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The movie violence against porgs didnt go Far Enough.
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Jan 15, 2018 09:58
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But I feel like Star Wars in general underplays just how terrifying it must be to be around a feral top predator like a Wookie.
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Jan 15, 2018 09:58
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Wild Horses posted:"if you kill your enemies, they win" - Rose Because he'd be dead and it wouldn't do poo poo for the rebels except by them more time. Actually it wouldn't have done anything at all because luke shows up right after. So his death would be for literally nothing.
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Jan 15, 2018 10:18
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Actually they were all pushed back except for him, he had a chance to save them all Rose could have easily doomed the rebellion is what im saying.
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Jan 15, 2018 10:27
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can someone edit in Rose ramming so she takes out Luke in the trench run? thanks
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Jan 15, 2018 10:36
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I can't remember the details anymore because it was inconsequential: did their skimmers even have guns? Did anyone try firing down the barrel of the super weapon? The Coen Brothers probably could have salvaged the script.
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Jan 15, 2018 10:40
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Wild Horses posted:Actually they were all pushed back except for him, he had a chance to save them all Finn blows up the battering ram canon. Then what.
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Jan 15, 2018 10:50
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Corky Romanovsky posted:I can't remember the details anymore because it was inconsequential: did their skimmers even have guns? Did anyone try firing down the barrel of the super weapon? Yes this is what they were trying to do. That's what Finn was trying to do. Except his lasers got melted from the heat.
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Jan 15, 2018 10:51
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Finn abandoned slave children to get back to contributing nothing to a nothing cause, so he pretty much deserves to die along with the other rebels.
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Jan 15, 2018 10:52
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BravestOfTheLamps posted:Finn abandoned slave children to get back to contributing nothing to a nothing cause, so he pretty much deserves to die along with the other rebels. Them trying to save children and ostensibly send them straight into another situation of sure death wouldn't play very well. The children understanding that the resistance isn't just a story they tell themselves is more than most in the Galaxy could hope for. It also cements the force as a real thing, just like Rey meeting Solo. We are the spark that will light the fire and all that.
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Jan 15, 2018 13:13
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bushisms.txt posted:Them trying to save children and ostensibly send them straight into another situation of sure death wouldn't play very well. The children understanding that the resistance isn't just a story they tell themselves is more than most in the Galaxy could hope for. It also cements the force as a real thing, just like Rey meeting Solo. You're saying that what Finn and Rose accomplished was a marketing effort. And what's so special about telling them that energy-field-God is real? You actually need to think about what they're inspiring hope for: the restoration of the Republic and the Jedi. The Resistance is fighting to take things back to the Prequel era. It's an inherently conservative and misguided movement. BravestOfTheLamps fucked around with this message at 14:31 on Jan 15, 2018 |
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Jan 15, 2018 14:06
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Anarchist are conservative? E: please keep editing and editing and editing, BotL EE: lol that one of your edits added a "not to mention" EEE: and then you edited it out, lololol EEEE: by your logic anarchists are conservative for wanting to return to a previous state of social order Corky Romanovsky fucked around with this message at 14:34 on Jan 15, 2018 |
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Jan 15, 2018 14:30
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Corky Romanovsky posted:Anarchist are conservative? The Resistance are not anarchists. e: Corky Romanovsky posted:E: please keep editing and editing and editing, BotL Are you all-right? BravestOfTheLamps fucked around with this message at 14:34 on Jan 15, 2018 |
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Jan 15, 2018 14:31
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BravestOfTheLamps posted:You're saying that what Finn and Rose accomplished was a marketing effort. And what's so special about telling them that energy-field-God is real? The end of the movie shows that the one with the ring can now use the force because of his belief. The main reason Rey is so strong is because she whole heartedly believes in the force, which she learned about from stories, which is then proved true by her meeting with Han Solo. This also reinforces that the galaxy is huge and it takes going outside of their bubble to begin the actual recruitment, which the movie shows is needed cause no one they know wants them. You talk about marketing campaign, but neglect the actual narrative playing out. Again, them taking 3 children with them on a dead end chase to another dead end chase to a last stand would not only look bad in a ham fisted way, it'll play bad in the universe where the resistance is stealing kids from friends and family, especially if they lose that last stand. I would say they're fighting to have an actual good version of the prequels, where the Jedi aren't gate keepers of the force who pluck up children and indoctrinate them like prized football players. The burning of the Jedi temple is like the tearing of the curtains in the holy of holies that housed the ark of the covenant when Jesus died, now there is no specific Mecca to talk to "God;" any one, anywhere can do it, sorry Catholics/fanboys. bushisms.txt fucked around with this message at 15:33 on Jan 15, 2018 |
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Jan 15, 2018 15:30
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Corky Romanovsky posted:EEEE: by your logic anarchists are conservative for wanting to return to a previous state of social order Your argument seems to be that going back to a previous social order doesn't make the Resistance conservatives, since that would make anarchists conservative too (?). In truth, the Resistance wants to preserve/restore the Senatorial aristocracy and the Jedi theocracy. You don't really get much more conservative than supporting theocracy. bushisms.txt posted:The end of the movie shows that the one with the ring can now use the force because of his belief. The main reason Rey is so strong is because she whole heartedly believes in the force, which she learned about from stories, which is then proved true by her meeting with Han Solo. This also reinforces that the galaxy is huge and it takes going outside of their bubble to begin the actual recruitment, which the movie shows is needed cause no one they know wants them. You're claiming that telekinetic ability legitimizes religious belief - if you are strong with telekinesis, that means you believe in God a lot. The narrative is that Finn and Rose don't stay to free slaves, because preserving an aristocrat's private army is more important. This ties into how you constantly talk about recruitment and raising awareness, and how the burning of the last temple represents the new ideal - it's a rebranding of the Senatorial/Jedi movement for a new generation. e: There are no holies of holies or gatekeepers in the new Jedi Order - the New Jedi are mobile, on-the-go. They're everywhere and interlinked. They're at the cutting edge of tomorrow. They don't believe in hierarchy - they believe in horizontality. BravestOfTheLamps fucked around with this message at 16:22 on Jan 15, 2018 |
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Jan 15, 2018 16:02
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BravestOfTheLamps posted:
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Jan 15, 2018 18:16
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BravestOfTheLamps posted:You're saying that what Finn and Rose accomplished was a marketing effort. And what's so special about telling them that energy-field-God is real?
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Jan 15, 2018 18:25
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bushisms.txt posted:It's actually the opposite, faith leads to telekinesis. Rey doesn't overly use the force until she's told it's actually real. And since she believes in that more than herself, she can literally move mountains. I never claimed they were out to raise awareness, the film states (the ring) that their actions have sparked something which results in a force user. You conflated that to a "marketing effort," when the brand was not even a thing until these actions happened. The new interpretation of the force as faith rather then a zen-like mental discipline is odd. You don't need faith in things that are demonstrably true. Why would jedi training ever be a thing when all that was needed was a "yo, check this out" from a jedi master?
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Jan 15, 2018 19:06
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SickZip posted:The new interpretation of the force as faith rather then a zen-like mental discipline is odd. You don't need faith in things that are demonstrably true. Why would jedi training ever be a thing when all that was needed was a "yo, check this out" from a jedi master? Because most of the Galaxy doesn't know Jedi Masters. They have stories and legends. We first see Rey sitting in the wreck of a war in tfa and she still doesn't believe Jedi are real until she meets living legend Han Solo which is confirmed through a third party. The slave kids seeing an actual act of rebellion against their establishment, not the empire, is the truth that gives way to the force user, not just a bed time story they tell themselves about something that might be happening light years away.
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Jan 15, 2018 19:47
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Finn rescued a bunch of slaves . The humanoid ones were also inspired . So a big win.
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Jan 15, 2018 19:50
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CelticPredator posted:Yes this is what they were trying to do. That's what Finn was trying to do. Except his lasers got melted from the heat. How did his metal skimmer start melting before his hair caught fire and flesh began to sear because didn't those things have an open cockpit? lol TLJ took "black don't crack" to another level.
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Jan 15, 2018 19:52
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bushisms.txt posted:It's actually the opposite, faith leads to telekinesis. Rey doesn't overly use the force until she's told it's actually real. And since she believes in that more than herself, she can literally move mountains. I never claimed they were out to raise awareness, the film states (the ring) that their actions have sparked something which results in a force user. You conflated that to a "marketing effort," when the brand was not even a thing until these actions happened. What you keep missing is that you don't actually refer to any kind of spiritual insight or wisdom these characters possess. And they don't possess anything like that. Rey's character is a dullard and the kid still plays with toys. There's been a noticeable shift in Star Wars' pop spirituality from the New Age nonsense to something much more insubstantial. This is best summed up when Rey reveals that she doesn't know what the Force is. Yet she's capable of using telekinesis, which is granted by faith. But if you only gain that ability by belief, and Rey doesn't know what God is, what does she actually believe in? The answer becomes clear when you think with all the awed references to past and present heroics of Jedi and their associate, and crystallized with that kid re-enacting Luke's last stand: Rey and the kid don't worship God, they worship the idea of Jedi. You end up making the connection yourself here: bushisms.txt posted:Because most of the Galaxy doesn't know Jedi Masters. They have stories and legends. We first see Rey sitting in the wreck of a war in tfa and she still doesn't believe Jedi are real until she meets living legend Han Solo which is confirmed through a third party. The slave kids seeing an actual act of rebellion against their establishment, not the empire, is the truth that gives way to the force user, not just a bed time story they tell themselves about something that might be happening light years away. You keep saying that Finn and Rose informing the slave kids of the Resistance is part of their spiritual awakening, and it's perfectly in line with the above: worship of the Jedi is synonymous with worship of the Resistance. I should also point out the obvious by noting that the idea of faith granting telekinesis is very dumb, and it's part of what makes Star Wars bad. BravestOfTheLamps fucked around with this message at 19:58 on Jan 15, 2018 |
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Jan 15, 2018 19:56
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Rey is basically Pete Davidson's "Chad" character from SNL General Dog fucked around with this message at 20:04 on Jan 15, 2018 |
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Jan 15, 2018 20:01
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BravestOfTheLamps posted:What you keep missing is that you don't actually refer to any kind of spiritual insight or wisdom these characters possess. And they don't possess anything like that. Rey's character is a dullard and the kid still plays with toys. Defining God is a thing that people interested in the subject do first with great difficulty, before realizing it is impossible. quote:
In The Mahabharata, meditation and penances lead to characters being granted powers which can destroy whole planets and universes directly by Brahma, Vishnu, and Shiva. The protagonist is advised directly by Krishna.
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Jan 15, 2018 20:07
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Hodgepodge posted:Defining God is a thing that people interested in the subject do first with great difficulty, before realizing it is impossible. Rey doesn't even know that there is a God, she thinks that "God" is just a name for telekinesis and mind control. Or in other words, for her the Jedi are God. Hodgepodge posted:In The Mahabharata, meditation and penances lead to characters being granted powers which can destroy whole planets and universes directly by Brahma, Vishnu, and Shiva. The protagonist is advised directly by Krishna. Are you trying to equate a bunch of mediocre sci-fi movies with an actual religious epic? Because that's rather overestimating Star Wars. BravestOfTheLamps fucked around with this message at 20:19 on Jan 15, 2018 |
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Jan 15, 2018 20:13
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lol why are you here arguing about Star Wars if you think it's dumb.
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Jan 15, 2018 20:14
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BravestOfTheLamps posted:Rey doesn't even know that there is a God, she thinks that "God" is just a name for telekinesis and mind control. Or in other words, for her the Jedi are God. She understands that she has supernatural powers, but she does not understand how they came about. quote:Are you trying to equate a bunch of mediocre sci-fi movies with an actual religious epic? Because that's rather overestimating Star Wars. You overestimate yourself.
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Jan 15, 2018 20:17
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Hodgepodge posted:She understands that she has supernatural powers, but she does not understand how they came about. As already pointed out, supernatural powers in Star Wars come from faith - and since she doesn't know there is a God, she must have faith in some other supernatural force instead. And that's the Jedi and the Rebellion. euphronius posted:lol why are you here arguing about Star Wars if you think it's dumb. This is the movie discussion board.
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Jan 15, 2018 20:21
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BravestOfTheLamps posted:As already pointed out, supernatural powers in Star Wars come from faith - and since she doesn't know there is a God, she must have faith in some other supernatural force instead. And that's the Jedi and the Rebellion. KYLO REN: You need a teacher! I can show you the ways of the Force! REY: The Force. Rey closes her eyes for a long beat. When Rey opens them, she is centered, fortified, and she POUNDS BACK, SINGLE HANDED SWIPES, hitting Ren's gnarly, spitting saber with incredible FORCE. It's so fast now, so furious, that Kylo Ren FALLS BACK -- She ATTACKS HARDER!
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Jan 15, 2018 20:26
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I love JJ Abrams scripts.
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Jan 15, 2018 20:31
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BravestOfTheLamps posted:
But that's what star wars is, at least in these movies. She doesn't need to know the lore or the inner workings, she believes she can do something and the force let's her do it. Her faith in the belief of something allows her to do things is not predicated on knowing everything about it, hence my God analogy. Which is why the film continues to point out that she did this through belief in her self, as her own parents, which is what does in the end to loft rocks. She could of course lift them, she knew lifting them meant she would be the face of the new brand. I'm simply pointing to the text of the movie, I'll leave you to debate the inner workings of how the force should work. BravestOfTheLamps posted:Rey doesn't even know that there is a God, she thinks that "God" is just a name for telekinesis and mind control. Or in other words, for her the Jedi are God. Which the movie proves is wrong headed and why she goes her own way. She continually tried to find the next best thing to her doing it.
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Jan 15, 2018 20:34
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euphronius posted:I love JJ Abrams scripts. Featuring The Worst Pun.
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Jan 15, 2018 20:36
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BravestOfTheLamps posted:You're saying that what Finn and Rose accomplished was a marketing effort. And what's so special about telling them that energy-field-God is real? As opposed to the First Order who are clearly progressive socialists because
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Jan 15, 2018 20:43
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Liberals can bitch all they want, but at the end of the day every star destroyer is a thousand jobs kept in the core systems. Let's get real for a second, the Nemoidians have been eating our lunch--but all these liberal senators want to do is lecture you about how you have to respect some gungan rear end in a top hat who can't keep a firm grip on a loving wrench. Sure, this Snoke character is some kinda religious weirdo but he sent a loving message to those outer rim slugs in Hutt Space by dropping some fire and fury on Jakku, did he not? B A S E D Snoke is watching out for galactic civilization, not laughing from his throne room in some fortress like one of those (((Alderanian))) elites.
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Jan 15, 2018 20:51
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bushisms.txt posted:But that's what star wars is, at least in these movies. She doesn't need to know the lore or the inner workings, she believes she can do something and the force let's her do it. Her faith in the belief of something allows her to do things is not predicated on knowing everything about it, hence my God analogy. Which is why the film continues to point out that she did this through belief in her self, as her own parents, which is what does in the end to loft rocks. She could of course lift them, she knew lifting them meant she would be the face of the new brand. I'm simply pointing to the text of the movie, I'll leave you to debate the inner workings of how the force should work. The movie ends with a bunch of slave kids worshipping the Jedi through toys. This gives them telekinesis. Worship of the Jedi is correct in the movie's universe. When Rey talks with Han Solo in TFA, she doesn't care about the Force - what actually inspires awe for her is the fact that the Jedi were real. As clarified in the following movie, Rey thinks that the Force is just a name for powers wielded by the Jedi. The introduction of "believing in yourself" self-actualization stuff is the logical conclusion of this line of thinking. Rey believes in herself, and if the Jedi are God, then Rey herself is also God. She's a self-made woman, and she worships her creator e: Maxwell Lord posted:As opposed to the First Order who are clearly progressive socialists because You seem to be arguing that the Resistance aren't reactionary because the First Order aren't progressive, and the former doesn't really follow from the latter. BravestOfTheLamps fucked around with this message at 21:13 on Jan 15, 2018 |
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Jan 15, 2018 20:52
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BravestOfTheLamps posted:The movie ends with a bunch of slave kids worshipping the Jedi through toys. This gives them telekinesis. Worship of the Jedi is correct in the movie's universe. The children are telling each other stories from the front, since they're close enough to people who would hear and know these things. They have powers already as there is no great revelation of the force use, the visitation of Rey's disciples was all that was needed for anointing. The story telling sessions are essentially church. And that's very reductionist of the Jedi, since a definition would include "force user." Luke is correcting Rey for thinking the force is only the Jedi's "weapon," not an energy field anyone can tap into if they're so adept. Rey isn't wrong for thinking it lets her do things, but she was wrong for feeling entitled to it as a potential Jedi.
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Jan 15, 2018 22:01
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bushisms.txt posted:The children are telling each other stories from the front, since they're close enough to people who would hear and know these things. They have powers already as there is no great revelation of the force use, the visitation of Rey's disciples was all that was needed for anointing. The story telling sessions are essentially church. Once again you need to complete the sentence and notice who the object of worship is - Luke Skywalker, Jedi Master. Rey specifically represents the shift from the Jedi as hokey pop spirituality to the Jedi as the Hogwarts fantasy. The idea of anyone being able to get the Force is even framed as a young kid with magical potential fantasizing about a better life. The "actual good version" of the Jedi Order you suggested would essentially be Hogwarts. There's even a Mirror of Erised scene, but Rey doesn't have the imagination to actually fantasize about anything but herself, which really sums up the character. Hell, what the movies are going for is the fan musical version of Harry Potter. That's the one where Harry Potter becomes the hip headmaster of Hogwarts after Dumbledore dies. In the fan musical it's a joke based on Harry Potter being a spoiled rotten idiot, but these movies seem to be playing it straight with Rey's witless character becoming queen of magic.
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Jan 15, 2018 22:29
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BravestOfTheLamps posted:Once again you need to complete the sentence and notice who the object of worship is - Luke Skywalker, Jedi Master. Luke also saw himself in a cave suffused with the dark side. Rey wants to see her parents (which is what Harry sees in the mirror of erised), but the film rejects the idea that the dark side grants wishes.
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Jan 15, 2018 22:41
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Hodgepodge posted:Luke also saw himself in a cave suffused with the dark side. Rey wants to see her parents (which is what Harry sees in the mirror of erised), but the film rejects the idea that the dark side grants wishes. This is a bizarre notion - why is important to reject the idea that "the dark sides grants wishes"? It seems like a pre-emptive defense of the "light side" fantasy. The Force is regularly used to "grant wishes" by making one's will reality. If the Dark Side was deceitful and doesn't really "grant wishes", and the grotto represents the dark side, shouldn't that mean that the grotto would be deceitful? We know that Rey's parents really were nobodies, so the dark side grotto is being completely truthful. So the conclusion is that the dark side of the Force is the truth. That there is nothing but Rey is "the dark side". BravestOfTheLamps fucked around with this message at 23:24 on Jan 15, 2018 |
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Jan 15, 2018 23:19
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BravestOfTheLamps posted:This is a bizarre notion - why is important to reject the idea that "the dark sides grants wishes"? It seems like a pre-emptive defense of the "light side" fantasy. The Force is regularly used to "grant wishes" by making one's will reality. The dark side gives power- unlimited power! But rather than that power accomplishing what one hopes for, it simply allows you to dominate others; this meaning that yes, the dark side is simply the one who uses it, and the destruction of everything else. Have you heard of this character 'Anakin Skywalker'?
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Jan 15, 2018 23:40
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