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In the translation I watched one of the lizard people said it was an elder lich, so I was just going from that 
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Jan 24, 2018 11:58
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As I figured, they're hurrying the lizardman plot along at a good clip. Next ep should finish it up at this pace.Poil posted:That was an elder lich? It was so weak and pathetic it only had level 3 spells and got taken out by a couple of lizards. What kind of low level trash mob did it used to be? What is a normal lich, stuck casting single magic missiles? A thing to remember is that by the standards of this world, level 3 magic is the province of ancient old wizards and superhuman prodigies. Higher level magic requires cooperation between multiple casters and huge rituals. That giant angel that Ainz clowned in the first season was only 7th level magic, and it was regarded as an unstoppable colossus that was the pride of the theocracy. When Narberal fought the Skeletal Dragons, Khajit thought they were immune to magic because as far as he's aware there's no one in the world who can actually cast magic of a high enough level to hurt them. In this context, an Elder Lich who can machine gun level 3 magic nonstop is an incredibly dangerous foe, and it took all of the mightiest lizardmen heroes working in concert to stop it, and they almost died in the process. It's important to not use the normal Nazarick cast as a baseline for this world. Ainz and his closest associates are simply god-freaks and any given one of the Pleiades could annihilate the entire Lizardman civilization singlehandedly with no effort, nevermind one of the floor guardians or Ainz himself. There's a reason why Ainz is going about this this way, though.
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Jan 24, 2018 12:49
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Nazarick is filled with epic level deity-like entities ported into a low-level D&D game.
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Jan 24, 2018 12:58
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For reference Ainz and the floor guardians are level 100 in yggdrasil. The Peliades range from like the 40s-60s. Nazarick itself as a converted former raid dungeon has "free" trash mob pops that don't cost any resources Ainzs can trigger which are in the mid 20's. Clementine from S1 is legendary hero tier and can hang with the other adamantium level adventurers and she's in the upper 20's, very low 30's range at a rough estimate. Stronoff is about the same level, maybe a bit stronger. 3rd-4th level spells are where great wizards cap out. Ainzs can cast level 10 spells and super tier spells which are beyond that.
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Jan 24, 2018 13:58
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Which matches roughly D&D spells to a T if you count cantrips as level 1 and rename super tier spells into epic spells. Level wise, it's harder to match against D&D, but it seems to imply most humans are level 1-5 and Ainz and the rest are 20~40. It doesn't scale as well.
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Jan 24, 2018 14:56
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Mordaedil posted:Level wise, it's harder to match against D&D, but it seems to imply most humans are level 1-5 
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Jan 24, 2018 15:58
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If I recall the author is a huge fan of Baldur's Gate and Neverwinter Nights.
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Jan 24, 2018 16:33
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Given how many of the spell names are taken directly from the Japanese translation of D&D manuals, I would have considered that obvious.
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Jan 24, 2018 16:36
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I'm mildly ashamed at getting so upset over something so silly.  But I figured an elder lich would at least be level 40 or so, since they're usually pretty powerful. A regular lich is dangerous as it is against low level scrubs.
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Jan 24, 2018 17:08
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This elder lich was named Iguva=41 (Experimental Sample No.41) It was hinted that Iguva was created from the corpse of Iguvarge the Adventurer (The guy who tired to accompany Mamon to fight Shalltear, but got murdered by him and his servants instead. They also share voice actors.) Iguva is appearntly a Level 22 Lich who can buff himself to about level 30. The Average Elder Lich in Nazarick are appearntly around level 30 and are considered to be second tier amoung Elder Lichs. So the first tier of Elder Lichs are probably around level 40. Elder Liches are also the Middle Tier of the Lich Family. MonsterEnvy fucked around with this message at 19:34 on Jan 24, 2018 |
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Jan 24, 2018 19:31
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Frost Pain is a sacred treasure of the lizard people, but in game terms I think it was an uncommon.
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Jan 24, 2018 20:09
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Kanos posted:As I figured, they're hurrying the lizardman plot along at a good clip. Next ep should finish it up at this pace.
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Jan 24, 2018 20:16
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You could say the same thing about Saitama from One Punch Man though? Although the difference is that Saitama is surrounded by people who are significantly weaker than he is and often weaker than the villains Saitama has to deal with. Not every series has to be about the tension of overcoming incredible odds. Heck, most shows these days, especially isekai novels are power fantasies where the protagonist overcome the challenges without effort. Just look at Death March, Youjo Senki or Stuck in Another World with my Cellphone.
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Jan 24, 2018 21:31
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Mordaedil posted:You could say the same thing about Saitama from One Punch Man though? This is a good point. I see the conflict of this world being the mystery of what happened after the server shutdown and whether there are other people like Ains out there.
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Jan 24, 2018 21:40
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Comparing over lord to one punch man is so far from addressing my point its unreal but sure I'll respond anyway. The point of one punch man is that saitama doesn't like being so strong that nothing represents a challenge. The tension in that show arises from the fact that he doesn't like being one punch man, and that he now feels a perpetual sense of ennui due to his strength. In addition one punch man is also a comedy - there's no tension in the fights because that is the (one) punchline, but there is drama to the show. Let's move on and look at overlord, to begin with the overall tone of the show is different. One punch man is a comedy whereas overload is clearly intended to be taken seriously (yes I am aware there are jokes in overlord but the overall narrative tone is not that of a comedy). Where does any narrative tension arise in overlord? The guy doesn't mind being a skeleton, he doesn't particularly seem to mind his subordinates being evil, neither he nor his subordinates are really challenged by anything which makes the action boring because you're actually supposed to take the action in this seriously. What are the stakes? A more apt comparative measure for this show would be similar "stuck in a game" type stories such as sword art online, but even then this compares unfavourably. E: the mystery of the world isn't a conflict in any way at present. You can tell this through the lack if conflict about it. The thing closest to a conflict is the skeletons desire to look into it vs his minions desire to murder all of the humans Namtab fucked around with this message at 21:58 on Jan 24, 2018 |
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Jan 24, 2018 21:56
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My point was that not all shows revolve around a conflict, but thanks for pointing out low-effort analysis like "Overlord isn't a comedy like One Punch Man is, therefore it is completely different" because yeah, I get that. My point was not that Overlord is some deep, intelligent piece of media on par with One Punch Man, because let's face it, it's nowhere near as clever. But not every anime or novel needs to be that. Overlord has serious problems and it manages to come just a little bit short of what it could have been, but nothing is really gained by posting in this thread that "this thing is bad and it sucks cause it lacks tension" because it is still an interesting story without that tension. It's the other problems that really drag Overlord down, but I'm not gonna get into it cause it gets spoilery quickly.
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Jan 24, 2018 22:29
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Mordaedil posted:Overlord has serious problems and it manages to come just a little bit short of what it could have been, but nothing is really gained by posting in this thread that "this thing is bad and it sucks cause it lacks tension" because it is still an interesting story without that tension. It's the other problems that really drag Overlord down, but I'm not gonna get into it cause it gets spoilery quickly. Once you realize that pretty much all conflict comes down to one side winning over the other or ending in a draw, most of the tension derived from such conflict is personal investment in it. And that's a problem that's not a spoiler for Overlord. People have said they don't care about lizardmans. That's ok. Everything shown about them before the inevitable conflict has been building up to it not only narratively but also providing opportunities to get personally invested in the lizardmans so that you care about what happens to them in the end. If you don't care about them, then you don't care about what happens to them during the conflict, then there is no tension in that conflict. Much like it is ok to not like a thing, it is also ok to not care about a thing.
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Jan 24, 2018 23:10
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Namtab posted:Comparing over lord to one punch man is so far from addressing my point its unreal but sure I'll respond anyway. I agree that the tension of conflict is missing, but that mystery is still the main point of conflict. Or at least it was. My complaints abt this lizzardmen center around it seeming to have nothing to do with that pervading mystery. If it turns out that the show no longer cares about that mystery, then I give up on it.
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Jan 24, 2018 23:22
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I am glad you don't think this compares to sao, as that show was complete garbage, and so a good thing in my books. I oddly find there is more tension in this show than something like RE:zero, as nothing kills tension more for me than knowing that anything and everything can be fixed if the main character just offs himself to time travel back and respawn, but than I seem to be in the very minority here.
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Jan 24, 2018 23:29
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re:zero literally introduces several things that arent fixed by the main character's time travel abilities, and also makes a huge point of his mental state because that's something that isnt fixed by resets
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Jan 25, 2018 00:06
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Ainz's struggle is being a good skeleton dad to his army of mentally unstable NPCs and maintaining this glorious image they have of him while privately freaking the gently caress out and mostly bluffing/bruceforcing his way through every obstacle. If you pay attention early on in Season One a throw-away phrase from him to one of the NPCs has basically started a chain reaction he's going to be desperately trying to figure out and grasp hold of for pretty much the entire series. He really starts having problems with the "creative" ways in which the Nazarick NPCs start interpreting his orders and the poo poo they get up to behind his back- either because they're over-enthusiastically interpreting his orders and want his praise, or because they're trying to scratch their particular alignment's itch. Only a few of the guardians are shrewd at all, and it's all tainted by their particular alignments and mental hangups programmed into them by their creators. The new world characters are mostly there to provide mountains of boring fluff and setup as a joke for when any of Ainz Ooal Gown's residents bumps into their world even the slightest bit and loving shatters it like cheap glass. There's basically only one remotely credible threat to Ainz that isn't some bullshit brought on by his NPCs loving around and that's only because he's not aware of it and it's been shown this season already. The side-fluff gets really boring though IMO minus The stuff with Enri which is pretty fun because she starts becoming a badass and doesn't really want to be one. Fabricated fucked around with this message at 02:58 on Jan 25, 2018 |
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Jan 25, 2018 02:45
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I think Ainz has elder lich as a racial with the progression going Skeleton Mage ->Elder Lich->Overlord
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Jan 25, 2018 04:09
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Namtab posted:Where does any narrative tension arise in overlord? The guy doesn't mind being a skeleton, he doesn't particularly seem to mind his subordinates being evil, neither he nor his subordinates are really challenged by anything which makes the action boring because you're actually supposed to take the action in this seriously. What are the stakes?
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Jan 25, 2018 16:49
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SASUGA! I WANTED PRIME RIB BUT ALL I GOT WAS A HAMBURGER! IT WAS PRETTY OK ACTUALLY!
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Jan 25, 2018 23:23
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EponymousMrYar posted:SASUGA! I WANTED PRIME RIB BUT ALL I GOT WAS A HAMBURGER! poo poo, I accidentally ordered a hamburger for Demiurge. Hope he doesn't mind.
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Jan 26, 2018 01:21
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Namtab posted:This is why this show is bad, because where's the tension in the setup? Honestly, I enjoy Overlord for the characters who aren't from Nazarick. A lot of them are pretty fun and well-realized - I particularly like the lizardmen, Enri, and Brain - and the tension in the setup for me is seeing how they deal with bumping up against the roving natural disaster that is the Nazarick dudes is fun. The Nazarick dudes are okay, but I find them at their most boring when they're crushing and overpowering something effortlessly; I like when they're forced to work under restrictions or they are squabbling internally. I understand that a lot of people like the show for different reasons and want to see a sitcom about Bumbling Skeleton Dad And His Evil God-Children, but I don't think Overlord really delivers on that, especially going forward.
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Jan 26, 2018 04:00
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Stevefin posted:I am glad you don't think this compares to sao, as that show was complete garbage, and so a good thing in my books. I oddly find there is more tension in this show than something like RE:zero, as nothing kills tension more for me than knowing that anything and everything can be fixed if the main character just offs himself to time travel back and respawn, but than I seem to be in the very minority here. SAO is good if you ignore anything that isn't the SAO arc. This is a sincere opinion. I really like the idea of considering the kind of society the setup creates and exploring the effects on both on a macro level and an individual one, and the show does explore a lot of that stuff. It's also why I like this show. It isn't just about having to deal with some kind of threat. I treat it more as a mystery show where Ains is poking and prodding at the world to see how it reacts so he can figure out what's going on. It's a cool idea conceptually and was played out pretty well last season. But then we went from, "Oh no, who could possibly have access to this world-tier item that almost killed me!?" to Ains sending Cocyutous to a war room that sends a lich + undead army to fight lizzardmen because ...?
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Jan 28, 2018 04:40
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ViggyNash posted:But then we went from, "Oh no, who could possibly have access to this world-tier item that almost killed me!?" to Ains sending Cocyutous to a war room that sends a lich + undead army to fight lizzardmen because ...? There is a good reason for Ains' actions in this arc.
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Jan 28, 2018 05:07
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Shouldn't that be explained beforehand though? I get that this is a sort of side story that ties into the main content so Ains isn't the pov here, but we got no real preamble for all this. It's especially confusing given that this is the very beginning of the new season.
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Jan 28, 2018 05:35
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ViggyNash posted:Shouldn't that be explained beforehand though? I get that this is a sort of side story that ties into the main content so Ains isn't the pov here, but we got no real preamble for all this. It's especially confusing given that this is the very beginning of the new season. Demiurge spells out a potential reason.
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Jan 28, 2018 05:46
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ViggyNash posted:Shouldn't that be explained beforehand though? I get that this is a sort of side story that ties into the main content so Ains isn't the pov here, but we got no real preamble for all this. It's especially confusing given that this is the very beginning of the new season. It probably worked better in novel format where characters have more space to internally monologue, but Ainz being almost entirely absent and the characters not knowing why he asked them to do this is part of the point.
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Jan 28, 2018 05:59
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Ainz wanted to turn the Lizardmen into an undead guard much stronger than regular skeleton armies in order to defend Nazarick further. That may change now that the Lizardmen performed better than anticipated against his men...
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Jan 28, 2018 06:56
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"Abelion Sheep". Yeah... Also Crush doesn't fool around. 
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Jan 30, 2018 22:35
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Apparently they skipped lizard loving? Not sasuga, Ainz-sama 
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Jan 31, 2018 00:02
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Good two words to end the episode
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Jan 31, 2018 00:41
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Poil posted:"Abelion Sheep". Yeah... It's amazing how thick Ainz was in that scene. Like I don't think he gets just how Evil Demiurge is. MonsterEnvy fucked around with this message at 12:58 on Jan 31, 2018 |
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Jan 31, 2018 01:31
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MonsterEnvy posted:It's amazing how think Ainz was in that scene. Like I don't think he gets just how Evil Demiurge is. demiurge seems pretty loyal and not super kill-everything evil to me  he may just be more intelligent and cunning than the rest of the guardians so mindless slaughter doesn't necessarily appeal to him, but i haven't seen his evil side yet e: the sheep is people isnt it where the red fern gropes fucked around with this message at 07:53 on Jan 31, 2018 |
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Jan 31, 2018 07:48
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The sheep are definitely people.
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Jan 31, 2018 08:06
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Sheeple 
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Jan 31, 2018 09:40
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there's some nasty fuckers in nazarick, but demiurge is by far the worst of the lot. sebas is the only good person, and that's because touchme wasn't into the whole jokey super evil npc stuff.
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