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marktheando posted:Love it when people complain about this show not being proper Trek and all the complaints are about things old Trek did too. Trouble With Tribbles didn't specifically say that they'd scanned the person and missed that he was a Klingon. Discovery is hanging a lantern on things and making it feel even worse! Plus when it's a one off episode it's easier to just go "Oh well that episode was dumb". When it's a fragment of a 12 episode serial it's less good. Taear fucked around with this message at 12:40 on Jan 14, 2018 |
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Jan 14, 2018 12:38
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twistedmentat posted:she acts like a real person, not a cartoon like Lawxana. Lwaxana is actually good and the only real foil for Picard outside of Q. She's a better match for him than Shindig (I'm keeping that autocorrect) or any of the other movie people except arguably in First Contact. Also, there are indeed real people very much like her even though there don't need to be because she is literally an alien, and an alien eccentric noble at that.
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Jan 14, 2018 14:06
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The_Doctor posted:Confirmed, there were modifications to the Defiant. Cool!  quote:Ted Sullivan Oh.  "Cheap 60s show"  So apparently not that the writers care, but I did think of a retcon as to why the Mirrorverse of DISCO and TOS era would not be fantastically advanced compared to their Real Universe counterparts. Simply put, we've seen in Star Trek the concept that technology can be extrapolated. A planet or civilization can get a hold of a small piece of tech and reverse engineer it and have it radically change their technology. It's the basis for the Prime Directive. There were massive changes in the JJverse just based on glimpses of the Narada and whatever leaked out over 20 years. So if the Mirrorverse of the ENT era got a TOS era Defiant, why weren't they advanced to movie era or TNG era tech over that 100 years? Why would they still be tooling around in Constitution class ships as the height of advancement, or ones like the Shenzou? They even still had the wall mounted transporters on the Mirror Shenzou and the XO/New Captain told Burnham he'd just upgraded them. Upgraded them to what Defiant had 100 years before? My explanation is that Empress Hoshi used the Defiant to take over the Empire and kept it as her flagship, but closely guarded it's secrets. She and her successors probably had an elite team of crew/engineers who only worked on that ship and were forbidden to leak it's tech on pain of death. Perhaps they didn't even fully understand it, and it only ran for 10 or 20 years before it started breaking down. Over the past century, they slowly doled out the secrets of the advanced ship, which is why by the time of DISCO, they are just now using Constitution class copies along with less advanced ships in the Mirrorverse. Edit: Another thing he said in his twitter discussion when asked about bringing back other characters alive at the time like T'Pau, Shran, or Pike: quote:Ted Sullivan And I get that, but it worries me when they say poo poo like this. Because what does a "cool new take" mean--that they are totally different? I could at least buy that Mudd or Sarek are the same men we saw later. But when you totally change a character in look, attitude, etc like First Contact did with Zephram Cochrane, then it has zero relation to the original and is a different person with the same name. For example, T'Pau has an arc on ENT and TOS--from young rebel to revered elder. But if she pops up in DISCO and is completely different, then it won't work. Pike could reasonably be different, as we only saw a glimpse of him in TOS at a point where he was questioning his entire career, and in JJTrek it was a whole new timeline with a new history for him. I understand not wanting to do "fan service" for the sake of it, but at least be consistent with what we already know of the characters. Astroman fucked around with this message at 14:44 on Jan 14, 2018 |
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Jan 14, 2018 14:27
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The Lord Bude posted:I feel like Lwaxana really redeemed herself as a character in her appearances on DS9 however. This is really true. DS9 makes every character who appears on it better; Lwaxana, Worf, O'Brien, Q. Worf is actually a badass and not some bumbling idiot who gets told no and then beat up every episode like on TNG.
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Jan 14, 2018 14:59
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I do wonder if anything could stop them from getting Bruce Greenwood to do a Pike cameo.
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Jan 14, 2018 17:02
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Bruce Greenwood kicked rear end as Pike. I'd easily watch a spinoff focused on him.
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Jan 14, 2018 17:25
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The_Doctor posted:I do wonder if anything could stop them from getting Bruce Greenwood to do a Pike cameo. Also valid in the timeline would be Admiral (probably a Captain at that time) Marcus. Would be interesting to see if he's still as much of a hardliner without the influence of the Narada/Kelvin incident. Peter Weller could also chew scenery even better in the Mirror Universe as Even More Evil Marcus.
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Jan 14, 2018 17:26
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Regarding the whole argument about DISCO scans that should have been able to detect the Klingon subterfuge, please explain to me how TNG comes-out smelling like a rose after the destruction of Starfleet's flagshop by a raggedy BoP? e: I'm keeping the typo.
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Jan 14, 2018 18:20
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Astroman posted:Also valid in the timeline would be Admiral (probably a Captain at that time) Marcus. Would be interesting to see if he's still as much of a hardliner without the influence of the Narada/Kelvin incident. Peter Weller could also chew scenery even better in the Mirror Universe as Even More Evil Marcus. Wouldn't the Kelvin incident have already happened? STD is 10 years before TOS, and the Kelvin was when Kirk was born, so like 30-40 years before TOS right?
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Jan 14, 2018 19:21
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Senor Tron posted:Were there any Troi/Guinan scenes in TNG? I imagine them just sitting down together, casting the occasional non-verbal expression at each other and then going their separate ways having resolved some massive discussion. The only one I can recall is from the episode where Troi loses her empathic sense. It's actually a nice little scene. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LDFvDhtxX4s
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Jan 14, 2018 20:09
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counterfeitsaint posted:Wouldn't the Kelvin incident have already happened? STD is 10 years before TOS, and the Kelvin was when Kirk was born, so like 30-40 years before TOS right? Yeah, the Kelvin encountered the Narada / Kirk was born in 2233 and Kirk joins Starfleet in 2255 (in the Kelvin universe, anyway; 2252 and graduated in 2257 according to TOS). The_Doctor posted:I do wonder if anything could stop them from getting Bruce Greenwood to do a Pike cameo. CBS would need to license that portrayal from Paramount.
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Jan 14, 2018 20:44
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Astroman posted:And I get that, but it worries me when they say poo poo like this. Because what does a "cool new take" mean--that they are totally different? I could at least buy that Mudd or Sarek are the same men we saw later. But when you totally change a character in look, attitude, etc ... "A new take" doesn't necessarily mean "totally change" - it can mean a new perspective that adds something without taking anything else away. I mean, taking Sarek as an example, now we have a better idea of why Spock joining Starfleet was so devastating to their relationship.
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Jan 14, 2018 20:50
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Astroman posted:Also valid in the timeline would be Admiral (probably a Captain at that time) Marcus. Balthazar Edison and the Franklin should also be out there somewhere waiting to be found.
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Jan 14, 2018 20:52
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cheetah7071 posted:Is she like a real stand up comedian or does she just do it for nerds? She's been doing conventions for 30 years at a going rate of about $15,000 a throw (adjust for year and inflation), and gets a guaranteed friendly audience. Nice work if you can get it.
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Jan 14, 2018 21:00
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Echo Chamber posted:I hope Section 31 doesn't show up in this show at all. agreed Restrained Crown Posse posted:Discovery has made me start my long planned first viewing of TNG; season 1 has far, far worse issues than Disco. They're also the same sins that are getting laid at Disco's feet: characters' key characteristics being conveniently forgotten to further the plot, previously laid rules for technology thrown out of the window to further the plot, acts of wondrous stupidity. The list goes on. On the other hand, if you can't do better than a show run by a drunk, drugged out, paranoid, senile old man being manipulated by his lawyer and a writers' room that churned through over thirty writers in the first year, that speaks really poorly to your abilities as a showrunner. skasion posted:Nobody EVER has cameras in the brig in Star Trek I don't buy "well past Treks did it too!!" as an excuse for sloppy or contrived writing. Writers should learn from mistakes of the past, not emulate them.
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Jan 14, 2018 21:10
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SpeakSlow posted:Regarding the whole argument about DISCO scans that should have been able to detect the Klingon subterfuge, please explain to me how TNG comes-out smelling like a rose after the destruction of Starfleet's flagshop by a raggedy BoP? I don't know anyone who thinks that was a good way for the Enterprise-D to go out. Even Ron Moore couldn't come up with anything better than a sniveling "well, every phaser blast and photon torpedo costs money, you know."
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Jan 14, 2018 21:11
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Astroman posted:Cool! Never mind the visual changes, can someone with a Twitter account ask him why the phaser and torpedo sound effects are such dogshit? Why is "pip pip pip" so popular? edit: not that this is new or specific to Discovery; Trek sound effects have been getting progressively worse for the past thirty years Farmer Crack-Ass fucked around with this message at 21:31 on Jan 14, 2018 |
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Jan 14, 2018 21:14
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Farmer Crack-rear end posted:I don't buy "well past Treks did it too!!" as an excuse for sloppy or contrived writing. Writers should learn from mistakes of the past, not emulate them. Neither do I, but this show is in general so lazy I have to count it in its favor when its laziness is appropriate to the history of the franchise rather than wildly inappropriate.
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Jan 14, 2018 21:31
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Farmer Crack-rear end posted:Never mind the visual changes, can someone with a Twitter account ask him why the phaser and torpedo sound effects are such dogshit? Why is "pip pip pip" so popular? Seriously the best sound effects they've got are lifted from decades older shows, that's so weak E: it's funny to see their guard drop, for all the crap we hear about respecting TOS they think it's just some cheap poo poo from the 60's and not the expensive rear end thing it was Tighclops fucked around with this message at 21:50 on Jan 14, 2018 |
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Jan 14, 2018 21:41
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Tighclops posted:E: it's funny to see their guard drop, for all the crap we hear about respecting TOS they think it's just some cheap poo poo from the 60's and not the expensive rear end thing it was I'd say that's true to a point. Let's not forget the Constellation in The Doomsday Machine
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Jan 14, 2018 23:06
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Farmer Crack-rear end posted:I don't know anyone who thinks that was a good way for the Enterprise-D to go out. Even Ron Moore couldn't come up with anything better than a sniveling "well, every phaser blast and photon torpedo costs money, you know." I should have been more forthcoming. Specifically, after having Geordi get kidnapped and tortured (see a theme here?) his visor was hacked by the Duras Sisters so they could watch him walk about the ship and eventually get the shield codes for the D. Using some of the same criticism of Discovery for the handling of the Secret Klingon story, with that logic the Advanced Technology of TNG would certainly have been able to detect a transmission of that type. Or possibly the Advanced, Humanitarian and Oh So Superior medical staff of the D maybe should have prescribed Geordi a bit of time off or at least looked for that sort of thing after he was kidnapped and tortured by a hostile force... SpeakSlow fucked around with this message at 23:44 on Jan 14, 2018 |
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Jan 14, 2018 23:40
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SpeakSlow posted:I should have been more forthcoming. Specifically, after having Geordi get kidnapped and tortured (see a theme here?) his visor was hacked by the Duras Sisters so they could watch him walk about the ship and eventually get the shield codes for the D. Using some of the same criticism of Discovery for the handling of the Secret Klingon story, with that logic the Advanced Technology of TNG would certainly have been able to detect a transmission of that type. Or possibly the Advanced, Humanitarian and Oh So Superior medical staff of the D maybe should have prescribed Geordi a bit of time off or at least looked for that sort of thing after he was kidnapped and tortured by a hostile force... Dude, you're preaching to the choir here. That whole subplot should've been excised in favor of us finally getting that knock-down, drag-out slugfest with a Romulan Warbird they'd been teasing since the end of season 1.
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Jan 15, 2018 00:07
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counterfeitsaint posted:Wouldn't the Kelvin incident have already happened? STD is 10 years before TOS, and the Kelvin was when Kirk was born, so like 30-40 years before TOS right? Yeah, so in theory there's a Captain/Admiral/Father of Carol Marcus who has had a very different life for the past 20 years. But hopefully still played by Peter Weller. Who could also probably direct the episode and it would kick even more rear end.
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Jan 15, 2018 00:15
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Tighclops posted:E: it's funny to see their guard drop, for all the crap we hear about respecting TOS they think it's just some cheap poo poo from the 60's and not the expensive rear end thing it was ToS production values are cheap looking crap though. That's objectively true in 2018, current year argument.
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Jan 15, 2018 00:27
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Lovely Joe Stalin posted:ToS production values are cheap looking crap though. That's objectively true in 2018, current year argument. Nah. Dated is not the same as cheap. Classic.
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Jan 15, 2018 00:30
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Classic Rapey Joe Stalin, for sure.
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Jan 15, 2018 00:40
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I saw The Enemy Within with my wife yesterday. You remember the dogicorn? She complained about its cheapness the first time it showed up, but had a laughing fit every time it showed up after that. And now she wants one too. She's allergic to dog hair, but maybe if it's a space dog ...
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Jan 15, 2018 00:54
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Cingulate posted:I saw The Enemy Within with my wife yesterday. You remember the dogicorn? She complained about its cheapness the first time it showed up, but had a laughing fit every time it showed up after that. And now she wants one too. Ok ok, some parts are cheap as hell, but not in general.
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Jan 15, 2018 00:56
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The Bloop posted:Nah. Dated is not the same as cheap. It looked terrible. It looks terrible. gently caress your lovely nostalgia. And gently caress you for thinking, for a second, that a modern tv series was gonna have a cardboard tube spaceship. You delusional fuckwits. But it's not fair that I blame you people. It's the fault of DS9 and Enterprise. Who threw away logic so they could have fan-wank episodes where the crew go back in time and OH LOOK it turns out that's really what things looked like. The 23rd century looked like lovely 60's sci fi. Isn't that weird? Isn't it... twee... as gently caress? The bridges of 23rd century federation star ships really did have a load of monitors with prototype windows screensavers displayed on them. That's what they did. That's all they did. Even better when Enterprise did this because their 22nd century ship looks so much better. Guess the federation just went retro! LMAO!!!!! No wait it is your fault. I'm so glad the makers of this show are taking off the gloves and telling you dullards and your maladjusted sentimentality to go gently caress yourself. New star trek is here and it's proudly standing on the grave of old star trek and pissing on its stinking corpse.
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Jan 15, 2018 01:06
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Yikes.
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Jan 15, 2018 01:10
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SpeakSlow posted:I should have been more forthcoming. Specifically, after having Geordi get kidnapped and tortured (see a theme here?) his visor was hacked by the Duras Sisters so they could watch him walk about the ship and eventually get the shield codes for the D. Using some of the same criticism of Discovery for the handling of the Secret Klingon story, with that logic the Advanced Technology of TNG would certainly have been able to detect a transmission of that type. Or possibly the Advanced, Humanitarian and Oh So Superior medical staff of the D maybe should have prescribed Geordi a bit of time off or at least looked for that sort of thing after he was kidnapped and tortured by a hostile force... I absolutely agree 100%. TNG completely dropped the ball at times. And the Discovery team should have learned from those mistakes. I mean, look, I don't want TNG Season 8 here. TNG got progressively more stuck up its rear end and leaned harder and harder on bullshit technobabble to provide plot tension. Regarde Aduck posted:It looked terrible. It looks terrible. gently caress your lovely nostalgia. And gently caress you for thinking, for a second, that a modern tv series was gonna have a cardboard tube spaceship. You delusional fuckwits. only thing worse than being mad about star trek is being mad about star trek nerds lmbo
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Jan 15, 2018 01:11
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Regarde Aduck posted:It looked terrible. It looks terrible. gently caress your lovely nostalgia. And gently caress you for thinking, for a second, that a modern tv series was gonna have a cardboard tube spaceship. You delusional fuckwits. Yikes! But while it's not worth this level of venom, I agree with the general thrust. The only time feeling beholden to stick a low-fi aesthetic like that has felt like it worked was Star Wars, since it's a space fairy tale. Star Trek is supposed to be our future so yeah when you watch the old ones you accept that the best they could do was blinking lights, dials, unlabelled tictac buttons and Spock's viewmaster thing. Then they had CRTs and 80's computer animation tactical displays for the movies. But I don't think if you got in a time machine and approached the production designer as some kind of SFX merlin who could do fully animated computer displays, holograms, poo poo like that ib a '60s Desilou TV budget, he would have turned his nosed up at you and said "no, man, the blinking lights and cardboard is our ~aesthetic~."
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Jan 15, 2018 01:31
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Lmao sanctimonious chode alert I'm not saying it should look like TOS. The basic layout and design philosophy is fine though, as are the basic uniform and level of tech. The dumb thing is making a period piece prequel, claiming loudly and proudly that it's in continuity, and then tossing precedent away. It's not about cardboard tubes you absolute ninny. It's not about unlabeled buttons or gorn zippers. If you're going to claim something is in continuity, and especially if you're going to make it some big mystery plot with alternate universes, time travel, or Section 31 subterfuge, it is right and good for fans to pick up on differences from what's expected. You can't write a mystery in a universe without baseline knowledge. They appear to be loving that up. If they wanted to go if the rails, set it in the loving future not between existing entries! Edit: Or just make a different show or a reboot. The Bloop fucked around with this message at 01:37 on Jan 15, 2018 |
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Jan 15, 2018 01:34
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Regarde Aduck posted:It looked terrible. It looks terrible. gently caress your lovely nostalgia. And gently caress you for thinking, for a second, that a modern tv series was gonna have a cardboard tube spaceship. You delusional fuckwits. Sir, this is a McDonald's drive thru
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Jan 15, 2018 01:35
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Regarde Aduck posted:It looked terrible. It looks terrible. gently caress your lovely nostalgia. And gently caress you for thinking, for a second, that a modern tv series was gonna have a cardboard tube spaceship. You delusional fuckwits. Don’t forget... TNG did it too with Scotty’s Holodeck recreation
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Jan 15, 2018 02:31
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I generally confine my Trek nerd associations to SA since as we all know the fandom is toxic, but I've noticed more bile and hatred coming from people mad at whatever their idea of trekkies is than anyone who actually has any criticisms of this show This sadly unremarkable show, which is terribly written and would be no matter how it looked. That it is visually unimpressive and derivative of seemingly everything but it's own source material only compounds how weak it is.
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Jan 15, 2018 02:34
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Regarde Aduck posted:It looked terrible. It looks terrible. gently caress your lovely nostalgia. And gently caress you for thinking, for a second, that a modern tv series was gonna have a cardboard tube spaceship. You delusional fuckwits. lol @ being this mad defending this garbage-rear end show
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Jan 15, 2018 02:51
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Changing the design of things is different to making them with higher production values. Perfect case in point, the uniforms they introduced in ST09. Absolutely perfect because they match the style of the originals while looking expensive and modern. It's easy to accept them as "Oh right, that's what they looked like all along" I look at real world history as the example. Imagine how a 1960's tv show would have depicted WWI or WWII. The sets and special effects would look small small and hokey by modern standards, but the basic foundations would be the same in a modern feature film taking place in those time periods. It's actually one big problem with how they did things in Trials and Tribble-ations and In a Mirror, Darkly - they tried to ape how the ship looked in TOS, not how it was designed. Make the hull look more metallic and constructed out of hull plates (while keeping the intentionally smooth lines), have a faint blue glow in the engines, turn down the intensity of the red glow, make the ship be lit with more contrast. Play up the fact that it is intentionally sleek and is hugely advanced tech. edit: The saucer section of the Enterprise in ST09 did this perfectly. There are some minor differences, but despite using basically the same design as from the 60's it looks modern. Shame about the rest of the ship though. Senor Tron fucked around with this message at 03:28 on Jan 15, 2018 |
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Jan 15, 2018 03:25
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why is nobody talking about the new episode why is nobody talking about EMPEROR MICHELLE YEOH
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Jan 15, 2018 03:30
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So did anyone watch it? It wasn't as fun as last week's, but I just like the world building of the Mirrorverse. And the actor playing Tyler is finally compelling now that he's no longer just playing PTSD man. The final plot twist of the Emperor was the least shocking thing though. Whatever. It'll be fun to see Michelle Yeoh ham it up.
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