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I'm honestly shocked there wasn't some weirdly janky workaround to beating Emil. I was expecting those Emil heads to not be breakable, because he uses magic instead of tech....! posted:Emil deserved it. Retribution for the Aerie. Oh great, now we're back on 'you look like the guy who did it so we hate you' track again. Did you learn nothing from Devola and Popola?
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Jan 18, 2018 23:08
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RareAcumen posted:I'm honestly shocked there wasn't some weirdly janky workaround to beating Emil. I was expecting those Emil heads to not be breakable, because he uses magic instead of tech. It's completely different. Each Devola and Popola are created as distinct beings. They do not have each other's memories. Each Emil is a clone that has the memories of the original. From here, we get into the realm of philosophy. It is argued by many philosophers that we are our memories. So if a clone has your memories, that clone is you for all intents and purposes since the actual body that contains your memories doesn't matter. Counterintuitive, I know. So it's not a matter of the Emil clones merely looking like the original; they each are the original and his sins are theirs.
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Jan 18, 2018 23:24
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...! posted:It's completely different. Each Devola and Popola are created as distinct beings. They do not have each other's memories. Each Emil is a clone that has the memories of the original. Except it's stated by Emil that his memories have degraded. In the weapon story we just got, it's mentioned that copying the original's memories over and over has caused them to degrade, so the latest generation of clones doesn't really know the goal or purpose of the original. The memories are still there, but incomplete. Even when you complete his quest, he doesn't seem to really remember Kaine or Nier, he just remembers that there used to be someone important to him. His clones are not him. They are reflections of him, but when you reflect an image over and over and over, it eventually fades to be unrecognizable.
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Jan 18, 2018 23:47
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Emil's memories blur each time he splits/clones himself. It becomes more difficult with each subsequent clone to recognize every Emil as equivalent beings to the original Emil. e:f,b
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Jan 18, 2018 23:49
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...! posted:It's completely different. Each Devola and Popola are created as distinct beings. They do not have each other's memories. Each Emil is a clone that has the memories of the original. careful there charle cumboat
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Jan 19, 2018 01:25
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Do we ever get an explanation for the giant Emil heads in the desert?
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Jan 19, 2018 01:43
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MysticalMachineGun posted:Do we ever get an explanation for the giant Emil heads in the desert? Wouldn't we all be better of if we never did?
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Jan 19, 2018 01:44
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ultrafilter posted:Wouldn't we all be better of if we never did? Probably. So that's probably not what's going to happen.
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Jan 19, 2018 01:51
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I don't recall that we get any sort of exposition, but it's clear that they are just another iteration of the forces Emil cloned of himself to fight the alien hordes. They're chillin' on dunes because wouldn't you?
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Jan 19, 2018 03:02
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If Emil clones are to be considered as any less than the original, then I've got bad news for 2B and 9S. Uh, well, I suppose it doesn't matter all that much for 2B anymore, but 9S might want to be careful around those vending machine teleporter things in the future. None of this actually matters though because machines and androids are no different from very advanced clockwork mechanisms, and aren't actually self-aware in the least. Everything that's happened so far is just a giant mechanical puppet show watched by no one that has been going on for millennia after the ones that wound up the mechanism kicked the bucket.
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Jan 19, 2018 03:09
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MadBimber posted:careful there charle cumboat Wow, that was uncalled for.
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Jan 19, 2018 04:25
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Also: can A2 pet the pods?
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Jan 19, 2018 04:33
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Deep Dish Fuckfest posted:If Emil clones are to be considered as any less than the original, then I've got bad news for 2B and 9S. Uh, well, I suppose it doesn't matter all that much for 2B anymore, but 9S might want to be careful around those vending machine teleporter things in the future. 2B and 9S are different. Rather than copying a single file over and over and over, there is a single master file that is copied once for each iteration. Also, each time they are backed up, the original file is deleted, and the fresh new file is put in place. It's the difference between copying a jpeg, and then copying the copy, and then copying the copy, and then copying the copy, and then copying the copy, and then copying the copy, every time you need a new copy, you copy the last copy.... Versus copying the source jpeg every time you need a new copy.
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Jan 19, 2018 04:42
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I have literally no idea what you're trying to say. Something about jpeg artifacts and lossy compression? But then that doesn't make much sense because doing the "copy master file -> do things -> replace the master file" thing multiple time is exactly the same as making copies of copies. Besides, Emil is a smart boy and he'd use pngs.
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Jan 19, 2018 05:02
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I think for the purposes of Nier Automata storyline there's a line of consciousness that's presumed to be preserved across teleporters/uploads/ect. It's only when the line is broken (9S dying in the prologue) or altered (Emil's mental degradation via copy) that you can start to say that the new version is a different 'person'.Deep Dish Fuckfest posted:None of this actually matters though because machines and androids are no different from very advanced clockwork mechanisms, and aren't actually self-aware in the least.
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Jan 19, 2018 05:32
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Technically true because the humans are currently all dead.
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Jan 19, 2018 05:34
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YggiDee posted:Also: can A2 pet the pods? She can iirc. They don't have any different dialogue.
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Jan 19, 2018 05:52
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Deep Dish Fuckfest posted:If Emil clones are to be considered as any less than the original, then I've got bad news for 2B and 9S. Uh, well, I suppose it doesn't matter all that much for 2B anymore, but 9S might want to be careful around those vending machine teleporter things in the future. Mikhail is watching. He's making sure there aren't any goddamn wyvern machines.
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Jan 19, 2018 06:10
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Humankind and machinekind and androidkind and emilkind are all equally doomed The only thing that might survive are the cross-dinensional androids, and even that isn’t certain
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Jan 19, 2018 09:05
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Deep Dish Fuckfest posted:If Emil clones are to be considered as any less than the original, then I've got bad news for 2B and 9S. Uh, well, I suppose it doesn't matter all that much for 2B anymore, but 9S might want to be careful around those vending machine teleporter things in the future. Wow, it's like you literally have taken the exact OPPOSITE message from this game. I love how this game can be summed up as "P-zombies are bullshit."
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Jan 19, 2018 09:29
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Jetrauben posted:Wow, it's like you literally have taken the exact OPPOSITE message from this game.
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Jan 19, 2018 09:37
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Indeterminacy posted:Well... both that statement and the idea that androids and machines are basically exactly the same as humans can be true at the same time. Humans are basically just mindless meat machines too following a purpose implanted in us by an imperfect copying system thousands of years old that is no longer relevant to our present day existence. Meat machines, arguable, but mindless? We're the gold standard for minds. We're the only standard for minds we've got at the moment, as it works out. (Well, a parrot asked what color he was once, so he's a maybe.) That's one of the fundamental ironies of human existence. A creature fully aware of its own ridiculous nature.
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Jan 19, 2018 10:03
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Crows can use tools, remember faces, ask friends for help and can associate your ugly mug with food or violence against them. They also like shiny things and understand the concept of "fun"
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Jan 19, 2018 13:06
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Billzasilver posted:Humankind and machinekind and androidkind and emilkind are all equally doomed Hey now, I'd like to remind you that the moose and boar alliance is still going strong!
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Jan 19, 2018 13:09
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boars have survived like 4 different consecutive apocalypses and are still assholes. next yoko taro game will just be about boars
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Jan 19, 2018 13:14
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chiasaur11 posted:Meat machines, arguable, but mindless?
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Jan 19, 2018 13:15
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Augus posted:boars have survived like 4 different consecutive apocalypses and are still assholes. So is the unspoken assumption here that moose went extinct and re-evolved at some point over the last ten thousand years?
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Jan 19, 2018 15:03
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Augus posted:boars have survived like 4 different consecutive apocalypses and are still assholes. first weapon story: gently caress YOU, I'M A BOAR gently caress YOU, I'M A BOAR gently caress YOU I'M A BOAR
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Jan 19, 2018 15:06
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it'll be a war between the moose and the boars and then it will be revealed that the moose are actually boars and the boars are the real moose but that's just scratching the surface
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Jan 19, 2018 15:06
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Augus posted:boars have survived like 4 different consecutive apocalypses and are still assholes. Taro's next game will just be Tokyo Jungle.
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Jan 19, 2018 17:08
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Know Such Peace posted:It's arguable. Determinism vs. Free Will Not really the same argument as mindless or not.
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Jan 19, 2018 20:05
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I am a p-zombie.
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Jan 19, 2018 20:12
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MadBimber posted:careful there charle cumboat Don't do this.
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Jan 19, 2018 23:58
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Hi there. So I first found this series through looking up the NieR LP on complete accident a few years ago, probably when I was too young to know about all of this to be honest, and I've been lurking and reading through the series ever since. It's only now that I've actually caught up with one of these before it finished, so I just want to say thanks for introducing me to this series and that you've done a great job guiding us all through it. Now, I guess it's time to stick Mr. Yoko's Wild Ride to at least a temporary end.
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Jan 20, 2018 06:13
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Fastball LIVE in concert posted:Taro's next game will just be Tokyo Jungle. Did you know: Tokyo Jungle has a story mode?
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Jan 20, 2018 06:32
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Archenteron posted:Did you know: Tokyo Jungle has a story mode? Yessir! Featuring a lot of cute dogs, chicks and raptors and robodogs!
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Jan 20, 2018 07:56
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Seeing Emil's war wagon is almost worth stealing from him in the first place.
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Jan 21, 2018 17:58
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So possible spoilers, but Miracle of Sound just posted something y'all might want to look at. [um. afraid there's nothing "possible" about this. come back later or try the thread in Games. -fedule] Somebody fucked around with this message at 21:49 on Jan 21, 2018 |
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Jan 21, 2018 20:21
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That totally has spoilers from a few cutscenes we haven't gotten to yet
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Jan 21, 2018 20:25
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Oh, that reminds me. For the first time in forever, youtube actually suggested something useful and this thing popped up for me a little while ago. It's kinda good. No spoilers in the video itself, but I'm sure you all know how this works by now. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RsWX6GYSTxc
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Jan 21, 2018 20:42
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