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TildeATH posted:The hyperspace ram. Hyperspace is an excuse to ignore relativity; it only brings it up in the sense that it says "this doesn't matter."
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Jan 25, 2018 02:53
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Hodgepodge posted:Hyperspace is an excuse to ignore relativity; it only brings it up in the sense that it says "this doesn't matter." Used to be but now the near lightspeed part isn’t your ship receding into hyperspace it’s actually going so fast you’ll zap through a super duper star destroyer.
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Jan 25, 2018 06:07
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They never thought of doing Hyperspace suicide runs because George Lucas never thought of it. There. Done. Goddamnnn.
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Jan 25, 2018 06:31
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Apparently the Last Jedi novelization is going to include the deleted scenes and RJ has collaborated with the author to add new stuff, like Han's funeral. Social media is already up in arms saying that it's Disney's attempt at course-correcting and salvaging their alleged bomb of a movie ha ha
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Jan 25, 2018 07:46
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How much will they pay me to read it
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Jan 25, 2018 07:48
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When did they hold Han's funeral, while lifting off of the starting planet or 36 hours later when they lifted off of the last planet?
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Jan 25, 2018 08:07
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Corky Romanovsky posted:When did they hold Han's funeral, while lifting off of the starting planet or 36 hours later when they lifted off of the last planet? Everyone walked into the escape ships in calm, silent, candlelightsabre vigil
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Jan 25, 2018 09:00
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Did they go back to get Hans splattered corpse?
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Jan 25, 2018 09:58
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Yeah, in the 5 minutes between Han falling down the bottomless pit and the planet blowing up an A-Wing piloted by Lobot flew down to catch the corpse and escape.
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Jan 25, 2018 10:24
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SuperMechagodzilla posted:There absolutely is a space internet in the movie, and assertions like these show that people are not actually following the narrative of the film. i almost cried laughing at this post. absolute gold.
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Jan 25, 2018 11:32
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TildeATH posted:Used to be but now the near lightspeed part isn’t your ship receding into hyperspace it’s actually going so fast you’ll zap through a super duper star destroyer. This is also another reason why hyperspace rams are not that practical of a tactic in most situations, they made it pretty clear she was in range of conventional weaponry and implied she could've been stopped if they realized the threat she presented.
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Jan 25, 2018 11:59
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you could make that argument in the context of just TLJ, but star wars is filled with ships fighting for a long time at very short ranges. you really just have to ignore the inconsistency to make it work. at least it looked cool. In terms of fan-justifying it, i think the best approach is that shields can usually deflect hyperspace ramming attacks, but the flagship had diverted most of its shield power to its genocide cannons TheDeadlyShoe fucked around with this message at 12:24 on Jan 25, 2018 |
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Jan 25, 2018 12:18
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Corky Romanovsky posted:Yeah, in the 5 minutes between Han falling down the bottomless pit and the planet blowing up an A-Wing piloted by Lobot flew down to catch the corpse and escape. Fantastic. I must read this tale.
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Jan 25, 2018 19:28
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SuperMechagodzilla posted:There absolutely is a space internet in the movie, and assertions like these show that people are not actually following the narrative of the film. I haven't been able to tell if you're a parody of academic film analysis or not. I think you've given the game away here.
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Jan 25, 2018 19:40
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The reason Holdo could do the hyperspace ram is because the technology they were using to track them displaced hyperspace in that localised area and allowed for the Raddus to interact with real space even at super luminal speeds. This is why neither technique will be mentioned ever again.
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Jan 25, 2018 20:03
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SuperMechagodzilla posted:There absolutely is a space internet in the movie, and assertions like these show that people are not actually following the narrative of the film. There is an analogy to be made between this connection and the internet, but isn't that reifying the internet at the only possible manifestation of human intercommunication? The effect of Luke's death is closer to that of Christ, the "good news" which liberates people. Even if Vader was the Christ figure, his death was still private, for and between him and his son. Luke's sacrifice was a public act made for the sake of everyone, which is an important component which was missing from Vader's. The story of Christ also spread despite all attempts to silence it, without any need for an electronic internet, or even the printing press. Hodgepodge fucked around with this message at 22:56 on Jan 25, 2018 |
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Jan 25, 2018 22:50
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Hodgepodge posted:There is an analogy to be made between this connection and the internet, but isn't that reifying the internet at the only possible manifestation of human intercommunication? The effect of Luke's death is closer to that of Christ, the "good news" which liberates people. Even if Vader was the Christ figure, his death was still private, for and between him and his son. Luke's sacrifice was a public act made for the sake of everyone, which is an important component which was missing from Vader's. Not every person who sacrifices themselves is a Christ figure, and ‘publicity’ has nothing to do with it. Vader dies for our sins, while Luke does not. Luke gets raptured up to meet Eywa while... “with Christ, on the contrary, God himself becomes man so that, with the death of Christ, this man (ecce homo) , God (of beyond) himself also dies. The true "Christological" version of The Last Jedi would thus entail a radically different scenario: Luke should have been a direct human embodiment of the Force, so that, when he dies, the Force itself destroys itself.” -Zizek (paraphrased) And we should be clear that this already happened in Return Of The Jedi, with Vader who was the incarnation of God. The event has already taken place and what we have with this Eywa is not the big Other but an Other Of The Other - a false god to fill the void after God’s death on the cross. As opposed to the Holy Spirit, which is accessible to anyone, the bionet is specifically an organic internet only accessible to ‘sensitives’ - i.e. psychic mutants. That’s why it’s important to read things carefully. Look at this line: “Strike me down in anger and I will always be with you. Just like your father.” Luke is blatantly wrong in two ways here. First, Ren obviously did not strike down his father in anger. But second - and more importantly - Luke will not be like Han, because Luke’s talking about uploading a copy of his mind into the bionet ‘cloud’, whereas Han was just a normal man whose soul persists in a purely metaphorical way. The distinction between literal and figurative immortality has already been thoroughly explored in films like Chappie and - yup - Revenge Of The Sith. Luke’s soul rests on the island, and what persists is this literally-existing immortal demonic figure. It’s just like Yoda, who appears as this immortal imp. “I will be the most powerful Jedi ever. I promise you. I will even learn to stop people from dying!”
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Jan 26, 2018 01:09
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Luke took the ol' AWS certification test in the sky.
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Jan 26, 2018 01:15
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SuperMechagodzilla posted:
Isn't he though? He's being forced to kill these people, Snoke says as much in TLJ.
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Jan 26, 2018 01:42
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bushisms.txt posted:Isn't he though? He's being forced to kill these people, Snoke says as much in TLJ. Kylo is? How so? I'm not saying you're wrong, I just don't remember.
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Jan 26, 2018 02:15
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bushisms.txt posted:Isn't he though? He's being forced to kill these people, Snoke says as much in TLJ. we've seen what kylo ren looks and acts like when he's angry, pretty much entirely so that we can contrast it with how not angry he is when he kills his father
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Jan 26, 2018 02:19
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it's semi-oedipal...kylo penetrates han with his lazer sword because he's unable to penetrate him with his tiny weenis this is disney's attempt to cross-sell viagra and also legitimize incest in one stroke
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Jan 26, 2018 02:20
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ungulateman posted:we've seen what kylo ren looks and acts like when he's angry, pretty much entirely so that we can contrast it with how not angry he is when he kills his father Snoke: and look at you, the deed split your spirit to the bone, you're unbalanced. How does one kill their parents and not be a little angry at them? Maybe for sending him to a dude who would try to kill him while he slept? Also, star wars math via yoda, fear (luke attacking ben) leads to anger (check), anger leads to hate, hate leads to suffering. So to be dark side you're kind of like the hulk, you're always angry.
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Jan 26, 2018 02:39
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ungulateman posted:we've seen what kylo ren looks and acts like when he's angry, pretty much entirely so that we can contrast it with how not angry he is when he kills his father Oh, that.  Yeah, you're definitely right about that. BTW, I theorize that Kylo was asking his father to kill him. He says, " I want to be free of this pain. I know what I have to do, but I don't know if I have the strength to do it. Will you help me?" Then when they're both holding the saber there's a long pause. Perhaps Kylo's hoping his father would stop him. But Han refused. Ema Nymton fucked around with this message at 03:07 on Jan 26, 2018 |
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Jan 26, 2018 02:59
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SuperMechagodzilla posted:Not every person who sacrifices themselves is a Christ figure, and ‘publicity’ has nothing to do with it. Vader dies for our sins, while Luke does not. Luke gets raptured up to meet Eywa while... Once the death of Christ is known, then everyone who sacrifices themselves in a Christ-like way is Christ: quote:Here, then, is your pie in the sky or opium of the people, your soft-eyed consolation and pale-cheeked piety. Here is the fantasy and escapism that the hard-headed secularist pragmatist finds so distasteful. Freud saw religion as the mitigation of the harshness of the human condition; but it would surely be at least as plausible to claim that what we call reality is a mitigation of the Gospel's ruthless demands, which include such agreeable acts of escapism as being ready to lay down your life for a total stranger. Imitating Jesus means imitating his death as well as his life, since the two are not finally distinguishable. The death is the consummation of the life, the place where the ultimate meaning of Jesus's self-giving is revealed. Why are you assuming that only "sensitives" now have access to the Force, something you know has never been true, when shown a slave learning to use it simply by hearing about Luke's death? By exalting one sacrifice over another as the only Christ-like sacrifice, are you not the one who is reserving God for the chosen few? Vader very much dies for Luke specifically, his own sins specifically. The only sense that his sacrifice can become universal is this sense. He would not have cared if anyone but Luke died; he would have killed them himself, except that he would not have presumed to interrupt his master's pleasure. And the Force very much is the Holy Spirit: quote:But there was a certain man, called Simon, which beforetime in the same city used sorcery, and bewitched the people of Samaria, giving out that himself was some great one: To whom they all gave heed, from the least to the greatest, saying, This man is the great power of God. And to him they had regard, because that of long time he had bewitched them with sorceries. But when they believed Philip preaching the things concerning the kingdom of God, and the name of Jesus Christ, they were baptized, both men and women. Then Simon himself believed also: and when he was baptized, he continued with Philip, and wondered, beholding the miracles and signs which were done. Hodgepodge fucked around with this message at 03:31 on Jan 26, 2018 |
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Jan 26, 2018 03:19
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I mean, the Force is a power which connects living beings to each other. Had it died the Galaxy would only be a place of cold science where the ultimate power was the Death Star. That would be the opposite of the death of Christ; the execution of anything which could oppose Rome, the eternal triumph of the Empire.
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Jan 26, 2018 03:39
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Hodgepodge posted:Once the death of Christ is known, then everyone who sacrifices themselves in a Christ-like way is Christ: Well no; that’s silly. Then you have Tony Stark sacrificing himself to nuke the alien civilization and you’d declare him Christ. Or, going further, you have Anakin Skywalker sacrificing himself for the cause of fascism. And, in reality, we have such as the Heaven’s Gate cultists. The trouble is not what Eagleton says but that your definition of ‘Christ-like’ is hopelessly nonspecific. Hodgepodge posted:Why are you assuming that only "sensitives" now have access to the Force, something you know has never been true, when shown a slave learning to use it simply by hearing about Luke's death? ‘Force sensitivity’ has always been the term for the specific mutation that allows one to access the bionet. If a character accessed the bionet, they are - by definition - ‘sensitive’. Basically, you’re claiming that Luke irradiated the population of half the galaxy and caused them to mutate. I’m not sure that’s the best interpretation of the ending.
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Jan 26, 2018 03:40
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SuperMechagodzilla posted:And, in reality, we have such as the Heaven’s Gate cultists. there's no need to bring michael cimino into this
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Jan 26, 2018 03:50
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SuperMechagodzilla posted:Well no; that’s silly. Then you have Tony Stark sacrificing himself to nuke the alien civilization and you’d declare him Christ. Or, going further, you have Anakin Skywalker sacrificing himself for the cause of fascism. And, in reality, we have such as the Heaven’s Gate cultists. The trouble is not what Eagleton says but that your definition of ‘Christ-like’ is hopelessly nonspecific. No more silly than calling the death of Vader, an unrepentant mass-murderer, child killer, and high priest of Satan, for the sake of the one specific individual he gave a poo poo about, Christ-like. Luke's death is much more like Christ's, he dies for the sake of Rome (which is both the First Order and the Resistance) and specifically for love of the person who betrayed him and destroyed everything he built. The term 'Force sensitive' has never been used in the Star Wars films. One very talented individual has been determined to have a very high midichlorian count, while others have been said to be powerful in it, that is all. The Force is something everyone uses, a few specific religious orders simply knew about it while others did not.
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Jan 26, 2018 03:50
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Actually, I think this reveals a slight flaw in your argument that Vader is Christ, more significant and interesting than the others I mention. In the story of Christ, there is someone who is all those terrible things, who dies for His Son, the one person He cares about, and that is God (as distinct from Christ). Christ, then, is Luke, the only begotten Son of God, who rejects the offer to follow in his father's footsteps and become Him, and accepts his destiny to die for the sake of all humanity.
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Jan 26, 2018 03:56
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Luke Skynwalker is Internet Jesus. I guess this is better than bizarre hyperspace chat
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Jan 26, 2018 03:58
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UmOk posted:Luke Skynwalker is Internet Jesus. Nah, SMG's talk about the internet is just him being confused. People project their image over vast spaces all the time in Star Wars. People have always been connected by magic powers in Star Wars. The internet is a technological construction with an infrastructure and user interfaces, like the former. Like the former, it can be hacked into, etc. Unlike the Force, you can buy expertise in technological communications with money and power. The latter is something else entirely. The whole idea that the Force is the Internet is the subject of the Canto Bight plot in TLJ. Relying on that idea is what almost gets the Resistance slaughtered. e: the idea that only "mutants" can use the Force, here, is the idea that the Jews being the chosen people of God was true on what we would now call a genetic level. e2: as an extension of this, SMG's whole internet thing is just protesting that God is Jewish. Hodgepodge fucked around with this message at 04:20 on Jan 26, 2018 |
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Jan 26, 2018 04:04
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Hodgepodge posted:No more silly than calling the death of Vader, an unrepentant mass-murderer, child killer, and high priest of Satan, for the sake of the one specific individual he gave a poo poo about, Christ-like. Sounds like you just found out about the Old Testament. And that reveals a pretty basic unfamiliarity with both the bible and with Star Wars. God and Christ are not the same person. Nor are Anakin and Vader. Anakin is the incarnation of the Old Testament God who created Satan and dispenses wrath and plagues. Vader, on the other hand, is forsaken by God. (“Father, why have you forsaken me?”) These are important distinctions that are paved over in your New-Age interpretation of God as utopian internet deity who offers transcendence into a Second Life.
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Jan 26, 2018 04:42
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SuperMechagodzilla posted:Sounds like you just found out about the Old Testament. No, I agree with you somewhat, but added another post developing my thoughts in that direction. Except that there is no repentance for Anakin in Vader. He does not become his own son, and insofar as he is a new person, he is one who coexists in the same body as the old. Anakin never goes away, and it is only Vader who is painfully aware of this fact.
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Jan 26, 2018 04:55
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Honestly, your petty jab there just reveals that, like many Christians, you want the Big Other to come punish the wicked. I'm quite familiar with the line of thinking that wishes that Christ would be more Old Testament, it is no more sophisticated than that of a child's tantrum. e: as an aside, every actual new ager I have met longs for God to cleanse the wicked as well, they are not far removed from their Midwestern relatives. The political manifestation of this is dreaming of a vague revolution; this is what Vader-as-Christ suggest. First against the wall and all that. Hodgepodge fucked around with this message at 05:14 on Jan 26, 2018 |
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Jan 26, 2018 05:06
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TheDeadlyShoe posted:you could make that argument in the context of just TLJ, but star wars is filled with ships fighting for a long time at very short ranges. Have you ever seen, like, any other movie where one ship rammed another? Did you also walk out of those baffled at why boats and planes and space ships don't just crash into each other all the time?
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Jan 26, 2018 05:25
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Hodgepodge posted:No, I agree with you somewhat, but added another post developing my thoughts in that direction. Your interpretation is based on various weird assertions - like that God died long before the crucifixion of his son. (If Luke is Christ, as you insist, then there’s a forty year gap.) And then, ‘son of god’ does not refer to a literal son, like Jesus had sex with Mary Magdalene and so his bloodline continues as in The Da Vinci Code or whatever. It’s a metaphor. Your other weird assertion is that identity is stored somewhere ‘inside the body’, and so Anakin’s identity persists despite having his face burnt off and his psychology altered by immense trauma. The idea that Vader doesn’t realize what Anakin did was wrong, and doesn’t change his ways, is just kind of obviously false. (I think what you’re grappling with here is the idea that Christ experienced temptation.) But anyways, you’re going on these various tangents to avoid the basic points - like that (1) Luke is not the incarnation of The Force and (2) the Force doesn’t die with Luke, freeing humanity from its influence. And (3) the miracles of the Bible aren’t literal. Jesus does not promise psychic powers like telekinesis to his followers. That’s like antichrist stuff.
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Jan 26, 2018 05:56
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Tender Bender posted:Have you ever seen, like, any other movie where one ship rammed another? Did you also walk out of those baffled at why boats and planes and space ships don't just crash into each other all the time? .... have you ever heard of missiles? 
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Jan 26, 2018 06:09
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SuperMechagodzilla posted:Your interpretation is based on various weird assertions - like that God died long before the crucifixion of his son. (If Luke is Christ, as you insist, then there’s a forty year gap.) Well yeah. I mean, Jerusalem is not in a distant galaxy, although I suppose two thousand years ago could be called "a long long time ago." In the New Testament, Jesus is literally God's son with Mary, wife of Joseph. That this should be an impossibility but is anyway is central to the story being told. Mary Magdalene is a different person, one of Christ's disciples. Christ and God are taken to be the same person, but also distinct; one of the distinctions is that God is Christ's father, and Christ is God's son. It is a metaphor, and that family relationship is the metaphor. If Christ is a person who used to be God and then did things he regretted and became Christ and pretended that God was his dad and not himself, we are not talking about something with any relationship with the New Testament or its metaphors. Under Vader's mask, there is Anakin. He doesn't become an entirely different person by putting a mask on. From an earlier post in this thread: quote:SMG puts a lot of emphasis on the Vader/Anakin distinction, but one of his more insightful points has been the importance of the sphere he retreats into to be alone. Vader is first and foremost a persona, one which requires repressing and concealing Anakin. He only ever allows himself to relax this repression when he is able to completely block out the outside world within a literal shell. That's not to say that Anakin is his true self; more that even as he is painfully aware of the distinction between Anakin and Vader, he could never really experience being only one or the other. The only time he is ever a whole person is when he lets lose his anger at the ugliness and injustice and sheer pain of life. I've posted before about Christ's temptations and Vader. Christ is tempted in the desert by Satan to rule the world; unlike Vader, Christ rejects the offer. Anakin accepts Satan's offer and becomes Vader. This is way in which Luke is more Christ-like than Vader; when offered Satanic power, he rejects it. Vader not only rules the world, a thing Christ explicitly does not do, he does so under the mastery of Satan, an act a Rabbi could only interpret as a bad joke based on a very confused understanding of the text if applied to the Biblical God. Star Wars draws significantly upon the Bible, but they are not precisely the same story. Star Wars has more lasers. Hodgepodge fucked around with this message at 07:03 on Jan 26, 2018 |
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Jan 26, 2018 06:30
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TheDeadlyShoe posted:.... How many crew members are on the typical missile? 
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Jan 26, 2018 06:38
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