|
MilitantBlackGuy posted:It seems like you have to sue for peace with Lahmia (which is the most un-Khalida thing possible) This shouldn't even be an option. I'm surprised that they don't start permanently at war the same way as Skarsnik and Belegar.
|
#
?
Jan 24, 2018 18:53
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 7, 2024 09:28 |
|
|
MilitantBlackGuy posted:This was the first campaign I tried and restarted it about 5 times trying to figure out what to do. It's just hard, it seems like you have to sue for peace with Lahmia (which is the most un-Khalida thing possible) until you get a second army so you're strong enough to take them. The garrison and their army is just too much for 1 lovely early game TK stack, and they love to builld Crypt Ghouls which really just shred your skellies early game. I'm still on my first attempt but what seems to help is having Silver Host's capital get a rebellion. They'll beat it but be sufficiently weakened that you can capture their capital easily. You want it to play out like this NOT being in a situation where you barely get the capital and immediately get a rebellion yourselves. Another thought is getting lucky with ambushes, which might be another thing that really helps her early game.
|
|
#
?
Jan 24, 2018 19:00
|
|
|
Another gripe I have about some starting points is that some starts let you capture the whole province quickly. Silver Road, for example, can be captured by turn 3 which is significant when you can start getting the provincial ordinances going. Some factions also got an easy army to crush and follow up by capturing an adjacent settlement, which helps level up your lord initially. Khalida struggles in ME because her settlements are pretty far apart (making it hard to defend them) and there's not really an enemy army to smash on turn 1. Combined with the fact that rebels are a real threat for Tomb Kings there are many things that can go wrong the first 20 turns. Unlike say Brettonia who can farm rebellions for money and chivalry, Tomb Kings get almost no benefit.
|
|
#
?
Jan 24, 2018 19:18
|
|
|
What dynasties are you all going for with Tomb Kings? There are so many choices that look great. Are you going to be able to unlock all of them in a Vortex campaign?
|
|
#
?
Jan 24, 2018 19:28
|
|
|
I just realized that the Silver Host is literally an army of Lahmian vampires dispatched to gently caress with Khalida by Neferata. Who at this point in the timeline is lairing at the Silver Pinnacle. It's why they're stationed in Lahmia, just to rub it into Khalida's face.  They had better damned well fix them up with a proper roster because holy poo poo the potential there is amazing. The Khalida/Neferata slapfest is one of the more amazing things in Warhammer. I want my intrigue mechanics and events on a vampire faction. Archonex fucked around with this message at 19:32 on Jan 24, 2018 |
|
#
?
Jan 24, 2018 19:30
|
|
|
How do I play early game TK? Especially with Khalida, who has trouble capturing her starting capitol city in ME. Having to lean on a couple of chariots and a pile of trashskellingtons is really giving me trouble.
|
|
#
?
Jan 24, 2018 19:32
|
|
|
thebardyspoon posted:Khalida is a beast I feel like we must have different Khalidas. Mine got thrashed by the Silver Princes' starting vampire lord, and if you put a basic Khalida up against a basic vamp in custom, he'll rock you there too by an astonishing margin. Frankly I'm really disappointed by Khalida so far: even on her snake she's a trash duelist whose stats are literally worse than a naked vampire lord before you apply poison, and even the poison isn't enough to make up for her abysmal stat line. It's disappointing in campaign, and so far I see no reason to take her in multiplayer over a standard Tomb King (which are both cheaper and stronger in every way). What am I missing here?
|
|
#
?
Jan 24, 2018 19:37
|
|
|
In my Khalida ME start, I conquered Lahmia after the vamps lost their whole army fighting dwarves so I recommend y’all do that. The fight against the garrison was still really close because grave guard are insanely better than TK infantry especially that early.
|
|
#
?
Jan 24, 2018 19:43
|
|
|
Panfilo posted:Another gripe I have about some starting points is that some starts let you capture the whole province quickly. Silver Road, for example, can be captured by turn 3 which is significant when you can start getting the provincial ordinances going. Some factions also got an easy army to crush and follow up by capturing an adjacent settlement, which helps level up your lord initially. Have you seen Khatep’s starting province? It is a long shaky piece of crap right at the edge of the map. Also, both provinces are ruins, and you start in a minor one right in the middle. Even then you don’t start with any real wars, so you can probably do some waiting and get to a better position, but that toothpick of a province is still major doo doo.
|
|
#
?
Jan 24, 2018 19:45
|
|
|
Having your starting capital be a minor settlement is total bullshit. It means you have to attack the 'main' settlement that is walled by default and don't get starting walls yourself. I'm curious if merging the garrison building for minor settlements with their main building might help. So a T2 minor settlement is like other factions' T2 settlement and garrison building, and your T3 minor settlement is a walled settlement with upgraded garrison baked in, rather than having to spend 4500g 5 turns and a building slot. Their garrison units are quite weak anyway but getting free walls (like Brettonians do) and more crap skeletons would help.
|
|
#
?
Jan 24, 2018 19:51
|
|
|
Kestral posted:I feel like we must have different Khalidas. Mine got thrashed by the Silver Princes' starting vampire lord, and if you put a basic Khalida up against a basic vamp in custom, he'll rock you there too by an astonishing margin. Frankly I'm really disappointed by Khalida so far: even on her snake she's a trash duelist whose stats are literally worse than a naked vampire lord before you apply poison, and even the poison isn't enough to make up for her abysmal stat line. It's disappointing in campaign, and so far I see no reason to take her in multiplayer over a standard Tomb King (which are both cheaper and stronger in every way). Iunno? I'm still early on but she's been smashing everything I've thrown her into, the vampire lord during the siege didn't actually get into the fight until nearly everything else he had was dead so I can't speak to that but she's been carrying the fights I've had, usually ends battles with 200 kills.
|
|
#
?
Jan 24, 2018 20:10
|
|
|
My advice for everyone is to start with Arkhan or Khatep. They start with spells that make the early game significantly easier. Arkhan for example can AoE buff all his skellymans to have 50% physical resist. At least so you can get your feet wet and learn the faction. If all the books give spells, it seems bumrushing your nearby first book might also really help.
|
|
#
?
Jan 24, 2018 20:11
|
|
|
How are you goons building Settra? Blue line to lightning strike then, what, red line? Some magic? I havent played since like October and I feel like I've forgotten a lot of game basics.
|
|
#
?
Jan 24, 2018 20:11
|
|
|
PlushCow posted:How are you goons building Settra? Blue line to lightning strike then, what, red line? Some magic? I havent played since like October and I feel like I've forgotten a lot of game basics. I recommend doing a bit of the red line first. Starting Skellymans suck, so the extra MD and Armor is a big deal
|
|
#
?
Jan 24, 2018 20:13
|
|
|
I went down the spell line which was probably a mistake since you can get a hero to do that for you e: is there a respec mod?
|
|
#
?
Jan 24, 2018 20:24
|
|
|
Panfilo posted:Having your starting capital be a minor settlement is total bullshit. It means you have to attack the 'main' settlement that is walled by default and don't get starting walls yourself. I'm not sure if I'd want walls everywhere just because I find sieges really tedious to fight. Much larger garrisons would interest me though, I'm down with fighting a 40 stack with my 20 stack if there aren't any walls. I agree with the other poster that wants the entire strategic layer scrapped and replaced with something that is both fun and provides interesting tactical battles throughout. The current one doesn't really do this. What I find particularly frustrating is how absolutely vital economic and garrison buildings are for any sort of progression. In my last VC game I was able to get away with not building any troop recruitment buildings, had control of all the provinces between my start to the frozen wastes, and still couldn't afford more than two stacks and had to spend 20+ turns (without any armies at all costing upkeep) hitting end turn because the only economic buildings worth anything are tier 4. With other factions it is even worse since you are choosing between growth to have access to higher tier units, money to be able to afford higher tier units, walls so you don't have to turtle, or the buildings that let you actually recruit interesting units. Putting walls, growth, and money in every small settlement, and tearing down growth late game isn't an interesting set of decisions but its often the optimal one. Tomb Kings at least have a reason to diversify a bit.
|
|
#
?
Jan 24, 2018 20:36
|
|
|
make the strategic layer shogun 2
|
|
#
?
Jan 24, 2018 20:37
|
|
|
Senor Dog posted:In my Khalida ME start, I conquered Lahmia after the vamps lost their whole army fighting dwarves so I recommend y’all do that. In a straight fight the Tomb Guard pretty much always lose to Grave Guard, sure, but I think that it's worth keeping in mind that Tomb Guard are not supposed to take on guys like the Grave Guard, they're just supposed to survive for as long as possible while your elite units go to town. That said, Tomb Guard with Halberds can actually do a number on Grave Guard. 
|
|
#
?
Jan 24, 2018 20:38
|
|
|
Xae posted:Holy poo poo, it is hard to state just how bad the low tier TK units are. I feel like some straw scarecrows standing in a line would last longer than the starting skellies. Red line buffs make them, not suck. Not good. But they'll hold long enough for the archers and monsters to clean up.
|
|
#
?
Jan 24, 2018 20:40
|
|
|
StashAugustine posted:make the strategic layer shogun 2 I'm watching videos since I've not played it, but my initial impression is positive. It reminds me of another problem I have with Total War's strategic layer: the AI can't handle it, in part since there are so many trap options.
|
|
#
?
Jan 24, 2018 20:47
|
|
|
turn off the TV posted:In a straight fight the Tomb Guard pretty much always lose to Grave Guard, sure, but I think that it's worth keeping in mind that Tomb Guard are not supposed to take on guys like the Grave Guard, they're just supposed to survive for as long as possible while your elite units go to town. That said, Tomb Guard with Halberds can actually do a number on Grave Guard. The only sad thing is that VCs can churn out a billion grave guard very easily while TKs need a whole bunch of very expensive buildings to get a similar line of tomb guard. I'm actually interested how GG do against TG with both sides' respective buff lores buffing them. Like Djaf's and Ptra's on the TG and Danse and Invocation on the GG.
|
|
#
?
Jan 24, 2018 20:47
|
|
|
Some suggestions about the Tomb Kings: Realm of Souls is neat on paper but a modest heal for fragile units isn't that useful. They need to find a way to make it useful without it being OP in multiplayer. Perhaps each LL gets additional unique effects? Also I'd like more active control over it because it can proc in not-useful times. Basic skeletons seem like they'll be completely obsolete once you have enough provinces to get better units in greater numbers. With other races the benefit of cheap chaff is low upkeep but that is a non issue for TK which eliminates their only possible benefit. Perhaps larger unit sizes and more Stacking research and buffs to make them still worthwhile? Trade buildings are used for making artifacts, a novel idea. But the building themselves aren't terribly useful - it isn't enough trade product to export to more then one trade partner and you get no background income or other benefit. So it seems like you're probably better off only building them when you have the jars for a specific artifact then once that's built demolishing the building and replacing it with something more useful afterward. I think it would be more interesting to give them 3 tiers of trade product building like other factions and have the artifact cost tied to per-turn quantity produced. That's more flexible;you can build up more trade income and have either one fully upgraded mine cover the artifact cost or 3 tier 1 mines.
|
|
#
?
Jan 24, 2018 20:57
|
|
|
turn off the TV posted:In a straight fight the Tomb Guard pretty much always lose to Grave Guard, sure, but I think that it's worth keeping in mind that Tomb Guard are not supposed to take on guys like the Grave Guard, they're just supposed to survive for as long as possible while your elite units go to town. That said, Tomb Guard with Halberds can actually do a number on Grave Guard. Even if I was willing to wait until Lybaras was level three before getting my first full province, that gets you all of one tomb guard with halberds.
|
|
#
?
Jan 24, 2018 21:05
|
|
|
I decided to start a Tretch ME campaign to see what TK impressions were and I'm really glad i did. His bonus skills are great and a Doomwheel makes the start less of a slog. Swarming these dark elves with a bunch of buffed up trash is so much fun.
|
|
#
?
Jan 24, 2018 21:10
|
|
|
For everyone stuck with Khalida’s start, it doesn’t get much easier, you immediately have to deal with Kroq’gar and infinite saurus stacks next. But once you’ve exterminated the lizards you have a ton of breathing room and can go get into the badlands orc/dwarves/skaven brawl. Also I found an early helm of discord and holy poo poo did that thing carry some battles
|
|
#
?
Jan 24, 2018 21:34
|
|
|
Scrub-Niggurath posted:For everyone stuck with Khalida’s start, it doesn’t get much easier, you immediately have to deal with Kroq’gar and infinite saurus stacks next. But once you’ve exterminated the lizards you have a ton of breathing room and can go get into the badlands orc/dwarves/skaven brawl. That starting army Kroq Gar gets is such bullshit in autoresolve. Two full TK armies get stomped vs a 16 unit Lizardmen stack 
|
|
#
?
Jan 24, 2018 21:41
|
|
|
Kaza42 posted:Was playing Vortex Settra, and I conquered the dwarfs to the south of me, but they escaped with one Lord and no army. After hanging out raiding the humans for a while, they suddenly start recruiting and amass a 20 stack of warriors and quarrelers over the course of like 3 turns. I rush to try to stop them, but they take a village of mine and have a SECOND full stack up and running almost immediately after. This is all happening while Settra is on the other side of the continent chasing a Book of Nagash, so I'm trying to throw together a new army in time to stop the beard tide rolling over me. By the time I get them stomped out, they conquered two towns, razed a third and sacked a fourth. I don't know why they were able to recruit units with no towns or buildings, but it's utter bullshit. They may have allied with some-one who then bankrolled them. They'd still need recruitment buildings though.
|
|
#
?
Jan 24, 2018 21:43
|
|
|
Senor Dog posted:Even if I was willing to wait until Lybaras was level three before getting my first full province, that gets you all of one tomb guard with halberds. You don't really want Tomb Guard, though. I think the TK's actual infantry brawler type are the Ushabti (and the ones with bows), which will roll a unit of Grave Guard without losing a model, and only lose a couple to Grave Guard with Great Weapons. For the initial humps of my Khalida campaign I focused almost entirely on spears and archers. Khalida applies some crazy buffs to the Great Bow Ushabti and Skeleton Archers as well, which turns them into miniature artillery pieces alongside her buffs to skeletons. There's also a decent number of Dynasty options to buff archers (like the Herald of Khemri). Some of the skeleton archers in my campaign have around 3.5x missile damage per second as their unbuffed counterparts.
|
|
#
?
Jan 24, 2018 21:48
|
|
|
Panfilo posted:Trade buildings are used for making artifacts, a novel idea. But the building themselves aren't terribly useful - it isn't enough trade product to export to more then one trade partner and you get no background income or other benefit. So it seems like you're probably better off only building them when you have the jars for a specific artifact then once that's built demolishing the building and replacing it with something more useful afterward. I think it would be more interesting to give them 3 tiers of trade product building like other factions and have the artifact cost tied to per-turn quantity produced. That's more flexible;you can build up more trade income and have either one fully upgraded mine cover the artifact cost or 3 tier 1 mines. TK trade buildings are deliberately nerfed because their income scales differently. You still want every drop of gold you can get from the buildings.
|
|
#
?
Jan 24, 2018 21:54
|
|
|
turn off the TV posted:You don't really want Tomb Guard, though. I think the TK's actual infantry brawler type are the Ushabti (and the ones with bows), which will roll a unit of Grave Guard without losing a model, and only lose a couple to Grave Guard with Great Weapons. For the initial humps of my Khalida campaign I focused almost entirely on spears and archers. What are you even arguing with me about
|
|
#
?
Jan 24, 2018 21:55
|
|
|
Voyager I posted:TK trade buildings are deliberately nerfed because their income scales differently. You still want every drop of gold you can get from the buildings. I get that their income will be adjusted by the fact that you aren't spending a penny on recruitment or upkeep, the problem is that these buildings have such a situational use its more worthwhile to build and demolish them as needed, especially in minor settlements.
|
|
#
?
Jan 24, 2018 22:03
|
|
|
StashAugustine posted:I went down the spell line which was probably a mistake since you can get a hero to do that for you The chariot of the gods is really disappointing though.
|
|
#
?
Jan 24, 2018 22:04
|
|
|
Admittedly the only non-character chariots I’ve used have been ithilmar, aka the best, but drat TK chariots are disappointing.
|
|
#
?
Jan 24, 2018 22:04
|
|
|
Panfilo posted:I get that their income will be adjusted by the fact that you aren't spending a penny on recruitment or upkeep, the problem is that these buildings have such a situational use its more worthwhile to build and demolish them as needed, especially in minor settlements. In my current Settra game, a solid half of my income is from trade. I'm making about 2600 per turn, ~1300 from trade, so I'm never really sad to build more trade good buildings
|
|
#
?
Jan 24, 2018 22:04
|
|
|
Senor Dog posted:What are you even arguing with me about Nothing? I just wanted to clarify that I don't think that Khalida should be focusing on getting Grave Guard early in a campaign, either. She's way more about Skeleton Archers, and Ushabti are better anti-infantry. turn off the TV fucked around with this message at 22:11 on Jan 24, 2018 |
|
#
?
Jan 24, 2018 22:05
|
|
|
Impose the build limit restrictions on all factions, please 
|
|
#
?
Jan 24, 2018 22:12
|
|
|
Also, I loaded up Vortex again to check out TK, but as soon as I finished the Top Knotz and realized the map just ended there, I decided to go back to ME. It just feels so odd, I play a lot of dorfs and I miss the lovely badlands and all beyond. That said, ME really still does feel half-assed and I hope either during or after 3, they'll do a final pass and perfect it. Things I miss compared to Vortex: 1. Intro cinematics 2. Your lord getting a spiel at the start instead of the advisor 3. The races feeling really integrated. In the Vortex you get a pretty good sampling of fighting everyone, and the map feels good and, for lack of a better word, real. In ME, you spend most of the game corralled off fighting one or two factions, and the new world bits feel very tacked on and cut down. The new factions basically don't interact with the original factions at all, other than Skavenblight, and of course they interact with NPC factions only. 4. The super generic and time-consuming victory conditions.
|
|
#
?
Jan 24, 2018 22:12
|
|
|
Bedlam posted:I decided to start a Tretch ME campaign to see what TK impressions were and I'm really glad i did. His bonus skills are great and a Doomwheel makes the start less of a slog. Swarming these dark elves with a bunch of buffed up trash is so much fun. With the Retreat buff and then Ambush buff from chasing down the fleeing army on my own turn my starting squad of Death Runners somehow took 300 Dark Elf heads. Made my dumb Doomwheel look like a chump. No one's playing Tretch! Everyone play Tretch!
|
|
#
?
Jan 24, 2018 22:13
|
|
|
Ravenfood posted:The chariot of the gods is really disappointing though. Why? You can mow down 400 infantry per battle and if you gently caress up and get him stuck the aoe explosion will dislodge him so you can keep on going. It takes more effort than the cat but it's way more dangerous to infantry. JBP fucked around with this message at 22:27 on Jan 24, 2018 |
|
#
?
Jan 24, 2018 22:14
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 7, 2024 09:28 |
|
|
Tretch is one of my favorite campaigns so far. Really encourages playing like a cornered rat. You go and pick the biggest most ridiculous fight possible, run away, let them come to you on your turn, run away again and then lay down the gauntlet when your back is against the wall.
|
|
#
?
Jan 24, 2018 22:29
|
|