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Gort posted:It's not the theory crafting, it's the actual activity of equipping the modules. Here's an example from today - I wanted to switch my Fer De Lance from plasma accelerators to burst lasers. Prior to engineering, you can just sell/store the plasmas and buy the lasers, job done. Now that we have engineering, I have to store the plasmas, buy the lasers, then fly to Broo Tarquin hundreds of lightyears away to get them modified. After I've done the grind of unlocking him, bringing him up to level 5, and finding the materials required for the mods I want. You can still do what you did before engineering was added. What you are complaining about is inane.
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Jan 23, 2018 16:53
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The best part of Horizons is that the Engineers are 100% optional content for the game. You can do literally everything in the game without engineering a single thing, it just makes some activities faster or easier. But because it's an extra thing that can be done, sperglords believe that it is something that must be done, that every component of their ship must be engineered. And not just engineered, but rolled 1000 times until they have distilled the perfect godroll that gives them a .0005% increase to a secondary effect. "Egads, you can't just use a laser, you must instead travel 100 LY to modify it for 20% extra damage! This game is a huge time sink!"
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Jan 23, 2018 16:58
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lemonadesweetheart posted:You can still do what you did before engineering was added. What you are complaining about is inane. Unengineered modules are garbage compared to engineered ones so I don't want to do what I did before engineering was added. Other ships use engineered modules, which makes an unengineered ship worse-off now than it was before engineering was added to the game. Are you seriously arguing that engineering is totally fine and a fun addition to the game? Mike the TV posted:"Egads, you can't just use a laser, you must instead travel 100 LY to modify it for 20% extra damage! This game is a huge time sink!" Well, first off, 20% is seriously lowballing it. An engineered ship can easily take triple the hits of an unengineered one thanks to shield resistances and boosters, that's not really something to sneeze at. There are plenty of builds that flat-out do not work without engineering. And I have absolutely no problem with time sinks - it's just a shame that the time sinks engineering has added to the game usually have you doing the unfun parts of the game, like trawling a moon for minerals, or looking for specific types of signal source in a system so you can scoop up materials. The game would be much better if you could remotely deal with engineers instead of having to fly to them, and if engineering modifications were unlocked by doing fun stuff instead of unfun stuff. Hopefully the re-work of engineering will move in this direction. Gort fucked around with this message at 17:06 on Jan 23, 2018 |
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Jan 23, 2018 17:01
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Mike the TV posted:The best part of Horizons is that the Engineers are 100% optional content for the game. You can do literally everything in the game without engineering a single thing, it just makes some activities faster or easier. It seems like it might be nice to try out at some point because it will force me to mine, something I haven't done yet. e now that I'm thinking about it, it's also a good excuse to actually use a wake scanner too
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Jan 23, 2018 17:03
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i guess making some activities faster or easier is entirely optional if your time is worthless
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Jan 23, 2018 17:06
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Gort posted:Unengineered modules are garbage compared to engineered ones so I don't want to do what I did before engineering was added. Other ships use engineered modules, which makes an unengineered ship worse-off now than it was before engineering was added to the game. Nope.
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Jan 23, 2018 17:07
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So what would you change about it? (assuming the nope was to the question at the end)
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Jan 23, 2018 17:09
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Gort posted:So what would you change about it? (assuming the nope was to the question at the end) I want to see more module storage and the ability to buy or trade materials/elements. The rest I don't really care about. The worst part of engineering is the random timesink associated with specific upgrades. I don't think flying to get modules is any better or worse with engineering added or not because you pretty much have to do that already. Having engineers sell the poo poo they're supposed to be able upgrade (I don't think i've ever seen anything A-Rated in their outfitting) would also be nice to have seeing as how they're supposed to be engineers for that particular module. Also a shipyard would be nice too.
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Jan 23, 2018 17:13
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Well engineering is getting some QoL changes soon which hopefully will mitigate some of the grind lol
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Jan 23, 2018 17:21
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Gort posted:Unengineered modules are garbage compared to engineered ones so I don't want to do what I did before engineering was added. Other ships use engineered modules, which makes an unengineered ship worse-off now than it was before engineering was added to the game. I wouldn't say it's totally fine, but to me it is pretty fun seeing how far I can push a ship. The end result is worth it. That being said, I can't believe you're complaining that you can remove modules and store them. Like it's a bad thing or something. We used to have to buy ships just to store modules. Now we can store up to 60 for free. I mean, c'mon man that's just silly. When you've finished enchanting a good piece of gear, you can save it and put it on any ship you want. A lot of the ships share common sized modules and they're totally interchangeable. The Class 5 FSD fits on a ton of different ships, same with Class 5/6 Thrusters. Get a good roll, and you'll never have to roll another one, just swap it to whichever ship you feel like flying. It takes like 15 seconds. Shield Generators, Shield Boosters, HRPs and Weapons are also easily interchangeable. So, yes. I think engineering is a good thing overall. I like customizing my ships and making them truly mine, instead of "yet another A-Fit vulture with twin MCs" -- That isn't to say it couldn't do with some improvements. The grind is lovely, but not unbearable. I've done a lot, lot worse for far, far less. I'd put it on par with World of Warcraft grinds, except they're not time-gated, so actually a little bit better. Don't stress about getting a perfect God-Roll. The first roll you make on any unmodified module is weighted to be on the high side for both bonuses and maluses. Because of this, I generally only ever roll a modification once, and it's 9 times out of 10 good enough for my needs. A bit of good news, though: The patch apparently will allow you to pin a blueprint from an engineer and roll that particular blueprint at any station, remotely. And you'll be able to trade unwanted materials at a material trader, so if you simply can't find a specific mcguffin you're not totally out of luck.
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Jan 23, 2018 17:21
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Kurr de la Cruz posted:You are like tiny baby. Damm that engine roll. I only get 814m/s boosted.
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Jan 23, 2018 17:24
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Kurr de la Cruz posted:
I remember that two years ago, we would just put pulse lasers and multicannons on everything.
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Jan 23, 2018 17:26
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Yeah engineers in concept are a good thing, current implementation is not so great.
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Jan 23, 2018 17:28
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Sultan Tarquin posted:Damm that engine roll. I only get 814m/s boosted. The crazy thing is it's surprisingly sturdy for a speedship, too. 1D Hull Reinforcements can still take heavy duty for significant hull resistance increases without much weight penalty.
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Jan 23, 2018 17:29
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I really wish engineers followed more of a “make this ship do what you want” and less of a “make it better in roles it already excels at, and maybe less marginal in others.” Let me use engineering to sacrifice a large optional slot for 2 level 1’s for scanners so I can use combat ships as explorers. That kinda stuff!
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Jan 23, 2018 17:41
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Kind of thinking for my FDL, this is what I want to shoot for: https://eddp.co/u/PizzamlC no engineering, mind you. It seems that would blow up a lot of ships quite efficiently. And no I am not removing my docking computer, I am a true believer in them. I can get by without them, but boy loving howdy I like the luxury.
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Jan 23, 2018 17:43
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Anime Store Adventure posted:I really wish engineers followed more of a “make this ship do what you want” and less of a “make it better in roles it already excels at, and maybe less marginal in others.” Being able to overslot as well as the current ability to underslot modules would be loving hilarious. 7A DD thrusters on a vulture would be goddamn hilarious.
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Jan 23, 2018 17:44
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The lack of shipyards at the engineers is pure annoying trash. It forced you to sink extra time into the game simply to fly from the nearest station (sometimes a few systems over) back and forth to the engineer. The best way I’ve found is to store all the modules you want to engineer and then travel around in an anaconda to each one, transferring the modules to the engineers station, fitting them to the anaconda for modification before storing them again. Rinse and repeat for all the modules you want done. That’s about as efficient as it gets and it’s still a massive waste of time.
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Jan 23, 2018 17:50
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CornHolio posted:Kind of thinking for my FDL, this is what I want to shoot for: Consider putting a fixed beam on the c4 slot? The gimballed c4 beam on the FdL has a deceptively small cone of fire. And the effective range is seriously hampered by the gimbal jitter. Obviously, you can try it and see if you can make it work, but I didn't have much luck with it. The c4 plasma is another great option. D rated life support is lighter, which lets you go faster and jump further. The extra O2 isn't that important, you can always synthesize more air if you have the right materials handy. 2 iron + 1 nickel, I think. Other than that, I would fit a larger fuel scoop and a smaller interdictor. I think you get much more value out of the larger fuel scoop vs a larger interdictor. Docking computer is great, I take the opportunity to fire up the external camera while docking. Helianthus Annuus fucked around with this message at 18:08 on Jan 23, 2018 |
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Jan 23, 2018 18:04
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osirisisdead posted:Stop trying so hard to catch up to bitter veterans. You can't. What? Can you really play differently than taking three high value salvage missions at a time and getting ganked by rats? Like, one mission at a time? 
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Jan 23, 2018 18:07
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quote:That being said, I can't believe you're complaining that you can remove modules and store them. Like it's a bad thing or something. We used to have to buy ships just to store modules. Now we can store up to 60 for free. I mean, c'mon man that's just silly. . Huh? I never complained about being able to store modules
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Jan 23, 2018 18:08
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lol if u participate in slap fights on the forums. just drop it
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Jan 23, 2018 18:12
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It would be cool if you could just ship a module and the needed materials to the engineer, have them store it there and remotely roll your upgrades. Then have them ship it to your current station. They could even add extra fees to appease the "special" players.
jubjub64 fucked around with this message at 18:35 on Jan 23, 2018 |
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Jan 23, 2018 18:23
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That's pretty much what you'll do with pinned recipes once the next patch hits.
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Jan 23, 2018 18:24
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I think the biggest problem with engineers, aside from unlock requirements and double-layered RNG is that it's straight upgrades. They hosed up by doing that. If it allowed you to specialize, that would be one thing... but making it provide upgrades just makes those feel mandatory. Plus it's just setup to be loving stupidly time-sinky on the components end. It's just a really, really poorly designed thing. Powerplay is sort of similar, in that it's really poorly designed and thus relies entirely on time-sinks rather than creating interesting choices or gameplay. Frontier has strengths but holy poo poo they're not showing them here, and if you mention any criticism of Engineers or Powerplay or the game as a whole the grogs on Reddit or the official forums will claim that you just want free stuff. It's insane. Engineers is objectively poorly designed and is, in my opinion, ultimately a drag on the game. Powerplay is poorly designed but can easily be ignored, at least, but engineers can't, for the most part, especially if you enjoy flying in open.
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Jan 23, 2018 18:25
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My engineering story is that I found some of them and then a screen appeared with numbers so I clicked buttons and then I have no idea wtf it was all for or if anything happened
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Jan 23, 2018 18:38
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That's how I do online banking.
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Jan 23, 2018 18:50
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For those using HOTAS and VR, how you do you use the galaxy map?
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Jan 23, 2018 18:53
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Gonkish posted:I think the biggest problem with engineers, aside from unlock requirements and double-layered RNG is that it's straight upgrades. They hosed up by doing that. If it allowed you to specialize, that would be one thing... but making it provide upgrades just makes those feel mandatory. You're missing the forest for the trees.
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Jan 23, 2018 18:56
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Gonkish posted:I think the biggest problem with engineers, aside from unlock requirements and double-layered RNG is that it's straight upgrades. They hosed up by doing that. If it allowed you to specialize, that would be one thing... but making it provide upgrades just makes those feel mandatory. That's not quite true. Almost none of the mods are 100% flat upgrades. They all apply penalties in addition to bonuses and the penalties increase as the bonuses increase. For example, Overcharging your Power Plant is a double edged sword: The more power you squeeze out of it, via higher grades of modifications, the less heat efficient it becomes, as well as losing a LOT of integrity. The result is: You can juice the poo poo out of your plant to fit higher power modules, but you're going to be way more prone to overheating and even a stray shot to your PP will ruin your day. The higher the grade, the worse the penalties become. That's why we recommend only overcharging your plant enough to run what you need, and no further. In contrast, weapon upgrades are the opposite, the lower the grade, the worse the penalties are. At max grade the secondary penalties are removed. You'll still get the primary penalties, like reduced damage per shot for Rapid Fire, or increased heat/power draw for Overcharged. As such it's almost never worth it to apply anything but a grade 5 mod to weapons. Gonkish posted:
Farming mats is tedious, I'm not gonna deny it, but they actually have done a fair bit to make it tolerable. SRV mining in particular has improved a great deal because they increased the number of items you receive per pickup from 1 to 3, and they also tweaked the SRV's wave scanner so mineable rocks show up way further out. They also made it so the rare rock types (outcrop 2, metallic or whichever for the planet type) will always drop some of the good rares that can be found on that planet. So getting your arsenic, selenium, etc isn't nearly as painful as it used to be. Just go to an appropriate planet (verify contents with surface scanner/system info) and you should find what you need in 10-20 minutes tops. You can scoop up enough to last you for months after finding 2-3 of the right rock formation. Some of the more esoteric materials (Military Supercaps, Core Dynamics Composites) etc are still hit or miss, as they require finding the right USSes in the right systems with the right conditions, but they are adding a material trader to address that, it seems. Gonkish posted:
The system is far from perfect and parts of it still really suck (USS farming in particular) but the grind really isn't that bad compared to some of the egregious poo poo I've seen in other games, and the end result is really rewarding if you like flying around fast and blowing poo poo up like a tiny god. I wrote up a guide that's still pretty current, for the most part that might be of some help: https://docs.google.com/document/d/14F5pbks7dpEOGaVlhE8b-i2hJg2ufj31wuaMq8Ro-iw/ My advice is to just don't stress or chase after godrolls. The first roll you make is almost always about as good as you can get, discounting extremely lucky secondaries, and will be more than enough to give you an advantage over anything the game throws at you, aside from spergaloid PVP tryhards. As long as you're not flying around in open at a CG site or newbie space, you're unlikely to run into anyone like that anyway, so there's no need to stress about it. The gameworld is too big for roving gangs of gankers to find you if you're not loitering around the CG zones or newbie space. Kurr de la Cruz fucked around with this message at 19:01 on Jan 23, 2018 |
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Jan 23, 2018 18:57
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Kaddish posted:For those using HOTAS and VR, how you do you use the galaxy map? I posted about it a few pages ago, but I use one hat stick for rotating the map around, another for zooming in/out, flight stick for moving cursor around and rudder pedals for moving up/down. Don't need mouse at all, and keyboard only for typing names.
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Jan 23, 2018 18:59
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Kaddish posted:For those using HOTAS and VR, how you do you use the galaxy map? I had the same issue. My problem was still being stuck in my 2d ways and trying to use my existing limited setup to finagle things, but the easy solution was just sitting down and begrudgingly binding all the galaxy map keys to relevant entries on the joystick, mostly the y and x-axis on the stick and on the hat. I use the joystick to spin and change angles on the map and the hat to move back/forth/left/right on the horizontal plane, then just a few extra keys for zoom and elevation- now I only use the mouse to select between the options on my selected system
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Jan 23, 2018 19:03
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Kaddish posted:For those using HOTAS and VR, how you do you use the galaxy map? Here is what I use with my setup: https://www.mcdee.net/elite/binds/apijjb?replay=apijjb
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Jan 23, 2018 19:05
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Helianthus Annuus posted:Consider putting a fixed beam on the c4 slot? The gimballed c4 beam on the FdL has a deceptively small cone of fire. And the effective range is seriously hampered by the gimbal jitter. Obviously, you can try it and see if you can make it work, but I didn't have much luck with it. The c4 plasma is another great option. Good info, I will keep it in mind. Also, turns out you can make a literal battleship: https://eddp.co/u/msjZhs9K
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Jan 23, 2018 19:06
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Kaddish posted:For those using HOTAS and VR, how you do you use the galaxy map? With the DMS switch for rotation and stick for panning (with the pinky lever to go up and down). 
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Jan 23, 2018 19:12
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Kaddish posted:For those using HOTAS and VR, how you do you use the galaxy map? After mapping all the map controls to the joystick and some hat switches, it's literally better than my experience with a mouse and keyboard was. The mouse constantly missed clicks on stars, none of that is happening now.
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Jan 23, 2018 19:17
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peter gabriel posted:My engineering story is that I found some of them and then a screen appeared with numbers so I clicked buttons and then I have no idea wtf it was all for or if anything happened Same
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Jan 23, 2018 19:24
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Kurr de la Cruz posted:The system is far from perfect and parts of it still really suck (USS farming in particular) but the grind really isn't that bad compared to some of the egregious poo poo I've seen in other games, You keep saying this like it excuses it. "It's not worse than crappy MMO grind" does not make it okay. Also, what made the engineering stuff mandatory isn't that it's straight upgrades - it's that they applied them to NPCs. If Engineering just straight up made players better, it would be a fine optional system. But it also made NPCs better - only they don't have to grind, and players do, just to keep parity.
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Jan 23, 2018 19:29
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quote:Hello commanders, https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php/398597-Mode-switching-for-missions-and-Smeaton-Orbital-200mill-hour?p=6326366#post6326366
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Jan 23, 2018 19:32
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Does anyone use a thrustmaster t flight hotas x with fixed weapons? I can't decide if mine has too much deadzone or if I'm just too much of a spaz to use it properly. I think it's almost easier to aim with a corvette than a vulture because on a light ship I keep overcompensating and the crosshairs oscillate over the target and I can never quite get a shot lined up. With a heavy ship it feels easier to just kinda nudge the nose where I want it without wildly swinging back and forth.
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Jan 23, 2018 19:37
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