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quote:- what are the company's primary values? what characteristics are you looking for in a candidate in relation to those primary values? Why would you possibly care about the exact wording of your upper management's busywork? Rocko Bonaparte posted:more money for us, gently caress you is ultimately what it boils down to anyway. No one is working at a for profit for their "mission".
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Jan 19, 2018 15:49
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https://americanaffairsjournal.org/2017/11/western-elite-chinese-perspective/ seems relevant herequote:One class was about strategy. It focused on how corporate mottos and logos could inspire employees. Many of the students had worked for nonprofits or health care or tech companies, all of which had mottos about changing the world, saving lives, saving the planet, etc. The professor seemed to like these mottos. I told him that at Goldman our motto was be long-term greedy. The professor couldnt understand this motto or why it was inspiring. I explained to him that everyone else in the market was short-term greedy and, as a result, we took all their money. Since traders like money, this was inspiring. He asked if perhaps there was another motto or logo that my other classmates might connect with. I told him about the black swan I kept on my desk as a reminder that low probability events happen with high frequency. He didnt like that motto either and decided to call on another student, who had worked at Pfizer. Their motto was all people deserve to live healthy lives. The professor thought this was much better. I didnt understand how it would motivate employees, but this was exactly why I had come to Stanford: to learn the key lessons of interpersonal communication and leadership. 
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Jan 19, 2018 15:55
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The values stuff all classically intertwines with the historic lack of/resistance to things like workplace organizing and unions though they have hardly been a thing the tech industry. Its particularly explicit in retail where like, Target will make employees watch videos talking about how they have a company culture to work things out and bargaining with anything like a union is against their values. Murrah fucked around with this message at 16:50 on Jan 19, 2018 |
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Jan 19, 2018 16:47
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These mottos might make more sense if your company actually follows the motto. I'm sure that Goldman does follow through on their goal of being long-term greedy and it's understood throughout the ranks. But if Pfizer is raising prices on essential drugs, their motto is going to fall flat.
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Jan 19, 2018 16:56
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I'm going to be conducting the interviews for our next round of interns. Am I a bad person for not knowing our company values off the top of my head? We just make aluminum and aluminum accessories.  Values? Hey kid we'll give you that cold hard cash if you show up around 8, leave around 4, take about an hour for lunch in the middle and write some code that does things. Also we like it if you are nice to be around as a person. 
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Jan 19, 2018 17:19
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Portland Sucks posted:I'm going to be conducting the interviews for our next round of interns. Am I a bad person for not knowing our company values off the top of my head? We just make aluminum and aluminum accessories. 7 hour workday at your place? Sweet 
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Jan 19, 2018 17:31
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Portland Sucks posted:I'm going to be conducting the interviews for our next round of interns. Am I a bad person for not knowing our company values off the top of my head? We just make aluminum and aluminum accessories. I had to write a note at the top of my interview questions that said "THEY ARE JUST INTERNS" because I made one cry when they didn't know an answer and I pushed to get some advanced thinking out of them after they gave me their basic reasoning on how they'd do it and they freaked out. I'm sure it was some me, some them but it reminded me of the perspecctive between kids in college interviewing and business "professionals".
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Jan 19, 2018 18:47
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The CEO just told me "If unit tests can't catch 100% of your bugs, then they aren't worth writing at all."  I can not wait to 
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Jan 19, 2018 19:17
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Lol why is your company so bad
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Jan 19, 2018 19:24
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Or maybe he is saying to write better tests
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Jan 19, 2018 19:24
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ratbert90 posted:The CEO just told me "If unit tests can't catch 100% of your bugs, then they aren't worth writing at all." Can't you just write an algorithm or something that will definitively tell you whether or not a program will halt or not?
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Jan 19, 2018 19:35
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code:
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Jan 19, 2018 19:37
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Virigoth posted:I had to write a note at the top of my interview questions that said "THEY ARE JUST INTERNS" because I made one cry when they didn't know an answer and I pushed to get some advanced thinking out of them after they gave me their basic reasoning on how they'd do it and they freaked out. I'm sure it was some me, some them but it reminded me of the perspecctive between kids in college interviewing and business "professionals". Early in my career, me and a teammate double-teamed our potential new tech lead in the interview. We ground him into a fine pasts across the walls. He left demoralized and assumed that job was a dead deal. Meanwhile we were all jumping up and down to bring him on. His first day was pretty funny.
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Jan 19, 2018 19:39
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KoRMaK posted:Lol why is your company so bad Also: - rampant nepotism - shotgun management - Marketing is in charge of the GUI for our products (wtf?) - An owner that inherited the company and refuses to give equity to anybody And a bunch more things. KoRMaK posted:Or maybe he is saying to write better tests No, he is specifically saying don't write tests at all. The Fool posted:
perfect! FlapYoJacks fucked around with this message at 19:47 on Jan 19, 2018 |
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Jan 19, 2018 19:44
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ratbert90 posted:The CEO just told me "If unit tests can't catch 100% of your bugs, then they aren't worth writing at all." I work with this guy too. Oh you mean it's possible to write a test suite that won't catch every bug, why even bother? I taught myself C by reading Kernighan & Ritchie's book you idiot kids just don't understand what quality code engineering is. 
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Jan 19, 2018 20:49
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ratbert90 posted:Because the CEO thinks he knows engineering because he wrote some lovely C code 30 years ago and now tries to dictate what engineering does instead of listening to his employees. Please tell me more about shotgun management. I haven't heard the term before and it sounds magical.
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Jan 19, 2018 21:31
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LLSix posted:Please tell me more about shotgun management. I haven't heard the term before and it sounds magical. It involves putting the shotgun in your mouth when management rolls around.
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Jan 19, 2018 22:18
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ratbert90 posted:The CEO just told me "If unit tests can't catch 100% of your bugs, then they aren't worth writing at all." How do you hear this and keep a straight face? If my boss had told me that I'd assume it was a bad joke and chuckle.
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Jan 19, 2018 22:56
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LLSix posted:Please tell me more about shotgun management. I haven't heard the term before and it sounds magical. Sorry, meant drive by management.
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Jan 20, 2018 01:53
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Clanpot Shake posted:How do you hear this and keep a straight face? If my boss had told me that I'd assume it was a bad joke and chuckle. It was more frustrating in context because he was trying to be a smug prick about it.
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Jan 20, 2018 01:54
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ratbert90 posted:The CEO just told me "If unit tests can't catch 100% of your bugs, then they aren't worth writing at all." Reminds me of trying to convince some developers on the other-side of the house to use E2E tests. Talking about, set up database with empty schema, insert some data, run a test. They kept trying to make the point that the application HAD to be tested with production data, because real world data blah blah blah. I kept trying to tell them that they as they found more bugs from their real world data, they could add test cases to cover them. Nope, I just didn't understand how wacky and crazy their data could be, there was no point in even trying cause you're bound to miss something! To be fair, I don't even know what their application did besides handle large amounts of questionable data as part of some kind of pipeline process.
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Jan 20, 2018 02:29
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redleader posted:What the gently caress is the point of corporate values? They can be a guide by which the company does business or how the company interacts with its employees. My company actually does follow them pretty koolaid-like. People are nominated for following the values in their day-to-day work and there are winners for each value receiving $100 gift cards at the all-hands. But it only works if the CEO is a true believer in them (like ours) and conducts himself accordingly and makes it his purpose to spread that down throughout the company. We have an all company gathering in August. Watch out for a Jonestown event in Boston this summer.
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Jan 20, 2018 03:18
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ratbert90 posted:The CEO just told me "If unit tests can't catch 100% of your bugs, then they aren't worth writing at all." Rubellavator posted:Reminds me of trying to convince some developers on the other-side of the house to use E2E tests. Talking about, set up database with empty schema, insert some data, run a test. They kept trying to make the point that the application HAD to be tested with production data, because real world data blah blah blah. I kept trying to tell them that they as they found more bugs from their real world data, they could add test cases to cover them. Nope, I just didn't understand how wacky and crazy their data could be, there was no point in even trying cause you're bound to miss something! To be fair, I don't even know what their application did besides handle large amounts of questionable data as part of some kind of pipeline process. I always go with  and reductio ad absurdum. "Yep, just like I refuse to wear a seat belt, it won't stop 100% of injuries in a crash so it's a waste of time. Did you know that you can still skid with anti-lock breaks? Never use them! They don't cover every case!"
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Jan 20, 2018 07:48
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God drat at least the people I talk to about unit tests just act like I am arranging runes with my mouth and walk away. Edit: Do these people at least conceptually get the "unit" part of a unit test?
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Jan 20, 2018 08:31
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Rocko Bonaparte posted:Edit: Do these people at least conceptually get the "unit" part of a unit test? I doubt this thread agrees on the unit.
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Jan 20, 2018 14:47
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I've performed extensive measurements and a unit is 5 inches exactly. 
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Jan 20, 2018 14:59
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CPColin posted:I've performed extensive measurements and a unit is 5 inches exactly. I'm pretty sure my unit is bigger than that.
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Jan 20, 2018 15:33
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"Do unit tests until you're bored" had never made more sense than now.
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Jan 20, 2018 16:22
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Rubellavator posted:Reminds me of trying to convince some developers on the other-side of the house to use E2E tests. Talking about, set up database with empty schema, insert some data, run a test. They kept trying to make the point that the application HAD to be tested with production data, because real world data blah blah blah. I kept trying to tell them that they as they found more bugs from their real world data, they could add test cases to cover them. Nope, I just didn't understand how wacky and crazy their data could be, there was no point in even trying cause you're bound to miss something! To be fair, I don't even know what their application did besides handle large amounts of questionable data as part of some kind of pipeline process. for some strange reason developers and software test people have some sort of tortured affection for logical positivism. one of my big interests undergrad was epistemology, and working in software, Iroutinely come across ideas about how we know what we know that were shown to be bupkis 400 years ago.
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Jan 20, 2018 18:00
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ratbert90 posted:The CEO just told me "If unit tests can't catch 100% of your bugs, then they aren't worth writing at all." Wait, I know this one: tell them that you need 100% test coverage and that that will catch 100% or the bugs. Obviously!
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Jan 20, 2018 18:43
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Rocko Bonaparte posted:Edit: Do these people at least conceptually get the "unit" part of a unit test? Hughlander posted:I doubt this thread agrees on the unit. Kent Beck on what's a unit test
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Jan 20, 2018 20:34
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Volmarias posted:Why would you possibly care about the exact wording of your upper management's busywork? I think this is projecting/generalizing a bit. Yes, many if not most people aren't working for a mission, but it is certainly part of it for some (and speaking personally, it sure is nice when you can!) People (myself included) do work for companies building things that they're really excited about. Profit and mission aren't mutually exclusive; maybe you're operating on a much higher level of cynicism than I am, but you know there are benefit corporations and B corps...
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Jan 21, 2018 22:37
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Today is the start of my new job as a Jr Front End Dev and it's my first time working in a proper development environment. I start in an hour and I'm basically making GBS threads myself.
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Jan 22, 2018 09:26
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You'll be fine! If its anything like my experience; your first couple days will be involving zero work and just learning the environment: - Source control & where the code is - Getting the project(s) up and running - Where the servers are for the test environments, how poo poo is deployed - Meeting team members, managers, etc. - (Important) Learning where the tea/coffee/kitchen place is and how the microwaves work because nobody agrees on a standard UI So relax into that and take each day a step at a time, your mind will be fried, and you will probably want to sleep as soon as you get home because of the sheer volume of information to take in. But it's all part of the process. I've been doing this for 11 years now and the first week at a new place still terrifies me.
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Jan 22, 2018 09:46
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My company has ten core values.
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Jan 22, 2018 12:34
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AWWNAW posted:My company has zero core values. And brevity is not one of them. When a vision, mission, values piece ends up that long, its like they did the whole team brainstorm thing and forgot that theyre suppose to edit it down to something memorable, clear, and actually representative of something tangible and actionable.
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Jan 22, 2018 12:40
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Ape Fist posted:I start in an hour and I'm basically making GBS threads myself. Sounds like youre already fitting right in! 
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Jan 22, 2018 14:42
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Ape Fist posted:Today is the start of my new job as a Jr Front End Dev and it's my first time working in a proper development environment. I start in an hour and I'm basically making GBS threads myself. You gon' crush it. In my experience, especially as a Jr., nobody is going to expect miracles from you - especially not on day one. Just absorb as much information as you can, and remember that it's absolutely one hundred percent ok to ask a shitton of questions. In fact, I think one of the most helpful things you can do at a new job is ask your coworkers a ton of questions. It helps you get to meet/know them, and most people will be happy to come look over your shoulder and guide you through problems. My general rules of thumb are: - try to change up who you ask fairly often, so you don't end up pestering anyone. This also helps you meet your entire team instead of just latching onto the first person who helps, and you'll quickly find out who's specialized in areas of your project - make sure you google non-project-specific problems for a few minutes before asking other people, because it's really embarrassing when you ask someone and the solution to your problem is the first result
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Jan 22, 2018 15:00
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Bruegels Fuckbooks posted:I routinely come across ideas about how we know what we know that were shown to be bupkis 400 years ago. I'm sure you think those ideas are bupkis, but how do you really know.
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Jan 22, 2018 15:08
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ChickenWing posted:My general rules of thumb are: Those are both great ways to get up to speed with a project. I will add one more: - Don't ask the same question twice. If someone answers a question for you, write it down somewhere, and refer to your own notes before you ask a question. You'll get the reputation as a fast learner, and people will be more likely to answer your questions if they know you will actually use the information.
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