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Animals shouldn't murder FPS as much as a dwarf, since they're not really doing any pathfinding save for simple random movement. Tho there might be some other insane things like the game trying to calculate the temperature of their eyeball's tear coverings or some poo poo so ~WHO KNOWS~ e: Also the blurb on flying units needing ground pathing is interesting. There's deffo some kind of culling behavior on the pathfinding to make sure it doesn't try to draw paths it cannot complete (which doesn't respect flying units, and would probably be hard to account for due to the culling behavior doing some graph math poo poo involving zones or whatever the gently caress). Which is probably more obvious when things like "Cannot Path" errors start propagating due to some weird cavern fog of war issues breaking that check, which results in framerates tanking horribly because A* really doesn't like it when you try to draw paths to unreachable areas. I kind of theorize that some inexplicable FPS drops are related to neutral/hostile entities doing that poo poo. Tiler Kiwi fucked around with this message at 06:40 on Jan 12, 2018 |
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Jan 12, 2018 06:36
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Animals apparently like to move around between meeting zones, though, and will occasionally unpasture themselves willfully, so I'm not entirely sure what's going on with tame animal pathfinding. And, yeah, they will interact with all the same systems other creatures do, with health, nutrition, and syndrome checks, tracking contaminants, and just generally being additional objects for the game to keep up with. Plus, animals apparently have SOME presence in both the legends system and the mood system, since they can be terrified, get bored, and can be recorded into legend in between unimportant figure culling cycles. The short answer is that FPS death is inevitable, face to bloodshed. World is a gently caress, kill'em all, 410,757,864,530 dead tame animals in the unit overview screen.
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Jan 12, 2018 07:27
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I mean, if you have a decent CPU it's definitely possible to scale the game down enough to get a stable, consistent 100 FPS. - Dwarf caps, animal caps, visitor caps, and sieging enemy caps are all things you can adjust by .ini. - Megabeasts can be edited in the raws to attack smaller fortresses if you don't want to lose them, same thing for sieges. - Temperature and weather don't really do anything super-essential for the game in most embarks. - I forget if permitting 1x1 embarks still requires editing the executable or if you can do it by default now, but either way, 1x1 embarks are cool because you have to be so economical with your layout. - Either embark somewhere lightly forested or clear trees regularly. - Use quantum stockpiles and give your dwarves cabinets/chests. - Use the "cleanmap" command periodically. I've had forts where the biggest cause of slowdown was all the blood and vomit and snow and dirt everywhere. e: oh and avoid 1-tile-wide corridors at all costs, this causes re-pathing and that will cause major (and worse, sporadic/inconsistent) slowdown Tuxedo Catfish fucked around with this message at 07:49 on Jan 12, 2018 |
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Jan 12, 2018 07:43
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10x10 map, two dwarfs, thirty cats.
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Jan 12, 2018 07:45
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Tuxedo Catfish posted:I mean, if you have a decent CPU it's definitely possible to scale the game down enough to get a stable, consistent 100 FPS. boring a dwarven megalopolis with an infinite zoo in the jungle is the dream
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Jan 12, 2018 08:02
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You guys don’t surround pastures with walls?
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Jan 12, 2018 14:59
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only if the animals can pay for it.
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Jan 12, 2018 20:21
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Zesty posted:You guys don’t surround pastures with walls? If there is a door, the animals can still try to path out. A tightly shut door causes animals that want to go to try to path through it over and over. A locked door should stop them from trying to path through it, but then dwarfs can't get in either.
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Jan 12, 2018 20:27
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Shady Amish Terror posted:Also, incidentally, monster hunters have demonstrably clambered along walls, ceilings, and trees in pursuit of prey; it is REALLY IMPRESSIVE what a unit can accomplish even with 0 climbing skill, though it often leads to hilarity as well. Since any unit not tagged to exclude the ability can climb, climbing should always be a consideration in your fort's defense. Or, at least keep an eye out for it happening, so as not to miss any amusing anecdotes of bloodthirsty units clambering up a six-story wall while half of them fall to their deaths. A menacing band of Keas attacked one of my fortresses a while back. Just happened to occur when the caravan showed up and I was in the middle of hauling out all my crafts so the instant they came outside they immediately ran in terror. Somehow half of them ended up climbing to the top of the nearest trees and since they had no climbing skills they were loving stuck there until I cut them down.
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Jan 12, 2018 20:44
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Makes sense since they're ground parrots.
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Jan 12, 2018 22:29
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That's  actually. Keas are the car(and everything else) destroying aseholes.
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Jan 12, 2018 22:48
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Kommando posted:Makes sense since they're ground parrots. They're related to Kakapos (and the two make up a primitive branch of the parrot family tree), but yeah, Keas can fly. Dwarves can't, which does make fleeing up into trees seem like a particularly bad escape plan.
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Jan 12, 2018 23:02
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Neither can humans. Guess dwarves have those pesky monkey genes hanging around as well.
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Jan 12, 2018 23:38
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Facebook Aunt posted:If there is a door, the animals can still try to path out. A tightly shut door causes animals that want to go to try to path through it over and over. A locked door should stop them from trying to path through it, but then dwarfs can't get in either. My point isn’t unpasteurizing about being on the pasture edge and poking out? So limiting the edge may help with that. Or do they do their best to leave the pasture completely regardless of how far they have to run to do it?
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Jan 13, 2018 05:52
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I just had a buck naked dwarf suddenly join my fortress. I didn't get a petition notice or anything. I can't set labors on this dwarf. What the gently caress is going on?
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Jan 13, 2018 07:14
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He's probably just welsh.
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Jan 13, 2018 07:38
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That settles the pasture door locking debate pretty definitively
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Jan 13, 2018 18:26
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I just had that happen as well, except the nude dwarf had a book and the announcements claimed they brought back a few rumors.
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Jan 13, 2018 20:08
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just kind of a wholesome thing. Some pics of Toady and Threetoe drawing rewards for donations, and their halloween costumes https://twitter.com/theothertuklus/status/952295888025612289 https://twitter.com/theothertuklus/status/924440102666846208
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Jan 13, 2018 22:52
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Tars Tarkas posted:I just had that happen as well, except the nude dwarf had a book and the announcements claimed they brought back a few rumors. I just checked the bug tracker and it's a confirmed bug. I tried assigning my useless dwarf a bedroom and she refuses to sleep in there and bitches about sleeping on the dirt.
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Jan 13, 2018 23:17
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Shady Amish Terror posted:They're related to Kakapos (and the two make up a primitive branch of the parrot family tree), but yeah, Keas can fly. oh right. derp.
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Jan 13, 2018 23:35
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Tyshalob posted:I just checked the bug tracker and it's a confirmed bug. I tried assigning my useless dwarf a bedroom and she refuses to sleep in there and bitches about sleeping on the dirt. Hm.. Maybe I should wait for this to get fixed, already got a second nude Poet popping up and doing nothing, this one didn't even have the decency to bring a book. Shame cause the new version is noticably faster and fixed the monster pathings, so some of the forgotten beasts that were sitting around on trees underground started moving, two of them teamed up and smashed their way up through doors and up the main stairs where the army killed them, but I lost 4 guys doing so (including a dwarf who had already killed a beast), the biggest non-dragon related death in the fort's history. I've still yet to lose a single dwarf from the invasions of the goblins civs that are mad I keep raiding their sites even with two invasions a year now. The Honey Badger Lady Scholar is now a citizen and is still holding onto the book she stole and brought back. I assigned her a position in the library.
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Jan 14, 2018 00:42
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I pasture my animals on the ground floor of sniper towers that can only be entered from a network of tunnels below. I don't think they ever try to leave.
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Jan 14, 2018 01:40
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https://github.com/DFHack/dfhack/releases DFHack 0.44.04-alpha1 is out. https://github.com/mifki/df-twbt/releases And TWBT for DFHack 0.44.04-alpha1 also is out. IAmTheRad fucked around with this message at 08:17 on Jan 14, 2018 |
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Jan 14, 2018 08:10
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I'm playing with 0.43.05 after not playing DF for about a year - is the Justice system broken? Or at least not concerned with tavern fights? My tavern had its share of drunken scuffles but nothing serious came of it...until yesterday when a gruesome melee spilled out in to the hallways involving countless shitfaced dwarves. Blood splattered, teeth scattered and when the brawl finally settled down, six were dead and dozens more crowded the hospital with compound fractures and torn spinal tissue. One fellow was punched in the lower body so hard he was gelded  Meanwhile, the Justice screen shows no crimes and the CotG is happy to just constantly spar in the barracks and meditate on Jewels or whatever. As an aside, I love that visiting Human bards will occasionally drink themselves to death in the tavern, their corpse falling where it may while dwarves keep chugging maize beer, indifferent to the miasma.
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Jan 14, 2018 19:31
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KERNOD WEL posted:Meanwhile, the Justice screen shows no crimes and the CotG is happy to just constantly spar in the barracks and meditate on Jewels or whatever. These are crimes: Violation of Production Order - failing to produce items mandated by a noble. Violation of Export Prohibition - selling items to a caravan which a noble forbade exporting. Violation of Job Order - failing to complete guild jobs mandated by the mayor (currently does not happen). Conspiracy to Slow Labor - deliberately slowing down the workflow of the fortress by delaying jobs (currently does not happen) Murder - killing a fellow dwarf or a tame animal. Alternatively, being caught sucking blood out of another dwarf. Disorderly Conduct - attacking another dwarf while throwing a tantrum. Building destruction - destroying a building during a tantrum. Vandalism - toppling furniture or doors during a tantrum. Anything else is not a crime. So brawling is not a crime, as they are not on a tantrum. Just a drunken rage. A tantrum generally has a dwarf use their weapon if they are carrying anything instead of their fists.
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Jan 14, 2018 19:47
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So I haven't played this in years and think about diving in again so apologies if the answers are obvious- All I ever really was interested in this game was building above-ground structures. While not very dwarven, I always just wanted to build villages with multi-story buildings and intricate castle-like structures with huge walls etc.. and df made that interesting because of it's 3d nature and interesting terrain features on some maps. Sadly as how material yields worked in past versions, you had to hole out entire mountains/raze entire forests to be able to build a small stone shack with wooden floor. Has anything about that changed? Also farming was way, way too effective in that a small field could feed hundreds of dwarves. Has that gotten a bit more challenging? Is immigration now actually generated out of people from that civ or are the immigrants still "created" at the border? Can I have different races in my dwarven outpost? Thanks for answering my questions if you do!
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Jan 14, 2018 20:37
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KERNOD WEL posted:I'm playing with 0.43.05 after not playing DF for about a year - is the Justice system broken? Or at least not concerned with tavern fights? My tavern had its share of drunken scuffles but nothing serious came of it...until yesterday when a gruesome melee spilled out in to the hallways involving countless shitfaced dwarves. Blood splattered, teeth scattered and when the brawl finally settled down, six were dead and dozens more crowded the hospital with compound fractures and torn spinal tissue. One fellow was punched in the lower body so hard he was gelded It sounds like you have assigned a barkeeper to your tavern? You don't need one, everyone can drink their fill on their own. But if you have one, he'll keep serving everyone long past the point of merely quenching thirst. Leading to alcohol poisoning among non-dwarfs, and generally lots of drunken brawls.
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Jan 14, 2018 20:44
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IAmTheRad posted:Anything else is not a crime. So brawling is not a crime, as they are not on a tantrum. Just a drunken rage. A tantrum generally has a dwarf use their weapon if they are carrying anything instead of their fists. You know it totally makes sense that dwarves would have a cod of law that specifically exempts drunken brawls from punishment.
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Jan 14, 2018 21:09
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Practicality alone would require that. Any civilisation that made drunken brawling a crime would not last for long before imploding under either alcohol withdrawal or else just grind to a halt as 90% of the population becomes incarcerated.
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Jan 14, 2018 21:36
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Police Automaton posted:So I haven't played this in years and think about diving in again so apologies if the answers are obvious- All I ever really was interested in this game was building above-ground structures. While not very dwarven, I always just wanted to build villages with multi-story buildings and intricate castle-like structures with huge walls etc.. and df made that interesting because of it's 3d nature and interesting terrain features on some maps. Sadly as how material yields worked in past versions, you had to hole out entire mountains/raze entire forests to be able to build a small stone shack with wooden floor. Has anything about that changed? Also farming was way, way too effective in that a small field could feed hundreds of dwarves. Has that gotten a bit more challenging? Is immigration now actually generated out of people from that civ or are the immigrants still "created" at the border? Can I have different races in my dwarven outpost? Thanks for answering my questions if you do! - If you want stone, yeah it's gonna be a lot of mining still. You can process the stone into blocks but you probably know that already! There's mods that have stuff like 'brick kilns' to make such things easier though. - Trees are no longer 1 tile, and will grow quite large. In addition to having to watch for gobbos climbing trees and leaping from them to the top of your ramparts, this means 1 tree can yield quite a bit of wood. They also grow pretty quick. If trees grow in your biome you'll be set for wood - there might even be *too many* trees so be careful. They have falling leaves/fruits now which can be an FPS hit if you're in a dense forest... - Farming is still basically the same. A small field might not cut it but the growth rates and such haven't really been mucked with. *However* , now dwarves will get pissy if they eat the same meal over and over and over and over so there is some incentive to have more variety. That said it's harder to get a good tantrum spiral going as there are also more things for them to be happy about. - Immigration is now actually generated out of people from that civ, except for I believe the first 2 hard coded waves are still generated on the spot (not 100% sure though). But yes in general *nothing* is gen'd on the spot anymore, except maybe FBs (not sure if it gens those on the spot or just gens a bunch during world gen). Caravans, visitors, invaders, etc all are being simulated in the world in the background while they are not in your fort. Dwarves in your fort can definitely have friends/family arriving as immigrants. The outpost liaison will inform you of world events (last season goblins from X civ invaded and took over Y for example) that happened since the last visit. You can 'retire' the fort, go out and explore in adventure mode while it continues doing its thing, and resume playing the fort again. - And yes! You can now have different races as fully functioning members of the fort. Build a tavern, sometimes visitors will stay long term, some of those might petition to join the fort proper. At that point you can assign them labors, draft them into squads, the whole 9 yards. COMRADES fucked around with this message at 21:40 on Jan 14, 2018 |
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Jan 14, 2018 21:37
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Police Automaton posted:So I haven't played this in years and think about diving in again so apologies if the answers are obvious- All I ever really was interested in this game was building above-ground structures. While not very dwarven, I always just wanted to build villages with multi-story buildings and intricate castle-like structures with huge walls etc.. and df made that interesting because of it's 3d nature and interesting terrain features on some maps. Sadly as how material yields worked in past versions, you had to hole out entire mountains/raze entire forests to be able to build a small stone shack with wooden floor. Has anything about that changed? Also farming was way, way too effective in that a small field could feed hundreds of dwarves. Has that gotten a bit more challenging? Is immigration now actually generated out of people from that civ or are the immigrants still "created" at the border? Can I have different races in my dwarven outpost? Thanks for answering my questions if you do! Building materials are plentiful now, so that part shouldn't be a problem. You get lots of logs from felling a single tree, and if you do any serious mining for ore you'll have plenty of spare rocks (and one boulder can be turned into 4 blocks at a Mason's Workshop). Building a properly defended above-ground fortress is still a lot more work than a normal fortress, but it's perfectly doable. Remember some enemies can fly and most of them can climb now, so a simple wall isn't going to be enough: http://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php/DF2014:Climber Farming is unchanged I think, so it's still extremely easy to feed your fort. However, you need vast quantities of cloth (and dyes too if you want to be fancy), so you can still set up fairly large farms that produce useful stuff if you want to. Making your own clothing from scratch is very labor intensive and somewhat complex, but the manager system has gotten a lot better, so you don't have to micromanage it once it's up and running. You can set up permanent job orders like "Make more socks if we run low on socks and we have enough raw materials stockpiled". I don't know how immigrants are generated, but there's a new class of migrants in addition to the usual migrant waves of dwarves: http://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php/DF2014:Visitor Visitors can be from other races, and you get to choose whether or not they're allowed to stay in your fort permanently. Eventually they'll become citizens and can do normal jobs, but it takes ages and you don't get very many visitors compared to the normal dwarf migrants.
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Jan 14, 2018 21:37
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Thanks for the detailed answers. Looks like the game will pull me in again and there are really a lot of cool improvements! It actually used to be one "stone block" per boulder and one log per tree, so yeah, it was pretty impossible to build much of anything without doing a lot of resource extraction, sounds like it's a lot more viable now, especially with wood. That climbing mechanic and tavern stuff and actual world progress is cool too. Seems like I'm getting to build my castle village with cool tavern/inn after all. Thanks again!
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Jan 14, 2018 22:14
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If I want to do a lot of above ground building I make sure I've got a site with clay and then have a few magma kilns churning out bricks nonstop. Clay and magma gets you infinite building materials. Sand would also work if you wanted glass blocks and don't mind living in the Emerald City. I don't know if it's strictly worthwhile but getting lots of clay from the surface to the kilns is one of the times I bother with minecarts because the clay can just come from a static location as opposed to metal ore which is going to be a moving target and spread out.
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Jan 14, 2018 22:34
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The glass thing would also be a plan. Last time I played the carts weren't in yet so that will be interesting, too. (if anyone still remembers that game) I just found the current version of dfhack and the Legends Viewer. This is amazing. It's probably gonna consume me again until some dumb bug which does some arbitrary thing is gonna frustrate the hell out of me.
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Jan 14, 2018 22:43
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Police Automaton posted:Thanks for the detailed answers. Looks like the game will pull me in again and there are really a lot of cool improvements! At the same time it changed from 1 block to 4 blocks he changed the boulder drop rate so there are fewer boulders overall from mining. Still never a shortage or anything, mostly it's just less boulder clutter. Oh, and about the same time he changed it so the weight of boulders really matters and moving a boulder (or ore) by hand is slow going for most dwarfs. There are wheelbarrows now which makes it faster, but wheelbarrows can only be assigned to a stockpile, not a workshop. So haulers moving boulders to a stockpile move at a good clip, but if your mason or mechanic is weak he will be very slow dragging the boulders to his workshop if the nearest rock is far away.
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Jan 14, 2018 22:51
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Really, if you're not playing a super tricky gimmick embark then just buy and slaughter any decent size animals the caravans bring, set up some simple farm plots and gather plants in the caverns (if you can't do it outdoors) and you'll have all the food and variety you'll ever need.
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Jan 14, 2018 23:29
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Tars Tarkas posted:Hm.. Maybe I should wait for this to get fixed, already got a second nude Poet popping up and doing nothing, this one didn't even have the decency to bring a book. Shame cause the new version is noticably faster and fixed the monster pathings, so some of the forgotten beasts that were sitting around on trees underground started moving, two of them teamed up and smashed their way up through doors and up the main stairs where the army killed them, but I lost 4 guys doing so (including a dwarf who had already killed a beast), the biggest non-dragon related death in the fort's history. I've still yet to lose a single dwarf from the invasions of the goblins civs that are mad I keep raiding their sites even with two invasions a year now. Dwarf Fortress 0.44.05 was just released to fix this very issue. Toady One posted:One fix on top of the last release, for visitors that had become broken, acting like partial residents. Any broken visitors themselves are unpatchable in affected saves, so it was important to get this one up quickly. Old saves are compatible as usual, and should not get new broken visitors, but visitors that are currently acting strange will still be acting strange, and likely will not depart. Tyshalob fucked around with this message at 03:19 on Jan 15, 2018 |
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Jan 15, 2018 03:15
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0.44.05 was released? Well, DFHack was also updated for it. Not TWBT yet but it's more the DFHack stuff that people want.
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Jan 16, 2018 20:53
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Tyshalob posted:Dwarf Fortress 0.44.05 was just released to fix this very issue. Nice! I'll just kill off the two nude guys, hopefully via some ridiculous method
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Jan 16, 2018 21:02
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