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Pollyanna posted:As far as I can tell, high software dev wages are a US-only thing. I was just prepared to post how in Germany in 1997 some developers were making 15,000 DM (Deutschland Marks) per month. Enormous salary. But then I realized that it essentially comes to 180,000 DM per year, which comes to approx 90,000 Euro per year. And those people that were making that much were relatively rare. Yeah, high wages is an US-only thing.
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Jan 24, 2018 23:59
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At least in the EU I can expect to live well on an average market salary, instead of possibly losing everything and feeling like I should hoard as much as possible.
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Jan 25, 2018 00:02
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Hughlander posted:One thing that got skipped in this discussion is basically that they’re cutting/changing what people (at least that one developer.) sees as a perk or benefit of the business. Why are they doing this? There could be two reasons. 1) They’re doing it for cost savings, in which case they’ve decided that a few bucks a week is worth the productivity of their employees. Or 2) That they into showing control and know better than you. That you can’t be trusted with sugary drinks. Is there a 3? Providing health insurance is expensive, more so with an employee with diabetes. This is a cost cutting measure but not the one you think it is, and not necessarily a bad one.
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Jan 25, 2018 04:19
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 Yeah, the company that would sell your blood to boost quarterly profits is really considering the 30 year outlook on health insurance.
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Jan 25, 2018 04:22
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JawnV6 posted:
The actuaries at the place they're getting the insurance from are, and they're offering the employer a discount to make what can be trivially spun as a well intentioned gesture. I don't pretend for a second that my company actually cares about my well being, but they definitely take a healthy slant towards my free food choices.
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Jan 25, 2018 04:24
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I guess 3) is "both cost-cutting and paternalism"
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Jan 25, 2018 04:50
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Devs make decent money in Norway, I started on ~70 000 USD with no experience and two years education in coding.
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Jan 25, 2018 06:45
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I did it. I finally did it. Due to a typo, my update query executed without its where clause. (5000 rows affected) 
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Jan 25, 2018 07:41
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meatbag posted:Devs make decent money in Norway, I started on ~70 000 USD with no experience and two years education in coding. Is that not also due to the tax system? My friend is a developer in Denmark and earns probably double what I do if we both converted to USD, but tax eats a more significant proportion of his salary (Paging Chamook) or the UK is just crap with salaries. 11 years in and i'm on $77,000 equivalent, with a review & promotion taking me to $86,000. It probably looks terrible compared to Norway, Germany, USA. But according to the IFS (https://www.ifs.org.uk/wheredoyoufitin/); "you have a higher income than around 82% of the population - equivalent to about 52.0 million individuals." Oh and I'm probably the highest paid developer in my org. Cancelbot fucked around with this message at 09:51 on Jan 25, 2018 |
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Jan 25, 2018 09:35
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I think Norway pays more than Denmark, but everything there is also _super_ expensive. A lot of it is just dependent on where you live because Sweden pays a lot less than here. But either way, living under that EU socialism :v is better than the hellscape of the US just for healthcare alone, and I wouldn't trade it for your ridiculous salaries at all.
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Jan 25, 2018 09:54
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Yeah, direct money comparisons probably aren't all that useful. But development is pretty lucrative in Norway compared to other careers, tons of demand and insufficient supply. I have friends who recruit developers, and they could probably hire twice as many as the currently do if there was anyone to employ.
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Jan 25, 2018 11:06
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meatbag posted:Yeah, direct money comparisons probably aren't all that useful. But development is pretty lucrative in Norway compared to other careers, tons of demand and insufficient supply. Good to know for when the US inevitably collapses.
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Jan 25, 2018 14:08
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Pollyanna posted:Good to know for when the US inevitably collapses. There will be no collapse, just a continuation of the decline that has been ongoing for some three decades already.
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Jan 25, 2018 14:53
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Keetron posted:There will be no collapse, just a continuation of the decline that has been ongoing for some three decades already. I think you need to watch the speech in Davos where El Trumpo tells everyone how great we are and we're winning Comrade.
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Jan 25, 2018 15:08
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Pollyanna posted:Good to know for when the US inevitably collapses. LOL. There's not a place on this planet that would be a safe-haven if the US fell in any meaningful way. The biggest problem would be who's going to be the military top dog (world policeman)? I have some guesses as to the likely volunteers, and it ain't pretty.
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Jan 25, 2018 17:12
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B-Nasty posted:LOL. Try not to take Polly seriously, she just likes to agitate for communist revolution because she's unhappy with the current state of her career.
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Jan 25, 2018 17:18
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Chamook posted:I think Norway pays more than Denmark, but everything there is also _super_ expensive. A lot of it is just dependent on where you live because Sweden pays a lot less than here. But either way, living under that EU socialism :v is better than the hellscape of the US just for healthcare alone, and I wouldn't trade it for your ridiculous salaries at all. If you are a high paid dev in the US you have good health insurance. Even with a 5k deductible and 10k maximum out of pocket you still come out ahead of anything you can make in Europe. I say this as a foreigner working in the US. After 1 year of savings as a single earner I was able to accumulate more wealth than my wife and i had in our last year of being totally debt free in my home country. Tell yourself whatever you want to not move here and work. But don’t poo poo on the obviously sweet deal that’s going on in the US
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Jan 25, 2018 17:51
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Actually, they're correct - the US is, in fact, a blasted hellscape, and not a "Sweet Deal" I can see where you could get that wrong though e: 
ChickenWing fucked around with this message at 18:36 on Jan 25, 2018 |
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Jan 25, 2018 18:29
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Skandranon posted:Try not to take Polly seriously, she just likes to agitate for communist revolution because she's unhappy with the current state of her career. Career satisfaction isn't causing me any counterrevolutionary thoughts, comrade.
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Jan 25, 2018 18:37
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Keetron posted:General question. You may have more luck if you look at low-error-tolerance areas like aviation and aerospace. They tend to have a much higher desire for quality and corresponding appreciation for automated testing than projects in other fields in my experience.
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Jan 25, 2018 19:13
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Janitor Prime posted:If you are a high paid dev in the US you have good health insurance. Even with a 5k deductible and 10k maximum out of pocket you still come out ahead of anything you can make in Europe. I say this as a foreigner working in the US. After 1 year of savings as a single earner I was able to accumulate more wealth than my wife and i had in our last year of being totally debt free in my home country. This assumes any health complications are handled within a time frame that doesn't cause a company to let you go causing you a loss in coverage. What you call a "sweet deal" is really a gamble for a lot of people. Munkeymon posted:Career satisfaction isn't causing me any counterrevolutionary thoughts, comrade. same
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Jan 25, 2018 19:17
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As my first week as a Jr Dev comes to a close I am comforted by the knowledge that everyone, including me, has no idea what the gently caress they're doing. Namaste.
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Jan 25, 2018 19:19
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Ape Fist posted:As my first week as a Jr Dev comes to a close I am comforted by the knowledge that everyone, including me, has no idea what the gently caress they're doing. Namaste. Clutch that comfort close in the darkest times, for it is the Eternal Truth of development. Namaste, friend
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Jan 25, 2018 19:28
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Dr. Poz posted:This assumes any health complications are handled within a time frame that doesn't cause a company to let you go causing you a loss in coverage. What you call a "sweet deal" is really a gamble for a lot of people. You're right, that's just a wash since it's the same in my home country so I don't have much to lose in that case.
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Jan 25, 2018 19:29
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Ape Fist posted:As my first week as a Jr Dev comes to a close I am comforted by the knowledge that everyone, including me, has no idea what the gently caress they're doing. Namaste. One of us. One of us. I hope you learned the important stuff: how and where is the caffeine is administered.
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Jan 25, 2018 19:35
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Janitor Prime posted:You're right, that's just a wash since it's the same in my home country so I don't have much to lose in that case. Switzerland? That's the only country I can think of that just requires people to buy insurance.
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Jan 25, 2018 19:56
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Munkeymon posted:Switzerland? That's the only country I can think of that just requires people to buy insurance. The Netherlands have mandatory health insurance, to the point that if you don't buy insurance you owe backpay for insurance you did not have. However, getting insured after a period of non-insurance will get you insured from the day you had no insurance as well. If you fall ill when you are uninsured, you are still covered by the company that will insure you after the period of non-insurance. Important: you cannot be denied basic coverage by an insurance company. So basically, everyone has health insurance and even if you don't, you still have health insurance it is just that you are not with a specific company yet. Thanks to all this, healthcare cost is low for everyone as everyone is putting money in the pool.
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Jan 25, 2018 20:14
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Munkeymon posted:Switzerland? That's the only country I can think of that just requires people to buy insurance. lol Mexico
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Jan 25, 2018 20:18
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Fun code in the developers thread.code:code:Other thing that happened to me this week: Dingus: I made a PR Me: will do a review ... Me: do not commit code that is commented out unless you include an explanation why it is commented out Dingus: changed it next day. Dingus: I made a PR Me (after review): what did we discussed about committing commented out code? Also, you did not clean up unused imports. Dingus: I was in a hurry and did not check properly. next day (today) Dingus: I made a PR Me: you know, if I find any warning when I do a code analysis and it turns up unused imports, I will straight up decline this PR Dingus: why are you so mean? Me: I gave notice and will not be here in a few days
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Jan 25, 2018 20:24
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Keetron posted:Dingus: why are you so mean? solid
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Jan 25, 2018 20:39
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Janitor Prime posted:lol Mexico Oh  IDK why I thought you were from Europe
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Jan 25, 2018 20:43
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Keetron posted:Fun code in the developers thread. Dingus doesn’t give a poo poo and just wants to get their work done as soon as possible for kudos or to just gently caress off ASAP, or is genuinely too dumb or scatterbrained to realize what they’re doing.
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Jan 25, 2018 20:49
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Pollyanna posted:Dingus doesn’t give a poo poo and just wants to get their work done as soon as possible for kudos or to just gently caress off ASAP, or is genuinely too dumb or scatterbrained to realize what they’re doing. Dingus might just be forgetful or be rushing. It happens. Dingus fully deserves his upcoming declined PR though 
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Jan 25, 2018 21:03
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I just got done marking a junior devs PR as needs work for the 4th time in a week. Everybody keeps talking about how it's the most comments they've ever seen on a PR (40).
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Jan 25, 2018 21:15
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ChickenWing posted:Dingus might just be forgetful or be rushing. It happens. I have Eclipse set to automatically remove unused imports on save, so every file I touch gets cleaned up. That's what technology is for, doing the poo poo that is too easy for humans to forget or be lazy about.
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Jan 25, 2018 21:23
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If that’s 4 swings and misses, isn’t it about time to pair it rather than keep them flailing?
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Jan 25, 2018 21:23
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Maluco Marinero posted:If that’s 4 swings and misses, isn’t it about time to pair it rather than keep them flailing? I agree. Junior engineers aren’t just set and forget.
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Jan 25, 2018 22:00
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Hargrimm posted:I have Eclipse set to automatically remove unused imports on save, so every file I touch gets cleaned up. That's what technology is for, doing the poo poo that is too easy for humans to forget or be lazy about. Same with intellij I had it set to autoformat for a while but that caused some disgusting PRs so I just do that selectively now
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Jan 25, 2018 22:03
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I'm one of 2 people in my office using VSCode and I will DIE before I change.
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Jan 26, 2018 00:19
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Hargrimm posted:I have Eclipse set to automatically remove unused imports on save, so every file I touch gets cleaned up. That's what technology is for, doing the poo poo that is too easy for humans to forget or be lazy about. What's the setting for this?
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Jan 26, 2018 01:55
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