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Catastrophe90 posted:"All units when they eliminate a unit, they heal up to 20 hit points." i'm looking for a proofreading job, hit me up fireaxis
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Jan 22, 2018 22:04
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Catastrophe90 posted:"All units when they eliminate a unit, they heal up to 20 hit points." the romans, they go to the house
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Jan 22, 2018 22:05
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Tourism also theoretically let you flip cities from other civs, if the AI somehow managed to squander its entire happiness buffer. Come the gently caress on, Firaxis.
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Jan 22, 2018 22:10
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Catastrophe90 posted:"All units when they eliminate a unit, they heal up to 20 hit points." actually that's the completion quote, it's from a yelp review of the aztec jaguar warrior in civ 5
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Jan 22, 2018 22:15
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I'm trying to watch some videos on the expansion but the Cree music is pretty awful. It's really distracting, kinda painful on the ears and is giving me a headache. 
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Jan 22, 2018 22:48
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Some vanilla civs were changed too. Pics here; particularly notable is the update to America. It doesn't change a Diplomatic slot to a Wildcard slot, the way Poland does with Military ones, it changes all Diplomatic slots you have to Wildcards. That makes Potala Palace really good for them and incentivizes them to go Democracy. It takes a little while to kick in, and Charismatic Leader is still a good card to use, but that seems like it could be pretty good. Also, America sacrificing diplomacy to do whatever it wants instead kind of amuses me. Meanwhile, Brazil gets a unique Water Park as well as their unique Entertainment Complex, Sumeria gets more alliance points when they're at war with a common foe, Egypt gets double the alliance points for trading with allies, and Spain gets loyalty in cities on other continents that have a mission adjacent to the city center. Roland Jones fucked around with this message at 23:03 on Jan 22, 2018 |
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Jan 22, 2018 23:01
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Still waiting for the Palestine city-state
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Jan 22, 2018 23:05
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Turtle luxury resource. Leave the poor turtles alone.
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Jan 22, 2018 23:10
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please knock Mom! posted:Still waiting for the Palestine city-state
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Jan 22, 2018 23:11
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The AI can just be so eye-rollingly bad sometimes. Egypt and Norway declare a joint war against me. Norway takes some pot-shots at pillaging my coast, Egypt doesn't get anywhere meaningful and we declare peace. Egypt and Gilgamesh declare a joint war against me, Gilgamesh loses some ships and Egypt loses a single city, then we declare peace. Egypt and Norway declare war on me again, I take two Egyptian cities and two Norwegian cities including their capital because their navy was wrecking my coastlines. Egypt then denounces me for being a warmonger. gently caress you, clown-rear end game.
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Jan 22, 2018 23:25
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According to some in this thread, the correct course of action was to sit there and continually turn the other cheek, doing no worse than pillaging tiles from Egypt. How else are you supposed to make him like you?
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Jan 23, 2018 00:54
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They game really needs some way to gently caress up rear end in a top hat neighbors that doesn't result in being banned from diplomacy forever nor them declaring on you every 20 turns.
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Jan 23, 2018 01:09
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Serephina posted:According to some in this thread, the correct course of action was to sit there and continually turn the other cheek, doing no worse than pillaging tiles from Egypt. How else are you supposed to make him like you? If Egypt declares war on you three times, maybe it's time to stop trying to get them to like you and not care if they denounce you is what I'd say, actually.
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Jan 23, 2018 01:25
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Serephina posted:According to some in this thread, the correct course of action was to sit there and continually turn the other cheek, doing no worse than pillaging tiles from Egypt. How else are you supposed to make him like you? There is no correct course of action. Continuing a war to "teach the AI a lesson," as if it were a human, is definitely warmongering, hope this helps.
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Jan 23, 2018 01:27
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It's not teaching a lesson, it's disabling the actual warmongers who keep perpetuating violence every few years.
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Jan 23, 2018 01:45
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homullus posted:There is no correct course of action. Which is why it's a lovely system.
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Jan 23, 2018 02:00
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Darkrenown posted:Which is why it's a lovely system. They just need to add a warscore/wargoals system and tie it to Casus Belli and let go of this warmonger nonsense.
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Jan 23, 2018 02:17
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Zulu confirmed. They left the ikanda in the civilopedia for these preview demos. It was their building in Civ5.
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Jan 23, 2018 03:11
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Darkrenown posted:Which is why it's a lovely system. No, it's lovely for other reasons. What's the "correct" opening in chess, or in poker? If you continue a war, you are a warmonger. If you declare a lot of wars, you should also suffer consequences for warmongering, which the AI doesn't seem to enforce on itself.
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Jan 23, 2018 03:22
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hexal posted:Zulu confirmed. They left the ikanda in the civilopedia for these preview demos. It was their building in Civ5. It seemed to be listed in the districts section, which suggests it's a unique Encampment.
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Jan 23, 2018 03:25
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homullus posted:No, it's lovely for other reasons. What's the "correct" opening in chess, or in poker? If you continue a war, you are a warmonger. If you declare a lot of wars, you should also suffer consequences for warmongering, which the AI doesn't seem to enforce on itself. Stop arguing with people that agree with you.
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Jan 23, 2018 03:26
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The AI does actually seem to take warmongering penalties into account when declaring war, if you reduce them a lot the AI gets really war-happy. The outlier in an unmodified game seems to be Joint Wars which the AI has never gotten right.
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Jan 23, 2018 03:34
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Serephina posted:According to some in this thread, the correct course of action was to sit there and continually turn the other cheek, doing no worse than pillaging tiles from Egypt. How else are you supposed to make him like you? if anyone ever declares war on me in civ i wipe them out completely. warmonger, whatever, the AI isn't gonna get any happier
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Jan 23, 2018 04:20
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Roland Jones posted:Meanwhile, Brazil gets a unique Water Park as well as their unique Entertainment Complex, Sumeria gets more alliance points when they're at war with a common foe, Egypt gets double the alliance points for trading with allies, and Spain gets loyalty in cities on other continents that have a mission adjacent to the city center.
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Jan 23, 2018 06:05
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The White Dragon posted:if anyone ever declares war on me in civ i wipe them out completely. warmonger, whatever, the AI isn't gonna get any happier I'm pretty similar. I take as much as I can and only stop when I'm stretched too thin. I don't take warmonger penalties into account at all.
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Jan 23, 2018 06:08
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It's actually straight up hilarious that the best response to someone declaring war on you is to immediately wipe them out as fast as you can because leaving them alive means they just continue to declare more wars on you and continue to denounce you because it is basically impossible to ever change their opinion about you or even stop them or punish them for it in any way. The only way to actually win at diplomacy is through conquest and domination. This includes nations that declare war on you, eh, just because. This game is loving dumb.
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Jan 23, 2018 07:05
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Just because a civ has wardecced you once doesn't mean they will permadenounce you forever. The Civ 6 diplomacy barley registers wardecs and past wars. Following agendas + not taking a city will repair relations. I just finished the game in alliance with a civ that wardeced me in the medieval era. Though I went out of my way not to play militarily. The broader issue is that the conquest playstyle is too rewarding.
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Jan 23, 2018 07:12
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Serephina posted:According to some in this thread, the correct course of action was to sit there and continually turn the other cheek, doing no worse than pillaging tiles from Egypt. How else are you supposed to make him like you? Do what I did on my trip report. Go to war with him, smack his army, March to their city and then ask for a city. There you go, no warmongering.
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Jan 23, 2018 08:08
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So, unrelated to rehashing the debate over whether defensively conquering empires and taking their land for yourself is warmongering or not, some people made an interesting discovery while watching the latest Rise and Fall videos: Tech ahead of the game's current era has its cost increased by 20% per era it's ahead. Meanwhile, tech from previous eras has the cost reduced. This makes it harder to just run away with the game and helps people who are behind catch up somewhat. Also makes beelining advanced techs take longer, though it's still possible. Edit: Also, they left the Ikanda in the Civilopedia apparently, so that's the Zulu confirmed. Combined with the Mapuche leader and the Scottish palace, that seems to confirm all three of the civs that were leaked/hinted at. Roland Jones fucked around with this message at 09:36 on Jan 23, 2018 |
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Jan 23, 2018 08:21
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I'm actually glad to see they decided to go for a more simulationist/sandboxy approach and reduced the wargame approach. Punishing tech for being ahead of time, an idea of letting civilizations go through dark and golden ages... I hope the next expansion just does away with all pretense and gives me victoria style pops and a rudimentary economy system of sorts. Sorry for everyone who tried to play this in multiplayer I guess. EDIT: I would have liked it as well if they explicitly moved towards straight up wargame, but the current design where firaxis just tries to keep it hanging in between the two wasn't working out. They needed to choose. Deltasquid fucked around with this message at 10:09 on Jan 23, 2018 |
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Jan 23, 2018 10:04
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Baron Porkface posted:Just because a civ has wardecced you once doesn't mean they will permadenounce you forever. The Civ 6 diplomacy barley registers wardecs and past wars. Following agendas + not taking a city will repair relations. I just finished the game in alliance with a civ that wardeced me in the medieval era. I have a policy of keeping 1 city and giving the rest back and I can get away with quite a few before anyone cares. It helps if you occasionally liberate cities back to other civs too.
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Jan 23, 2018 13:59
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I have to say I can't see myself ever using any of those new alliance types unless Level 3 also enables joint victory. Everyone I would want to use those on, if I'm aiming for that type of victory, is necessarily going to be a rival for that victory. Like there is absolutely no way I would make a religious alliance with anyone who had their own religion. I don't make trade routes with AIs as it is because there's always a not-insignificant chance they'll flip out and Joint War you with someone for no reason and cancel/pillage all those routes. I always thought that civs having a diplomacy malus for denouncing you and warring you, while making a certain sort of sense ("we don't even remember why we hate these guys, we just do") was stupid from a mechanics point of view. It sort of comes off as "I hate you because I hate you!" Same way friendships and alliances increase opinion, making it relatively easy to stay permafriends once you get that first friendship declaration. Denounce/War/Friend/Ally should be symptoms of opinion, not causes of it. Then again opinion also has the weird thing where some civs will love you for doing well (you have high culture/science? FRIENDS!) and some will hate you (you got great people? HATE!). I suppose it's so that you can't be friends with everyone while running away with the game, but it just makes Pedro seem like a jealous sullen jerk all the time. I don't know how I'd fix it, I'm just resigned to never being friends with Pedro because nothing he can do for me is worth giving up on Great People (that he probably won't win anyway). I don't recall having this much trouble with agendas when they were personality traits in Civ BE. Maybe it was because leaders there had more other agendas to counterbalance any lovely ones. Cutting the influence generation of agendas by 33% and adding an extra agenda slot might improve things. Also tourism should have a % based effect on gold generation in cities. High tourism cities should make more gold. That's just reasonable.
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Jan 23, 2018 14:20
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You ally yourself with schmucks, not world powers. Same as Civ5.
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Jan 23, 2018 15:09
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For me it's usually that I have a different government than the AI and will immediately be denounced for it. And the AI will have allies that will dislike me for that denounce as if I actually did something wrong, sometimes while the third party AI has the same government as me! What ever happened to the Civ IV screens of civs asking you to convert to their government first, before going off the deep end with a denouncement? They just act immaturely and angrily to every minor thing without asking first. It's so much easier to simply ignore them altogether and play like the AI is a punching bag.
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Jan 23, 2018 15:20
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That is a decent idea, actually. Instead of just moaning about how you're not following their agenda, the leaders should give you ultimatums. Give me that great person or I'll hate you, that sort of thing. I'd still ignore them 90% of the time since the combat AI is terrible, but if they ever fixed that it'd be cool.
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Jan 23, 2018 15:39
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quill18 has a Cree and Dutch preview out now.
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Jan 23, 2018 15:58
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Serephina posted:You ally yourself with schmucks, not world powers. Same as Civ5. So that completely ruins levels 2 and 3 of Research (they're not going to get Eurekas for anything you have yet to research, nor be at the same research tier as you to work on the same technology), stops you from converting cities of theirs at level 1 Cultural and you'll get gently caress all from level 3 Cultural because they're producing gently caress all, Military mostly is okay, Religious alliances are just completely baffling and mostly detrimental to religious victories anyway (while offering nothing towards nonreligious victories), and Economic 2 and 3 won't benefit you much at all because they won't have suzerain of anywhere. So the only reason to ally with shmucks is to give them gifts out of the goodness of your heart, because most of these supposed "benefits" are actually drawbacks (can't convert cities, meanwhile you bleed tech boosts/science/culture/tourism/GPP to them).
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Jan 23, 2018 16:04
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Makes sense, though? Why would you ally with a lesser power? Who does that?
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Jan 23, 2018 16:08
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Ally level 4: The game ends quickly and your ally wins, and at least you can say you tried.
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Jan 23, 2018 16:12
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Turn off victory conditions and roleplay a bit? Winning is for losers anyway
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Jan 23, 2018 16:24
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