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Pener Kropoopkin posted:It's impossible to be a Fukuyaman because the contradictions inherent to capitalism won't resolve themselves by just letting the machinery continue to operate. At some point there will be a major crisis which throws off the path of history. He’s still pumping out books. I have no idea what he’s writing. Science fiction, maybe.
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Jan 19, 2018 13:09
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Pener Kropoopkin posted:It's impossible to be a Fukuyaman because the contradictions inherent to capitalism won't resolve themselves by just letting the machinery continue to operate. At some point there will be a major crisis which throws off the path of history. I mean sure maybe so but the remarkable thing about this present era is that... there hasn't been any big rupture? The surreal thing is that these Nazis popped up and there's Trump embarrassing himself, but it still all feels like play-acting and the system is still grinding onward without any real change. What's the difference between Trump and Macron? Macron is cracking down on immigrants with ferocity. Now this is also an indictment. BrutalistMcDonalds has issued a correction as of 13:20 on Jan 19, 2018 |
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Jan 19, 2018 13:11
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BrutalistMcDonalds posted:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ButtAWqNpRg 9/11 was a pretty big rupture, and so was the 2008 crash. Because the system hasn't changed at all doesn't mean there won't be a historical point of crisis. There were several market crises pre-empting the Great Depression after all. And the Great Depression was a global crisis that directly led to the Nazi takeover of Germany. And, taking that Zizek video at face value, if communist countries like China and Vietnam are more efficient managers of capital, then doesn't that mean liberal democracy isn't the end of history? If communists can do capitalism better than capitalists, then the future would be to emulate those systems, not to maintain the status quo. Pener Kropoopkin has issued a correction as of 14:38 on Jan 19, 2018 |
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Jan 19, 2018 14:35
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capitalism has faced numerous crises in the past, but it’s always been saved by capital’s willingness to compromise and provide the basic means of survival to the underclasses. this is less and less true today as witnessed by the gop agenda. whether they genuinely don’t realize that they have to give people something to keep the system going, or they think they can break it all and rule the aftermath, I don’t know, but I suspect the former from the general level of intelligence on display. it’s not like capitalism faces bigger and bigger crises until it faces one too big to survive. the system could keep going indefinitely if they were willing to make accommodations to do so (for example m4a or ubi). however they’re too dumb and greedy to realize this and that’s how we get collapse
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Jan 19, 2018 15:03
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It's almost like capitalism has some inherit traits in it that lead to its failure
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Jan 19, 2018 15:21
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Pener Kropoopkin posted:And, taking that Zizek video at face value, if communist countries like China and Vietnam are more efficient managers of capital, then doesn't that mean liberal democracy isn't the end of history? If communists can do capitalism better than capitalists, then the future would be to emulate those systems, not to maintain the status quo. In China AFAICT, there's a more top-down process of assigning firms with economic status based on their loyalty to the political hierarchy. The party determines who gets the choicest roles in the economic system. Then those companies get free rein and the knowledge that the party will put down any grassroots pushback from labor. To me this distinction is pretty minor.
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Jan 19, 2018 15:21
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Pener Kropoopkin posted:9/11 was a pretty big rupture, and so was the 2008 crash. Because the system hasn't changed at all doesn't mean there won't be a historical point of crisis. There were several market crises pre-empting the Great Depression after all. And the Great Depression was a global crisis that directly led to the Nazi takeover of Germany. The problem with "ruptures" going forward is that it seems like they will be dealt with through "efficiency" which could probably just be labeled "automation". Each time the economy crashes, those at the top will grab a larger share of the global economy for themselves and find ways to move on with less support staff. I feel like the US is becoming Kenya over time. There is a constant adjustment to the new status quo and people get by on less and less and the economic gap widens between rich and poor but we consider our country and economy to be stable because not enough people are starving to death at this point for us to register what is going on around us. I feel like, on the current track, we will see the kind of slums, where people who have nothing live, vs the walled off estates, where people with money live, that you see in Nairobi within my lifetime. I know we have a pretty awful situation when it comes to public housing (or low rent housing) in major cities in the US but it can get a lot worse and I don't see us stopping it anytime soon. Just an example, in Sandy Springs, a recently incorporated suburb of Atlanta, they had to force a newly developed apartment complex to create a waiver program for 10 out of their roughly 300 units for families who make $60k per year. We are so hosed.
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Jan 19, 2018 15:44
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Neon Noodle posted:To me this distinction is pretty minor. It's actually a pretty major distinction, because in one case economic power flows from the bottom out, while in the other economic power flows from the top down. The assumption that political donations will keep coming from the biggest market winner still means that it's the top dog of the marketplace that calls the shots and not the political class. In the Chinese case the state still maintains a command structure that checks on the unrestrained power of capital.
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Jan 19, 2018 16:16
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https://twitter.com/leyawn/status/954371153061142528
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Jan 19, 2018 16:18
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DAD LOST MY IPOD posted:capitalism has faced numerous crises in the past, but it’s always been saved by capital’s willingness to compromise and provide the basic means of survival to the underclasses. this is less and less true today as witnessed by the gop agenda. whether they genuinely don’t realize that they have to give people something to keep the system going, or they think they can break it all and rule the aftermath, I don’t know, but I suspect the former from the general level of intelligence on display. I'm just taking issue, specifically, with the Fukuyamist notion that liberal democracy is the end of history. You don't need capitalism to be overthrown for major changes to be affected, especially with all the liberal governments in history that were overtaken by fascism.
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Jan 19, 2018 16:21
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https://twitter.com/KrangTNelson/status/954178734625513472 https://twitter.com/VicBergerIV/status/954374840831668225
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Jan 19, 2018 16:33
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Missionary Positron posted:GQ of all places wrote a fascinating oral history about how punks dealt with Nazis back in the eighties Old punker and I can confirm that this is a valid strategy with decades of proven effectiveness. Pretty fun to tbh.
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Jan 19, 2018 16:43
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KomradeX posted:It's almost like capitalism has some inherit traits in it that lead to its failure this except the opposite, it is flawless enough that it leads to the failure of all other things before slowing down a too perfect a thing causing an imperfect (and human) world to break into pieces~
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Jan 19, 2018 17:02
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Climate change will be the main crisis of capitalism. And it will be a long, painful, drawn out crisis.
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Jan 19, 2018 17:12
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KomradeX posted:It's almost like capitalism has some inherit traits in it that lead to its failure I mean it is pretty contradictory when you think about it!!!
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Jan 19, 2018 17:15
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Cybernetic Vermin posted:this except the opposite, it is flawless enough that it leads to the failure of all other things before slowing down 
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Jan 19, 2018 17:19
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BrutalistMcDonalds posted:This seems like it didn't break out of the Southern California news bubble, but a 19-year-old gay pre-med student named Blaze Bernstein was found stabbed to death in an Orange County park. The search for the killer turned into something of a social media phenomenon with Kobe Bryant putting out calls to find the guy. I know this is from a few pages back but this dude’s wearing a Fedora in his pin-up shot
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Jan 19, 2018 18:10
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https://twitter.com/HuffPost/status/954402787403681792
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Jan 19, 2018 18:20
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Why do neo-nazis always doubt the Holocaust? "The Nazi's didn't kill 12 million people in camps, although that would be pretty cool if you think about it"
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Jan 19, 2018 18:34
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Feldegast42 posted:Why do neo-nazis always doubt the Holocaust? "The Nazi's didn't kill 12 million people in camps, although that would be pretty cool if you think about it" They believe the Jews made it up as part of a manipulation strategy basically
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Jan 19, 2018 19:05
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They believe that the Holocaust didn't happen but should've
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Jan 19, 2018 19:29
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I figured it’s part of luring new people in. it didn’t happen you see nazis aren’t so bad, then when you’ve got them to agree nazis are ok it moves to “but it should have”.
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Jan 19, 2018 19:36
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ocrumsprug posted:Old punker and I can confirm that this is a valid strategy with decades of proven effectiveness. Thank you for your service.
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Jan 19, 2018 19:37
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"jews made this up to manipulate everyone, that's why we need to really do it to them"
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Jan 19, 2018 19:51
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Bitcoin being the leading edge of and largest association with blockchain technology is like if Nazis invented oral sex as a way of testing someone's racial purity.
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Jan 19, 2018 20:38
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weird mike is definitely not crying in this video https://twitter.com/willsommer/status/954436807852285957
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Jan 19, 2018 20:41
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Jose posted:weird mike is definitely not crying in this video is periscope twitch for idiot nazis?
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Jan 19, 2018 20:44
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A $16,000 deposit? That’s like bail for running multiple people over with a car, or the cost of the car.
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Jan 19, 2018 20:50
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not to be outdone by monkey mike https://twitter.com/S_Saeen/status/954435363728183296
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Jan 19, 2018 20:54
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https://twitter.com/shutupmikeginn/status/403359911481839617
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Jan 19, 2018 20:57
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Missionary Positron posted:The moral lesson is: Always Be Punchin' Nazis I just heard someone tell a story about a liberal organizer who participated in the Euromaidan revolution in ukriane. During that revolution, he and a group of skinheads collaborated in storming a government building. A month after Yanukovych was kicked out, the skinheads paid him another visit, and beat him to a bloody pulp. so bash the fash or be bashed by the fash
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Jan 19, 2018 21:03
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GoluboiOgon posted:I just heard someone tell a story about a liberal organizer who participated in the Euromaidan revolution in ukriane. During that revolution, he and a group of skinheads collaborated in storming a government building. A month after Yanukovych was kicked out, the skinheads paid him another visit, and beat him to a bloody pulp. And now those skinheads run the government with the full support of the west because of the Russian boogyman
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Jan 19, 2018 21:04
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Feldegast42 posted:Why do neo-nazis always doubt the Holocaust? "The Nazi's didn't kill 12 million people in camps, although that would be pretty cool if you think about it" Admitting the holocaust happened would simultaneously humanise Jews as victims and give them a legitimate grievance while disproving their all-powerful nature which is central to Nazi propaganda
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Jan 19, 2018 21:13
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A Gnarlacious Bro posted:And now those skinheads run the government with the full support of the west because of the Russian boogyman apparently, after being sent to the hospital by skinheads the organizer said something like, "I don't regret working with skinheads because during a brief glorious moment during the revolution we were able to abandon left/right politics." centrism is a really dumb ideology.
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Jan 19, 2018 21:23
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For a really brief moment we transcended the political spectrum by replacing one corrupt oligarch with another corrupt oligarch.
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Jan 19, 2018 21:40
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MikeCrotch posted:Admitting the holocaust happened would simultaneously humanise Jews as victims and give them a legitimate grievance while disproving their all-powerful nature which is central to Nazi propaganda Also the holocaust makes fascists look bad. If you're trying to argue your views are not insane, it's not a good association to have Not that they care about jewish lives And frankly would be for something like that anyway It's just that it *didn't happen*, because people hold it against you when you are a fascist
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Jan 19, 2018 22:13
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The people the OG Nazis hated are the same people the Neo-Nazis hate: not just Jews but everyone ethnic, the disabled, queers, women who don't know their place, etc. Not too long ago I honestly thought the days of outright homophobia would be coming to an end except among the older, most hardcore religious nuts. Now there are 22-year-olds talking about how homosexuality is degenerate.  I'm also seeing a strain of weird alcohol and tobacco fetishism (not too surprising because they're symbols of the past and of "manly men"). Some of the real hard right dudes forswear drugs but say that alcohol and cigarettes are good.
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Jan 19, 2018 22:29
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It's not called toxic masculinity for nothing.
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Jan 19, 2018 22:33
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Pener Kropoopkin posted:It's not called toxic masculinity for nothing. Excuse me E-Cig juice is non-toxic! 
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Jan 19, 2018 22:39
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*drinking blueberry vape juice to own the libs*
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Jan 19, 2018 22:40
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