|
Panzeh posted:I believe the FotS unit roster never played out as interestingly as OG Shogun 2's. I used to be tactical only but then I played beast men and I gotta zoom in on a mino charge. I just gotta
|
#
?
Jan 14, 2018 17:00
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 6, 2024 12:36 |
|
|
Arcsquad12 posted:Remember how in Napoleon and Empire people would actually speak their own languages? That was neat. Definitely liked the native voices in Napoleon as well, it helped add some distinctive flair to each nation despite most units being similar.
|
|
#
?
Jan 14, 2018 17:10
|
|
|
I like the setting, era, alternate history and mods that improve it. Much more fun when you have the artillery mod that expands that stuff. Plus I imagine if you are patient traditional only is an interesting way to play it.
|
|
|
#
?
Jan 14, 2018 17:22
|
|
|
I liked Fall of the Samurai because it changed things up from the usual pikeman/swordman/archer/calvary combat present in just about every other game and moved on to eras which required different tactics with the introduction of reliable firearms. It's something only Empire: Total War (in the late game) and Napoleon: Total War manage to do as they take place in eras where major technological advances are made. I wish they'd make another game that deals with the early industrialization of armies and warfare in the late 19th/early 20th centuries. I'm more interested in the empire building and empire management aspects of these games as well; tactical combat is fun but I tend to space out after a while.
|
|
#
?
Jan 14, 2018 17:34
|
|
|
Like some aspects of Empire, despite the short comings and awkwardness is still hits the right spot for some people. I imagine in two or three years time we might get something different. Or sooner if these flashpoint ones work.
|
|
|
#
?
Jan 14, 2018 17:45
|
|
|
Psychotic Weasel posted:I liked Fall of the Samurai because it changed things up from the usual pikeman/swordman/archer/calvary combat present in just about every other game and moved on to eras which required different tactics with the introduction of reliable firearms. It's something only Empire: Total War (in the late game) and Napoleon: Total War manage to do as they take place in eras where major technological advances are made. I wish they'd make another game that deals with the early industrialization of armies and warfare in the late 19th/early 20th centuries. They have a variety of ways to do this with a Chinese setting, including two of the bloodiest wars in human history that don't get much, if any attention in the West. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taiping_Rebellion https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transition_from_Ming_to_Qing Either of these settings would be really interesting, but I could see the Taiping Rebellion being a little dicey for a game.
|
|
#
?
Jan 14, 2018 17:48
|
|
|
Randarkman posted:I remember the first Company of Heroes having a pretty decent variety of American accents for the unit voiceovers. Though the German voiceovers in that game, both 1 and 2 (US voiceovers in 2 are pretty boring), were the best, just pure camp. I need some kind of media where everybody has a west/central PA accent and everybody hates it. Total War ACW battle advisor: "Ey bud yinz otta go down up ere uh Gettysburg and stop General Lee ere bud." (imagine all sentences having the upward inflection of a question no matter what they're saying). Plan Z fucked around with this message at 18:33 on Jan 14, 2018 |
|
#
?
Jan 14, 2018 18:25
|
|
turn off the TV posted:They have a variety of ways to do this with a Chinese setting, including two of the bloodiest wars in human history that don't get much, if any attention in the West. I mean they made FOTS about the Boshin War so they could certainly pull those off especially with some fudging, alt history and a little of that Total War magical jank.
|
|
|
#
?
Jan 14, 2018 20:27
|
|
|
FotS is what you make it. If you're just sitting back with 20 armstrong guns then yeah it's not especially tactically engaging (but it's still very satisfying, come on), but if you put some limitations on yourself then it's easily among the most dynamic entries in the series, both with the modernized armies and doubly so if you go traditional. If you're the kind of person that needs the game to put the rules on you then I can see it not being your thing, but Total War has never been great about stopping you from minmaxing like that. Even in vanilla Shogun 2 it doesn't take terribly long to get a maxed out stack of bow warrior monks if you just wanna murder everything effortlessly. That plus the dichotomy between the eras and how noticeable and well paced the technological progression is. The naval combat does suck though, doubly so since neglecting it means half your cities get bombarded every turn rather than just meaning you lose out on the trade nodes like in most of the games.
|
|
#
?
Jan 14, 2018 22:04
|
|
|
yeah no joke, the most fun i had with fots was my first game, where i misread the end date and thought i had to do a hell march to the big objective cities where i ditched my artillery and had line infantry/katana kachi combined arms tactics just so i could move far enough
|
|
#
?
Jan 14, 2018 22:09
|
|
|
Not really related, but I've crewed an armstrong gun irl for a summer student job, at a tourist attraction fort in Ontario. poo poo is cool yo. We also had a mortar and some 24lbers on the wall that would get fired. It's pretty terrifying to imagine crewing a muzzle loader in the face of a force fielding armstrongs.
|
|
#
?
Jan 14, 2018 22:22
|
|
|
SeanBeansShako posted:I mean they made FOTS about the Boshin War so they could certainly pull those off especially with some fudging, alt history and a little of that Total War magical jank. The Taiping Heavenly Kingdom was basically a Christian cult headed by individuals claiming to literally be the holy trinity and they sound pretty bat poo poo crazy. The rebellion inspired Sun Yat-sen, aka the father of the Kuomintang and Republic of China. The war is also apparently portrayed as a precursor to the later populist and communist movements, despite the fact that the uprising was violently crushed. The Qing dynasty was being propped up by western countries throughout the conflict, and received military assistance from them. Cults, Christianity, government corruption, political violence and modern history seems like a good combination for a ban in China. turn off the TV fucked around with this message at 22:43 on Jan 14, 2018 |
|
#
?
Jan 14, 2018 22:40
|
|
|
turn off the TV posted:The Taiping Heavenly Kingdom was basically a Christian cult headed by individuals claiming to literally be the holy trinity and they sound pretty bat poo poo crazy. The rebellion inspired Sun Yat-sen, aka the father of the Kuomintang and Republic of China. The war is also apparently portrayed as a precursor to the later populist and communist movements, despite the fact that the uprising was violently crushed. The Qing dynasty was being propped up by western countries throughout the conflict, and received military assistance from them. P-Mack did a huge series of excellent effortposts on the entire thing in the old military history A/T thread: https://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3585027&userid=127245&perpage=40&pagenumber=8#post454915546 (follow the links at the top of that post to start at the beginning) It's utterly fascinating. There's just so many things coming together all at once. Bureaucracy, a weird sort of proto-communism, an incredibly weird syncretised sort of Christianity, Confucianism, boat fights, and more! Perestroika fucked around with this message at 23:06 on Jan 14, 2018 |
|
#
?
Jan 14, 2018 22:57
|
|
turn off the TV posted:Cults, Christianity, government corruption, political violence and modern history seems like a good combination for a ban in China. I imagine if they do it, it'd be a flashpoint sort of title with nothing to do with the Three Kingdoms stuff. Are single player RTS games that big in China? I know arena multiplayer and MOBA games are kicking it at the moment.
|
|
|
#
?
Jan 15, 2018 00:02
|
|
|
A taiping rebellion game would be like FOTS but completely loving nuts in the best way it wouldnt even need to be exaggerated like FOTS, all they'd have to do is include the 4 other rebellions that occurred during that time, plus a faction to represent the formation of the traids.
|
|
#
?
Jan 15, 2018 00:45
|
|
|
SeanBeansShako posted:I imagine if they do it, it'd be a flashpoint sort of title with nothing to do with the Three Kingdoms stuff. Are single player RTS games that big in China? I know arena multiplayer and MOBA games are kicking it at the moment. I think that if 3k is well received CA would try to keep selling games in the Chinese market. Single player RTS games aren't exactly big in the west, either.
|
|
#
?
Jan 15, 2018 00:51
|
|
|
So I got Shogun 1 when it first came out and loved it. Then I got Medieval when it came out and kinda hated it. It felt bloated because there were 12 different kinds of "Spearmen" and I couldn't be bothered learning the differences or whatever. Plus the scope of the game (Conquering all of Europe) was...excessive. But now I'm jonesing to play a Total War game again. I was thinking Shogun 2 would be the next logical step for a Total War game that I would like, but Empire looks pretty fun with an emphasis on non-swords\spears units. Any recommendations?
|
|
#
?
Jan 15, 2018 00:57
|
|
|
Shogun 2 and its Fall of the Samurai dlc.
|
|
#
?
Jan 15, 2018 01:00
|
|
|
drat, OG Total War crew. Shogun 2 is the obvious way to follow it up, yeah. Empire's whole appeal is its scope so if that's not a selling point then it's definitely not what I'd recommend. Napoleon might be a better fit if you want gunpowder stuff, although the Fall of the Samurai expansion pack for Shogun 2 we were just talking about also does that well (albeit while also including swords and spears). Incidentally it's also standalone; you don't need Shogun 2 for FotS. If 3 Kingdoms sells well in China and they foster a market there, I think the last thing CA will want to follow it up with is a game set right around the time the western powers came in and tore their country apart. Cool a setting as it might otherwise be. e: totally unrelatedly, anyone actually tried out Rome 1 for tablets? I'm tempted Koramei fucked around with this message at 01:05 on Jan 15, 2018 |
|
#
?
Jan 15, 2018 01:01
|
|
|
The Taiping Rebellion also occurred alongside the 2nd Opium War.
Mantis42 fucked around with this message at 01:17 on Jan 15, 2018 |
|
#
?
Jan 15, 2018 01:13
|
|
|
H13 posted:So I got Shogun 1 when it first came out and loved it. Shogun 2 is definitely among the cleanest of the recent Total Wars. It has a limited roster of well-differentiated units filling distinct and valuable niches. You can figure out what most units do immediately from three variables: weapon (mostly sword, spear, or bow), quality (ashigaru, samurai, or warrior monk), and whether it's cavalry. If you're interested in expanding out of the core gameplay, I'd second recommendations for Napoleon or Fall of the Samurai over Empire, as both benefited significantly by learning from Empire's faults.
|
|
#
?
Jan 15, 2018 01:36
|
|
|
Koramei posted:The naval combat does suck though, doubly so since neglecting it means half your cities get bombarded every turn rather than just meaning you lose out on the trade nodes like in most of the games. The naval combat in FotS wouldn't have been nearly as bad if the AI didn't commit seppuku the moment you developed explosive shells, leading to them just sitting completely immobile on the far edge of the map for every single goddamn battle while the autoresolve never does justice to how utterly you can clown the AI with explosive shells, forcing you to fight every one of those little pissant fights if you don't want to lose ships to attrition. Naval combat in FotS prior to explosive shells is probably the closest Total War is ever going to get to dreadnought combat and I loved it.
|
|
#
?
Jan 15, 2018 01:56
|
|
|
Tomn posted:The naval combat in FotS wouldn't have been nearly as bad if the AI didn't commit seppuku the moment you developed explosive shells, leading to them just sitting completely immobile on the far edge of the map for every single goddamn battle while the autoresolve never does justice to how utterly you can clown the AI with explosive shells, forcing you to fight every one of those little pissant fights if you don't want to lose ships to attrition. the 2 biggest issues are that the AI never consolodates their fleets and that they are reallllly slow on naval research the first is crap because you never get any big awesome fights and instead have a dozen single ships running a round bombarding stuff and raiding trade routes, the second is bad because of the aforementioned explosive shell problem, but also because they dont start fielding iron ships until you've almost won, if they ever do which means all you never get to mess around with anything else.
|
|
#
?
Jan 15, 2018 02:02
|
|
|
Those are good points. The one time I really enjoyed FotS naval combat was when I had a campaign where the AI glitched out and there was peace over all Japan for like 100 turns; by the time I got too bored and attacked someone, everyone'd maxed out their trees and things were actually pretty challenging.
|
|
#
?
Jan 15, 2018 02:17
|
|
|
I've decided I'm going to try and read the book this game is going to be based on, what's considered the best/most readable translation? The 1995 or the 2014 one?
|
|
#
?
Jan 15, 2018 02:22
|
|
|
The 4 volume Moss Roberts version is worth it for the footnotes alone.
|
|
#
?
Jan 15, 2018 02:23
|
|
|
Cheers for the suggestions. Since FOTS is standalone, is it worth grabbing Shogun 2 or should I just grab FOTS?
|
|
#
?
Jan 15, 2018 03:04
|
|
|
H13 posted:Cheers for the suggestions. They are both really great, and guns and cannons play very differently from swords and bows
|
|
#
?
Jan 15, 2018 03:15
|
|
|
I would highly recommend Shogun 2 if you're looking for a focused campaign with clearly defined unit types and gameplay that focuses on actual combat and tactics and not building weird units or gaming the system somehow. It also strikes an excellent balance with agents being useful, but not overwhelmingly or annoyingly so.
|
|
#
?
Jan 15, 2018 03:33
|
|
|
I just tried Rome 2 for the first time. Probably 90% of my relevant total war experience is the warhammer games (I also played shogun 1 and rome 1 a lot a billion years ago but don't remember poo poo). I am playing Massalia. I am completely lost. They made buildings much more complicated than in warhammer. I made a harbour and now I need food but I can't just go raid for it??? Is there any analog to shift-rmb drag for telling your units where to path and alt-lmb drag? I can't play without that.
|
|
#
?
Jan 15, 2018 03:49
|
|
|
Senor Dog posted:I just tried Rome 2 for the first time. Probably 90% of my relevant total war experience is the warhammer games (I also played shogun 1 and rome 1 a lot a billion years ago but don't remember poo poo). I am playing Massalia. There's one for alt-lmb drag though don't ask me what it is, but pathing was added in Attila.
|
|
#
?
Jan 15, 2018 04:02
|
|
|
Edgar Allen Ho posted:Not really related, but I've crewed an armstrong gun irl for a summer student job, at a tourist attraction fort in Ontario. poo poo is cool yo. What the gently caress this is the last place I expected to read that, Squad or Drums? - FHG 2241 Generation Internet fucked around with this message at 16:25 on Jan 15, 2018 |
|
#
?
Jan 15, 2018 07:34
|
|
|
The other problem with navel battles was that autoresolve for them was really bad. On a minmax level, for instance, going nanban trade ships was a strong choice since they could wipe out navies while taking little or no damage, but it then meant having to fight every stupid battle or your ship would get half killed by two arrow ships and blow a quarter+ of your turns budget on repairing it. So you had the choice of playing sub-optimally (and thus getting pissed off whenever bad things happen that you could have avoided by playing "better"), or doing something monotonous and tedious. Thats never a good thing in game design.
|
|
#
?
Jan 15, 2018 07:48
|
|
|
Tiler Kiwi posted:The other problem with navel battles was that autoresolve for them was really bad. On a minmax level, for instance, going nanban trade ships was a strong choice since they could wipe out navies while taking little or no damage, but it then meant having to fight every stupid battle or your ship would get half killed by two arrow ships and blow a quarter+ of your turns budget on repairing it. So you had the choice of playing sub-optimally (and thus getting pissed off whenever bad things happen that you could have avoided by playing "better"), or doing something monotonous and tedious. Thats never a good thing in game design. I actually liked Shogun 2's naval battles. Sure, their logic is a bit weird and it takes some getting used to, but there's something about the opportunistic chaos of close-in boarding and shooting that I enjoyed, and it's always great fun when you double your fleet for free through victory (and then disband most of them because holy hell upkeep). Also for my money nanban trade ships aren't the optimal choice at all strategically - by the time you get them out you could have had a conventional fleet up and running and securing sweet, sweet trade riches for yourself and snowballing your advantages. They're only optimal I think if you have trouble fighting and winning naval battles to begin with, though to be fair that's not exactly an uncommon problem since as mentioned they're kinda unintuitive. Everything you described applies 100% to FotS once explosive shells are developed, though, as mentioned earlier. Fakedit: Empire and Napoleon's naval battles remain the best.
|
|
#
?
Jan 15, 2018 12:08
|
|
|
Honestly the only real issue with the naval combat is that ships don't replenish. All the same issues used to happen with land armies when you had to rebuild the unit, now you don't even really notice autoresolve being a bit stupid on land fights unless it nails your general unit or something hard to replenish. It's just especially noticeable because of the way the autoresolve models injured units/ships and they take disproportionate casualties which means that after 2 or so fights you are losing ships endlessly.
|
|
#
?
Jan 15, 2018 12:24
|
|
|
Going from Warhammer's clear vision for buildings into mess that's Rome 2/Attila must suck. An upgrade should be just that, and you can build yourself into famine and rebellion in Rome. I've mostly get building rebalance mods. It's the worst with smaller powers, like mentioned Massalia. It's painfully obvious there was no proper testing for those.
|
|
#
?
Jan 15, 2018 13:03
|
|
|
Come to think of it, if you want REALLY tedious naval battles? I accidentally discovered one day that the Nihon Maru, the ship you get when you become Shogun, can solo enemy fleets. It does this because its walls are so high that enemy archers can't really hit most of your crew (and you can replenish whatever losses you take out of your huge existing crew), while your archers can rain death on lower enemy decks. The enemy isn't usually willing to try and board you to stop you either because you have that aforementioned massive crew. However, shooting enough crew to cause an enemy ship to rout takes time. Ergo, have fun sailing in circles slowly plinking down everyone until they run!
|
|
#
?
Jan 15, 2018 13:12
|
|
|
Koramei posted:e: totally unrelatedly, anyone actually tried out Rome 1 for tablets? I'm tempted i bought a 10.5" iPad Pro to have portable Rome 1, I am not disappointed. I only play it on trips because I have pc Rome 1 at home, but its the whole thing through and through, including the developer console for add_money if you just want to mess around. Rome 1 is my all-time fav, though I've played most (but not all) of the other TW titles. Scott Forstall fucked around with this message at 15:12 on Jan 15, 2018 |
|
#
?
Jan 15, 2018 14:03
|
|
|
Edgar Allen Ho posted:Not really related, but I've crewed an armstrong gun irl for a summer student job, at a tourist attraction fort in Ontario. poo poo is cool yo. Fort Henry or Malden? Those are the only two I can think of atm.
|
|
#
?
Jan 15, 2018 16:39
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 6, 2024 12:36 |
|
|
Arcsquad12 posted:Fort Henry or Malden? Those are the only two I can think of atm. As someone who's also worked there, Fort Henry.
|
|
#
?
Jan 15, 2018 16:41
|
|