Register a SA Forums Account here!
JOINING THE SA FORUMS WILL REMOVE THIS BIG AD, THE ANNOYING UNDERLINED ADS, AND STUPID INTERSTITIAL ADS!!!

You can: log in, read the tech support FAQ, or request your lost password. This dumb message (and those ads) will appear on every screen until you register! Get rid of this crap by registering your own SA Forums Account and joining roughly 150,000 Goons, for the one-time price of $9.95! We charge money because it costs us money per month for bills, and since we don't believe in showing ads to our users, we try to make the money back through forum registrations.
 
  • Locked thread
JBP
Feb 16, 2017

You've got to know, to understand,
Baby, take me by my hand,
I'll lead you to the promised land.

bigis posted:

in this economy

Piss off Milton.

Adbot
ADBOT LOVES YOU

Solemn Sloth
Jul 11, 2015

Baby you can shout at me,
But you can't need my eyes.
People still attempting to give me feedback on a draft submission when the deadline for submission to the state government is today good fuckin luck with that mateys

Eediot Jedi
Dec 25, 2007

This is where I begin to speculate what being a
man of my word costs me

my feedback would be bury a link to tfab's latest adventure in the appendix

JBP
Feb 16, 2017

You've got to know, to understand,
Baby, take me by my hand,
I'll lead you to the promised land.

Knobb Manwich posted:

my feedback would be bury a link to tfab's latest adventure in the appendix

Korgan
Feb 14, 2012


Knobb Manwich posted:

my feedback would be bury a link to tfab's latest adventure in the appendix

Isn't that where he buried the buttplug?

Recoome
Nov 9, 2013

Matter of fact, I'm salty now.
No it was the sigmoid colon

JBP
Feb 16, 2017

You've got to know, to understand,
Baby, take me by my hand,
I'll lead you to the promised land.

Recoome posted:

No it was the capacious sigmoid colon

Periphery
Jul 27, 2003
...
What happens if all the train drivers happen to get sick and be unable to work on Monday?

bigis
Jun 21, 2006
They’ll magically get 6% for four years

JBP
Feb 16, 2017

You've got to know, to understand,
Baby, take me by my hand,
I'll lead you to the promised land.

Periphery posted:

What happens if all the train drivers happen to get sick and be unable to work on Monday?

They will be fined for colluding to take unlawful industrial action

G-Spot Run
Jun 28, 2005
Of all the reasons to put forward...

"force the cancellations of elective surgery"

Every day surgery I've had required a support person to come pick me up. I'm sure if you're a total loner a taxi would be begrudgingly accepted but PT was right out. What fraction of surgeries are not eligible for driving yourself home for safety concerns but would still let you hop on a train.

You Am I
May 20, 2001

Me @ your poasting

It's loving disgusting that we have become a country where it is illegal to stop work due to lovely pay conditions.

I'm sure the original members of the Labor Party are spinning in their graves and the remaining part of Tree of Knowledge is currently in flames

Zenithe
Feb 25, 2013

Ask not to whom the Anidavatar belongs; it belongs to thee.

JBP posted:

They will be fined for colluding to take unlawful industrial action

Is this for real?

Schlesische
Jul 4, 2012

Zenithe posted:

Is this for real?

100%.

Recoome
Nov 9, 2013

Matter of fact, I'm salty now.
Maybe the socialist allternative are on to something...

ewe2
Jul 1, 2009

Workchoices won. There's not much else to say about it. But don't worry about the Vic Elections, I'm fairly certain Victorians will remember why they didn't vote Liberal last time and they only have to look at that cockhead Guy's face for a refresher.

I would blow Dane Cook
Dec 26, 2008

quote:

Here's What A Train Driver Thinks Of The Sydney Strike


Since Christmas Eve, Charlie’s* only had five days off of work.

For eight years, he’s been dedicated to his job. He loves his job. It’s challenging and mentally demanding but Charlie knows it inside out. Yet lately, excessive overtime and an increased workload has left him feeling dispirited and disillusioned.

Charlie is a Sydney Train Driver and he’s exhausted.

It’s been a nightmare month for Sydney Trains. A new timetable threw the system into disarray, with many services delayed or cancelled entirely, on January 9 and 10. The following week, 38 services across the network were cancelled due to insufficient staff being available to man the trains. On January 22, a train hit a buffer stop at Richmond.

Today, an overtime ban will see 1300 cancellations across the network and next week rail services will come to a complete stand still as drivers and station staff take industrial action, striking on Monday, January 29.
Image: Getty

In the midst of the chaos, the Rail, Tram and Bus Union (RTBU) have been in an oft-venomous back-and-forth with train bosses and the Government negotiating a new Enterprise Bargaining Agreement (EBA). Whereas most reports suggest the major dispute centres around increasing worker’s pay, Charlie paints a different picture – one that is as concerned about the future of the network as any pay rise.

“I believe people think it is only about pay. It’s not just about pay. It is about the Liberal government outsourcing, cutting funding and privatising everything that they can within the railways. I know the union, as part of this deal, are seeking some sort of reassurance that more jobs will not be replaced by contractors.”

And it’s not just drivers that are involved in the upcoming industrial action. It extends to guards, station staff, signallers, train control, office workers and everyone covered by the enterprise agreement. Job security is important to these sections of the workforce, who have seen mates made redundant in favour of private contractors.

As for driver’s paychecks, Charlie doesn’t believe the demands are unreasonable. While the Government and Trains bosses have stated that a 2.5 per cent increase is what they’re willing to give, workers have been pushing for a 6 per cent increase each year for four years.

“Six per cent per year for four years would bring driver pay to the same rate as Brisbane and Melbourne, who are actively seeking out Sydney's train drivers as we are qualified to the national standard.”

Drivers are working longer than they have in the past. Charlie claims they are covering up to 12 per cent more kilometres than four years ago, the last time a new enterprise bargaining agreement was discussed. Those increases are exhausting.

“They are rostering us to do longer hours and more kilometres per fortnight, which is also contributing to fatigue levels.”

They want respect and they don’t want to be blamed for the networks missteps, especially as they are the ones that are responsible for holding it together.

Well, almost holding it together.

“The network is in shambles, there are so many patch jobs on broken rails it’s scary to think about, the maintenance budget was massively reduced when Gladys was Transport Minister and it really shows now. I'm sure even commuters notice the rough rides and the failing signals and points.”

The issues extend back to the amount of staff on the payroll. Charlie explains that, even with drivers putting in their maximum overtime, the lack of drivers means the current timetable is unlikely to work for many months.

“There is a saying amongst crew that ‘Even if we didn't have passengers, we still wouldn't run on time’ and it's true. The aging infrastructure, old trains, and the amount of procedures that need to be followed for even the slightest hiccups all contribute to this.”

In regards to the current timetable, which was put into place in late November, he’s a lot more blunt.

“They simply ran out of drivers that had any will to continue doing overtime by the time the full timetable came into effect.”

Charlie would have already moved to Melbourne or Brisbane if he didn’t have a family, home and friends in Sydney. However, others have made the move, taking on similar roles in Victoria and Queensland rail for better pay. The exodus has caused even bigger issues for the Sydney Trains network already stretched to its limit.

“One of the biggest problems for Sydney Trains right now, is both of these cities are stealing more drivers than what Sydney Trains can train, and even then, many new drivers quit within the first few months, or move to the aforementioned cities for better rates.”

Training drivers isn’t easy. Replacing staff that leave for jobs interstate takes time.

It takes five months to train as a guard and a year to become a qualified driver. The skills drain is real. In the 2013-2014 financial year, Sydney Trains reported that 2447 people were employed as ‘train crew’.

For the 2016-2017 financial year, that number had increased by only 22, an increase of 0.9 per cent. In the same time period, weekday services have increased from 2708 to 3200, an increase of 18 per cent. There are more services than ever before, but staffing them is an ever-increasing problem.

It may come as a surprise, but the skills necessary to drive a train aren’t as simple as knowing when to brake and when to accelerate.

That list is long.

Charlie details for me, point after point, the things that drivers are required to know.

Things like track names and platform names, how to prepare the train every morning, their maximum speeds, where the signals are and where they take you, every station on the network and their order, their grades, and their slope.

And he has to remember them while making sure that he always acts within the legislation of the Rail Safety Act.

If something goes wrong, the driver has to know how to fix it. In a rail system that uses eight different types of train, that’s no small feat.

And yet, Charlie still speaks fondly of the job.

“All of us are very attached to the network. We love it, just as a truck driver loves his rig, or a greens keeper loves the putting green on the 18th hole, no one wants to see the network fail.”

However, he admits this contributes to the excessive overtime that many drivers put in.

“When someone calls you at 2am to ask you to do a days work on short notice, it's very hard to say no, especially if they are begging you because they have no one else to ask. We wouldn't be so overworked if we weren't so dedicated to our jobs.”

The start of the scheduled industrial action is an overtime ban, which begins January 25. This ban will ensure workers limit their hours to those specified in their contract.

“Honestly, it's not going to be pretty”

“We are looking at 1300 services cancelled every day for the foreseeable future. It will be a complete nightmare for commuters. Every train I see in the morning peak is absolutely packed, but half that capacity and it will just be impossible.”

Charlie made it clear that he, and many other drivers, did not want to strike.

Emergency talks to resolve the dispute have been underway since January 22 but RTBU secretary Alex Claassens stated during that day of negotiations that there were still issues that the Union had concerns about. They provided union members with an offer on January 23, but only 5.93% voted yes to suspending industrial action.

Coupled with the overtime ban, the coming weeks look grim for Sydney Trains and for commuters.

After ten years as a guard and driver, and the sole income earner in his household, the struggles of the last few weeks and the current dispute makes him feel at risk.

“While I don't think i'm going to lose my house, I still have to worry about the cost of living that has been steadily increasing in Sydney these past few years.”

But putting EBA disputes, privatisation and his own paycheck aside isn’t easy but it’s safety that Charlie is most worried about. Not just for himself as a driver, but for the commuting public. The one million people that use the Sydney Trains network everyday.

Charlie can see the problems piling up - maintenance spending has been reduced to all time lows, train crews are fatigued from long hours and management are pressuring staff to break the Rail Safety Act just to keep the trains running.

On top of that, the new timetable pushes the speed and capabilities of the train fleet to their absolute maximum.

His greatest concern is that these compounding problems lead to a repeat of the Granville disaster, Australia’s worst rail disaster, where 84 people were killed after a train derailed and slammed into a bridge.

“I don't want myself, workmates or the general public to be involved in something like that just to save a few dollars or to make the railway look more attractive to the private sector.”

*Driver's name has been changed to protect privacy.


https://www.lifehacker.com.au/2018/01/heres-what-a-train-driver-thinks-of-the-sydney-strike/

JBP
Feb 16, 2017

You've got to know, to understand,
Baby, take me by my hand,
I'll lead you to the promised land.

Zenithe posted:

Is this for real?

Lmao. Come with me child.

Quasimango
Mar 10, 2011

God damn you.

lmao, that's almost as bad a representation as the American right-wing cartoonists who portray Trump with a six-pack and square jaw.

Paracausal
Sep 5, 2011

Oh yeah, baby. Frame your suffering as a masterpiece. Only one problem - no one's watching. It's boring, buddy, boring as death.
The Caucasian gangs in Melbourne are looking to try and recreate the Cronulla riots in St Kilda tomorrow, so if you're in the area look after yourself.

Recoome
Nov 9, 2013

Matter of fact, I'm salty now.
Any Brisgoons going to the invasion day protest? (I’ll be there)

You Am I
May 20, 2001

Me @ your poasting

TG-Chrono posted:

The Caucasian gangs in Melbourne are looking to try and recreate the Cronulla riots in St Kilda tomorrow, so if you're in the area look after yourself.

I hope they get the poo poo kicked out of them

Konomex
Oct 25, 2010

a whiteman who has some authority over others, who not only hasn't raped anyone, or stared at them creepily...
I read that they won't allow the train drivers to strike because it will cost the state $90 million dollars for that one day.

If they help generate that much revenue why the hell don't they give them the pay rise they're asking for?

Wasn't Eureka Stockade about people fighting for their rights and the government coming in and just bulldozing them, maybe they need to take a page out of Australia's history books and just cop the fines. Cop the fines until the state gives in. Like when the New York garage men left the city to swelter in a flood of trash. Whats more, refuse to return to work as a whole unless they waive the fines as well, amnesty for all involved.

People power drat it.

Sludge Tank
Jul 31, 2007

by Azathoth

JBP posted:

That was the good old system, but then irl crooks took over in the 70s and 80s and then, welp...

Anyway it's legit terrifying taking industrial action of this magnitude. The drivers are going to cop poo poo from every angle, including personal attacks on them. Like seven years ago I did an industrial action at a chicken factory and killed 250,000 birds waiting in trucks and some tool sent a bloodied chicken's head to my house. In the mail. Mail isn't for that!

Was that when that guys head got cut off?

G-Spot Run
Jun 28, 2005

Konomex posted:

Like when the New York garage men left the city to swelter in a flood of trash. Whats more, refuse to return to work as a whole unless they waive the fines as well, amnesty for all involved.

This is tremendous. Someone call the RTBU.

MikeJF
Dec 20, 2003




Go into work on Monday, but collectively have every train driver at once hand in their four week notice.

When fwc bans it, call it slavery; literally refusing to let people quit a job.

Starshark
Dec 22, 2005
Doctor Rope

Konomex posted:

I read that they won't allow the train drivers to strike because it will cost the state $90 million dollars for that one day.

If they help generate that much revenue why the hell don't they give them the pay rise they're asking for?


First, you have to explain to a politician that mass transport is a means for the economy to grow, it's not a business in itself. I'll come back when you've done that.

G-Spot Run
Jun 28, 2005
Resignation is overkill. They can hold them to ransom without giving them excuse to give their jobs away later. If they just stayed off work they can't just get train drivers at a temp agency. Even if they 456'd it would be months of recruitment and local network training.

Doctor Spaceman
Jul 6, 2010

"Everyone's entitled to their point of view, but that's seriously a weird one."
https://twitter.com/JennaGuillaume/status/956369288746565633

Starshark
Dec 22, 2005
Doctor Rope
I'll admit I don't follow Mia Freedman, but does she actually have a political position or does she just do articles like 'LOSE WEIGHT BY EATING CHOCOLATE CAKE'?

Tokamak
Dec 22, 2004

I imagine it is whatever milquetoast centre-left opinions bring in the clicks.

I would blow Dane Cook
Dec 26, 2008
Quick, I need the hottest takes about Australia Day and I need them now. Inject them right into my veins.

I would blow Dane Cook
Dec 26, 2008

Krabboss
Nov 11, 2016

MY HUSBAND'S PARSE IS BETTER THAN YOURS

It's cool to have so little self awareness that you can't see that being friends with the far right and being criticized by the left probably means you're not particularly left wing.

I would blow Dane Cook
Dec 26, 2008
centrists are the worst

NTRabbit
Aug 15, 2012

i wear this armour to protect myself from the histrionics of hysterical women

bitches




She's a trust fund child wet Liberal who believes that her particular brand of conservative second wave feminism is the only right one, there's never been anything remotely left about her

bandaid.friend
Apr 25, 2017

:obama:My first car was a stick:obama:
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-01-25/australia-day-first-fleet-should-be-remembered-on-january-26/9360398
Article by president of the Fellowship of First Fleeters goes on about how brave and hard working they were and how fantastic and amazing Phillip was

quote:

Too much drivel about past injustices. When will the whinging ever stop?

I suspect that ANY day chosen to set aside to celebrate Australia Day will irritate many indigenous rights activists and the pious left-whingers in our capital cities - especially in Sydney - so just leave it as January 26th and get over it.

I know a fair bit about being told by Australia to "get over it" myself, and that is what I'm doing.

My beautiful healthy wife died suddenly in 2016 because a pharmacist gave her the wrong pills. He still works as a pharmacist and has faced no penalty, just some additional training - and I just have to get over it.

Would it be rational for my direct descendants to still be whinging about the injustice of my wife's death more than 200 years later in 2218?

I don't think so.

GET OVER IT.

quote:

It is unfortunate that many (but not all) members of our indigenous population regard January 26 as "Invasion Day. They fail to recognise that if the British had not colonised Australia in 1788, then the French, Dutch or Portuguese probably would have done so within a very short time. The Aboriginal culture was probably doomed from that time - it was only a matter of which colonial power actually colonised the country, and their attitudes towards the local population.

quote:

Aboriginal society had lots of tribal warfare that resulted in massacres, slavery and dispossession all the time - what exactly is your point?

quote:

Well you are entitled to spruke a point of view M as am I. From my perspective your first sentence is relevant, but the remainder is in my perspective unadulterated rubbish. Convicts released from a ship after months at sea did not, and physically or militarily invade anything, least of all the Australian land mass.

The attempts to invent history, as mirrored by other supposed nations with an agenda to play out are well recognised and forever will remain unsubstantiated by facts.

Yes, some of our nations first settlers suffered at the hands of the British aristocracy and revolting criminals, but no more than those enslaved and transported to Oz by them, or any of the other nations populations that were terrorised under their Imperial regimes and cultures.

In India they lashed protesting nationals to the muzzles of cannons and blew them away. I suppose you will find evidence of that here too if your imagination continues on its fertile rampaging expansion.
I believe those convicts were accompanied by marines

quote:

abc.net.au has posted a survey to "VOTE" for an alternative National Day

There is no option to remain the same

This agenda is being pushed by the ABC.

There net result of changing Australia Day from January 26th, will be to allow the bludgers' who refuse to acknowledge what was done to Aboriginal Australians, who refuse to accept we need a reconciliation, who refuse to see the need for Treaty, will be given more opportunity to ignore the uncomfortable truths. The issues that make Australia Day uncomfortable are the very reasons why it should not change.


REMEMBER!. Always REMEMBER. Treaty Now! Don't allow the White bludgers' to continue to ignore and deny

I would blow Dane Cook
Dec 26, 2008

quote:

My beautiful healthy wife died suddenly in 2016 because a pharmacist gave her the wrong pills. He still works as a pharmacist and has faced no penalty, just some additional training - and I just have to get over it.

That, uh, escalated quickly.

Schlesische
Jul 4, 2012

quote:

It is unfortunate that many (but not all) members of our indigenous population regard January 26 as "Invasion Day. They fail to recognise that if the British had not colonised Australia in 1788, then the French, Dutch or Portuguese probably would have done so within a very short time. The Aboriginal culture was probably doomed from that time - it was only a matter of which colonial power actually colonised the country, and their attitudes towards the local population.

a) The French and Dutch had tried landing in Australia; they thought the land was absolute poo poo and not worth anything.
b) The Spanish and Portuguese weren't exactly doing crash hot in the 1780s and had basically stopped functioning as nation states for surprisingly long periods.
c) The French had a history of being marginally better to the natives in Canada. Much worse to slaves in the Caribbean, but better to the First Peoples. Like the Native Americans tended to side with the French in the massive slap fights that broke out between England and France throughout the period where France had noticeable colonies in North America. Similar things could be said about the Dutch although they often let their... "Dutchyness"... override basic humanity. The Spanish weren't that bad either; they wanted everyone to convert to Catholicism and they wanted all the gold but they also tended to integrate into their colonial communities and when compared to the British approach of "you're in our way and we're better than you" the Spanish were arguably miles better. We won't speak of the Portuguese. Or the Belgians. Or the Prussians, who colonised what is now Papua New Guinea.

We forget it now, but we're literally the consolation prize to the UK for having a batshit insane king, a greedy parliament and managing to lose to a bunch of upstart colonials in America. We're the second wave; France is like 10 years from revolution, Spain has been in a century long slump (that was arguably caused by South American silver), Portugal was... Portugal.
The British were not good or kind colonials and tended to just do what they wanted. When they finally stopped doing that the Colonial Americans had largely stopped listening and just said "gently caress it lets colonise the poo poo outta this place anyway!".

Schlesische fucked around with this message at 14:51 on Jan 25, 2018

Adbot
ADBOT LOVES YOU

Eediot Jedi
Dec 25, 2007

This is where I begin to speculate what being a
man of my word costs me

I would blow Dane Cook posted:

That, uh, escalated quickly.

I don't think he got over it

  • Locked thread