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s.i.r.e. posted:How far do you take this? Are you just using "Latinx" or are you also trying/hoping to change how Spanish works? I take it as far as people in the Latinx community ask it to be taken; i use Latinx in the same manner I use singular 'they' pronouns (or any other pronouns) to respect an individual's or group's identity.
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Jan 17, 2018 02:46
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How do you pronounce Latinx? My brain is saying it in a way that rhymes with jinx, but that is probably wrong.
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Jan 17, 2018 02:48
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Bleck posted:How do you pronounce Latinx? My brain is saying it in a way that rhymes with jinx, but that is probably wrong. Just like Latino, except I replace o with x. lah-teen-ex
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Jan 17, 2018 02:52
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Cool, thank you.
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Jan 17, 2018 03:21
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jivjov posted:I take it as far as people in the Latinx community ask it to be taken; i use Latinx in the same manner I use singular 'they' pronouns (or any other pronouns) to respect an individual's or group's identity. And what about members of the Latino community (whatever that is) who are opposed to it on the grounds that it's forcing other cultural norms on their language? s.i.r.e. posted:How far do you take this? Are you just using "Latinx" or are you also trying/hoping to change how Spanish works? It's the latter. The ideal future is where latino or latina are not used.
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Jan 17, 2018 03:22
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Bleck posted:How do you pronounce Latinx? My brain is saying it in a way that rhymes with jinx, but that is probably wrong. I've heard it spoken similar to "latin-eh." Edit: these were Dominicans, for what it's worth.
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Jan 17, 2018 03:23
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Milky Moor posted:And what about members of the Latino community (whatever that is) who are opposed to it on the grounds that it's forcing other cultural norms on their language? The same way I treat people like that one "dutiful wife" twitter account that thinks women should be barefoot and pregnant at all times. I will always err on the side of inclusivity. People sometimes have opinions that run counter to their own self interest (or the interest of groups/communities they belong to) Milky Moor posted:It's the latter. The ideal future is where latino or latina are not used. I've not seen anyone calling for that. Latino and Latina are still perfectly valid and useful terms.
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Jan 17, 2018 03:31
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Unless I missed the part in Star Wars where they went to planet Argentina and had a riveting conversation about appropriation, this isn’t the thread to talk about this.
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Jan 17, 2018 03:43
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GonSmithe posted:Unless I missed the part in Star Wars where they went to planet Argentina and had a riveting conversation about appropriation, this isn’t the thread to talk about this. Maybe in Solo we find out it's actually pronounced "Juan"
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Jan 17, 2018 03:49
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Neo Rasa posted:We do learn a lot more about the force and the setting via her interactions with Luke. A lot of its information we, nerds who have been arguing about Star Wars our entire lives, already knew, but having the that read of the the Jedi were meant to be laughably incompetent/etc. prequel trilogy's events be absolutely straight up the final word on the subject from Luke Skywalker himself? Rey's different experience going into an extreme dark side space, all of that stuff was really cool, and conflict of Luke's frustration with her basically wanting him to save the galaxy by being a super warrior and how he achieves that victory on a smaller but still important was good and wouldn't have happened with Rey was written out or otherwise not around. The fact that the jedi hosed up was fact. the conflict was if it was an intentional decision by lucas. TLJ can't answer that rey's trip to the dark side was so boring she had to narrate it and all we and she got out of it is that the dark side has nothing for her? that's even more boring luke could have been set up in a number of different ways
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Jan 17, 2018 07:57
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Guy A. Person posted:Maybe in Solo we find out it's actually pronounced "Juan" excuse me its Han SolX
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Jan 17, 2018 09:09
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Elfgames posted:The fact that the jedi hosed up was fact. the conflict was if it was an intentional decision by lucas. TLJ can't answer that The Dark Side actually does have nothing for her. She wants a loving family. It can't offer that.
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Jan 17, 2018 09:11
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Hodgepodge posted:The Dark Side actually does have nothing for her. She wants a loving family. It can't offer that. This is a good point and all but somehow I don't think wanting a loving would render someone immune to the dark side. The dark side isn't Sauron, it's not an actual entity. "I want a loving family." "Oh, poo poo, she's got us there." edit: Basically, if Rey desired a loving family, it's pretty easy to see how being able to manipulate minds directly, or use power to make people adore you indirectly, could be a crack in her armor. And that could've been an interesting plot point in a more interesting ST where Rey learns that naked power and compulsion is nothing like genuine love. Too bad though that she's never really in danger of being seduced by the quick and easy path to what she wants. Milkfred E. Moore fucked around with this message at 10:01 on Jan 17, 2018 |
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Jan 17, 2018 09:29
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The Dark Side is all “The last time we tried seducing someone with a family, he ended up throwing one of our champions down a bottomless pit so we’re not doing that again.”
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Jan 17, 2018 09:34
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Hodgepodge posted:The Dark Side actually does have nothing for her. She wants a loving family. It can't offer that. Can't it though? She already knows the force can manipulate minds. It's entirely possible that her path to temptation lies in using the force to make a family in a future movie.
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Jan 17, 2018 10:01
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Rey simply doesn't have the imagination to fantasize about anything but herself.
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Jan 17, 2018 10:19
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Dirk the Average posted:Can't it though? She already knows the force can manipulate minds. It's entirely possible that her path to temptation lies in using the force to make a family in a future movie. That isn't the same thing as being loved for one's own sake. It might be good enough for some people, if what they want is the behavioural manifestations of love or the material benefits, for example. A pathological narcissist or a young child would be unable to tell the difference. Psychologically mature people are able to distinguish the difference between being valued as a person and behaviour which superficially resembles this due to power (usually due to social standing rather than supernatural compulsion), however. Anakin wanted a loving family, but never got past loving a specific person. He was unable to see anyone else's love for him (Obi-wan's for example), and the Jedi were too blinded by their fear of him to offer a true community which could offer him love and respect. The Dark Side does have something to offer those who already have a family or community they love, of course- the power to protect what they love. This is likely to be rejected if the values of that community reject those entailed by the Dark Side, which in turn creates a person whose sense of self is resilient to it. Anakin never developed this maturity, and couldn't deal with Obi-wan and Padme rebuffing him when he fell to the Dark Side. Hodgepodge fucked around with this message at 11:38 on Jan 17, 2018 |
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Jan 17, 2018 10:54
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https://twitter.com/Tcann13/status/953322490733850625?s=17
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Jan 17, 2018 11:19
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Last Jedi bombs in China? For Star Wars, good this is.
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Jan 17, 2018 13:10
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Hodgepodge posted:The Dark Side actually does have nothing for her. She wants a loving family. It can't offer that. By TLJ she’s already got one. What she wants is to be a somebody rather than a nobody, or for her lovely life to be retroactively justified by a great hidden destiny, or something along those lines. Of course, being a spontaneous, rags-to-riches prodigy is actually more impressive than inheriting vast power from your parents, so if Rey had been thinking straight she could’ve quite appreciated the mirror sequence.
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Jan 17, 2018 15:27
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I think her head is in The right place by the end . We shall see in the next movie tho when JJ Abrams ignores everything that happened
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Jan 17, 2018 15:29
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Who do we suppose Rey's parents will be revealed to actually be in Episode IX? My money's on Kit Fisto.
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Jan 17, 2018 15:34
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Tenzarin posted:Last Jedi bombs in China? For Star Wars, good this is. I dunno what they expected to happen when they delayed a release to a country notorious for pirating movies.
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Jan 17, 2018 15:46
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banned from Starbucks posted:excuse me its Han SolX Hxn Sxlx alternately, H@n S@l@
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Jan 17, 2018 15:49
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jivjov posted:I dunno what they expected to happen when they delayed a release to a country notorious for pirating movies. Is it up to Disney though? I thought China pretty much set the release schedule to accommodate their movies first over foreign films. Some Hollywood films end up getting good release windows, some don't. China is supposedly getting better in that regard, but it's still a big thing.
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Jan 17, 2018 16:12
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Teek posted:Is it up to Disney though? I thought China pretty much set the release schedule to accommodate their movies first over foreign films. Some Hollywood films end up getting good release windows, some don't. China is supposedly getting better in that regard, but it's still a big thing. I don't know it for a fact but I think they were offered an opening day closer to the European and North American release dates but turned it down for whatever reason.
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Jan 17, 2018 16:18
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Schwarzwald posted:Rey gives Maz and Kylo an excuse to expose, and then beats the latter in a fight. You could easily remove her from TFA. I am afraid this is not the case. In addition to her own story, without Rey, her opposite Kylo loses much of his characterization. There is no hint of growth, nor backstory via flashback. He has no rival, no opposite, against which to play. We lose the interrogation scene, which establishes much of his character. We lose his entire attempt at assuming Luke's mantel via his demands that she let him teach her. Kylo is more interested and invested the moment he hears that there's a girl involved. The entire film would require extensive rewrites to exclude her. FN is paired against Phasma, who despite her excellent and appealing design, is wasted as a character. Even with him fully present in the film, she is literally shoved into the garbage. His story is essentially over once the loop formed by Poe killing FN's fellow trooper and being marked with blood in the opening massacre is closed by Poe's "death" on Jakku and the acquisition of Poe's jacket, in place of his now stained and discarded armor. Which is right when Rey takes over. The film would merely require cuts to remove him after a certain point. The film would be worse off for doing so, however. Toph Bei Fong fucked around with this message at 16:21 on Jan 17, 2018 |
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Jan 17, 2018 16:19
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Hodgepodge posted:The Dark Side actually does have nothing for her. She wants a loving family. It can't offer that. no but it could offer the power to stabilize the galaxy so that she could have that family
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Jan 17, 2018 20:03
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General Hux has fallen a long way since his old boss died. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3ittn4f0Em4
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Jan 17, 2018 23:03
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The dark side was manifesting Rey's fear; that her parents are, in multiple ways, nobody. They are nobody in that they are ignominious, and as such she can't look to her past to show her where she belongs in the galaxy. They are also nobody in that they no longer exist, i.e. they are dead. Even if they aren't dead, they have had such little presence in her life that she doesn't even remember who they are, and at this point they're never coming back. She's afraid and doesn't know her place in the world that she's been forced into, and that she's all alone. The dark side of the force visualized and reinforced those fears. Note that Kylo Ren, an agent of the dark side, also reinforces that fear. He says aloud what she's been afraid of for years.
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Jan 17, 2018 23:08
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Marc Bernardin on Kevin Smith's podcast pointed out that Kylo Ren was using "negging" PUA techniques to try to get Rey to join him and now shirtless Forcetiming gets even more funny
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Jan 17, 2018 23:28
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Fhate posted:The dark side was manifesting Rey's fear; that her parents are, in multiple ways, nobody. They are nobody in that they are ignominious, and as such she can't look to her past to show her where she belongs in the galaxy. They are also nobody in that they no longer exist, i.e. they are dead. Even if they aren't dead, they have had such little presence in her life that she doesn't even remember who they are, and at this point they're never coming back. She's afraid and doesn't know her place in the world that she's been forced into, and that she's all alone. The dark side of the force visualized and reinforced those fears. Note that Kylo Ren, an agent of the dark side, also reinforces that fear. He says aloud what she's been afraid of for years. The dark side is thus truth.
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Jan 18, 2018 00:12
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The Dark Side is ultimately selfishness. It offered her endless self-obsession, which ultimately could not give her what she really wanted.
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Jan 18, 2018 00:25
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The way the ST has dealt with the identity of Rey's parents is one of the lamest things about it and one of its biggest misunderstandings of the fundamentals of the series. Nobody's parents are nobody. Nobody comes from nowhere. That's one of the main thrusts of the original saga and its use of parents and lineage as thematic devices. In the original trilogy, Luke starts out thinking he's a nobody on a nothing planet in the middle of nowhere, but then he finds out he's actually the heir to a great heroic destiny. This isn't to be taken literally. Sure, in-universe Luke turns out to be a special person with a magical wizard for a father, but this is actually part of a larger metaphor. We're all Luke Skywalker, no matter who we are, where we come from, or who our parents were. We're all the inheritors of the past, of a great legacy, of a history built by those who came before us, and it's up to us to come to terms with that and figure out how we're going to relate with that past and build our own identity from it. Luke's father is a symbol both of impossible goodness and of impossible evil, and Luke has to somehow harmonize those great contradictions into a coherent whole in order to move forward and create a new future. This is a metaphor for own history, be it the history of our family, our country, our world, or our species--the history of every single one is riddled with instances of great good and great evil. We all inherit a mixed legacy. What does that mean? What do we do that information? How do we move forward? That's what Star Wars is about. That's why Lucas always conceptualized it as a family soap opera continuing down through the generations. The parents of the hero are by design always these mythological, larger-than-life figures, symbols of a past that must be grappled with for good or ill, rife with symbolic meaning, a historical lineage leading back directly to God at the very beginning. Again, the ST doesn't seem to understand this and takes everything that came before extremely literally, and so it mistakenly thinks a subversion is called for, in order to democratize the universe away from its elitist origins. But really, what the ST is inadvertently saying now is that Rey does comes from nowhere; history is in reality a meaningless, small, and petty thing--nothing but a couple of addicts scrounging around in the dirt for their next fix. Rey's struggle is now seemingly based around overcoming that knowledge and building a heroic identity as somebody in spite of it. But that's not true to the way I'd argue things actually are, and it's not true to the themes of the series. No one comes from nowhere. The past is important. It looms large and grand; it doesn't diminish into a pathetic nothingness. One doesn't built an identity ex nihilo, from a place outside of history. As the main hero of the trilogy and the standard bearer of the mythological mode, Rey's origin is incoherent. For a Han Solo or a Finn, who are the sort of non-magical characters whose job it is to complement this mythological mode by representing the themes of the series in a more down-to-earth context, it would make some sense--but not for Rey. So basically the best case scenario is that Rey learns that, regardless of the literal reality, that's not who her parents were. Okay, fine. So then the entire point of this trilogy was in moving from the mundane back to the mythological, in a very self-conscious way. I personally just find that aesthetically displeasing for a Star Wars story, which I think should start out and stay mythological all the way through, and use that storytelling mode to deal with larger real-world issues. We already had the "I'm a nobody, oh wait no I'm not" arc back in A New Hope, and it was done much more economically (it took up about fifteen minutes of the movie tops) while still remaining within the proper mythological storytelling mode throughout. It's pointless for the ST to waste all this time just to re-affirm that Star Wars is, in fact, a myth. Like so much else in this trilogy so far, it's just so boringly meta. Anyway, this is how I've always seen things, and that's why I don't find this supposedly groundbreaking reveal to be very interesting. It's just yet another in a long string of creative decisions that serve to de-mythologize the series and bring it down to the level of the mundane and of franchise self-analysis. It's a departure from convention just for the sake of being a departure from convention. To be honest, I simply don't even believe anyone involved in the story truly ever thought for a moment about what the departure was actually saying from a larger mythological standpoint. I don't think there was ever a strong game plan.
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Jan 18, 2018 00:40
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Wheat Loaf posted:Who do we suppose Rey's parents will be revealed to actually be in Episode IX? Rey is a clone, grown in a test tube. Her parents are literally no-one. Turns out the final movie will feature a clone army made of Reys, called Reyturn of the clones.
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Jan 18, 2018 00:50
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What she wants is to re-establish theocracy. The dark side cave scene is bad, partly because it's not clear what it's there for. This leads to the strangely self-contradictory interpretations - for example, nobody can agree if it's supposed to be a scene of fantasy or of spiritual truth. It's apparently about a Satanic power tempting the heroine, and illustrating the narcissism of such promises... but is not actually able to show anything to beguile or seduce her, and at the same time is telling the truth to her in a therapeutic manner, by showing the unacknowledged fear that her parents are nobodies. In other words, Satan is too dumb to tempt the heroine. BravestOfTheLamps fucked around with this message at 01:02 on Jan 18, 2018 |
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Jan 18, 2018 00:56
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There was nothing in there that she didn't take with her.
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Jan 18, 2018 00:57
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BravestOfTheLamps posted:What she wants is to re-establish theocracy. You know a scene is successful when you need a voice over explaining it.
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Jan 18, 2018 01:00
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The interpretation that it's all what Rey is imagining would imply that her character is so dull that she can't even fantasize about anything but herself. e: And since she afterwards still believes the fantasy of being a hero as part of the Resistance, doesn't that mean that she hasn't rejected selfishness? She still thinks she's saving the universe as part of an aristocrat's private army. BravestOfTheLamps fucked around with this message at 01:13 on Jan 18, 2018 |
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Jan 18, 2018 01:00
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or maybe Kylo was simply lying to her about her parents
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Jan 18, 2018 01:08
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