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More Autopilot abuse insanity: http://www.thedrive.com/sheetmetal/17834/dui-suspect-uses-tesla-autopilot-as-a-defense-during-arrest quote:According to WMUR out of San Francisco, a man was passed out in his Tesla on the Bay Bridge last Saturday night. California Highway Patrol woke him up and the man assured them that everything was okay because he had his car on Autopilot. CHP said that the man had a blood alcohol level at least twice the legal limit. The police department's response on Twitter is priceless: https://twitter.com/CHPSanFrancisco/status/954418933225762816 I would imagine that even when one is using it where the manual specifically says not to, the Autopilot system is at least slightly less likely to crash than someone too drunk to understand its limitations.
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Jan 22, 2018 03:17
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"More than 2x the legal limit" is a strange line about alcohol levels for a passed out person. Surely you've gotta be at least like 5x the legal limit before you pass out behind the wheel. Edit: vvvv Yeah, what I mean is if they're saying "more than 2x" then they probably mean "less than 3x" which I interpret to mean the drunkenness has very little to do with the dumb activity and they didn't understand autopilot when sober either, and actively chose to sleep in the driver's seat rather than passed out. roomforthetuna fucked around with this message at 04:48 on Jan 22, 2018 |
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Jan 22, 2018 03:47
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It's likely he fell asleep instead of like pukedrunk passed out
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Jan 22, 2018 03:51
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Even setting aside autopilot I have wondered if things like lane keeping assist and adaptive cruise control contribute to drunk driving in the sense that signals that show significant impairment just won't show up until it is too late. I'm a pretty good driver and adaptive cruise control is loving amazing in traffic but there have been a few times where I was a little shocked when my car stopped by itself while I was completely distracted by something else.
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Jan 22, 2018 05:01
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I find it a bit like driving with a moving map GPS, it just pries your eyes off the road.
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Jan 22, 2018 08:33
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Three Olives posted:I'm sure they work for a very narrow subset of users but I think for the most part PHEV are experiments in electric drivetrains and consumer behavior and sentiment that automakers are making consumers overpay for before they move to actual EVs. By narrow subset you mean the majority of people since the average commute is 40 miles or under?
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Jan 22, 2018 14:13
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Dear public EV charging networks: I would like you to stop the account-holder-only model, and put credit card readers on your machines. It makes it extremely difficult to justify destination charging when I arrive at the destination and have to spend ten minutes poking at my phone to open an account with your network while my girlfriend stares at me like I’m a social defective. Let me pay and be on my way.
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Jan 22, 2018 14:30
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MrYenko posted:Dear public EV charging networks: I would like you to stop the account-holder-only model, and put credit card readers on your machines. It makes it extremely difficult to justify destination charging when I arrive at the destination and have to spend ten minutes poking at my phone to open an account with your network while my girlfriend stares at me like I’m a social defective. Also, stop being 6x the cost of charging at home. (At least that is how ChargePoint is in my area of the country) If you where to rely on the public charging around here, it would cost more than gas. I guess it doesn't help that Indiana is one of the states the bars anyone but electric utilities from charging by the kWh.
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Jan 22, 2018 14:46
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MrYenko posted:Dear public EV charging networks: I would like you to stop the account-holder-only model, and put credit card readers on your machines. It makes it extremely difficult to justify destination charging when I arrive at the destination and have to spend ten minutes poking at my phone to open an account with your network while my girlfriend stares at me like I’m a social defective. Totally agree, I honestly don't understand why they do this. There's credit card readers on vending machines, why can't there be on public chargers? Maybe it isn't ~disruptive~ enough.
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Jan 22, 2018 14:52
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I saw some excellent L2's in Orange County that featured a giant screen on both aides playing advertisements. Free to charge with advertisement supported revenue. Great model.
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Jan 22, 2018 15:19
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MrYenko posted:Dear public EV charging networks: I would like you to stop the account-holder-only model, and put credit card readers on your machines. It makes it extremely difficult to justify destination charging when I arrive at the destination and have to spend ten minutes poking at my phone to open an account with your network while my girlfriend stares at me like I’m a social defective. I assume it is for durability concerns and I understand they want to do a membership model and using two cards might seem burdensome but could they at least agree to a card standard so I don't need three loving cards with me to charge?
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Jan 22, 2018 17:14
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ClassH posted:By narrow subset you mean the majority of people since the average commute is 40 miles or under? OK but look at the ranges of PHEV: Mitsubishi Outlander: 23 miles BMW 330e: 14 miles Volvo XC40: 31 miles Prius Plug In: 11 miles Ford Fusion Energi: 22 miles And those are max ranges, I don't know if there are any limitations on top of that but that is not factoring in extreme climates which would reduce the range further, perhaps significantly. Then throw in the additional cost, maintenance costs, charger, etc and the fact that you might be able to squeeze out your daily commute sometimes, on a good day and it just doesn't seem very compelling to me.
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Jan 22, 2018 17:46
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One of the appeals of a plug in hybrid is that the batteries are small enough to be easily charged on normal 120v power. I know it would work out well for me since the first 5 miles of my commute is stop and go to get to the highway, then 9 miles on the highway followed by another 2 miles of stop and go. So, I could use electric on the most wasteful portions of my commute, hum along on engine with the highway, and then electric again to get me the last two miles to my office (which is mostly downhill anyways.) My biggest issue is I don't find any of the offerings compelling enough to purchase.
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Jan 22, 2018 17:54
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Three Olives posted:OK but look at the ranges of PHEV: I too have never understood why they bother with plugin hybrids with sub 20 mile ranges. It seems kinda pointless unless you have a REALLY short commute. I would imagine around 40 is the sweet spot for many people. To add some more to the list.. Gen2 2016-2018 Volt: 53 miles (though in warm weather, this is typically 58-60 and can be as high as 70 depending on driving style) Honda Clarity PHEV: 42 miles Prius Prime Plugin: 25 miles stevewm fucked around with this message at 18:00 on Jan 22, 2018 |
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Jan 22, 2018 17:56
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You should work 5 miles or less from your house.
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Jan 22, 2018 18:18
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stevewm posted:I too have never understood why they bother with plugin hybrids with sub 20 mile ranges. Compliance dollars/cafe credits/etc.
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Jan 22, 2018 18:25
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bull3964 posted:One of the appeals of a plug in hybrid is that the batteries are small enough to be easily charged on normal 120v power. This is an annoying nitpick, but all batteries can be charged on 120v and the bigger the battery is, the more range you'll get overnight, as a PHEV battery is more likely to top out. Big battery + low consumption = more accumulated range over x hours, which I guess makes the Bolt the best 120v vehicle. But it's still a fair point to say that commuting an EV with only a 120v charge point and no fossil backup can be a bit stressful, if you don't get sufficient range overnight.
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Jan 22, 2018 18:26
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stevewm posted:I too have never understood why they bother with plugin hybrids with sub 20 mile ranges. It seems kinda pointless unless you have a REALLY short commute. I would imagine around 40 is the sweet spot for many people. Because half your commute on battery is better than none of your commute on battery? Because now driving to the supermarket or dropping the kids off at school is all battery?
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Jan 22, 2018 18:28
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kill me now posted:Because half your commute on battery is better than none of your commute on battery? Better in what sense? Environmentally, maybe? Economically, doubtful. I don't think the economics really work unless you can handle your entire commute on electric only.
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Jan 22, 2018 18:33
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Elephanthead posted:You should work 5 miles or less from your house.  In this thread, I legit don't know if this is sarcasm or not.
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Jan 22, 2018 18:42
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Three Olives posted:Better in what sense? Environmentally, maybe? Economically, doubtful. I don't think the economics really work unless you can handle your entire commute on electric only. How do you figure. Charging at home should be cheaper per mile than using gas. A lot of places around the country give extra state and federal incentives on any "EV" to absorb any additional lease or purchase cost. I know in NY right now on a Kia Optima PHEV you get an extra $1100 from NY and $4919 federal tax credit. The PHEV version leases out at a lower cost than the regular hybrid Optima here. If you are already getting a hybrid its probably worth getting the PHEV version of it. Lets assume you have a car that's got a 19mi EV range and you use up that range 6 days a week. That would give you just under 6000mi of EV driving each year. I think that would be worth it especially if the purchase cost difference is minimal.
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Jan 22, 2018 18:47
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Three Olives posted:Better in what sense? Environmentally, maybe? Economically, doubtful. I don't think the economics really work unless you can handle your entire commute on electric only. If economics were the driving factor, we’d all be driving poverty spec manual Corrolas. My Volt won’t do my normal commute EV-only, but I get most of it done (~35-40miles of a 44mi commute.) People not only have differing commutes that can result in different cars making sense, but also have wildly different expectations. A PHEV with 30 miles of range would mean my mother would never buy gasoline again, as an example. For me, it wouldn’t make sense, since my commute is two thirds that long, each way. The most freeing part of owning a PHEV is realizing that you CAN use the range extender, and that people that never start the engine wasted their money.  Also, quite a few of the cars mentioned above have speed or output limits to their EV-only mode, which qualifies them more as plug-in hybrids, to me. It’s a very grey market, and black-and-white opinions simply don’t work.
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Jan 22, 2018 18:47
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MrYenko posted:
I start looking into this is and its kinda laughable.. Soooo many of the plugins do really limit the performance in EV mode.. Pretty sure the Volt is one of the few plugin hybrids that performs identically when running in EV or Gas mode. And I think it might be the only one where the electric motors have more output power than the gas motor does...
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Jan 22, 2018 19:08
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Three Olives posted:OK but look at the ranges of PHEV: I thought we were talking about the volt which is going to be 53 miles of electric range.
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Jan 22, 2018 19:10
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stevewm posted:I start looking into this is and its kinda laughable.. Soooo many of the plugins do really limit the performance in EV mode.. Yes, lots of the plug in hybrids are gas cars first with weak rear end electric engines. The Volt is the other way around, it's an electric car first with a decent gas engine when you run out of range. Most of the other hybrids have limitations like you said for electric only, cant' go over a speed or accelerate to hard or the gas kicks on.
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Jan 22, 2018 19:13
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stevewm posted:Also, stop being 6x the cost of charging at home. (At least that is how ChargePoint is in my area of the country) If you where to rely on the public charging around here, it would cost more than gas. I guess it doesn't help that Indiana is one of the states the bars anyone but electric utilities from charging by the kWh. Our local mall has a charging station (Volta) near the coffee shop, that is zero cost. http://voltacharging.com
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Jan 22, 2018 19:23
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Godholio posted:
Dude's right though For the vast majority of human existence you could be pretty sure that you'd be born, grow up, get married, have kids, and die all within a 20-mile circle
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Jan 22, 2018 19:24
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I don’t think any EV (or PHEV) makes economic sense unless there are tax incentives to ensure it. It is hardly a reason to object PHEVs over EVs.
DoLittle fucked around with this message at 19:27 on Jan 22, 2018 |
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Jan 22, 2018 19:25
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blugu64 posted:Compliance dollars/cafe credits/etc. THE CARPOOL LANE IN CALIFORNIA. Seriously, the older Prius Plugin (the ones with maybe 15 miles of electric) were selling on that basis here.
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Jan 22, 2018 19:26
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ClassH posted:weak rear end electric engines This will often be a limitation of the battery, which makes sense. If the battery is 10 kWh and the max discharge rate is 4C, max power (at best case state of charge and temperature) is 40 kW or 53 hp. Tesla got sued for this in Norway (which they settled) because they advertised the P85D as having 700+ hp, when in fact that was the performance limit of the motors, yet the battery could deliver much less. That's the way you want I suppose, the drive train set up for reliability that is, not the unfettered Silicon Valley hype machine marketing.
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Jan 22, 2018 19:38
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Ola posted:This will often be a limitation of the battery, which makes sense. If the battery is 10 kWh and the max discharge rate is 4C, max power (at best case state of charge and temperature) is 40 kW or 53 hp. Tesla got sued for this in Norway (which they settled) because they advertised the P85D as having 700+ hp, when in fact that was the performance limit of the motors, yet the battery could deliver much less. That's the way you want I suppose, the drive train set up for reliability that is, not the unfettered Silicon Valley hype machine marketing. That's interesting, the 17 Volt has 18.4kw battery (not all usable) but still has 150hp, 300lbs torque.
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Jan 22, 2018 19:53
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DoLittle posted:I don’t think any EV (or PHEV) makes economic sense unless there are tax incentives to ensure it. It is hardly a reason to object PHEVs over EVs. Over what time frame? I mean up front cost yea but total cost of ownership very well could be. Also new vs used would make quite a difference.
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Jan 22, 2018 19:55
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ClassH posted:Over what time frame? I mean up front cost yea but total cost of ownership very well could be. Also new vs used would make quite a difference. Any time frame I would assume. Might work with a very cheap used EV (Leaf with bad battery) on a short commute. Or something like Tesla X versus the high performance Bentley SUV or optioned G-wagen. Neither of which make any economic sense either. Ioniq pricing I posted on previous page illustrates the cost of EV gear quite well: Hybrid: 18 k€ PHEV: 25 k€ (EV range 20 miles) EV: 27 k€ (EV range 124 miles) DoLittle fucked around with this message at 20:15 on Jan 22, 2018 |
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Jan 22, 2018 20:12
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VideoGameVet posted:THE CARPOOL LANE IN CALIFORNIA. Weren't prius bumper covers with the sticker selling for $3,000? You could get them for regular ones for awhile.
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Jan 22, 2018 20:15
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ClassH posted:That's interesting, the 17 Volt has 18.4kw battery (not all usable) but still has 150hp, 300lbs torque. If it has 22 kWh, the max discharge rate is 5C which is pretty close to a Tesla Model S (e: around 5C). The unusable energy capacity below 0% still contributes to the power potential when the state of charge is high. Ola fucked around with this message at 20:38 on Jan 22, 2018 |
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Jan 22, 2018 20:23
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VideoGameVet posted:Our local mall has a charging station (Volta) near the coffee shop, that is zero cost. These are starting to pop up near Seattle. I've used them a few times without issue.
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Jan 22, 2018 21:03
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Ola posted:If it has 22 kWh, the max discharge rate is 5C which is pretty close to a Tesla Model S (e: around 5C). The unusable energy capacity below 0% still contributes to the power potential when the state of charge is high. Pretty sure the 18.4 is the full capacity, I think only like 14 or 15 something is usable. I wonder how they got those numbers from such a small (relatively) battery.
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Jan 22, 2018 21:15
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ClassH posted:Pretty sure the 18.4 is the full capacity, I think only like 14 or 15 something is usable. I wonder how they got those numbers from such a small (relatively) battery. If you have the dash configuration set to "Modern Enhanced" it will show the real time power draw of the car in kW (though it rounds everything to the nearest kW). When you floor it, it pegs at 120kW. I should hookup my Bluetooh ODB reader and see if the actual numbers line up with what the dash shows.
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Jan 22, 2018 21:29
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Just because I had never bothered to do it before, I had myGreenVolt running to capture the numbers when I floored it compared to "Idle". This program's UI is atrocious and it was designed with the Gen 1 Volt in mind, so some things don't read correctly. But it gives some interesting info nonetheless. Sitting Idle:  Shortly after flooring it:  125kW in that screen shot. 373 Amps... It peaked at 134kW. The the voltage sagged quite a bit. From 373 to 337. It recovered pretty fast to 376 once I came to a stop. Also of note you can see the real battery SoC% (82.1%) vs what is displayed to the user (72.2%) And then after driving home plugged into my 240v EVSE. 
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Jan 23, 2018 00:44
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Sagebrush posted:Dude's right though So ride a loving horse. He's not at all right, for a lot of reasons. Only way I can live within 5 miles of my job is to buy a goddamned farm or an RV.
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Jan 23, 2018 00:46
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