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Judge Schnoopy posted:What, 12 years ago? I don't remember ever seeing somebody in this forum saying virtualization isnt worth anything. I DO remember people telling you that virtualization won't kill off the sysadmin position in many organizations. Which is still true. I think he’s saying that the current “cloud is bad” argument is the same as the “virtualization is bad” argument made by the same kind of people. And I think he’s nt talking about the forums with regards to virtualization. Just comparing the folks who said clouds are bad to those guys.
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Jan 16, 2018 14:51
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Is there really no way to automatically add "busy" or "out of office" calendar dates to everyone's calendar in Exchange? I found a script, and a way to add custom holidays, but the script means each new user needs it run, and they holiday thing doesn't set them as out of office. I haven't even found a third party solution, but it's clearly a common request.
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Jan 16, 2018 14:57
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Colonial Air Force posted:Is there really no way to automatically add "busy" or "out of office" calendar dates to everyone's calendar in Exchange? You mean so it sends out-of-office automatic replies?
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Jan 16, 2018 15:05
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Kashuno posted:All computer related anything is bad, including every poster here and the forums themselves. The internet was a mistake
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Jan 16, 2018 15:26
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nielsm posted:You mean so it sends out-of-office automatic replies? No, just so it shows the day blocked out. We have a problem with people setting up meetings on holidays, HR asked to add all holidays to everyone's personal calendar. I originally was hoping to use public folders, but that doesn't show on meeting invites, either.
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Jan 16, 2018 15:51
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LochNessMonster posted:I think he’s saying that the current “cloud is bad” argument is the same as the “virtualization is bad” argument made by the same kind of people. Literally no one has said "cloud is bad". He's just an annoying stupid poster, just like any diehard evangelist for any product (see: bitcoins, discord, etc).
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Jan 16, 2018 17:10
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Re: Discord. What? It's a chat room. Why does every loving twitch streamer have one? YOU HAVE TWITCH.
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Jan 16, 2018 17:20
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i loving love discord, it's a bad javascript irc client with a bad built in mumble client that randomly stops working for people. what's not to love!!!
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Jan 16, 2018 17:22
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Truga posted:i loving love discord, it's a bad javascript irc client with a bad built in mumble client that randomly stops working for people. what's not to love!!! If its bad, what is good?
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Jan 16, 2018 17:23
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CLAM DOWN posted:Literally no one has said "cloud is bad". He's just an annoying stupid poster, just like any diehard evangelist for any product (see: bitcoins, discord, etc). I know, the guys is a bit over zealous but iirc the argument was about sysadmin jobs dissapearing because companies will move to the cloud. Punkbob said it’ll happen really fast, others said it may take a whileor not completely. 10-15 years back the same thing could be said about virtualization.
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Jan 16, 2018 17:25
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LochNessMonster posted:I know, the guys is a bit over zealous but iirc the argument was about sysadmin jobs dissapearing because companies will move to the cloud. Yeah, like the virtualization argument, that won't happen, and is an incredibly stupid thing to say.
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Jan 16, 2018 17:27
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LochNessMonster posted:I know, the guys is a bit over zealous but iirc the argument was about sysadmin jobs dissapearing because companies will move to the cloud. I feel when I am 60 people like you are going to still be calling for the end of the sysadmin.
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Jan 16, 2018 17:31
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One can always hope that by 60 I am no longer a sysadmin and am instead spending all my days yelling at clouds.
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Jan 16, 2018 17:36
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Sickening posted:I feel when I am 60 people like you are going to still be calling for the end of the sysadmin. It will just be an easy button placed on a messy unkempt desk next to the MDF
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Jan 16, 2018 17:36
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I never meant to imply that sysadmins or janitoring computers will disappear, my argument was that it is changing and that networking certs are dead end just like exchange admins. Edit: unless you are shooting for high level poo poo
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Jan 16, 2018 17:54
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The only solution is never to get certified. That way you never go obsolete!
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Jan 16, 2018 17:56
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Punkbob posted:I never meant to imply that sysadmins or janitoring computers will disappear, my argument was that it is changing and that networking certs are dead end just like exchange admins. you are a loving idiot please stop with this bullshit you are not smarter than the entirety of this thread and we've all been over this jesus loving christ my dude
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Jan 16, 2018 17:59
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Punkbob posted:I never meant to imply that sysadmins or janitoring computers will disappear, my argument was that it is changing and that networking certs are dead end just like exchange admins. Considering that you still need a lot of powershell knowledge to administer office 365 efficiently in a large company I don't even think that is dead.
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Jan 16, 2018 17:59
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Punkbob posted:I never meant to imply that sysadmins or janitoring computers will disappear, my argument was that it is changing and that networking certs are dead end just like exchange admins. Obviously you're right, the cloud doesn't use networks. It's all clouds.
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Jan 16, 2018 18:05
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No guys, you don't understand, software defined networking is replacing network engineers.
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Jan 16, 2018 18:09
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CLAM DOWN posted:Obviously you're right, the cloud doesn't use networks. It's all clouds. I think his justification was that at the cloud level you push configs with python scripts and devops practices, and you never actually touch devices. And at the local business level networking is all magic and you plug everything into dumb hubs or something? Or each device has individual connections to the cloud and internal networking evaporates into cloud magic or something. And boy howdy I've never ever seen a cisco or juniper switch in real life, no-sir, they basically don't exist anymore!
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Jan 16, 2018 18:09
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what is dead may never die
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Jan 16, 2018 18:09
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Sickening posted:If its bad, what is good? everything is poo poo. i haven't had issue with mumble since the later 0.x versions though, so while it's not as pretty as discord, it works.
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Jan 16, 2018 18:10
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Vargatron posted:The only solution is never to get certified. That way you never go obsolete!  
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Jan 16, 2018 18:18
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CLAM DOWN posted:Obviously you're right, the cloud doesn't use networks. It's all clouds. The things you need to know about networking to use a VPC in Amazon (or whatever) aren't really the same as the things you need to know to get a Cisco cert, beyond maybe the ICND1. Obviously there's still campus networking and WAN, but SDN and SDWAN and cloud/SaaS are probably going to lessen the need for dedicated network admins overall.
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Jan 16, 2018 18:19
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funmanguy posted:what is dead may never die And with stranger aeons, that doesn’t concern you.
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Jan 16, 2018 18:26
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YOLOsubmarine posted:The things you need to know about networking to use a VPC in Amazon (or whatever) aren't really the same as the things you need to know to get a Cisco cert, beyond maybe the ICND1. Obviously there's still campus networking and WAN, but SDN and SDWAN and cloud/SaaS are probably going to lessen the need for dedicated network admins overall. Endpoints still plug into a network device. The network device still needs to interface with a WAN provider. The WAN needs to be configured to route to the VPC. Because there are endpoints, there still needs to be network security and defense in depth. There needs to be a firewall onsite to protect the WAN entrance. There need to be VLANs and QoS to protect and manage traffic. Some people have desk phones and others browse facebook, and all of them click on lovely links in their email. The network admin isn't going anywhere because outside of the cloud, everything still needs to have a protected connection so they can access the cloud. e; and the datacenter network admins wouldn't touch the Amazon interface for networking anyway. They're still working on network deployments inside the cloud to get that poo poo working 110%. Those jobs haven't disappeared.
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Jan 16, 2018 18:28
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ChubbyThePhat posted:One can always hope that by 60 I am no longer a sysadmin and am instead spending all my days yelling at clouds. Isn't that what sysadmins now do, yell at The Cloud? (pity I don't have the "my butt" substitution for "the cloud" installed here at work.)
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Jan 16, 2018 18:29
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I mostly yell at the butts in management.
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Jan 16, 2018 18:32
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Judge Schnoopy posted:Endpoints still plug into a network device. The network device still needs to interface with a WAN provider. The WAN needs to be configured to route to the VPC. Security and Networking are distinct practices. There is some overlap in the skillset, but endpoint security and managing firewalls is often a different team and the focus for security is migrating from the edge to the devices and east-west traffic which is often not visible to the networking team at all (unless you're doing SDN!). The argument that Cisco and Juniper switches will still exist is spurious. Dell and HP servers still exist but if you tried to sell yourself as an EXPERT on Dell servers nobody is going to hire you outside of Dell. Server hardware has been commoditized by smart software. Network hardware will move in the same direction. If you look at something like CloudGenix, I don't need a network admin to handle traffic policy for WAN links or redirecting certain things over the VPN or any of that because the tool does it for me based on easy to understand policy definitions. I don't need to know a bunch about Cisco hardware and BGP and all that, I just need to have a basic peering relationship with my ISPs and then I configure human readable policies about what goes where and falls back to where and so on. In the datacenter SDN means that your physical network becomes mostly static. You configure a very generic underlay (meaning you don't need to use many of the advanced switching/routing features of the specific vendor platform) and then most of the day to day change happens on the overlay either programatically or through a GUI that doesn't require specialized knowledge to use. Consultants and systems integrators will get a lot of the work deploying the underlay and overlay, but many customers won't want to pay to keep someone around who deeply understands all of those facets. The breakdown for our NSX classes is usually about 80% sysadmins/20% network admins. It's going to lead to consolidation of those roles. In general this stuff is converging on the "full stack engineer" role where you probably don't get to be super specialized and maintain your value.
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Jan 16, 2018 18:45
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Most of the jobs I'm applying for, all in the six figure range, are for more converged network / system roles. I'm not denying that is the case for sure. But most of those job listings are still asking for either CCNA or Microsoft certs. They want to be sure their admins / engineers can understand networking, regardless of them actually configuring network devices. Any role will likely pay more for having the certifications, just as they would pay more for having a degree. The certifications are certainly not obsolete.
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Jan 16, 2018 19:00
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Judge Schnoopy posted:Most of the jobs I'm applying for, all in the six figure range, are for more converged network / system roles. I'm not denying that is the case for sure. I have a shitload of certs because I work at a VAR and they give me a lot of leverage, so I certainly don't think they're obsolete. I just don't think having a CCNP is all that useful if you're working with public cloud (in response to the "hurr durr no networks in the cloud" thing) and if you're just now getting started in IT there are probably better things to focus on than getting really really deep on a specific network vendor's technology, unless you want to work for them or a systems integrator.
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Jan 16, 2018 19:08
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have ya'll had the spicy buffalo sauce with your chicken mcnuggets? it's loving legit sauce.
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Jan 16, 2018 19:17
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jaegerx posted:have ya'll had the spicy buffalo sauce with your chicken mcnuggets? it's loving legit sauce. I ate some bad chicken McNuggets when I was like 8 and have literally never had them again. They disgust me.
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Jan 16, 2018 19:20
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jaegerx posted:have ya'll had the spicy buffalo sauce with your chicken mcnuggets? it's loving legit sauce. Honey Mustard or give me death.
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Jan 16, 2018 19:43
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chicken nuggets get bbq sauce, the hell is wrong with you philistines?
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Jan 16, 2018 19:50
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Now that I thibk about it. The last time I ate McDonald's was 4 years ago. The correct answer is sweet and sour. And take a lot of extra packets home with you.
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Jan 16, 2018 19:53
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Sweet and Sour exists and you goobers are fighting about BBQ vs. Honey Mustard? The internet was a mistake.Methanar posted:Now that I thibk about it. The last time I ate McDonald's was 4 years ago. 
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Jan 16, 2018 19:54
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Tab8715 posted:Honey Mustard or give me death. Not empty quoting.
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Jan 16, 2018 19:57
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YOLOsubmarine posted:I have a shitload of certs because I work at a VAR and they give me a lot of leverage, so I certainly don't think they're obsolete. I just don't think having a CCNP is all that useful if you're working with public cloud (in response to the "hurr durr no networks in the cloud" thing) and if you're just now getting started in IT there are probably better things to focus on than getting really really deep on a specific network vendor's technology, unless you want to work for them or a systems integrator. When I see a CCNP I assume it means more "this person knows route/switch enough to hopefully not be a network idiot". The Cisco specific part isn't terribly important vs "This person knows what a Bee Gee Pee is". If they are moderately useful they should be able to muddle through syntax on whatever random piece of poo poo vendor's switch they have to work on. For the network vs network security team thing, unless you are in a large organization or heavily involved in things where there are more stringent regulatory requirements or w/e they are the same persons.
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Jan 16, 2018 20:08
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