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Heresy Air: You'll Believe A Demon Can Fly
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Jan 20, 2018 00:56
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The Phlegmatist posted:oh I guess the prosperity gospel has become a parody of itself in the year 2018 This is evil.
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Jan 20, 2018 02:40
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Yo Tias, I don't mean to put you on the spot or question your spirituality. But I'm hoping you press your Native American shaman on their credentials, because we as an accredited Lakota Tribal University on a Lakota reservation are struggling to maintain our Lakota Studies (language, culture, history) program for lack of qualified instructors. If I may be blunt, whoever is teaching you Native American stuff has at best a tangential relationship to actual American Indian practices. It doesn't pass the sniff test. Lakota medicine men/women grew up on the reservation, speak the language, and live here (and are mostly aged 60+). You don't abandon your tiospaye and oyate to live overseas and teach your ways to the white man. I spent most of my day at a Wiping of the Tears and wopila ceremony for a departed tribal elder who was like a grandfather to me. Again, I don't mean to offend, but there's an abundance of hucksters who spout vague Native American spiritualism because it's profitable, while not actually having any connection to the tribes. Real-deal Native American elders live on the reservations and are old as gently caress. edit: ask them if they are Oglalla (owe-glah-lah) or Sicangu (see-chawn-goo) and if they don't have an immediate answer they are full of poo poo. Oglalla and Sicangu are the main sub-tribes of the Lakota and members give each other tremendous poo poo. If someone claims to be Lakota but doesn't immediately claim one of those groups, they're lying. To put in Tias-specific terms, imagine someone asking you whether you're Swedish or Danish. Pellisworth fucked around with this message at 03:32 on Jan 20, 2018 |
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Jan 20, 2018 03:26
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Pellisworth posted:Yo Tias, I don't mean to put you on the spot or question your spirituality. But I'm hoping you press your Native American shaman on their credentials, because we as an accredited Lakota Tribal University on a Lakota reservation are struggling to maintain our Lakota Studies (language, culture, history) program for lack of qualified instructors. there's a dude in d&d who loves talking about native american spirituality and salting his paragraphs with lakota words (when he's not talking about how in tune with the cosmos he is, and how when our civilization falls we'll all be sorry) he is white as hell
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Jan 20, 2018 03:33
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HEY GUNS posted:there's a dude in d&d who loves talking about native american spirituality and salting his paragraphs with lakota words (when he's not talking about how in tune with the cosmos he is, and how when our civilization falls we'll all be sorry) I'm scraping my head is that... uglycat? I know there are a few dudes who spent time at the Dakota Acess Pipeline protests The general attitude of tribal elders is "white people have been writing our history and culture forever and they can get hosed. You don't know us." Like, I'm a white dude. But all traditional Lakota culture is based on "star knowledge" and if you don't understand that term you're dealing with a huckster. Unfortunately, Native American stuff is very popular in Europe especially but also across America, and 90% of it is bullshit invented by people looking to make a buck. edit: I mean, you (HEY GUNS) well know I'm white af. But I also grew up on a Lakota reservation, now work on that reservation, and most of my students and people I interact are Lakota. I don't claim to have any special knowledge, but I do know how to spot con artists. Pellisworth fucked around with this message at 03:46 on Jan 20, 2018 |
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Jan 20, 2018 03:43
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Pellisworth posted:I'm scraping my head is that... uglycat? quote:edit: I mean, you (HEY GUNS) well know I'm white af...I don't claim to have any special knowledge, but I do know how to spot con artists. (The first thing germans always ask me is why i, an italian-american, began studying their history) HEY GUNS fucked around with this message at 04:02 on Jan 20, 2018 |
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Jan 20, 2018 03:52
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HEY GUNS posted:if your school is so hard up for instructors, maybe you should learn as much as you can, to preserve this knowledge for the next generation and help hand it down I actually spent several hours this afternoon listening to a tribal-member Vietnam vet (and computer science faculty member) vent. Part of my trying to be more culturally sensitive is just letting people (especially your elders) speak. In Lakota tradition, if someone wants to talk, especially someone older than you, you shut up and listen. Even though this often leads into meandering personal stories, I find it's actually very fruitful. The tribe I work for has several tens of thousands of members, and even though I grew up here I don't have any understanding of what life is like for a tribal member. I work for a tribal university: part of my contract is to provide a culturally sensitive education. So, I shut up and listen. The faculty member who passed away taught here for 40 years. There is a huge generational gap based on US federal policy, and we're feeling the effects of that now. 1850s-1960/70s Tribes are settled on reservations. Traditional ceremonies and native languages are mostly outlawed. Children are sent to boarding schools where their native language and culture are literally beaten out of them. 1960s/70s-present Resurgence in Native American sovereignty and independence. Tribal universities founded. Gradual end of boarding schools, native languages are now encouraged. The current problem in our Lakota Studies department is most of our instructors are from a small group of traditionalists who persisted during the early era and preserved the old Lakota ways (pre-1960s/70s). They are mostly dying off and are aged 60-70+ With the death of one our Lakota language instructors this week, it's a huge blow to both our university and the tribal community. There was a strong resurgence in Lakota/NA identity in the 60s and 70s, but this was in large part an independence movement with only partial continuity from older traditions. To paraphrase a colleague: "Many lament how we live in poverty and the system is broken. I think the system is working exactly as intended. We have a culture of dependency. That's the point."
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Jan 20, 2018 04:19
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HEY GUNS posted:it is indeed. tells us we should all reject money and society with one side of his mouth, talks about the expensive cameras he wants with the other. quote:(The first thing germans always ask me is why i, an italian-american, began studying their history) We're local, but not tribal members. My family name is well-regarded locally but we're still white people and thus outsiders. poo poo's complicated. I'm tired and will post more about it (with pictures!) in months to come.
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Jan 20, 2018 04:26
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Pellisworth posted:My family name is well-regarded locally but we're still white people and thus outsiders. It's the dark side of those organic unified communities modern people like to idealize so much.
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Jan 20, 2018 04:31
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When I was a kid my parents got me this book: https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/844522.American_Indian_Myths_and_Legends I have no idea how accurate it actually is, but it was pretty good reading for a kid. I'm guessing they didn't browse it themselves, because the book included some pretty racy stuff near the back.
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Jan 20, 2018 06:03
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There was an anchorite (hermit) who was able to banish demons; and he asked them: Hermit: What makes you go away? Is it fasting? The demons: We do not eat or drink. Hermit: Is it vigils? The demons: We do not sleep. Hermit: Is it separation from the world? The demons: We live in the deserts. Hermit: What power sends you away then? The demons: Nothing can overcome us, but only humility. Do you see how humility is victorious over the demons?
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Jan 20, 2018 07:29
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What happens when you think that transubstantiation could be more literal and your parish needs to learn thatSenju Kannon posted:“remember me i was an ugly dude and now i’m a 7 woman” A fine argument for support of trans people, tbh. ED: that conspiracy chart (what is it, anywyas?) probably maps well to this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sUIcCyPOA30 JcDent fucked around with this message at 09:07 on Jan 20, 2018 |
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Jan 20, 2018 09:00
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Pellisworth posted:Yo Tias, I don't mean to put you on the spot or question your spirituality. But I'm hoping you press your Native American shaman on their credentials, because we as an accredited Lakota Tribal University on a Lakota reservation are struggling to maintain our Lakota Studies (language, culture, history) program for lack of qualified instructors. No offense taken. It would be rather easy to con people here in Europe, and some times we get fakers. Well, my own PoV is that he's clearly an extremely competent medicine man and energy worker, because that's what I know enough about to separate wheat from chaff, and so I figure he has to be tribe or taught by someone who was. Also, our own fire chief and several of our people have gone there as well and met his tribe and attended inter-lakota Fire Dances many times, so we've kind of sussed him and his fire chief out. AFAIK he's still catching flak for doing it from some of his elders, but even they admit to needing the money he brings home. Like many reservations, unemployment, drug use and suicide is through the roof  He's there now, so I can send you his name, it shouldn't be too hard to get hold of him? E: Wikipedia says it's in South Dakota? Perhaps he travels to Boulder as well. E E: Called my healing association: He's Yaqui and the road man is Mohawk, but both were trained by Lakota, and live with them now. *also, he's not all Oglalla, there's some Apache Yaqui and some mexican tribe in him, and they have a traidition of travelling healers and ceremony leaders named 'Road Men' which is what he has done for at least some years. (But he doesn't live here, most of the year on the Pine Ridge reservation in or near Boulder, CA( I think that's where it is, I've never been), serving as their medicine man and kinda community leader. Tias fucked around with this message at 09:57 on Jan 20, 2018 |
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Jan 20, 2018 09:45
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double postin'
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Jan 20, 2018 09:56
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Tias posted:But he doesn't live here, most of the year on the Pine Ridge reservation in or near Boulder, CA( I think that's where it is, I've never been), serving as their medicine man and kinda community leader. The Pine Ridge is an Oglalla Lakota reservation in South Dakota and is extremely impoverished. Boulder, Colorado is a mostly white, fairly affluent, and famously hippie-ish city about 300 miles away. He might well be Oglalla but if he lives in Boulder that's very very different than actually being in Pine Ridge. edit: we can and probably should take this to PMs to avoid making GBS threads up the thread. Obviously I'm not the arbiter of who is and is not authentically Lakota, my point is to take people claiming to be Native American holy men with a huge grain of salt. Most authentic medicine (wo)men are old as hell and live on the reservations with their people. I lived in Los Angeles for eight years and ran into a number of frauds who claimed to be knowledgeable in crystal healing, meditation, Native spirituality, etc. My ex was into a ton of that bullshit and I'm kind of allergic to it. Pellisworth fucked around with this message at 10:26 on Jan 20, 2018 |
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Jan 20, 2018 10:15
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The Phlegmatist posted:It's not classical omniscience, since God would effectively be blocked from seeing the future past the point in time where the first thing with free will was required to make a choice. Oh, that's interesting. I did wonder if I was treading existing ground, but I didn't think it was outright heretical ground. I can't help but imagine that process theologians are big fans of quantum mechanics? JcDent posted:What happens when you think that transubstantiation could be more literal and your parish needs to learn that quote:Dad remembers hearing the bishop through the windows roaring “THE HOLY BODY OF CHRIST DOES! NOT! CONTAIN! RAINBOW! SPRINKLES!” This is fantastic.
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Jan 20, 2018 11:24
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CountFosco posted:When I was a kid my parents got me this book: Looks like the same artist that did Animal Speak, an excellent detailing of native belief in spirit animal guides and even, gasp, how to contact some for yourself!
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Jan 20, 2018 11:38
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Pellisworth posted:edit: we can and probably should take this to PMs to avoid making GBS threads up the thread. Obviously I'm not the arbiter of who is and is not authentically Lakota, my point is to take people claiming to be Native American holy men with a huge grain of salt. Most authentic medicine (wo)men are old as hell and live on the reservations with their people. I lived in Los Angeles for eight years and ran into a number of frauds who claimed to be knowledgeable in crystal healing, meditation, Native spirituality, etc. My ex was into a ton of that bullshit and I'm kind of allergic to it. I hear ya. Few traditions are subjected to more impostors than native north and south american spirit and energy medicine. The weirdest thing about our community here is that we get taught by loving authentic medicine men with a 4000+ year lineage, and people still believe in homeopathy and other fluffy pseudo-science on the side 
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Jan 20, 2018 11:41
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HEY GUNS posted:Yeah. Ossis are pretty conformist so I think I'll always be an outsider to most of my friends. At best they're solid dudes...at worst, they never tell me how they want me to do things and then resent me / push me out for not doing things the way they want. I'm not sure they have any idea how hard it is to be a foreigner. this is also the reason I'm trying to get out of the country posthaste
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Jan 20, 2018 13:25
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I don't get it, why God knowing what you'll do limits free will? It's like telling a friend "you know me too well" because he can predict your actions: that friend isn't limiting your free will and neither is God, who knows us all "too well"
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Jan 20, 2018 14:06
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There is, however, a particularly fowl demon that the Orthodox have yet to conquer. https://twitter.com/AFP/status/954459835420086272
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Jan 20, 2018 14:55
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Tias posted:I hear ya. Few traditions are subjected to more impostors than native north and south american spirit and energy medicine.   
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Jan 20, 2018 15:20
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Yeah, but at least they put in the work to form a splinter church to practice money worship instead of going to somewhere no one has heard of christianity and bilking their marks.
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Jan 20, 2018 15:22
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I am announcing a masterclass in European spirituality for the low fee of a third of your total assets. Learn the secret strands of mystical power drawn upon by this ancient people. My qualifications: 1) I have attended Mass in maybe ten different churches. 2) I am apparently one thirty-second Lithuanian and I changed planes in Vilnius once, so I'm all about ancient paganism. 3) There is a building with a masonic keystone on my block. 4) I have watched videos of Albanian muslims on youtube. 5) I studied intensely with a homeless man in Budapest who kept going on about how God was tired and he wasn't going to be able to hold the sky up much longer, so we needed to feed the pigeons so that the heavens didn't come crashing down on all of us. Clearly he was a holy man of the ancient Tengri tradition. This rigorous training, perfected over years of study, has brought me in tune with the cosmos. Peace, happiness and love are my province. They can be yours too, if you only learn the hoary rites of the European nation. Open your mind and your checking account and the daimones (Ancient Greek word!) will reward you.
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Jan 20, 2018 15:42
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Utorrent keeps spamming ads for articles about Africa's wealthiest pastors, so... But if you want to scam middle class Europeans, it helps to pretend you're an expert in non-European spirituality, because it's better and deeper since it comes from Somewhere Else.
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Jan 20, 2018 16:10
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JcDent posted:Utorrent keeps spamming ads for articles about Africa's wealthiest pastors, so... A reminder that this goes both ways: The bloodiest rebellion in Chinese history was started by a guy preaching the exotic, esoteric teachings of the mysterious Western religion, Christianity. Said guy was also Jesus's younger brother, so you know he was legit.
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Jan 20, 2018 16:24
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JcDent posted:Utorrent keeps spamming ads for articles about Africa's wealthiest pastors, so... Some of the richest men in Africa period are Pentecostal pastors. It's really popular in certain regions. I think that has more to do with familiarity rather than novelty though. If you already believe that witchcraft and spiritual warfare are deadly serious, why would you attend the Methodist church where all they do is read scripture and maybe not even in a language you know when you could go to the New Apostolic Reformation church where they do live exorcisms every Sunday and sent a team to climb Mt. Everest to kill the demonic "Queen of Heaven" that's absorbing all prayers of the Catholics and Muslims and preventing them from reaching God?* *A real thing that happened. Also they're not much for subtlety. I wonder who this Queen of Heaven is?  e: of course every discussion on NAR is "wow look at their kooky theology" and not "wow this crazed Pentecostal death cult hell-bent on infiltrating world governments sure has a lot of pastors on Trump's evangelical advisory board" The Phlegmatist fucked around with this message at 19:10 on Jan 20, 2018 |
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Jan 20, 2018 17:46
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Tomn posted:A reminder that this goes both ways: The bloodiest rebellion in Chinese history was started by a guy preaching the exotic, esoteric teachings of the mysterious Western religion, Christianity. Aw man, that was the best post series in MilHist for a while 
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Jan 20, 2018 17:48
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happyphage posted:this is also the reason I'm trying to get out of the country posthaste
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Jan 20, 2018 20:03
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HEY GUNS posted:East Germany? They are much less uptight than the West Germans. A West German conductor gave me poo poo for attempting to sleep in a train corridor, an East German probably wouldn't. I was surrounded by four cops and told to vacate when I was sitting in front of Hamburg station drinking a soda. That's like peak west germany
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Jan 20, 2018 20:05
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Tias posted:I was surrounded by four cops and told to vacate when I was sitting in front of Hamburg station drinking a soda. That's like peak west germany Despite the conformity, I prefer the Ossis. HEY GUNS fucked around with this message at 20:14 on Jan 20, 2018 |
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Jan 20, 2018 20:10
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Pellisworth posted:The Pine Ridge is an Oglalla Lakota reservation in South Dakota and is extremely impoverished. Boulder, Colorado is a mostly white, fairly affluent, and famously hippie-ish city about 300 miles away. He might well be Oglalla but if he lives in Boulder that's very very different than actually being in Pine Ridge.
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Jan 20, 2018 20:16
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The Phlegmatist posted:*A real thing that happened. Also they're not much for subtlety. I wonder who this Queen of Heaven is? Hillary? Marry?
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Jan 20, 2018 21:00
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JcDent posted:Hillary? Marry?
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Jan 20, 2018 21:12
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Yeah it's meant to be the Virgin Mary (who apparently was also Roman moon goddess Diana) and God told their prophets this. And also God sounds suspiciously like Jack Chick. It's weird that nobody talks about the NAR because they're the fastest growing religion in the world and ultra-Dominionist. It took them about two decades to outnumber the Eastern Orthodox worldwide -- because the secret sauce is that they just infiltrate other churches (mostly Pentecostal or non-denominational evangelical) instead of church planting.
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Jan 20, 2018 21:40
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The Phlegmatist posted:...sent a team to climb Mt. Everest to kill the demonic "Queen of Heaven" that's absorbing all prayers of the Catholics and Muslims and preventing them from reaching God? ... Still better than the prosperity gospel!
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Jan 20, 2018 21:46
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This would be a great series for the front page.
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Jan 20, 2018 22:44
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JcDent posted:Utorrent keeps spamming ads for articles about Africa's wealthiest pastors, so... It was less a serious scam than it was a jab at the notion of a "Native American Spirituality" or of an "Eastern Spirituality." These categories only make sense from afar, and probably can only appear as gross parodies to those inside the (very much different) communities that fall under those labels.
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Jan 20, 2018 23:12
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Numerical Anxiety posted:It was less a serious scam than it was a jab at the notion of a "Native American Spirituality" or of an "Eastern Spirituality." These categories only make sense from afar, and probably can only appear as gross parodies to those inside the (very much different) communities that fall under those labels. "The common theme among African spirituality is ubuntu, which means compassion and love for all human beings. You will recognize this as The Golden Rule," I say as I am dragged into the sewers of Lagos by the Badoo to be used in a blood magic ritual
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Jan 21, 2018 01:51
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The Phlegmatist posted:"The common theme among African spirituality is ubuntu, which means compassion and love for all human beings. You will recognize this as The Golden Rule," I say as I am dragged into the sewers of Lagos by the Badoo to be used in a blood magic ritual celtic spirituality means mists and synthesized flute noises. No human sacrifice here. Definitely no bog mummies.
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Jan 21, 2018 03:12
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