promises they've delivered on!

# ? Jan 13, 2018 10:44

Moon Atari: Dec 26, 2010

Waltzing Along posted:

Is it immoral to buy and sell bitcoin?

I genuinely believe so.

# ? Jan 13, 2018 10:48

jimmyjams: Jan 10, 2001; King Kong of Megadongs
Gobblin' them mega schlongs
Makin' sure they mega long
Stroke' 'em if they mega strong

shart contracts

# ? Jan 13, 2018 11:52

bobfather: Sep 20, 2001; I will analyze your nervous system for beer money

Moon Atari posted:

I genuinely believe so.

Buying it is not immoral. I mean, you�re the one getting screwed in that transaction.

Selling it, while also knowing that the person you�re selling to is a greater fool is pretty much the definition of moral bankruptcy.

# ? Jan 13, 2018 12:13

Moxxis Endowment: Dec 11, 2017; by Nyc_Tattoo

Bitcoin is broken, I think we can all agree on that. If a broken Bitcoin is worth $14,000, how much will it be worth after they fix it? :smuggo:

# ? Jan 13, 2018 13:20

100 HOGS AGREE: Oct 13, 2007; Grimey Drawer

instead of buying bitcoins i just play those dumb idle incremental games that are all over the internet. you still get to watch numbers go up and waste energy so it�s nearly as good.

In fact it�s better because the numbers only go down if you want them to, instead of randomly and without notice

# ? Jan 13, 2018 14:06

Mumpy Puffinz: Aug 11, 2008; Nap Ghost

100 HOGS AGREE posted:

instead of buying bitcoins i just play those dumb idle incremental games that are all over the internet. you still get to watch numbers go up and waste energy so it�s nearly as good.

In fact it�s better because the numbers only go down if you want them to, instead of randomly and without notice

101 hogs agree

# ? Jan 13, 2018 14:20

Pochoclo: Feb 4, 2008; No...; Clapping Larry

bobfather posted:

Buying it is not immoral.

Actually it is because you're actively, heavily contributing to climate change and energy scarcity for internet pogs.

# ? Jan 13, 2018 15:28

Andy Dufresne: Aug 4, 2010; The only good race pace is suicide pace, and today looks like a good day to die

french lies posted:

If a manager can use smart contracts to save on cost he/she will be increasing the net income of the company and thereby the amount of money that can be paid out to shareholders in the form of dividends or buybacks. Most managers are incentivized through their compensation plan to maximize shareholder value, and therefore reducing costs is a problem to them which smart contracts can plausibly help solve.

This is the clearest example yet of you not understanding how small companies work, let alone large institutions. You are not a lot different than a green fresh out of college Salesforce sales associate.

# ? Jan 13, 2018 15:30

poverty goat: Feb 15, 2004

Pochoclo posted:

Actually it is because you're actively, heavily contributing to climate change and energy scarcity for internet pogs.

can you certify that this post is carbon neutral

# ? Jan 13, 2018 15:35

Andy Dufresne: Aug 4, 2010; The only good race pace is suicide pace, and today looks like a good day to die

Let's review the last several pages.

thread: lol bitcoin
french lies: haha guys yeah! But the technology is revolutionary, I could see it slowing down from 100x growth to 10x growth but it's going up up uP!
thread: whose gonna use this poo poo
french lies: institutions! Like, institutional institutions. Smart contracts.
thread: ok so who's using these things? how can it be valued so high when nobody is using them
french lies: well a manager should use them to improve shareholder value. 10x in 2018!

# ? Jan 13, 2018 15:45

Waltzing Along: Jun 14, 2008; There's only one
Human race
Many faces
Everybody belongs here

bobfather posted:

Buying it is not immoral. I mean, you�re the one getting screwed in that transaction.

Selling it, while also knowing that the person you�re selling to is a greater fool is pretty much the definition of moral bankruptcy.

That's what I was getting at.

I finally decided on the buttcoin mode of thought when I realized how lovely the whole game is.

# ? Jan 13, 2018 15:56

Drav: Jul 23, 2002; We've come a long way since that day, and we will never look back at the faded silhouette.

Moxxis Endowment posted:

Bitcoin is broken, I think we can all agree on that. If a broken Bitcoin is worth $14,000, how much will it be worth after they fix it?

Is RailBlocks a fix?

# ? Jan 13, 2018 15:58

Adar: Jul 27, 2001

bobfather posted:

Buying it is not immoral. I mean, you’re the one getting screwed in that transaction.

Selling it, while also knowing that the person you’re selling to is a greater fool is pretty much the definition of moral bankruptcy.

Is playing poker for real money immoral?

How about betting on sports?

How about betting on sports in an office pool where you're the only one who pays attention to the games?

# ? Jan 13, 2018 17:12

COMRADES: Apr 3, 2017; by LITERALLY AN ADMIN

Adar posted:

Is playing poker for real money immoral?

How about betting on sports?

How about betting on sports in an office pool where you're the only one who pays attention to the games?

Do any of these require more electricity than a person would reasonably use in a year and/or help launder money for child pornographers?

# ? Jan 13, 2018 17:15

Slightly Absurd: Mar 22, 2004

is playing poker for real money more moral than working 80 hours a week to support a couple kids by yourself?

# ? Jan 13, 2018 17:18

Harold Fjord: Jan 3, 2004

What do the processes running on my gfx card that make a bitcoin exist actually do? Is that information being processed for something? Could it be used to fold proteins instead while generating cryptocurrency?

Adar posted:

Is playing poker for real money immoral?

How about betting on sports?

How about betting on sports in an office pool where you're the only one who pays attention to the games?

Bourgeoisie marks only please, comrade.

Harold Fjord fucked around with this message at 18:30 on Jan 13, 2018

# ? Jan 13, 2018 18:27

Pochoclo: Feb 4, 2008; No...; Clapping Larry

Nevvy Z posted:

What do the processes running on my gfx card that make a bitcoin exist actually do? Is that information being processed for something? Could it be used to fold proteins instead while generating cryptocurrency?

Basically brute-force calculate SHA-256 until a hash comes out that has a certain minimum number of zeros in front.
It only serves to prove that you spent a lot of time calculating useless hashes.
No that information cannot be used for anything as it is.

But if you'd put your whizbang hashing computer on the folding@home network or something like that then it'd actually be useful because gfx cards are good at floating-point operations which is what you need for protein folding

Pochoclo fucked around with this message at 19:12 on Jan 13, 2018

# ? Jan 13, 2018 19:05

Comfy Fleece Sweater: Apr 2, 2013; You see, but you do not observe.

Pochoclo posted:

Basically brute-force calculate SHA-256 until a hash comes out that has a certain minimum number of zeros in front.
It only serves to prove that you spent a lot of time calculating useless hashes.
No that information cannot be used for anything as it is.

But if you'd put your whizbang hashing computer on the folding@home network or something like that then it'd actually be useful because gfx cards are good at floating-point operations which is what you need for protein folding

Solving cancer? Sheeeeit, what am I gonna do with that

# ? Jan 13, 2018 19:24

Ccs: Feb 25, 2011

Andy Dufresne posted:

I'm really not trying to be an rear end and big-time you, but you say "5% of what you own" like that's not a significant amount of money. For someone in their 30s who has been saving appropriately that's $10k+, for someone near retirement that's closer to $100k.

I don't think you should be giving investment advice at all.

You think 5% of most people's savings near retirement is 100k? Most Americans only have $100,000 saved by retirement.

# ? Jan 13, 2018 19:26

zedprime: Jun 9, 2007; yospos

Party Boat posted:

Do smart contracts offer any kind of advantage for businesses over, say, a dynamic purchasing system to establish a contract framework? DPS is pretty common in the public sector and as far as I can tell offers all the benefits of smart contracts with the added bonus of not having to gently caress around with blockchain.

In reality the use case for stuff like this is dropping the DPS ledger into a merkle tree that allows privileged access to transaction data depending on your held credentials. The difference from traditional credential systems being its theoretically easier to trust the software so that a seller or a legal entity knows they aren't getting the wool pulled over their eyes because the contracting authority owns the hardware and can control the software. Basically if its going to have value its in being able to convince your outside participants (sellers, auditors, etc.) of the ACID of your ledger while still securing it to standards required by law and internal policy.

Notice how it doesn't touch a publicly owned blockchain.

# ? Jan 13, 2018 19:28

Nessus: Dec 22, 2003; After a Speaker vote, you may be entitled to a valuable coupon or voucher!

zedprime posted:

In reality the use case for stuff like this is dropping the DPS ledger into a merkle tree that allows privileged access to transaction data depending on your held credentials. The difference from traditional credential systems being its theoretically easier to trust the software so that a seller or a legal entity knows they aren't getting the wool pulled over their eyes because the contracting authority owns the hardware and can control the software. Basically if its going to have value its in being able to convince your outside participants (sellers, auditors, etc.) of the ACID of your ledger while still securing it to standards required by law and internal policy.

Notice how it doesn't touch a publicly owned blockchain.

This is an exciting concept! Now how can we rejigger it so that it inflates the value of my butts.

# ? Jan 13, 2018 21:20

meat police: Nov 14, 2015

Pochoclo posted:

Basically brute-force calculate SHA-256 until a hash comes out that has a certain minimum number of zeros in front.
It only serves to prove that you spent a lot of time calculating useless hashes.
No that information cannot be used for anything as it is.

But if you'd put your whizbang hashing computer on the folding@home network or something like that then it'd actually be useful because gfx cards are good at floating-point operations which is what you need for protein folding

How much can I get for a CancerCoin?

# ? Jan 13, 2018 21:56

divabot: Jun 17, 2015; A polite little mouse!

100 HOGS AGREE posted:

instead of buying bitcoins i just play those dumb idle incremental games that are all over the internet. you still get to watch numbers go up and waste energy so it�s nearly as good.

In fact it�s better because the numbers only go down if you want them to, instead of randomly and without notice

Universal Paperclips, right,, but on the blockchain,,,

# ? Jan 13, 2018 21:56

100 HOGS AGREE: Oct 13, 2007; Grimey Drawer

divabot posted:

Universal Paperclips, right,, but on the blockchain,,,

oh my god you've cracked it

# ? Jan 13, 2018 22:06

jimmyjams: Jan 10, 2001; King Kong of Megadongs
Gobblin' them mega schlongs
Makin' sure they mega long
Stroke' 'em if they mega strong

cockchain

# ? Jan 13, 2018 22:18

Lime Tonics: Nov 7, 2015; by FactsAreUseless

A recent poll shows that nearly one-fifth of all Bitcoin buyers are using credit cards to fund their investments, likely paying hefty fees for the privilege. A large portion of those buyers then carry the balance instead of paying their cards off, implying that they�re highly leveraged � but confident that their investments will grow in value.

http://fortune.com/2018/01/13/credit-cards-to-buy-bitcoin/

Of those, 22.13% did not pay off their credit card balances. Nearly 90% of those planned to pay off the balances by selling their Bitcoin investments, implying a firm faith that the cryptocurrency�s price would continue rising.

smart.

# ? Jan 13, 2018 22:20

Andy Dufresne: Aug 4, 2010; The only good race pace is suicide pace, and today looks like a good day to die

Ccs posted:

You think 5% of most people's savings near retirement is 100k? Most Americans only have $100,000 saved by retirement.

Are you trying to make a point?

# ? Jan 13, 2018 22:59

AreWeDrunkYet: Jul 8, 2006

100 HOGS AGREE posted:

instead of buying bitcoins i just play those dumb idle incremental games that are all over the internet. you still get to watch numbers go up and waste energy so it�s nearly as good.

In fact it�s better because the numbers only go down if you want them to, instead of randomly and without notice

If a bunch of these aren't backdoor Bitcoin miners for the developers, I would be disappointed.

# ? Jan 13, 2018 23:14

QuarkJets: Sep 8, 2008

Lime Tonics posted:

A recent poll shows that nearly one-fifth of all Bitcoin buyers are using credit cards to fund their investments, likely paying hefty fees for the privilege. A large portion of those buyers then carry the balance instead of paying their cards off, implying that they’re highly leveraged – but confident that their investments will grow in value.

http://fortune.com/2018/01/13/credit-cards-to-buy-bitcoin/

Of those, 22.13% did not pay off their credit card balances. Nearly 90% of those planned to pay off the balances by selling their Bitcoin investments, implying a firm faith that the cryptocurrency’s price would continue rising.

smart.

Are the remaining 10% planning to hold their CC balances indefinitely, eventually declaring bankruptcy and trying to hide their bitcoins from debt collectors? I wonder if the industry has already prepared for this

# ? Jan 14, 2018 00:34

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# ? May 29, 2024 15:24

Pochoclo: Feb 4, 2008; No...; Clapping Larry

meat police posted:

How much can I get for a CancerCoin?

Maybe your life someday

# ? Jan 14, 2018 00:41

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