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what the gently caress is thisquote:Taken overall, the New Deal’s equality measures prolonged and deepened the Depression. The destructive role of high labor costs was made especially clear recently in the work of Lee Ohanian of UCLA. The obligation to pay higher wages when employers could not afford them forced employers to make their own, bitter, choice: they simply hired fewer workers. Hence the refrain we have heard from our parents, grandparents, and great-grandparents: “The Depression was all right—if you had a job.” Those who didn’t found themselves locked out. For ten years, joblessness stuck stubbornly in the double digits. This mattered far more to families than any theoretical envy index. With the coming of World War II, Roosevelt pushed the top tax rate to 94 percent. contained subtly within that paragraph break is all of world war two and the most command economy period in american history which i guess isn't worth mentioning here, in this analysis about american economic policy as it relates to wealth distribution. yep, nothing happened in that time period that might be relevant, to this article. no controls on wages, no regulations on hiring, no subsidies to higher education or housing, nope, not a thing, don't worry about it also eisenhower's speech about the military industrial complex was not about high taxes jesus christ. it was about unbalanced federal spending on weapons programs instead of civil infrastructure and the dominance of federal direction and planning in national educational and scientific growth. the author of this article is grossly misleading, i think just tossing out historical references like smoke bombs to mask the lack of substantiation in any argument here and to provide hooks for people who've read a book or two to nod along "yes, military-industrial complex, i remember that, eisenhower said that, this article is very smart" jesus christ now i'm mad at how lovely this article is
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Jan 24, 2018 01:06
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Pththya-lyi posted:(FWIW, Dad is an atheist and therefore doesn't believe the free market is backed up by God. It's backed up by ~*Reason*~. No, I don't get it either.) That means he thinks it's backed up by god under another name, free marketeers put the same faith in it that religious fundamentalists do in gods.
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Jan 24, 2018 08:06
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Ohanion has made a hobby out of writing WSJ op-eds about how the new deal and keynesianism are bad and terrible. He's also been caught out pretty much straight up lying in those op-eds. I'm guessing most of this FWD is sourced similarly.
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Jan 24, 2018 12:23
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”Pangly A” posted:Second, the argument about government debt. The writer seems reliant on the idea that debts matter when the debtor has nuclear weapons and could destabilise the world economy quite easily by printing out the money required to immediately meet their obligations (which the US absolutely can do whenever it feels like, it would be very stupid to do so). I don't think it needs to be explained why this is laughably idiotic; China is welcome to call in all their debts tomorrow, and be met by a violent and unstable nuclear superpower and receive a worthless amount of dollars for their time. Debts matter much more to smaller countries, even more so when to bigger countries, so this is a pretty specific exception, but at no point the writer is talking about has this not been the case, and they seem pretty illiterate about other nations (and the US, tbh). I couldn’t be arsed to read the article and this was an amazing takedown, but in addition: China can’t “call in its debts” anyway; they’re all T-bills or other time-demarked loans, where the US will pay $(X*1.05) in ten years for $X today. They are an amazing deal for the US because people trust US debt so much that in the depths of the Great Recession people were taking a guaranteed loss because at least they knew their money would be safe there. (Until Republicans started loving with the debt ceiling, acting like we wouldn’t pay our obligations and ducking up our amazing credit rating, that is) Also also the biggest holders of US debt are US citizens, to the tune of like 2/3s of all debt, held by retirement accounts, Social Security, etc.
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Jan 24, 2018 13:03
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OwlFancier posted:That means he thinks it's backed up by god under another name, free marketeers put the same faith in it that religious fundamentalists do in gods. As an atheist I can attest to this. Magical thinking doesn't stop at non-belief in established deities if you replace it with belief in invisible magic forces trying to accomplish some great unknowable good. There is no intelligence test for unbelief and trying to push the idea that you're not replacing belief rather than removing it just because the new belief makes you feel good is all too normal. Not that you can't do it, mind, just that it takes being skeptical about more than one thing at a time. Not to turn this into Belief/Non-belief chat. In regards to debt, the issue always seems to stem from people not understanding how modern debt is different at a national level versus a personal or corporate level. People speak about removing debt entirely like that is something that could happen at all with just a few restraints and bootstrap-pulling, when even when you're in a good financial position you have to loan money to keep operating a functional government at all. Norway, even at its top financial position, borrowed/borrows money to re-invest and keep as buffer money in case of bad situations or just because it is a smart idea to borrow money when interest rates are low.
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Jan 24, 2018 13:25
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DarkHorse posted:I couldn’t be arsed to read the article and this was an amazing takedown, but in addition: In my experience, the people who even bring up "well China's gonna call in its debt, and then what?!" believe we live in the Tom Clancy universe, and it's just going to be a pretense by the Commies to invade the USA mainland until a plucky group of highly-trained patriots save the day by blowing something up. Realistic and grounded views on macroeconomics aren't really their thing.
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Jan 24, 2018 16:31
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SimonCat posted:A literal forward from a friend: The belief that all we need to do is fix government is throw more tech at it is dumb as hell, but USDS does amazing work and isn’t part of the problem.
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Jan 24, 2018 18:00
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boner confessor posted:you will never convince your dad he is wrong. if he's actually sending you articles like this and finds them persuasive, he did not arrive at his position through logical weight of the facts. he really wants to believe free market is best, liberals are idiots, and this is all Reasonable and Rational and Logical. he doesn't know enough to identify the gaps in his perception. either he doesn't respect you enough to not send you cut rate propaganda or worse, he can't recognize it himself Believe me, you are preaching to the choir here. I love my Dad, but I haven't respected him for a long time. He's not exactly a stupid person, he just has a lot of faith in himself as a rational reasoner whose material and professional success came to him through his own intelligence and hard work and nothing else. Any argument that flies in the face of that belief - say, that white men benefit in any meaningful way from white or male privilege - must be automatically rejected because accepting it would mean that he has profited off a flawed and unjust system. So yeah, I am going to write him back, tell him the article was "very interesting," and leave it at that.
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Jan 24, 2018 19:08
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Spangly A posted:The great depression begins in America, the writers suggestions are followed, and what happens next is the entire world is poisoned by such severe economic malaise that fascism starts spreading like wildfire. This is apparently something the author thinks is a success, and I can only assume it's because they're completely ignorant of anything that has ever happened in the history of mankind. Or they're for fascism spreading like wildfire. With right-wingers, you can never tell.
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Jan 24, 2018 19:19
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Pththya-lyi posted:Believe me, you are preaching to the choir here. I love my Dad, but I haven't respected him for a long time. He's not exactly a stupid person, he just has a lot of faith in himself as a rational reasoner whose material and professional success came to him through his own intelligence and hard work and nothing else. Any argument that flies in the face of that belief - say, that white men benefit in any meaningful way from white or male privilege - must be automatically rejected because accepting it would mean that he has profited off a flawed and unjust system. My dads like yours, he success in life has gone to his head in such a way he can’t even see how it has affected his life. He got let go of a job a couple years ago does some contract work here and there, complains at the massive health insurance bill he pays for each month, complains about Obama. He can’t accept that maybe the world doesn’t work the way it used to. I have come to terms with my feelings about him a while back. I don’t respect him and I probably won’t really shed a tear when he passes. It’s sad but whatever, he’s had ample opportunities to get perspective and I don’t want to feel bad about his lovely worldviews. Like most old people nothing really sinks in until they’re in a nursing facility about to have all their assets seized by the state because it costs $15,000 a month to be there.
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Jan 24, 2018 19:33
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Pththya-lyi posted:Believe me, you are preaching to the choir here. I love my Dad, but I haven't respected him for a long time. He's not exactly a stupid person, he just has a lot of faith in himself as a rational reasoner whose material and professional success came to him through his own intelligence and hard work and nothing else. Any argument that flies in the face of that belief - say, that white men benefit in any meaningful way from white or male privilege - must be automatically rejected because accepting it would mean that he has profited off a flawed and unjust system. Invalid Validation posted:My dads like yours, he success in life has gone to his head in such a way he can’t even see how it has affected his life. He got let go of a job a couple years ago does some contract work here and there, complains at the massive health insurance bill he pays for each month, complains about Obama. He can’t accept that maybe the world doesn’t work the way it used to. I have come to terms with my feelings about him a while back. I don’t respect him and I probably won’t really shed a tear when he passes. It’s sad but whatever, he’s had ample opportunities to get perspective and I don’t want to feel bad about his lovely worldviews. Like most old people nothing really sinks in until they’re in a nursing facility about to have all their assets seized by the state because it costs $15,000 a month to be there. I have a hunch many of our dads are in the same boat. I try to avoid any and all political discussion with my dad and stick to asking for his help with home improvement projects. It makes him appreciated and if I can keep him away from bitching about urban youths or college safe spaces for a few hours I feel like that's something at least.
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Jan 24, 2018 19:41
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DarkHorse posted:China can’t “call in its debts” anyway; they’re all T-bills or other time-demarked loans, where the US will pay $(X*1.05) in ten years for $X today. When people say “call in its debts”, don’t they just mean that China wouldn’t purchase new T-bills as their current ones mature?
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Jan 25, 2018 02:46
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Subjunctive posted:When people say “call in its debts”, don’t they just mean that China wouldn’t purchase new T-bills as their current ones mature? Nope, they literally think China can just stroll into D.C. and demand $1 trillion upfront from the appropriate officials.
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Jan 25, 2018 02:52
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Gen. Ripper posted:Nope, they literally think China can just stroll into D.C. and demand $1 trillion upfront from the appropriate officials. Well that’s disappointing. Am I naive to believe that China not rolling over its debt would cause issues, though?
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Jan 25, 2018 02:57
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China not investing in US debt would gently caress them just as much, if not more, than it'd gently caress us. In another 20 years, who knows. But for now they are far too tied into our own stability to rock the boat.
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Jan 25, 2018 03:02
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Subjunctive posted:Well that’s disappointing. Eh, someone would buy the bills we issue. Keep in mind that they're purchased as they're issued, it's not some long-term thing they renege on. Edit: It's important to note that we owe them, not the other way around, and there are strict terms on what they get paid back and when. In that situation, it's hard for the creditor to do anything untoward unless the debtor fails to pay.
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Jan 25, 2018 03:12
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which since we have a sovereign currency is literally impossible unless congress decides to commit seppuku
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Jan 25, 2018 05:25
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A small debt is a problem for the debtor. A large debt is a problem for the creditor.
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Jan 25, 2018 06:34
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People think the debt is like a loan that we go out and like ask China for a few billion it's a hard thing to get into people's minds that it is not the same as their credit cards.
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Jan 25, 2018 08:54
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Arglebargle III posted:A small debt is a problem for the debtor. A large debt is a problem for the creditor. Exactly how trump lives his life.
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Jan 25, 2018 09:00
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Gen. Ripper posted:Nope, they literally think China can just stroll into D.C. and demand $1 trillion upfront from the appropriate officials. I like to imagine that they have some mental image of zombie Mao rolling up in a flatbed to repo Alaska. 
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Jan 25, 2018 14:57
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TerminalSaint posted:I like to imagine that they have some mental image of zombie Mao rolling up in a flatbed to repo Alaska. Uh excuse me, the socialist marxist satanic conspiracy for one-world government has already decided who they'll bring back as a lich and put in charge of repo'ing Alaska, and it is not Mao, thank you very much. 
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Jan 25, 2018 16:43
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It’s like since the seventies we’ve financialized the whole economy, sending money for manufacturing and oil overseas with the expectation that it would return to the US capital markets benefitting American capitalists on both ends.
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Jan 25, 2018 17:24
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TerminalSaint posted:I like to imagine that they have some mental image of zombie Mao rolling up in a flatbed to repo Alaska. Nah, they always talk about handing over California. We can get those commies off our backs and appease China at the same time. (Never mind that California is like an eighth of our economy and about 8% of our oil/gas production.)
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Jan 25, 2018 17:59
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darthbob88 posted:Nah, they always talk about handing over California. We can get those commies off our backs and appease China at the same time. (Never mind that California is like an eighth of our economy and about 8% of our oil/gas production.) Counterpoint: Liberals like and live in California, and in my deliberately ignorant and misinformed world, nothing that Liberals like contributes in any meaningful way to America, and is in fact a massive drain on resources that could be better spent putting women back in the kitchens and minorities back on the plantations.
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Jan 25, 2018 19:24
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the_steve posted:Counterpoint: Liberals like and live in California, and in my deliberately ignorant and misinformed world, nothing that Liberals like contributes in any meaningful way to America, and is in fact a massive drain on resources that could be better spent putting women back in the kitchens and minorities back on the plantations. They'll talk about taking things back to a simpler time, as they crack the Buggy Whip to goad the twenty child slaves into pulling their rickshaw.
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Jan 25, 2018 19:55
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I believe it is so ironic in the year of kneeling in football during the national anthem, the “Eagles & Patriots” are playing for the Super Bowl. Coincidence?!
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Jan 26, 2018 06:06
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Pomplamoose posted:
Probably why Vince is trying to bring back XFL. Somehow, enough people still think the NFL doesn't determine outcomes to boost a narrative, he probably misses the days when everyone was a mark. the_steve fucked around with this message at 06:49 on Jan 26, 2018 |
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Jan 26, 2018 06:47
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the_steve posted:Probably why Vince is trying to bring back XFL. Somehow, enough people still think the NFL doesn't determine outcomes to boost a narrative, he probably misses the days when everyone was a mark. And the other half is trump's big fat stupid vindictive "revenge" thing he's had his entire life, "Try closing down THE PRESIDENT'S football league motherfuckers!!" *spends government money to support the XFL and changes the laws to make sure he's always given the biggest trophy at every event. Republicans ignore these crimes*
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Jan 26, 2018 16:42
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Honestly, if he can somehow accidentally destroy football as an institution in our country, I'll count it as a lasting positive achievement to his legacy.
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Jan 26, 2018 19:16
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Duke Igthorn posted:A little from column A and a little from column B. The only thing that really upsets this is the Streisand Effect: there were a dozen "tell all" books and movies about Obama and his response was nooooooothing. Just quiet. As it should be. One guy writes one book bad mouthing Trump and EVERYONE knows about it because Trump gives him free ad time. Which is SUPER ironic coming from the "master manipulator" who got the press to give him plenty of free ads by breathlessly covering his antics. Huh: maybe he's not a "Master Manipulator" and just a big dumb pissbaby who got very lucky that his big dumb pissbaby antics worked out like that when he needed them because he was too loving cheap to spend money on his own campaign (a very obvious scam that he's run before in business: never send your own money if you can help it, still reap all the rewards). Basically, Republican voters are idiot children who buy whatever is shouted at them the loudest.
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Jan 27, 2018 00:19
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Astrofig posted:Basically, Republican voters are idiot children who buy whatever is shouted at them the loudest. And already fits their prejudices.
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Jan 27, 2018 18:28
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Me: "I thought Mexico was going to pay for the wall." Mom: "Well, I want the wall. And the Democrats are going to pay for it." Me: "You realize it's taxpayer money, right? We're all paying. Remember when Trump campaigned on Mexico paying for it?" Mom: "Mexico is paying for it. The DREAMers are Mexican." Me:  Also “Yes, but mom, he campaigned on Mexico buying it.” “Well how do you know this isn’t what he meant? He’s a master negotiator.” Mr. BT fucked around with this message at 01:50 on Jan 28, 2018 |
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Jan 28, 2018 01:47
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Mr. BT posted:Me: "I thought Mexico was going to pay for the wall." Please ask your mom how many Mexicans will it take to pay off 20 billion, and if they are so rich why did they come to the US in the first place.
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Jan 28, 2018 02:03
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Maybe she means the DREAMers will be used as slave labor to build the wall? Or their bones crushed and made into mortar?
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Jan 28, 2018 02:55
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Or we'll just do like the ancient Chinese did and use their bodies as filler.
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Jan 28, 2018 03:01
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https://twitter.com/justincousson/status/957385876677513216
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Jan 28, 2018 06:15
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Show solidarity with dead cops by wearing a gun shaped necklace? That's the most American thing I have seen since those "pulled pork wolverine claws" where you punch meat into ribbons before serving. 
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Jan 28, 2018 14:28
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Why use forks or knives when you can use this uni tasker. Also random tomato , pepper and some sort of herb(rosemary?) Also reminder, one of Donnie's cocksuckers had a bullet necklace and when she got flack and threaten to wear dead babies next time. PhazonLink fucked around with this message at 20:40 on Jan 28, 2018 |
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Jan 28, 2018 20:38
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Mr Darcy posted:Who? He's basically the poster boy for self publishing on Amazon. His books are good in a serviceable way but aren't going to be remembered as classics or anything like that.
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Jan 29, 2018 03:54
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