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Shorty headers, which really aren't much better. And yeah these guys are highly rated, especially for the money.
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Dec 27, 2017 21:47
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That's loving nuts. They're $300+ cheaper than the cheapest swap headers at Summit. They're officially on The List. Edit: To paint a picture here, for an equivalent header, (full-length, stainless, 1-7/8" primaries), I would have to drop $918 on a pair of Hooker Blackhearts. Please post your thoughts on yours when they show up. Boaz MacPhereson fucked around with this message at 21:59 on Dec 27, 2017 |
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Dec 27, 2017 21:52
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Shipping already updated and they might be here as soon as Friday, so I definitely will. They've got a very long thread going at LS1tech with largely happy customers. The only negative one I saw was a guy who was apparently upset that the first option they offered him was to credit him some of his money back so he could have a local shop straighten the collector back out. It sounds like they're having them made overseas but they're handling all of the shipping, customer service, and presumably QC here in the US. Even if it doesn't flow as well as a set of Kooks or Stainless Works, the money saved over that will buy a lot of other parts to make up the difference and more. That's enough to buy a cam, intake manifold, and throttle body.
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Dec 27, 2017 22:47
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A box appears! One of the mounting flanges did break through the cardboard, but otherwise it got here without any drama.      The only shipping damage, on the mounting flange that poked through - a few seconds with a file should knock this off.  I'm pretty drat stoked. Just need to wait for the ACDelco MLS gaskets to show up tomorrow.
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Dec 30, 2017 04:07
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Daaaaang those look pretty sharp. I'm hoping for lots of pics during the install.
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Dec 30, 2017 04:16
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Spent some time taking things apart today and swearing at the shop that did some of this work for me 12 years ago Driver's side before doing anything.  Passenger side.  Driver's coil packs removed.  Yes, all of those grounds were stacked on one stud holding the coil rail to the valvecover. And yes, I'm going to be doing something about that fuel line.  Much swearing later, the exhaust itself is out. Yes, it's one giant welded up piece. Yes, one of the three bolts on the driver's side had clearly seized before it was fully torqued, allowing a significant exhaust leak. And yes.. one of the passenger bolts was a metric bolt stuffed into a 3/8" threaded hole.   The bolt that had seized on the driver's side required me to pull the oil pressure sender to get a clear shot at it. The head snapped off which is fine because I'm just going to sell these headers for whatever I can get. Ordered a new $2 gasket since at that price it's not worth worrying about whether or not to trust it.  Staring back up at the header.  Staring up at the passenger side. Hey, wait, is that the sender for the water temperature gauge?  It is. Apparently being unwilling or unable to find a proper adapter, he drilled and tapped a bolt (all cockeyed) instead. This explains why my dashboard gauge reads so much higher than the OBDII data (which has its own sensor in the front of the driver's head). Ordered the proper Autometer adapter (ATM-2277) and shorter sending unit (ATM-2259).  Passenger side with the header removed. Not photographed, but apparently I have some miraculous valvecover gasket. After I removed the driver's coil pack, I noticed that the rearmost bolt was sitting at an angle, and apparently had no real engagement. I removed it and noticed a few aluminum shavings on it so I'm going to pull the cover and make sure there's no metal waiting to gently caress up my engine. I don't know how it hasn't been pissing oil with only 3/4 of the valvecover held down. On the fuel system side, I'm basically taking a page out of BoostCreep's setup and redoing the line from the output of the filter/regulator on. It looks like there's some adapter to some hardline, a compression fitting of some sort, a stub of hardline with a 3/8" quick connect fitting, and then the rubber hose with two quick connect fittings from that hardline up to the fuel rail. I'm getting a fitting to convert the output of the filter/regulator and the input of the fuel rail both to AN-6, a few feet of hose, and a couple of AN-6 hose ends (one straight, one 90). I'm probably going to route it along the center tunnel before kicking back over to the framerail where the filter/regulator is mounted. I'm also going to wrap parts of it in some heat shielding from Summit, along with some wires on the passenger side. The header flange bolts all came out smoothly enough, but still sticky enough that I don't want to trust them. Got a new set of bolts coming. The driver's side header refused to give up its O2 sensor and I damaged it in the process. Likewise I banged up some of the spark plugs on the passenger side. Unrelated, I also noticed that the outer tie rod ends have split boots and need to be replaced. Proof that project cars are never done, and "little" things like this add up really loving quickly. I'm slightly bummed because I took Tuesday off next week and was kinda hoping to be able to get it into an exhaust shop then, but I won't have the rest of the parts even in hand by then. I did test-fit the driver's side header. Has to go in from the bottom but it looks like it pretty much pops right into place. Haven't tried passenger side yet.
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Dec 31, 2017 08:14
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Those grounds, and that temp sending unit, are making my eye twitch... badly. The fuel line being that close to the header is just a whole other level of 
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Dec 31, 2017 09:30
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You can't find good people these days... Not suprising because which good people would want to do it for gently caress all pay and stick around for years to get experience? The good ones often move on to management or buy their own shop and eventually get off the tools to grow their business, or move to another career. It's hard enough in Australia where the pay is higher (still the lowest of all trades though). I can imagine it's worse for the chump change US wages and book time in the US.
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Dec 31, 2017 10:20
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Keep in mind that this is poo poo that has apparently worked well enough for a decade, but... yeah.
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Dec 31, 2017 15:37
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This kind of worksmanship is all over Sloppy Mechanics FB page (not Denmah's content though) but those are $250 LQ4s and $100 4L60Es. I'd have been pissed at the work on an LS1 10 years ago when everything was ten times the price.
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Dec 31, 2017 18:30
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I work with alot of those motors and the photos were trigger city. To be fair when it was done things werent what they are today. Doesnt excuse the rear end in a top hat or assholes for half assing every thing. Did they twist the fuel line before attaching it? it looks like a pigs tail almost. Glad to see that thing is finally getting the treatment it deserves.
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Dec 31, 2017 20:54
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I think that's literally the stock soft line that links the fuel rail to the fuel feed from the fourthgen the engine came out of. It has quick connect fittings on both ends so I don't think it would hold any twist beyond the factory formed bends. And yeah, there was fuckall for swap parts available then - even the motor mount adapter plates had to be fabricated at the time. But some of this poo poo goes well past that and into lazy / stupid. I knew the guy he had working on wiring was a dipshit, but I didn't realize he'd hosed up so much of the mechanical bits too.
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Dec 31, 2017 21:40
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Box from Summit showed up today. Header bolts (technically for a 4.6 mod motor, exact same thread and length as LS bolts but costs less for 16 than a LS labeled pack of 12), fuel hose and fittings, heat shield for the fuel hose and some wiring, and the new sender and adapter for the temperature gauge. Me: if I drain the radiator, surely enough coolant will drain from the engine so that it doesn't come flooding out of the head! Also me, right after pulling the old sender: Nope Since the dipstick tube is out of the engine, I figure there's good odds I managed to dump some coolant in the oil. Left myself a note to make sure I don't even crank it before changing the oil. I need to figure out some easier way to fill the engine one of these days. There will still be air trapped in the heads and steam ports even when there's coolant in the upper radiator hose where the steam port connects to. I grabbed some rubber hose clamps on Amazon to hold the fuel line, and a neat Russell fitting for the fuel rail that actually threads in place on the quick connect fitting. Still got one more fitting, shipped by itself from Summit, as well as new valve cover gaskets on the way from Rockauto.
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Jan 4, 2018 07:18
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Jack up the front end so the radiator cap is higher than the engine or use one of those no spill funnel things that raise the water level another 6" or so at the cap (if that's enough height)...? Or can you fill at both the rad and the "steam cap" to fill in the otherwise hard to fill areas? I know my G35 had a stupid plug in one of the water hoses on the back of the engine for this and they're notoriously hard to burp (it seemed very simple knowing that plug was there, though  ) .
Suburban Dad fucked around with this message at 14:06 on Jan 4, 2018 |
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Jan 4, 2018 14:04
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I've got one of those funnels (two, actually) and even with that it takes forever to purge the air out unless you pull the steam line. Even then you can hear it slowly bubbling the air through for a while.
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Jan 4, 2018 14:12
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Spent half the day working on the truck today. Would've been longer but I just could not kick my rear end into gear this morning. Installed the Russell 644123 fitting on the fuel rail - instead of relying on the spring tension of a normal quick connect, this actually uses two pieces that thread together. My fuel rail did have a minor bend in it I had to straighten out to get the two pieces lined up enough to thread together. Also pulled the valvecover and had a look around.  Luckily, despite that rearmost bolt being completely jacked in there - no damage of any sort to be seen. Also glad to see things are still spotless, though I seriously doubt this engine has ever gone above 3000 miles on an oil change in its life. I then proceeded to spend way more time than I should've dicking around with the passenger header bolts. I'm not sure if the BBK bolts are just cut on the big side (my M8x1.25 die still takes a bit of material off of them) or if the threads in the heads are all gunked up, but they just don't thread in reliably even though they're the same size as the factory bolts. I'm going to find some different ones and use them, probably return the BBKs to Summit. So I have the headers in place, but not torqued down. Driver's side:   The rubber hose laying on the AN fitting is the laid-in-place fuel line.    Passenger side:   The starter / O2 sensor wiring is tight as hell on the passenger side. At the very least I need to undo some of the terminals on the starter and re-orient the ring terminals. Definitely going to add some heat shielding over here. Underneath:     The collectors aim pretty squarely at the trans crossmember. The exhaust shop is going to have to fab up a jog down here - the previous setup just had long downpipes that brought the whole system to below-frame level. Clearance to the oil pressure sender is close but nothing to worry about.  I pulled the old fuel line. I was going to reuse the same filter/regulator but as it turns out, the shop cut a stub of quick release fuel line and jammed a compression fitting on it so close to the output that I couldn't actually get a release tool in there. Very, very glad I had a Wix 33737 laying around from an Amazon warehouse sale. Running the fuel line along the underside of the top of the frame. Here's where it curves up to the cab:  I'm actually using one of the bolts that holds the throttle pedal to the firewall to hold one of the guide clamps. There's way more clearance between the fuel line and exhaust now, so I'm not worried about needing any heat shielding on it. I might still do some. Filter/regulator. I think I have enough hose to replace the line from the pump to the filter/regulator as well, which means I just need a couple more 6AN fittings.  To-do list: *Order new header bolts, actually torque down headers at the heads *Redo wiring on passenger side, add heat shielding as appropriate *Cut and terminate the fuel rail side of the fuel line, maybe replace the pump-to-regulator softline *Install O2 sensors *Replace spark plugs (they got pretty banged up from the old headers on the way out and I run some nice cheap NGK TR55s anyway) *Double check that I've got the dipstick in the right spot and bolt it down *Change oil and filter *Install earplugs, test fire, burp coolant *Drive to exhaust shop and get exhaust reworked There's also a list of nice-to-haves but not things I'm probably going to try and get done before Zip Ties, assuming I get all of the above done first. *Change rear end oil and the cross pin bolt *Change ATF and filter *Maybe reinstall door panels finally? *Replace output shaft seal on transmission *Inner and outer tie rod ends, and alignment Edit: Ordered a set of exhaust studs from Alper, $30 shipped. Wish I'd known about that before I put in the orders a few weeks ago. Oh well. IOwnCalculus fucked around with this message at 06:59 on Jan 8, 2018 |
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Jan 8, 2018 06:31
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Yup, totally should've ordered these studs the first time around. $30 shipped from Alper, way easier to install than bolts. If I ever pull the heads off the engine again I'll probably pick up one of their head stud kits too. Tomorrow or Friday night I need to get everything torqued down, sensors replaced, plugs replaced, wiring redone, finish the fuel line... All so I can get it to the exhaust shop on Saturday. If I don't make it there on Saturday, I don't like my odds of making it down to Tucson in a week.
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Jan 11, 2018 07:32
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Please dont forget to do an open header video before the exhaust shop. Its in the gearhead rules somewhere near the top of the list.
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Jan 11, 2018 19:19
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shy boy from chess club posted:Please dont forget to do an open header video before the exhaust shop. Its in the gearhead rules somewhere near the top of the list. Ideally, open headers and low trans fluid, so you have to pin it in order to creep along at a jog. I highly recommend it.
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Jan 12, 2018 07:24
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shy boy from chess club posted:Please dont forget to do an open header video before the exhaust shop. Its in the gearhead rules somewhere near the top of the list. With the oldest cell phone you can find, with the worst possible audio recording capability. Take us back with that old truck to youtube 2005
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Jan 12, 2018 15:25
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There will definitely be video. No pictures tonight because I was trying to work at least a little faster. Headers are fully torqued down, dipstick is installed, and I rearranged much of the wiring on the passenger side. I also discovered yet another poorly done butt splice in a bad location, so I was actually able to eliminate a relay I added years ago to deal with a starting problem. I also discovered that the jackass I paid to do some of this work, for some reason, used the positive (battery side, not after the solenoid) starter terminal as a distribution block. Only to two other wires, but why the gently caress would you run these down by the exhaust instead of over to the positive terminal on the battery? I'll be fixing that tomorrow. With the finagling on the passenger side, I now have far more clearance than before, and the harness reaches the O2 even in the long tube header. Driver's side is, unfortunately, about six inches short. I don't think I have any slack there to free up so I'm swapping that out with a Corvette O2 (Bosch 13111) for now. I may see if I can get my hands on a shorter extension and use the Camaro sensor since the Corvette one apparently has a mile of cabling attached. Cut the fuel line to length and put on the 90 degree fitting. Just need to put it back in the truck and pressure test it. Change the oil, install the coils, and fire it up.
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Jan 13, 2018 10:43
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It looks like I might've actually made a fully sealed fuel system on the first try! Got everything back together except the driver's O2 and one of the clamps for the fuel feed, since I can't reach both sides of the firewall at the same time. Doubly so when the inside nut is in the pedal box. I could theoretically fire it now but I don't want to put a sensor into a hot header, nor do I want to scorch my arms to hell tightening that clamp.
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Jan 13, 2018 20:57
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IOwnCalculus posted:It looks like I might've actually made a fully sealed fuel system on the first try! I have been trying to figure out what motor to put in my c10. LS motors are super easy even if you want to run a carb on them. But I think I’m going to find a gen IV 454. I just need to figure out a transmission. Your truck is super nice though, way nicer then my old ranch truck!
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Jan 13, 2018 21:57
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IOwnCalculus posted:It looks like I might've actually made a fully sealed fuel system on the first try! Don't you have a helper monkey running around that could hold a wrench on that nut?
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Jan 13, 2018 22:33
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Boaz MacPhereson posted:Don't you have a helper monkey running around that could hold a wrench on that nut? Or a pair of vise grips (or locking crescent)
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Jan 13, 2018 22:35
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They were off doing something else, and both sides of it are kinda tricky to lock something on. Had my wife torque it down as soon as she got home. Exhaust shop is closed for the day already so I'm just waiting for Amazon to same-day the Corvette O2 I ordered at 2am.
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Jan 13, 2018 23:39
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Raluek posted:Ideally, open headers and low trans fluid, so you have to pin it in order to creep along at a jog. I highly recommend it. You cursed me, you monster  Fired it tonight - video as soon as I finish uploading it. I need to do something about the starter since even with a fully charged battery the solenoid isn't getting enough of a kick to reliably crank over, so maybe I need to redo my previously-crappy starter relay solution. Whole problem is this truck has about a mile of wire in the starter circuit. As soon as it cranked it fired right up, and my wife immediately killed it because she did not understand what I meant by "it will be loving loud".  Didn't have the camera rolling that time anyway.Next time it cranked, it fired right up again. Let it idle for a bit and then heard fluid pouring. Shut it off and found a very sizable pool of ATF on the passenger side. I'm thinking I must have damaged a cooler line, probably while dragging the exhaust out from under the truck. I'm out of desire to soak up ATF with my back today so I'll let the cat litter do its thing and check under it tomorrow. Probably going to just run new lines with the same push-lock AN fittings I've been using. Side note, holy poo poo push-lock AN is the way to go. Warm the hose end with a heat gun, lube it with some oil, and shove the fitting in. Takes some significant effort to seat it but once it's there, you're done. No clamps, nothing. I don't think I've ever put together a fuel system in my life previously that didn't leak somewhere on the first start.
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Jan 14, 2018 05:00
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5C7E2SjbqcM https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k0FQyNNIKpw
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Jan 14, 2018 05:24
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Valt posted:I have been trying to figure out what motor to put in my c10. LS motors are super easy even if you want to run a carb on them. But I think I’m going to find a gen IV 454. I just need to figure out a transmission. I wouldn't even bother when you can get a 6.0/4L80e from an Express van and make 90% of the power and 200% the fuel economy.
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Jan 14, 2018 06:48
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IOwnCalculus posted:Side note, holy poo poo push-lock AN is the way to go. Warm the hose end with a heat gun, lube it with some oil, and shove the fitting in. Takes some significant effort to seat it but once it's there, you're done. No clamps, nothing. I don't think I've ever put together a fuel system in my life previously that didn't leak somewhere on the first start. Brand, link? I've got a mile or two of oil and fuel lines to run with AN fittings everywhere
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Jan 14, 2018 16:46
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I'm using Fragola hose ends and hose (which is just Parker 8600/8700 hose). The rest of the adapters I'm getting from whoever has them available cheap and with quick shipping. Supposedly this type of hose can have evaporation issues with fuel, where it doesn't leak but you get a fuel smell anyway. I don't have that happening so far. If it does happen then I'll need to rerun that hose with a braided / Teflon lined hose, and at that point I might see if I can find a premade one that's close enough in length.
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Jan 14, 2018 18:37
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IOwnCalculus posted:You cursed me, you monster Haha, gotcha. Hopefully the trans cooler lines don't put up too much of a fight. Are they soft lines? I would expect hard lines to be difficult to accidentally damage without noticing.
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Jan 14, 2018 22:26
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They're actually the combination of hard and soft lines that came from the donor car. They still have the quick connect fittings, and upon inspection it looks like I must have ripped one out while pulling the exhaust. Broke the clip, got some spares from AutoZone and hopefully that will snug it up well enough for now. I think I might still order up the parts to redo the lines with AN fittings.
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Jan 15, 2018 04:07
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There is just no loving room to get the clip onto the fitting properly in the truck, and removing the fitting takes a good long while at a sixteenth of a turn at a time. Not even enough room to use a power ratchet. But it looks like (based on a very short test fire since I actually do like my neighbors) it will actually hold. Still going to order the AN parts but I might wait for them to go on sale or something. Going to do an actual test drive / coolant bleed tomorrow during daylight, and try to get it to the exhaust shop on Wednesday.
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Jan 16, 2018 07:20
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Oh, forgot to mention that I did new spark plugs after I put the headers in, since I wanged a few of the old ones pretty hard. Spark plug access is actually pretty drat good with these headers. Not perfect, but good. I did have to take one of my 5/8 plug sockets and completely round off the external hex using the bench grinder. Otherwise the flats would line up against the header tube and I'd be unable to tell if I was snugging the plug or fighting leverage. Glad I have three of those 5/8 plug sockets. Though I have literally never had a case to actually use that external hex on any car I've ever worked on.
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Jan 16, 2018 07:33
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So this thing sounds so good at idle that I was thinking maybe I wanted to throw some cutouts on it. Took it for a quick test drive tonight to get the bubbles out of the coolant, fresh gas in the tank, and make sure the leaks are fixed (so far, yes). As soon as I touched the gas... NOPE. It goes from loud to "oh gently caress are my ears bleeding" thanks to resonance in the cab. I just barely touched the throttle enough to get it up to 40.
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Jan 17, 2018 04:27
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Out of the garage for the first time since at least November, complete with the ATF stain.  Burping the cooling system, fed the transmission half a quart of Dexron. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RHvHVA_nSEo More idling.
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Jan 17, 2018 05:49
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IOwnCalculus posted:So this thing sounds so good at idle that I was thinking maybe I wanted to throw some cutouts on it. Yeah open headers sound great at idle, but get painful. That is why straight-through glasspacks are a thing 
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Jan 17, 2018 06:09
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Good: Exhaust shop got everything hooked up neatly. Bad: Looks like the valvecover gasket I put on the driver's side must've come loose / pinched or something, since as I was turning right towards home (and stomped on it, of course) I got a big smokescreen. 
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Jan 18, 2018 01:38
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| # ? May 27, 2024 18:28 |
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IOwnCalculus posted:Good: Exhaust shop got everything hooked up neatly. Your youtube link isn't showing up for me for some reason 
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Jan 19, 2018 07:22
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