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Feinne posted:Hey you can totally solve two problems at once, open up a new loving prison wing for everyone responsible and boom they don't need to be in solitary anymore. Now that's problem-solving!
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Jan 25, 2018 04:21
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Mahoning posted:The only way I’d let up even a little bit on my opinion that she should rot in prison alongside Nassar is if she used her excellent fundraising skills (that the Board of Trustees can’t shut up about in the face of a massive sexual assault coverup scandal) to set up a fund for victims for ongoing therapy or, gently caress it, if they wanna buy a house in Maui for all I care. The BOT announced the creation of just such a fund back in December. (for therapy, that is)
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Jan 25, 2018 04:44
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Rachael Denhollander (the first woman to publically accuse Nassar of sexual assault) was the last woman to speak at the sentencing. She's a loving hero. e: updating with better video that a) doesn't stutter and b) ends with her standing ovation https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wehpkiflXMs GobiasIndustries fucked around with this message at 08:51 on Jan 25, 2018 |
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Jan 25, 2018 08:21
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Henchman of Santa posted:Looks like she didn't put any blame on herself at all
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Jan 25, 2018 13:24
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GobiasIndustries posted:Rachael Denhollander (the first woman to publically accuse Nassar of sexual assault) was the last woman to speak at the sentencing. She's a loving hero. I watched that entire video. She's 100% right in everything she said. Not through any fault of her own, it still doesn't address the problems in USA Gymnastics or the worldwide problems of the sport. The entire sport is based on exploiting young girls to (and beyond) their breaking points and I have no idea how to fix it. If you set an Olympic age minimum of 20 years old, you're still "farming" them out to years of horrific training so that when they reach that age, they're already like the 3-year-old horses that run the Triple Crown races: their entire lives have been spent to prepare them for a few weeks of life-altering competition which can lead to horrific results. Everything about women's Olympic-level gymnastics has always seemed incredibly exploitative and creepy to me to the point that even when USA women win, I always wondered "what hells did they go through to get to that point?" I guess we know now. But hey, they sure boosted that medal count in the most televised events, so P&G and NBC made their money back. Burn everything.
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Jan 25, 2018 13:45
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skaboomizzy posted:I watched that entire video. And, though gymnastics is probably the worst offender in this regard, it is far from the only sport that suffers from those problems. I can't have been the only one that has been waiting for the other shoe to drop in some other sport. There was a story on HBO Real Sports last year about the business of youth sports and how entire towns are pumping money intro building huge complexes with dozens of fields/courts/playing surfaces where they host gigantic tournaments that parents pay thousands of dollars for their kids to play in. It just makes my skin crawl. There is more money and power in youth sports now than there ever has been, and with that comes the incentive to cover up anything that might cost you your money/power. Found that full segment: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9ATwFkYpVys
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Jan 25, 2018 14:19
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I nominate John Geddart, (now former) US Gymnastics coach, to be next up against the wall. I mentioned yesterday how Dominique Moceanu tweeted out a screen shot of his email, accusing her of stabbing gymnastics in the back after everything the sport did for her. Well now it seems that former gymnast and Larry Nassar victim Lindsey Lemke, who spoke out about John Geddart's physical and emotional abuse in addition to knowing about Nassar, was threatened by Geddart after her impact statement. Wow. 
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Jan 25, 2018 14:35
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If you read that long ESPN piece, Geddart was so emotionally abusive that it just made Nassar’s life easier because he was trustworthy in comparison
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Jan 25, 2018 14:38
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There's a lot of people who badly, badly need to go to prison as a result of this whole thing.
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Jan 25, 2018 14:38
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PT6A posted:There's a lot of people who badly, badly need to go to prison as a result of this whole thing. Here’s a handy list including several of them: http://on.freep.com/2rColmz
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Jan 25, 2018 14:56
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It's almost at the point where all young athletes need an independent 'chaperone' who monitors all aspects of their training/health to make sure they aren't overworked, bullied, or abused. Because without wishing to be rude, their parents clearly aren't doing that. Naturally there would be a ton of problems with that in practice, but these people just need a single person in their lives that's looking out for their welfare above their performance.
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Jan 25, 2018 14:57
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The front page of today's Detroit Free Press: That GMC ad 
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Jan 25, 2018 14:59
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jabby posted:It's almost at the point where all young athletes need an independent 'chaperone' who monitors all aspects of their training/health to make sure they aren't overworked, bullied, or abused. Because without wishing to be rude, their parents clearly aren't doing that. It wouldn't be a perfect system but it would sure be a gently caress sight better than what we've got right now. Make sure it's someone from outside the local community, though...
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Jan 25, 2018 15:02
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I'm rather horrified by how some visits were chaperoned and still they were assured it was all legitimate medicine.
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Jan 25, 2018 15:23
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I'm the kind who will blab about anything in the news but I have a hard time coming up with words about sick and depraved this story is. These are some of the most powerful institutions in American society and they're corrupt to the core.
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Jan 25, 2018 15:35
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jabby posted:It's almost at the point where all young athletes need an independent 'chaperone' who monitors all aspects of their training/health to make sure they aren't overworked, bullied, or abused. Because without wishing to be rude, their parents clearly aren't doing that. In a lot of cases, the parents were banned from being at the location of the assaults (Karolyi ranch, tournament hotels). And then yeah, in others, Nassar just did it even with them right there and used his body to block their view and their poor kid didn't know what to do, because, well, they were kids.
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Jan 25, 2018 15:53
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tetrapyloctomy posted:I'm rather horrified by how some visits were chaperoned and still they were assured it was all legitimate medicine. Even now people are pretty trusting of doctors. It doesn't surprise me that with a convincing enough manner he could brazen out sexual assault as 'internal myofascial release' or something of that nature even if he was caught in the act. As long as you give people a tiny amount of doubt there's always going to be massive psychological resistance to making accusations, because people are terrified of being wrong.
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Jan 25, 2018 16:01
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jabby posted:Even now people are pretty trusting of doctors. It doesn't surprise me that with a convincing enough manner he could brazen out sexual assault as 'internal myofascial release' or something of that nature even if he was caught in the act. As long as you give people a tiny amount of doubt there's always going to be massive psychological resistance to making accusations, because people are terrified of being wrong. He cultivated a persona as an advocate for the gymnasts. quote:Nassar said he was able to earn the trust of the Karolyis back through hard work and employing the same attitude he’d held since he started his work— “Gymnast first, gymnast first, gymnast first. Nothing gets in the way of gymnast first.” https://deadspin.com/in-one-interview-larry-nassar-laid-out-exactly-how-he-1794176276 Then he characterized the actual abuse as medical treatment: quote:Time and again, over years of unfettered abuse, he would subject the girls he was meant to be helping to degrading physical examinations he described in a shameless distortion of medical terminology as “intra-vaginal treatment”. Predatory, perverted and bogus: this was the doctor from hell. http://www.telegraph.co.uk/women/life/us-gymnastics-sex-abuse-scandal-shows-comes-sport-one-thing/ edit: the medicalization of sex has a really bizarre history (see, e.g., https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/all-about-sex/201303/hysteria-and-the-strange-history-vibrators ) Hieronymous Alloy fucked around with this message at 16:12 on Jan 25, 2018 |
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Jan 25, 2018 16:06
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https://mobile.twitter.com/TODAYshow/status/956503394394542081 burn down the entire institution, comrades
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Jan 25, 2018 16:08
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jabby posted:It's almost at the point where all young athletes need an independent 'chaperone' who monitors all aspects of their training/health to make sure they aren't overworked, bullied, or abused. Because without wishing to be rude, their parents clearly aren't doing that. IDK. The thing is nobody 'forces' athletes do anything. In the end, it's the competitive drive of the people doing it and the essential zero-sum nature of the endeavor; it's old Mike Tyson line about why he was out running at 4:30 am: "Because I know that while I train, my opponent is still sleeping.” Trainers/coaches, at best, help draw out that last ounce of will-power. You can always say not today... you just don't want to do so. And for that reason, I've literally ran until I threw up. But, FWIW, there are always medical professionals around at higher levels. And I 'think' they are mandatory reporters re abuse.
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Jan 25, 2018 16:23
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gaj70 posted:IDK. The thing is nobody 'forces' athletes do anything. Literally their parents do. If you get into any high enough level youth sport, you will find miserable kids and insane parents.
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Jan 25, 2018 16:31
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gaj70 posted:IDK. The thing is nobody 'forces' athletes do anything. In the end, it's the competitive drive of the people doing it and the essential zero-sum nature of the endeavor; it's old Mike Tyson line about why he was out running at 4:30 am: "Because I know that while I train, my opponent is still sleeping.” Trainers/coaches, at best, help draw out that last ounce of will-power. You can always say not today... you just don't want to do so. And for that reason, I've literally ran until I threw up. unless of course they themselves are proud members of the medical profession who are doing the abuse which is depressingly commonplace
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Jan 25, 2018 16:35
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gaj70 posted:IDK. The thing is nobody 'forces' athletes do anything. In the end, it's the competitive drive of the people doing it and the essential zero-sum nature of the endeavor; it's old Mike Tyson line about why he was out running at 4:30 am: "Because I know that while I train, my opponent is still sleeping.” Trainers/coaches, at best, help draw out that last ounce of will-power. You can always say not today... you just don't want to do so. And for that reason, I've literally ran until I threw up. Perhaps that attitude does not sprint forth fully formed from the ether and indelibly implant itself in the mind of a random baby at the moment of its birth?
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Jan 25, 2018 16:37
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stone cold posted:unless of course they themselves are proud members of the medical profession who are doing the abuse I thought we've moved on to the Karolyi's. The complaints there seem mostly around harsh training methods / bullying (honest question: is there evidence they knew of the sexual abuse and didn't say anything?) But... I'd love to widen the list of mandatory reporters. One obvious choice would the university ADs and university sexual-assault administrators.
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Jan 25, 2018 16:52
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gaj70 posted:I thought we've moved on to the Karolyi's. The complaints there seem mostly around harsh training methods / bullying (honest question: is there evidence they knew of the sexual abuse and didn't say anything?) The University is already in deep poo poo because several of the victims reported it to multiple University personnel and got handwaved away.
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Jan 25, 2018 16:54
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OwlFancier posted:Perhaps that attitude does not sprint forth fully formed from the ether and indelibly implant itself in the mind of a random baby at the moment of its birth? No idea. What does the science say? FWIW, I think parent should push their kids a bit. As a rough analogy, every teacher I recall as being "great" challenged me.
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Jan 25, 2018 17:00
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gaj70 posted:I thought we've moved on to the Karolyi's. The complaints there seem mostly around harsh training methods / bullying (honest question: is there evidence they knew of the sexual abuse and didn't say anything?) You think the Karolyis didn't know what was going on for a decade and a half at the camp they ran? They just didn't care.
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Jan 25, 2018 17:00
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gaj70 posted:No idea. What does the science say? a cool post to make in the the most horrific sexual abuse in sports history thread
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Jan 25, 2018 17:01
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mastershakeman posted:You think the Karolyis didn't know what was going on for a decade and a half at the camp they ran? They just didn't care. That answer doesn't sound like there is evidence. Am I misinterpreting?
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Jan 25, 2018 17:01
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jabby posted:It's almost at the point where all young athletes need an independent 'chaperone' who monitors all aspects of their training/health to make sure they aren't overworked, bullied, or abused. Because without wishing to be rude, their parents clearly aren't doing that. to bring in an unrelated (but related) case, eliza dushku had a handler/chaperone during the filming of true lies but that didn't keep a stunt coordinator from raping her. it's not gonna go away until we destroy the structures that allowed the creeps to fester in the first place and cultivated them after
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Jan 25, 2018 17:02
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gaj70 posted:I thought we've moved on to the Karolyi's. The complaints there seem mostly around harsh training methods / bullying (honest question: is there evidence they knew of the sexual abuse and didn't say anything?) Just in the five seconds of googling I did to research exactly how Nassar characterized his "treatments," I found multiple references by Nassar to "falling outs" he had with the Karolyi's over "complaints."
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Jan 25, 2018 17:03
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gaj70 posted:That answer doesn't sound like there is evidence. Am I misinterpreting? are you loving kidding me
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Jan 25, 2018 17:04
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gaj70 posted:That answer doesn't sound like there is evidence. Am I misinterpreting? why is pretty much every post you made in this thread defensive towards the serial rapist or his enablers?
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Jan 25, 2018 17:05
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gaj70 posted:No idea. What does the science say? I mean I'm going to take a wild guess and say that science generally says that complex social behaviour is heavily socialized... You are not born knowing how to behave in society.
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Jan 25, 2018 17:08
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Hieronymous Alloy posted:Then he characterized the actual abuse as medical treatment: A slightly unusual therapy exists called internal myofascial release that involves the patient using their fingers or a special probe inside the vagina or rectum to apply pressure to the pelvic floor muscles. It's been at least somewhat scientifically investigated as a treatment for chronic pelvic pain, and if you Google it (maybe not at work) you can find stuff of varying legitimacy talking about the pros and cons, how to perform it etc. Obviously it has nothing to do with what he was doing, but it's almost certainly involved in his cover story and shows how effective even a flimsy excuse can be at preventing people reporting abuse.
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Jan 25, 2018 17:17
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jabby posted:A slightly unusual therapy exists called internal myofascial release that involves the patient using their fingers or a special probe inside the vagina or rectum to apply pressure to the pelvic floor muscles. It's been at least somewhat scientifically investigated as a treatment for chronic pelvic pain, and if you Google it (maybe not at work) you can find stuff of varying legitimacy talking about the pros and cons, how to perform it etc. well also combine that with the fact that a. people aren’t inclined to listen to women anyways and b. people certainly aren’t inclined to listen to women over a male doctor
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Jan 25, 2018 17:20
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jabby posted:It's almost at the point where all young athletes need an independent 'chaperone' who monitors all aspects of their training/health to make sure they aren't overworked, bullied, or abused. Because without wishing to be rude, their parents clearly aren't doing that. I don't really see how position wouldn't be just as liable to be exploited as any other trusted authority figure. Like Hieronymous Alloy mentioned, Nassar was regarded as these childrens' advocate. You really need to have people with pre-existing relationships outside these institutions being more heavily involved. And, sadly, many children don't actually have trustworthy relationships in their family lives.
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Jan 25, 2018 17:22
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R. Guyovich posted:to bring in an unrelated (but related) case, eliza dushku had a handler/chaperone during the filming of true lies but that didn't keep a stunt coordinator from raping her. it's not gonna go away until we destroy the structures that allowed the creeps to fester in the first place and cultivated them after In the Penn State case, the mandatory reporters who buried the case (Curley and Schultz) were sentenced to like 3 months in prison/turned state witness. Paterno somehow wasn't a mandatory reporter in Pennsylvania at the time, since he was a coach, so he his only duty was to report it to the AD (Curley) even if Paterno arguably had more actual power over matters because he essentially was Penn State athletics at that point.
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Jan 25, 2018 17:23
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Flip Yr Wig posted:I don't really see how position wouldn't be just as liable to be exploited as any other trusted authority figure. Like Hieronymous Alloy mentioned, Nassar was regarded as these childrens' advocate. You really need to have people with pre-existing relationships outside these institutions being more heavily involved. You could do a lot to help that by putting them materially at odds with the other people that their charges are going to encounter, the whole sport community seems really grossly incestuous and someone who has a material reason not to be involved or have an affinity for the rest of the sporting world might help, that way the theoretically decent sport people keep an eye on the chaperone and the chaperone keeps an eye on the sport people. Rather than relying on this lousy system where everyone is mates with everyone else and is willing to cover for everyone else because they all want to be part of this big lovely sporting organization. Something like rigorous financial and social insulation from the sporting organization. The chaperone would need background checks to make sure they have no relatives or whatever involved with it and credit/bank checks to make sure they're not taking money from them. It's not much but that introduction of people who have no interest in getting involved with the system could help. That or as said just burn the whole loving thing down it'd be no big loss. OwlFancier fucked around with this message at 17:30 on Jan 25, 2018 |
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Jan 25, 2018 17:27
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gaj70 posted:That answer doesn't sound like there is evidence. Am I misinterpreting? Either they knew and covered it up, or they had a doctor under their employ for like a decade and did zero oversight in order to make sure there was no abuse. Either way, they failed to do their job of protecting the children in their care. edit: On the mandatory reporting at Penn State, I still never understood why something like that needs to go up the chain. Why was anyone even going to other coaches or the AD? Call the police direct!
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Jan 25, 2018 17:33
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