|
spog posted:How much would a spark plug change for a W12 Phaeton cost at dealer prices? Probably not much, in being a W12 the spark plugs are reasonably accessible. A couple bolts to get the upper intake off and everything is right there. You wanna talk dealer hell. the Merc V12s have 24 plugs serviced by 2-4 long coil packs.  These really belong in the thread too because they're $1000 a piece used, and garbage.
|
#
?
Jan 22, 2018 23:43
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 9, 2024 15:02 |
|
|
Cojawfee posted:Do they have to come with a certificate saying they are for airplanes?
|
|
#
?
Jan 23, 2018 00:40
|
|
|
InitialDave posted:That's how this stuff works. You're not paying for the parts, you're paying for the paperwork. So how does that work? Is there like an inspection thing where they verify the parts in you engine or something?
|
|
#
?
Jan 23, 2018 00:44
|
|
|
ExplodingSims posted:So how does that work? Is there like an inspection thing where they verify the parts in you engine or something? I'm not an authority on airplanes but if it's anything like other "gently caress this up and people die" industries it's a chain of custody. If there's a problem (or accident), each part has a paper trail with signatures of everyone that's laid hands on it all the way back to the drawing on the engineer's desk. That way they can figure out who gets the blame (and the bill/jail time). edit: that too VVVVV Magnus Praeda fucked around with this message at 01:07 on Jan 23, 2018 |
|
#
?
Jan 23, 2018 01:04
|
|
|
And more importantly, issue recalls to people running the same parts lot.
|
|
#
?
Jan 23, 2018 01:05
|
|
|
ExplodingSims posted:So how does that work? Is there like an inspection thing where they verify the parts in you engine or something? Magnus Praeda posted:I'm not an authority on airplanes but if it's anything like other "gently caress this up and people die" industries it's a chain of custody. If there's a problem (or accident), each part has a paper trail with signatures of everyone that's laid hands on it all the way back to the drawing on the engineer's desk. That way they can figure out who gets the blame (and the bill/jail time). http://www.aerolegalservices.com/Articles/2012-02-06%20Criminal%20Prosecution%20for%20False%20Maint%20Records.shtml Dannywilson posted:And more importantly, issue recalls to people running the same parts lot.
|
|
#
?
Jan 23, 2018 01:12
|
|
|
There's a really good episode of Air Crash Investigations that I've been made to watch several times over the years about Partnair flight 394 that goes into quite a bit of why you are paying $50 per plug: http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x39yed6
|
|
#
?
Jan 23, 2018 01:41
|
|
|
We have a stupid amount of traceability and paperwork just for the toilet seats we make for planes.
|
|
#
?
Jan 23, 2018 02:09
|
|
|
It's not stupid, remember Dead Like Me? If a toilet seat murders someone they're gonna wanna trace where it came from.
|
|
#
?
Jan 23, 2018 02:17
|
|
|
I remember seeing something somewhere that a used piece of plastic for hanging a phone on cost hundreds of dollars because it goes on a plane.
|
|
#
?
Jan 23, 2018 02:32
|
|
|
InitialDave posted:I don't know the specifics of how you're expected to manage your record retention with privately owned light aircraft, I'm at the manufacturing end of this stuff, but I suspect it is some flavour of "if it all goes to poo poo and you can't show the parts at fault you used were certified for that application, the FAA will bum you to death". Basically this. If for some reason you end up in an accident that gets the FAA involved, they’ll inspect the engine as a matter of course and verify that the spark plugs are the same as those listed on the type certificate for the plane. If they’re wrong, you (if you’re alive) or your mechanic (more likely) has some splainin to do. The plugs don’t come with any significant paperwork. The plugs for my plane are about $5 more than other Champion plugs, and $15 more than Tempest models of the other Champion plugs. However, because it’s a niche application, Tempest won’t make plugs without a commitment to order something like 10,000 plugs or something ridiculous. There just aren’t enough Franklin powered planes flying to make it worth it to anyone to stump up the money. Apparently even Champion has on occasion considered dropping the plug but didn’t because they realized they’d be leaving us all high and dry.
|
|
#
?
Jan 23, 2018 02:41
|
|
|
BitBasher posted:What's the gas mileage on that? 18 inches per gallon.
|
|
#
?
Jan 23, 2018 03:07
|
|
|
Airplane certs are weird. We carry an aviation grade oil from amile, but because they don't want to pay for that cert on the oil, we sell it as airboat oil. Their rep flat out said it wasn't worth getting the cert compared to selling it this way for $7 a qt. https://www.oreillyauto.com/detail/...6062046/2497737
|
|
#
?
Jan 23, 2018 04:28
|
|
|
Elmnt80 posted:Airplane certs are weird. We carry an aviation grade oil from amile, but because they don't want to pay for that cert on the oil, we sell it as airboat oil. Their rep flat out said it wasn't worth getting the cert compared to selling it this way for $7 a qt. Ok so that’s what I thought an airboat was going to be but I secretly hoped it was for dirigible engines.
|
|
#
?
Jan 23, 2018 04:51
|
|
|
I promise to ask the amile rep if the oil is suitable for that next time hes in.
|
|
#
?
Jan 23, 2018 04:54
|
|
|
|
|
#
?
Jan 23, 2018 05:00
|
|
|
Another fun "plane parts are expensive" story: The Q400's I fly are fitted with a HUD for use by the captain, which is projected onto a fold-down piece of glass that's roughly the size and thickness of a paperback novel. If that piece of glass is damaged, it's something like $20,000 to replace, despite the fact that it contains zero moving parts or electronic components.
|
|
#
?
Jan 23, 2018 06:04
|
|
|
Powershift posted:Probably not much, in being a W12 the spark plugs are reasonably accessible. A couple bolts to get the upper intake off and everything is right there. Fortunately there is a place that rebuilds them on an exchange basis. They'll send you a coil pack to see if it solves your problem and if it does great, keep it and send yours back. I'm thinking it was 6-$700 last time I looked. It is really quite a complicated ignition system.
|
|
#
?
Jan 23, 2018 15:07
|
|
C-Bangin' it 
|
https://i.imgur.com/NErkjmD.gifv "this is your face in a car equipped with takata airbags" would have been a good alternative title.
|
|
#
?
Jan 23, 2018 16:47
|
|
|
Kept waiting for the engine to blow.
|
|
#
?
Jan 23, 2018 16:53
|
|
|
Oh and to add for crazy MB prices (and horrible failures if it happens).... The Maybach (not the recent ones, the 57/62 from a decade ago) has some interesting repair costs. The alternator brand new is around $15K. Rebuilts are only $8K though.  Interesting that they are 350 amp monsters while the stock S class is "only" 220. Although both cars have liquid cooled alternators, the Maybach has an entirely different serpentine drive setup.
|
|
#
?
Jan 23, 2018 17:27
|
|
|
azflyboy posted:Another fun "plane parts are expensive" story: It's probably doped with some anti-reflective bullshit and made through some tiny specialist that's friends/former coworkers with the chief of engineering.
|
|
#
?
Jan 23, 2018 17:29
|
|
|
charliemonster42 posted:Basically this. If for some reason you end up in an accident that gets the FAA involved, they’ll inspect the engine as a matter of course and verify that the spark plugs are the same as those listed on the type certificate for the plane. If they’re wrong, you (if you’re alive) or your mechanic (more likely) has some splainin to do. The plugs don’t come with any significant paperwork. Occasionally you get a quality alert from someone come across your desk that says something like "do not buy titanium from Bob & Frank's Ti Supply Shack" or whatever, and that's generally a sign someone done hosed up and tried to pull a fast one, the last couple of times it's happened it's been due to falsification of CofCs.
|
|
#
?
Jan 23, 2018 18:03
|
|
|
InitialDave posted:Yes. Batch traceability is a HUGE deal. I've binned tens of thousands of dollars worth of parts that were almost certainly perfectly ok, simply because someone had mixed up two different lots of the same grade of material at some point in the process. One of my customers makes a bunch of aviation components, including fasteners. Somewhere along the line there was a paperwork fuckup, and long story short my simracing rig is held together with bolts that are supposed to be something like $100 a piece with their documentation intact but because of whatever went wrong they just let me grab what I wanted out of a bin.
|
|
#
?
Jan 23, 2018 21:05
|
|
|
Sounds like we need some blockchains in here to fix this, will finally bring air travel costs down!
|
|
#
?
Jan 23, 2018 21:19
|
|
|
A friend just posted these to Facebook. I guess this just happened to her minivan. 
|
|
#
?
Jan 23, 2018 21:28
|
|
|
xzzy posted:Y'all should pick up a copy of John Muir's VW book then. The US Military's PM (Preventive Maintenance) Magazine is the crown jewel of anthropomorphized technology. https://www.nsncenter.com/Library/PSMagazine
|
|
#
?
Jan 23, 2018 21:30
|
|
|
CornHolio posted:A friend just posted these to Facebook. I guess this just happened to her minivan. Freestar? http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/2013/07/total-recall-update-rustectomy-successful-but-change-is-in-the-wind/ That mouse fur carpet looks a little Pontiac-y to me, though.
|
|
#
?
Jan 23, 2018 21:31
|
|
|
Powershift posted:Probably not much, in being a W12 the spark plugs are reasonably accessible. A couple bolts to get the upper intake off and everything is right there. Why would you not break that into several smaller coil packs? Oh, duh, Mercedes. Humbug Scoolbus posted:The US Military's PM (Preventive Maintenance) Magazine is the crown jewel of anthropomorphized technology. Holy poo poo, Will Eisner created that! Neat!
|
|
#
?
Jan 23, 2018 22:32
|
|
|
wolrah posted:One of my customers makes a bunch of aviation components, including fasteners. Somewhere along the line there was a paperwork fuckup, and long story short my simracing rig is held together with bolts that are supposed to be something like $100 a piece with their documentation intact but because of whatever went wrong they just let me grab what I wanted out of a bin. Trashing the head with an X ground across it would probably suffice to show they've taken steps to mark it as scrap, though.
|
|
#
?
Jan 23, 2018 22:37
|
|
|
xzzy posted:Sounds like we need some blockchains in here to fix this, will finally bring air travel costs down! Synergistic blockchain and aerospace technology, built to leverage millenial based organic growth through trickledown economics BlackMK4 fucked around with this message at 22:51 on Jan 23, 2018 |
|
#
?
Jan 23, 2018 22:48
|
|
|
Seat Safety Switch posted:Freestar? My bad, I thought it was her minivan. I think it's their other vehicle. Ford Escape I think.
|
|
#
?
Jan 23, 2018 23:01
|
|
|
It escaped alright
|
|
#
?
Jan 23, 2018 23:13
|
|
|
CornHolio posted:My bad, I thought it was her minivan. I think it's their other vehicle. Ford Escape I think. Oh god there are dozens of photos of this happening. Now I’ll have to check in on my wife’s Escape.
|
|
#
?
Jan 23, 2018 23:41
|
|
|
BlackMK4 posted:Synergistic blockchain and aerospace technology, built to leverage millenial based organic growth through trickledown economics Will there be an app? Will said app "disrupt" air travel?
|
|
#
?
Jan 23, 2018 23:56
|
|
|
BlackMK4 posted:Synergistic blockchain and aerospace technology, built to leverage millenial based organic growth through trickledown economics BUZZWORD OVERLOAD :head asplodes: InitialDave posted:They probably shouldn't do even that, you should destroy nonconforming stuff to stop someone getting hold of it and it getting back into the supply chain as "genuine" (this does happen). Didn't one of those air disaster shows or articles talk about how counterfeit certs lead to a crash? StormDrain posted:Oh god there are dozens of photos of this happening. Now I’ll have to check in on my wife’s Escape. Northern Salted Roads: not even once. It's like meth, for cars.
|
|
#
?
Jan 23, 2018 23:56
|
|
|
azflyboy posted:Will there be an app? Will said app "disrupt" air travel? Just put it in the
|
|
#
?
Jan 23, 2018 23:57
|
|
|
InitialDave posted:They probably shouldn't do even that, you should destroy nonconforming stuff to stop someone getting hold of it and it getting back into the supply chain as "genuine" (this does happen). It's somehow deeply satisfying to change out a part due to high-time, and, after fighting with corroded fasteners and paint and sealant and grease and everything, being able to take that part sign the "DISCARD/SCRAP" and run it through the bandsaw. Cessna Citation bleed-air precoolers require drilling out fifty-something rivets and are made of Superman's Kneecap. We broke a bandsaw blade and a carbide 3/8" drill bit. I told it it was scrap using a splitting maul, and I think I put a dent in the edge of the maul.
|
|
#
?
Jan 24, 2018 00:24
|
|
|
Darchangel posted:Didn't one of those air disaster shows or articles talk about how counterfeit certs lead to a crash? babyeatingpsychopath posted:It's somehow deeply satisfying to change out a part due to high-time, and, after fighting with corroded fasteners and paint and sealant and grease and everything, being able to take that part sign the "DISCARD/SCRAP" and run it through the bandsaw.
|
|
#
?
Jan 24, 2018 01:17
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 9, 2024 15:02 |
|
|
StormDrain posted:Oh god there are dozens of photos of this happening. Now I’ll have to check in on my wife’s Escape. https://www.ebay.com/itm/Rear-RIGHT-Shock-Mount-Rust-Repair-COMPLETE-Kit-Ford-Escape-Mazda-Tribute-/252424111294 
|
|
#
?
Jan 24, 2018 01:25
|
|