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VideoGameVet posted:I have to drive Carlsbad -> LA and back (the same day) more than I like (trains don't run late hours). The Soul EV currently has a dc fast charge port and is supposedly changing to CCS. I can’t imagine the Niro EV won’t have CCS.
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Jan 13, 2018 02:29
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kill me now posted:The hybrid Niro that is out now is a real nice compact hybrid crossover. I have no doubt the EV version will be a very nice vehicle as well. I just hope they are as close to that 238mi mark as possible. The previous reports were that it would get a 50kwh battery which would put it at around 185mi. Not bad but not nearly as good as 238 Saw this: The Niro EV Concept is powered by a next-generation electric vehicle powertrain with a high-capacity 64 kWh lithium-polymer battery pack, paired with a powerful 150 kW electric motor.
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Jan 13, 2018 04:31
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Three Olives posted:The Audi E-Tron and Jaguar I-PACE are AWD, Audi with three motors, Jaguar with 2. Granted they are not out yet but I think both are supposed to have limited availability by fall. Ahh cool, though I was hoping for more small car size. Tesla's the only one for now (once they start producing AWD model 3s of course). Admittedly it's a niche for now.
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Jan 13, 2018 04:52
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How are Bolt second hand prices doing in the US? It has fallen quite hard off the radar, I'm wondering if the prices might as well. Not so far in Norway at least, but maybe in a year or so.
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Jan 13, 2018 08:51
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Ola posted:How are Bolt second hand prices doing in the US? It has fallen quite hard off the radar, I'm wondering if the prices might as well. Not so far in Norway at least, but maybe in a year or so. I don't think it has really been out long enough to tell. The cheapest used cars on cars.com are around 28 grand, and there are new ones listed at $29k. 
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Jan 13, 2018 09:06
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Trash Trick posted:Is there another thread discussing autonomous stuff here? Sorry if I am blind. Wondering if there's any discussion of the control-less bolt that GM just announced. I am not aware of one, but this is just one step beyond Google's vans driving around Phoenix without a safety driver. It's definitely not something that's going to be sold anytime soon.
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Jan 13, 2018 15:43
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Frinkahedron posted:I am not aware of one, but this is just one step beyond Google's vans driving around Phoenix without a safety driver. It's definitely not something that's going to be sold anytime soon. I don't think they will be for sale, but probably an option for Lyft or Maven in specific geofenced areas of specific cities. I think very soon the appliance car market will be leveled by subscriptions to manufacturers ride-sharing services. The price of the service will be advertised against the cost and inconvenience of refueling, insuring, maintaining, and parking your own vehicle. I think the transition from traffic to driver free zones to car free zones in the densest part of a lot of cities will happen pretty quickly.
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Jan 13, 2018 16:23
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Ola posted:How are Bolt second hand prices doing in the US? Most of what I see now are ones where the folks couldn't pay the lease, so they're essentially priced as new with, like, $800 taken off. If its anything like the rest of the EVs, we'll be looking at $16k used
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Jan 13, 2018 17:10
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Powershift posted:I think the transition from traffic to driver free zones to car free zones in the densest part of a lot of cities will happen pretty quickly. I still think we need to get past people liking to keep things in their car (even ignoring car seats). My car is relatively sparse, but I have: sunglasses, headphones for calls, gum, glasses cleaner, money to give panhandlers, pen and paper, charging cables for phones (long enough to reach back seat), advil, an umbrella, reusable shopping bags, and an emergency kit. Plus my phone is Bluetooth paired. Some of that can come standard, but in general it’s going to feel like taking a taxi instead of being driven in my car.
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Jan 13, 2018 17:20
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I’ve already switched to Uber for going out, and work will be easy enough as I’ll just keep everything in my gym bag and briefcase. What’s going to seriously slow adoption of a pure subscription model is families. I have four kids, including two toddlers. We have supplies in every one of our cars on top of the ton of poo poo we bring with us specifically for the outing. I don’t see driver free city centers any time soon, but who knows. I personally think we are a good 20 years out.
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Jan 13, 2018 17:33
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Subjunctive posted:I still think we need to get past people liking to keep things in their car (even ignoring car seats). Get a purse 
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Jan 13, 2018 17:35
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eyebeem posted:I’ve already switched to Uber for going out, and work will be easy enough as I’ll just keep everything in my gym bag and briefcase. You are closer to it than the others who think it’s right around the corner. GM is being pretty aggressive with 2019 as its date (but we don’t think that’s proper deployment, just more testing). For the first five years at least, these vehicles will be owned and operated by OEMs as fleets so they can self-insure, and use them until they fall apart. But a lot of OEMs are pushing back their timetables from the 2021 we kept hearing a couple of years ago. Volvo is pushing back their DriveMe program until 2019, and that’s just meant to gather data on how people would use AVs. I think it would be 2040 before we see city centers banning human drivers entirely, and there will be a mixed fleet for a lot longer than most evangelists will have you believe.
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Jan 13, 2018 17:41
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I think EVs will have their place, but the business model of ride-hailing autonomous vehicles? I wonder. You take your family of four on a ride in one and the youngest kid pukes in the back seat. What happens? Are all the vehicles being video recorded? How does the car know that it needs to go somewhere to get cleaned? I just have these thoughts of gross cum- and puke-stained autonomous shitboxes out there. I hope I'm wrong.
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Jan 13, 2018 18:01
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Your car shows up, it's gross, you press the "someone dun hosed this car up" button on the app. Car goes to get cleaned, you get a new one hailed, and the previous rider gets charged for the cleanup.
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Jan 13, 2018 19:28
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bull3964 posted:Your car shows up, it's gross, you press the "someone dun hosed this car up" button on the app. Car goes to get cleaned, you get a new one hailed, and the previous rider gets charged for the cleanup.
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Jan 13, 2018 22:06
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This review seems basically what I expected: the core experience of driving the car is nice, but the central screen is weird and there are a ton of small fit-and-finish problems that can't be easily fixed.
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Jan 14, 2018 00:03
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eyebeem posted:I’ve already switched to Uber for going out, and work will be easy enough as I’ll just keep everything in my gym bag and briefcase. I've moved mostly past the point of needing anything specific in the car for the kid, aside from the car seat itself. But even that seems like a big hurdle. I don't want to haul a car seat into work because we used an autonomous ride hailing service to get there.
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Jan 14, 2018 01:44
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Seems like you'd just order a car with a carseat already installed. But yeah, moving families around does sound like one of the trickier problems to solve for a hypothetical autonomous car rental system.
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Jan 14, 2018 01:52
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TooMuchAbstraction posted:Seems like you'd just order a car with a carseat already installed. But yeah, moving families around does sound like one of the trickier problems to solve for a hypothetical autonomous car rental system. If there are any hypothetical issues with car cleanliness, they would be an order of magnitude larger for a baby carseat. Yeuck.
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Jan 14, 2018 02:06
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Problem then is that car seats vary based on the size of the kid, and usually have some pain in the dick adjustment beyond that to make it actually fit. At least she's almost big enough to just use a booster, and those are something that is pretty much one side fits most.
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Jan 14, 2018 02:08
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huh wow it's almost like shared car ownership is something that has been repeatedly attempted literally since the car was invented and it never really works on a large scale because people like to own their own vehicle if they have the option and merely adding "the car drives itself" to the equation doesn't in any way address the fundamental problems with the concept
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Jan 14, 2018 02:09
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Solution: People with kids should be locked in their homes until the child is old enough to no longer require a car seat. More seriously, a buddy with a ~4y/o daughter was talking new cars with me awhile ago (he was thinking about getting a BMW M2, ended up with a CTS-V,) and I mentioned that she wouldn’t be in a car seat for much longer, so he could at least consider coupes. Apparently, the guidance on that has gone way, WAY the gently caress up? Like, car seat till they’re loving twelve? What the gently caress?
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Jan 14, 2018 02:13
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IOwnCalculus posted:I've moved mostly past the point of needing anything specific in the car for the kid, aside from the car seat itself. But even that seems like a big hurdle. I don't want to haul a car seat into work because we used an autonomous ride hailing service to get there. We didn’t own a car until our kid was 4yo, but I didn’t take her to work so I didn’t have that problem. I could get that car seat in and out like a champ. TooMuchAbstraction posted:Seems like you'd just order a car with a carseat already installed Many parents aren’t going to trust another’s choice of car seat, and installing it for someone else is a liability mess. Cab drivers won’t do it, hospitals won’t do it, car rental companies won’t do it. MrYenko posted:Apparently, the guidance on that has gone way, WAY the gently caress up? Like, car seat till they’re loving twelve? What the gently caress? Laws and guidance are usually car seat until ~4, booster until ~8, and back seat (but no special seat) until 12. Mostly it’s been the same since 2000 or so, with some idiot states straggling and permitting 4yo kids to be out of a car seat.
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Jan 14, 2018 02:45
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Subjunctive posted:Laws and guidance are usually car seat until ~4, booster until ~8, and back seat (but no special seat) until 12. Mostly it’s been the same since 2000 or so, with some idiot states straggling and permitting 4yo kids to be out of a car seat. I remember my grandfather forbidding me from using a seat belt when he drove me home from kindergarten one day in the front seat of his 73 Nova. He thought I didn't trust his driving.
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Jan 14, 2018 03:20
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This is a decent review, the one a few pages ago was trash.
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Jan 14, 2018 03:39
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Roadie posted:This review seems basically what I expected: the core experience of driving the car is nice, but the central screen is weird and there are a ton of small fit-and-finish problems that can't be easily fixed. That has me optimistic for the Model Y. I was hoping for that to be my next car, at least if they can make self-driving available by the time my 2010 Prius starts wearing out. FilthyImp posted:Most of what I see now are ones where the folks couldn't pay the lease, so they're essentially priced as new with, like, $800 taken off. In my experience, most used cars less than 3 years old are priced so close to new that they're hardly cost effective. Sagebrush posted:huh wow it's almost like shared car ownership is something that has been repeatedly attempted literally since the car was invented and it never really works on a large scale because people like to own their own vehicle if they have the option and merely adding "the car drives itself" to the equation doesn't in any way address the fundamental problems with the concept Self-driving does address at least some of the worst inconveniences with car sharing (namely, having to travel from your home to where the cars are kept, and back again when you're done). That might not be enough to displace even a majority of private ownership, but it would be enough to make car sharing reasonably practical for many people. MrYenko posted:Solution: People with kids should be locked in their homes until the child is old enough to no longer require a car seat. Or maybe anyone too poor to easily afford a car should consider limiting themselves to one kid.
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Jan 14, 2018 04:56
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Cockmaster posted:In my experience, most used cars less than 3 years old are priced so close to new that they're hardly cost effective. This has not been the case with all of the insanely cheap to lease EVs that have come out in various states the last few years.
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Jan 14, 2018 05:11
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Cockmaster posted:In my experience, most used cars less than 3 years old are priced so close to new that they're hardly cost effective. I wish someone had told me that when I sold my year-old Model S at 30% off new.
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Jan 14, 2018 05:18
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Subjunctive posted:We didn’t own a car until our kid was 4yo, but I didn’t take her to work so I didn’t have that problem. I could get that car seat in and out like a champ. I don't take her to work, but her school is right along my route there, and also way too far from home to stop back there and leave the seat. I do still think that autonomous ride-sharing could be a big improvement over car ownership for a lot of people. It might not fully replace it, but if it worked out to be cheaper to use said service than own a newer car, then I could see it making more sense to use it for most driving and push ownership towards more niche needs.
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Jan 14, 2018 16:20
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Arkane posted:My Model 3 decision is probably about a month away? (non-tesla owner, but west coast, and near the front of the line), and I'm pretty torn on it. Obviously it is a very cool car that I will likely love to drive. Your decision might be sooner than you think. I’m in a similar situation (not a prior owner, West Coast, etc.) and have already picked up my car. It really depends on how long you’re willing or able to wait. If cost is an issue, I would recommend waiting until more baseline options are available, as those are likely to be available within a year. I asked a couple of salespeople about future leasing options and though I got no real answers, my guess is that leasing options are probably not going to be available this year. What build quality complaints are you concerned about? If you’re concerned that a new car is going to surpassed and outdated in an ownership lifetime (i.e. 10 years), that probability is basically 100%. Even old-school manufacturers make huge improvements in their 2/3 and 5 year update cycles. In the EV and autonomous driving technological fronts this is going to be even more noticeably the case. Buy a new car the same way you’d think about buying a new top-line iPhone or Android. Like clockwork there’s going to be a better model in 12 months. It sucks, but this is a great thing about consuming in a market that innovates.
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Jan 14, 2018 16:56
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You have to use a car seat in a taxi in loving Florida now. Sure it is safer but what a pain in the dick. Pretty sure the back seat of a panther is safer then an APC.
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Jan 14, 2018 17:01
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Elephanthead posted:You have to use a car seat in a taxi in loving Florida now. Sure it is safer but what a pain in the dick. Pretty sure the back seat of a panther is safer then an APC. Body on frame vehicles with their origins in the 70s are known for being super safe.
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Jan 14, 2018 17:04
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now you hit a nice crumple zone car not another body on frame death machine.
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Jan 14, 2018 17:16
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Subjunctive posted:I wish someone had told me that when I sold my year-old Model S at 30% off new. Well, I was referring to gasoline cars - I had always assumed that rapid EV depreciation was mostly due to newer technology coming out, whereas the Bolt hasn't been around long enough for that to happen to it (though who knows what'll happen when Tesla sorts out Model 3 production).
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Jan 14, 2018 17:40
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Cockmaster posted:Well, I was referring to gasoline cars - I had always assumed that rapid EV depreciation was mostly due to newer technology coming out, whereas the Bolt hasn't been around long enough for that to happen to it (though who knows what'll happen when Tesla sorts out Model 3 production). I got my 2016 Miata that had an original MSRP of ~$32,500 for $21,995 with under 10k on the clock I got my 2007 Magnum SRT8 that has an original MSRP of $42k for $33k with 3k mileage in 2007 I got my 2011 Corvette Grand Sport with an original MSRP of $55,740 for $42,895 with 7k miles in 2012 What are you talking about.
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Jan 14, 2018 18:01
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kill me now posted:I got my 2016 Miata that had an original MSRP of ~$32,500 for $21,995 with under 10k on the clock brb, getting a Miata.
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Jan 14, 2018 18:10
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Hackjack posted:Your decision might be sooner than you think. I’m in a similar situation (not a prior owner, West Coast, etc.) and have already picked up my car. With any other OEM you’d be right but Tesla doesn’t bother with model years and just makes incremental improvements as and when. If it’s a software thing they’ll roll it out to everyone. If it’s a hardware change obviously that doesn’t get sent to existing owners. However, to get to his concerns, it’s a brand new car from a company that’s known to have teething troubles...
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Jan 14, 2018 18:33
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Cockmaster posted:Well, I was referring to gasoline cars - I had always assumed that rapid EV depreciation was mostly due to newer technology coming out, whereas the Bolt hasn't been around long enough for that to happen to it (though who knows what'll happen when Tesla sorts out Model 3 production). EVs are not depreciating that badly. I mean they are horribly off of MSRP but my understanding is Leafs basically never sold for MSRP and that was before you got to the minimum in $7,500 in federal tax incentives and various state and local incentives, various grants and whatever losses were being eaten by the manufacturers on leases. I forgot where I saw it but someone did all the math with various incentives etc and EVs are depreciating at a pretty much the higher end of average. Not great but hardly the financial albatrosses they look like.
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Jan 14, 2018 20:24
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drgitlin posted:With any other OEM you’d be right but Tesla doesn’t bother with model years and just makes incremental improvements as and when. If it’s a software thing they’ll roll it out to everyone. If it’s a hardware change obviously that doesn’t get sent to existing owners. Shouldn’t that make the point more valid? The faster and more frequent changes occur, the more quickly a car that’s the most up to date will lose that status of newest and best. It feels bad, but it’s something every new car (or phone, computer, home appliance etc.) owner/buyer will go through at some point. Which concerns? The build quality concerns? Yes, I agree, which is why I want to find out more.
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Jan 14, 2018 21:56
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IOwnCalculus posted:I don't take her to work, but her school is right along my route there, and also way too far from home to stop back there and leave the seat. I agree. I live in a city with access to car-sharing services (Reach Now (BMW) and Car2Go (Daimler). The most I've had to walk to a car is about 4 minutes from my house, so this was not a huge burden, and I think a pretty close comparator to an autonomous car picking you up. Given where I live, and my standard commute, it was actually cost neutral to use these as a commuting tool (they park for free on city streets, which is a significant cost savings for me). We were in the market for a new car (the 98 civic had seen better days) and we really needed to consider whether to keep having 2 cars, or to down size to one. We have 2 kids (5 and 2 yo.), so the car seat dilemma was one of the primary problems. I think when my oldest can do a booster, we'll likely go to one car, and use the car sharing as the secondary 'car'. Boosters are pretty easy to pack and install, whereas car seats are a giant pain, especially when they outgrow LATCH. The benefits of autonomous only increase the benefits, as you wouldn't even need cost center of city parking, or require city density to make it work from a fleet perspective. I think if these become real, there are lots of use cases that will reduce car ownership, even if they don't eliminate it. In my case, the reduction of cars as families age is a potentially significant one.
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Jan 14, 2018 22:38
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