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I think the thing to really take away from this anime is that Satan is a big gay jerk.
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Jan 20, 2018 23:02
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my dude God owned satan really hard
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Jan 20, 2018 23:19
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Endorph posted:the word miki and miko or whatever their names are use for love is the literal romantic word for love, using it for someone you don't love romantically would be super weird and strange. they're gay. they're in love with each other. that is the literal text of the piece. they say they love each other. because they are gay. they turn to each other and use a word, that a japanese person would never use for saying they love someone like a friend. there are a very few contexts where you might use it for platonic love, like if you were goofing around and exaggerating how much you love someone, but that is clearly not the context of the scene. the scene is dramatic and meaningful and the characters know they're having a deep conversation, using the words and phrases they used for platonic love in that context would make negative sense. every aspect of the scene is framed as a romantic confession. No but don't you see, no one on the show looks directly at the camera and says "I'm a homosexual and in love with someone who is the same gender as me" so they can't be gay! DEVILMAN crybaby is 100% straight.
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Jan 20, 2018 23:25
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The insistence that daisuki only has romantic connotations is just wrong, and at this point it feels like an attempt to gaslight people into not making a queer reading.
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Jan 20, 2018 23:49
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I don't think you're using that word right
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Jan 20, 2018 23:51
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Pener Kropoopkin posted:The insistence that daisuki only has romantic connotations is just wrong, and at this point it feels like an attempt to gaslight people into not making a queer reading. Isn't daisuki the classic word in terrible romance anime for 'failed' confessions?
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Jan 20, 2018 23:52
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Pener Kropoopkin posted:The insistence that daisuki only has romantic connotations is just wrong, and at this point it feels like an attempt to gaslight people into not making a queer reading. 2) gaslight them into NOT making a queer reading? 3) lol
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Jan 20, 2018 23:52
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Endorph posted:1) lol Well yeah their sexuality is unexplored and therefore completely up to interpretation
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Jan 20, 2018 23:54
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Solice Kirsk posted:I think the thing to really take away from this anime is that Satan is a big gay jerk. And watch out for the drugs at crazy underground sex parties. The problem I had with thinking much deeper about it: It is so loving ambiguous and contradictory as to what causes people to become demons in the first place, that really it doesn't make any loving sense. I mean it's established that demons are all humans, and that devilmen are those with the bodies of demons and the hearts of humans. So that's one of the few things they state over and over. Yet we have a possibly homosexual cat stabbed to death on suspicion of being a demon, and then it actually turns out to be a talking cat demon who promptly goes and fights Satan.
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Jan 20, 2018 23:56
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pasaluki posted:And watch out for the drugs at crazy underground sex parties. That bit, at least, is fairly simple. The whole thing that makes demons special is that they can merge with other animals and gain their abilities. They’re invading Earth by (mostly) merging with humans, but several of the merges backfire and leave the human in charge because they’re too inherently decent to be subsumed by their animal instincts. The Makimuras’ cat is exactly the same, except that she’s an unusually virtuous cat instead.
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Jan 21, 2018 00:02
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What if God is just gay for Satan, who is gay for Akira, who is gay for Miki, who is gay for Miko, who is gay for Kukun, who is gay for Demon Cat, and it's just unrequited love and destruction and murder all the way down
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Jan 21, 2018 00:07
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Pener Kropoopkin posted:The insistence that daisuki only has romantic connotations is just wrong, and at this point it feels like an attempt to gaslight people into not making a queer reading.
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Jan 21, 2018 00:07
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pasaluki posted:And watch out for the drugs at crazy underground sex parties. I don't think anybody actually believes a cat can be a demon, they stabbed Tako because he's the Makimura family pet. The existential threat of demons is more often used as an excuse to engage in sadism and exploitation. Miki almost got raped by the demon hunters because they were racist, not because they actually believed she was a demon. Demons exist as pure will which can only manifest in physical form by taking over the body of a human. So whether or not somebody becomes a devilman depends on their own internal struggle with demonic influence. The Sabbaths are a ritual that grows the number of demons, because drug & alcohol abuse coupled with debauched indulgence reduces an individual's inhibitions and makes them more susceptible to being a demon. Taro becomes a demon because he thinks the track meet footage of Koda is really cool. He also expresses a desire to become like a demon earlier in the show. Because he's a kid, he doesn't really understand the moral and social dimensions of what he's seeing. Wanting to become as powerful as a demon makes him susceptible to demonic influence. That does raise another question though, since if Taro is a kid that doesn't know any better then how does he resist the demonic will to become a devilman? Is the demon in Taro more human than the others like Kaim was? Are there child demons? Or maybe it's just that being a child makes Taro more guiltful of his new urges after being raised on Christian ethics and morality.
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Jan 21, 2018 00:08
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Expect My Mom posted:lmfao I was literally told that reading Miko as a trans man is trying to deny an LGBT reading, but what do you think the T in LGBT stands for? I never denied that Miko could be bi, because her sexuality is never explicitly stated. In a sense, nobody's is. Not even Koda has a scene where he says that he's gay and he's only into dudes. Crybaby blurs the distinctions between sexualities, and even the importance of sexuality in its relation to love. Why does it matter if a character is gay, bi, or straight? I get that people want to feel represented, and it's not wrong to feel that way. But the central theme of the show elevates true love to a state that completely transcends sexuality. It's a literal trans narrative. Insisting a character has to be gay, or has to be straight, has more to do with your own biases than the text of the narrative. Akira is coded straight all throughout the show, but at the same point it's clear that he has a gay love for Ryo. The point is that we should all be gay for each other.
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Jan 21, 2018 00:19
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i dont have to explicitly state youre being a dumbass for you to be one, but you are
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Jan 21, 2018 00:22
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The first time I picked up on an anime character using "daisuki" was when Sakura said she loved her dad in the first episode of Card Captor. So it can definitely be used to suggest a strong affection toward someone without being necessarily romantic. but based on the context in Devilman a romantic reading seems totally valid and not really a big stretch or anything like some people are implying.  Context is everything.Endorph posted:1) lol
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Jan 21, 2018 00:23
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Pener Kropoopkin posted:I was literally told that reading Miko as a trans man is trying to deny an LGBT reading, but what do you think the T in LGBT stands for? I never denied that Miko could be bi, because her sexuality is never explicitly stated. In a sense, nobody's is. Not even Koda has a scene where he says that he's gay and he's only into dudes. Crybaby blurs the distinctions between sexualities, and even the importance of sexuality in its relation to love. Why does it matter if a character is gay, bi, or straight? I get that people want to feel represented, and it's not wrong to feel that way. But the central theme of the show elevates true love to a state that completely transcends sexuality. It's a literal trans narrative. Insisting a character has to be gay, or has to be straight, has more to do with your own biases than the text of the narrative.
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Jan 21, 2018 00:27
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What on earth is happening ittEndorph posted:ive gotta say 'if you read this as gay you're oppressing queers' is a powerful take This is the opposite of what was said
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Jan 21, 2018 00:29
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Pener Kropoopkin posted:The insistence that daisuki only has romantic connotations is just wrong, and at this point it feels like an attempt to gaslight people into not making a queer reading. lol how can you keep posting after making this post
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Jan 21, 2018 00:33
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Dryzen posted:lol how can you keep posting after making this post But this post was right  What is happening??
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Jan 21, 2018 00:34
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I don't know if you've been reading this person's other posts but this being obtuse thing they do is incredibly obnoxious
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Jan 21, 2018 00:35
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even ignoring everything else that isnt a correct use of gaslighting
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Jan 21, 2018 00:35
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gaslighting is psychological abuse to make someone have a warped view of reality, not disagreeing with someone on the internet
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Jan 21, 2018 00:36
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Sephiroth_IRA posted:but based on the context in Devilman a romantic reading seems totally valid and not really a big stretch or anything like some people are implying. Both readings are valid, is the point. Akira, Miki, and Miko have all known each other since early childhood so there's more than enough room to have a non-romantic reading. They're both valid. Endorph posted:gaslighting is psychological abuse to make someone have a warped view of reality, not disagreeing with someone on the internet Insisting that a word only has one connotation even after it's shown not to, is an intentional effort to warp another person's view of reality. If there wasn't actually an issue of translation, then the queer reading isn't invalidated.
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Jan 21, 2018 00:37
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It's ambiguous. There should be debate over it, but I don't understand why people are getting angry over it.
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Jan 21, 2018 00:38
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Pener Kropoopkin posted:Insisting that a word only has one connotation even after it's shown not to, is an intentional effort to warp another person's view of reality.
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Jan 21, 2018 00:39
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Jan 21, 2018 00:40
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C-SPAN Caller posted:They should make a Devilman Lady sequel to this that doesn't suck, imo DEVILMAN crylady
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Jan 21, 2018 00:40
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also why are you calling your reading a queer reading and not the one that's literally about lesbianism. were lesbians kicked out of the queer word when i wasnt looking.
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Jan 21, 2018 00:41
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Endorph posted:insisting that the girls who want to gently caress dont want to gently caress, is an intentional effort to be a neg bitch That's another problem, because it's never indicated that Miko has a sexual attraction to Miki. In fact, the narrative of the show devalues sexuality in general. The purest expression of love comes from a person that never wants to gently caress. Endorph posted:also why are you calling your reading a queer reading and not the one that's literally about lesbianism. were lesbians kicked out of the queer word when i wasnt looking. Queerness isn't sexually exclusive. You can be queer while being straight or gay or bi, because queerness also intersects with gender relations. A trans reading doesn't invalidate lesbianism or vise versa.
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Jan 21, 2018 00:43
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Endorph posted:also why are you calling your reading a queer reading and not the one that's literally about lesbianism. were lesbians kicked out of the queer word when i wasnt looking. "A" queer reading As in, one of multiple
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Jan 21, 2018 00:43
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she masturbated while thinking of her
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Jan 21, 2018 00:43
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well there was more to it than just that but there's definitely sexual feelings in there
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Jan 21, 2018 00:44
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NumberLast posted:"A" queer reading Pener Kropoopkin posted:That's another problem, because it's never indicated that Miko has a sexual attraction to Miki. In fact, the narrative of the show devalues sexuality in general. The purest expression of love comes from a person that never wants to gently caress. also their entire relationship is framed around sex
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Jan 21, 2018 00:44
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You didn't see Ryo having a sex dream about Akira, but there you go
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Jan 21, 2018 00:44
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I don't understand how you can talk about how your reading of it is being shut down when that isn't happening at all. People are getting upset that every time they try to imply a lesbian relationship between miko and miki you said they were just long-time friends and now that it's not sexual at all
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Jan 21, 2018 00:45
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Dryzen posted:I don't understand how you can talk about how your reading of it is being shut down when that isn't happening at all. People are getting upset that every time they try to imply a lesbian relationship between miko and miki you said they were just long-time friends and now that it's not sexual at all
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Jan 21, 2018 00:46
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Tbh I thought Ryo and Akira was gonna bone in the silene episode
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Jan 21, 2018 00:46
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Miki and Miko are really obviously as gay as Ryo and Akira
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Jan 21, 2018 00:47
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Endorph posted:he literally said 'the' queer reading You called it 'A' and I was going off that, my mistake otherwise
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Jan 21, 2018 00:47
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