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JBP posted:So what am I meant to do about Kroq-Gar as the tomb kings? Grab Liche Priests with the Lore of Nekehara and keep roiding your skeletons up with AP damage.
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Jan 26, 2018 03:56
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JBP posted:So what am I meant to do about Kroq-Gar as the tomb kings? As Arkhan I signed a non-aggression pact with him and we're trading and fighting Clan Mors together. Actually only he's fighting Queek, as I don't border the rats, I am only in it for the relation bonus.
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Jan 26, 2018 03:57
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Rookersh posted:I think the bigger problems is the TK campaign is uh, not set up well. Yeah, the difficulty with Setra isn't the TK army. It is that you start at war with multiple factions and are surrounded by more that hate you and will declare on your quickly. All the while you are hard limited to 1 stack.
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Jan 26, 2018 04:02
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Been itching to play some TK but it sounds like it might be best to wait for a patch or two.
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Jan 26, 2018 04:04
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drat Dirty Ape posted:Been itching to play some TK but it sounds like it might be best to wait for a patch or two. They're completely fine, at least in the campaign. I'm pretty sure that people who are having a hard time just aren't taking advantage of their roster.
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Jan 26, 2018 04:06
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I just swarmed him with four stacks. Also I just made Settra a vanguard and charge bonus item lmao. Whoever complained that he can't vanguard with the chariots, there's an item for that.
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Jan 26, 2018 04:07
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They have weak troops and are tough at the start but collecting books is more chaosy than chaos since you just send armies across the earth to burn all in their path and once you get you book, you ride home and forget that you ever went to that region.
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Jan 26, 2018 04:08
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turn off the TV posted:They're completely fine, at least in the campaign. I'm pretty sure that people who are having a hard time just aren't taking advantage of their roster. the very start is extremely a slog. the second you get your first ushabti building out, everything changes in a huge way
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Jan 26, 2018 04:10
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it's cool how the basic skels get beat up by basic skaven. some real cool necromancy you got there...not!
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Jan 26, 2018 04:37
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fighting delves as khatep was fine once I got some chariots, though I wince at the thought of having to fight any armored troops or good cav with TK t2 units lore of nehekara seems pretty mediocre minus dessication which I overcasted at every opportunity. that's a spicy debuff for sure e: it is pretty funny how a dreadlord will smack down anything you throw at it prior to t3 except your starting hierotitan Smith Comma John fucked around with this message at 04:43 on Jan 26, 2018 |
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Jan 26, 2018 04:40
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arkhan the blacks basic undead additions really do help. I've never seen undead dog get this much work.
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Jan 26, 2018 04:40
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Yeah, playing more with the campaign, it does seem like *something* that allows limited recruitment of fun units in the extremely early game would help. I do still generally progress and win fights, but I really am doing it with nothing but 2 flavors of melee skeletons+beatstick lords and heroes sometimes. Any number of things could improve this, but even just a bit more access to low tier units from the main settlement structure itself or something would be nice. Move Warriors to Barracks T1 and Tomb Guard (swords) to T2 maybe? Hero recruitment capacity seems crazy valuable because no structure is required to recruit the hero, but the techs/skills that add unit capacity probably can't be used in the early game. Maybe this is a factor of Khalida/Khatep both needing to immediately take offensive action against larger settlements? Maybe I'm too agressive and shouldn't be trying to take major settlements that early? BurlapNapkin fucked around with this message at 04:48 on Jan 26, 2018 |
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Jan 26, 2018 04:42
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Maybe 1 or 2 extra starting units. iirc every faction gets 3 additional units in Mortal Empires except for the Tomb Kings. One of the first things I checked was to see if their bonus units were different in ME, but nope
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Jan 26, 2018 04:44
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The biggest problem is this is not a traditional army and fights closer to bretonia where your linemen are going to die, might hold a line, probably won't get kills, and it is all about utilizing your second tier of units. Your light skirmishers and archers are your damage. You can not rely on your skeleton infantry to do anything more than hold the line or delay the enemy. Even the good ones. Even the stats on the ubshati are not great except for bows.
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Jan 26, 2018 04:45
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Third World Reggin posted:The biggest problem is this is not a traditional army and fights closer to bretonia where your linemen are going to die, might hold a line, probably won't get kills, and it is all about utilizing your second tier of units. The problem I run into is that when all I have is 2 nehekara warriors, 4 archers, 2 chariots and a pile of worthless garbage those second tier units don't really get to do much work.
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Jan 26, 2018 04:49
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NeurosisHead posted:The problem I run into is that when all I have is 2 nehekara warriors, 4 archers, 2 chariots and a pile of worthless garbage those second tier units don't really get to do much work. You need to get more archers.
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Jan 26, 2018 04:57
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I kind of enjoyed one fight early where I had to make my dudes work super hard and all the wins felt clutch. You need to throw waves at things, but if you lose and your lord dies you've hosed yourself which isn't great considering you need to mob things.
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Jan 26, 2018 05:03
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Also against lizards ushabti are extremely underwhelming
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Jan 26, 2018 05:04
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JBP posted:I kind of enjoyed one fight early where I had to make my dudes work super hard and all the wins felt clutch. You need to throw waves at things, but if you lose and your lord dies you've hosed yourself which isn't great considering you need to mob things. Good thing your idiot skeletons are totally disposable. E:  Turn 10, Top Knotz have been destroyed by the unstoppable strategy of turn off the TV posted:Spam more archers and use cat to kill everything. turn off the TV posted:You need to get more archers. turn off the TV posted:Get archers, spam archers. turn off the TV fucked around with this message at 05:18 on Jan 26, 2018 |
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Jan 26, 2018 05:06
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Making the Lore of Nehekhara buff spells AoE (or at least AoE when overcast like most other lores) would be nice
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Jan 26, 2018 05:16
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Grumio posted:Making the Lore of Nehekhara buff spells AoE (or at least AoE when overcast like most other lores) would be nice I honestly have no idea why this isn't the case for at least some of the spells. As it stands it's a lore built around buffing that is outdone by all the lores with AOE buffs that still get other good spells.
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Jan 26, 2018 05:19
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If TK Skeletons are seriously worse than VC Skeletons that needs to be rectified asap. Its not like pumping up TK Skeletons to that level would make them any less useless chaff but then maybe they could successfully fight Skaven and Empire Spearmen for long enough to pound them into the dirt with Ushabti/Warsphinx/Hierotitan/Tomb Scorpion/Settra.
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Jan 26, 2018 05:23
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turn off the TV posted:Good thing your idiot skeletons are totally disposable. Yeah but gently caress adding to the gunline strategy of WH2 in general. I'm bad with chariots but I'd like to see some better variants at higher tiers, and having yet another faction built around tarpitting with line infantry and killing with archers sucks.
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Jan 26, 2018 05:33
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Solutions: Lore of Nehekara has each spell get a greatly reduced aura effect as a passive. Casting that particular spell gives you an AoE buff around the target as well as pumping the casters aura effectiveness on par with the spell. So now all those spells affect a lot more units. Unlocking each dynasty gives basic skeletons +5 leadership, melee defense and magic resistance. Basic skeleton units can be built beyond your recruitment capacity in exchange for - 10 public order that turn. However you cannot summon more if you are in negative public order. Friendly army present in a territory gives that settlement +1 unit of basic skeletons for every positive public order.
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Jan 26, 2018 05:39
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AnEdgelord posted:If TK Skeletons are seriously worse than VC Skeletons that needs to be rectified asap. Its not like pumping up TK Skeletons to that level would make them any less useless chaff but then maybe they could successfully fight Skaven and Empire Spearmen for long enough to pound them into the dirt with Ushabti/Warsphinx/Hierotitan/Tomb Scorpion/Settra. The two aren't really comparable, TK skeletons fill the same role as peasants and zombies. Ravenfood posted:Yeah but gently caress adding to the gunline strategy of WH2 in general. I'm bad with chariots but I'd like to see some better variants at higher tiers, and having yet another faction built around tarpitting with line infantry and killing with archers sucks. You're in luck, because the rest of the Tomb Kings roster is full of giant gently caress off monsters. All of my battles against Mazdamundi in my Khalida save have turned into massive clusterfuck moshpits of giant snakes, dinosaurs and scorpions.
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Jan 26, 2018 05:40
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turn off the TV posted:No, until this patch all of the difficulties were buggy in one way or another, so that the harder difficulties were significantly easier than easy. My bad, I played very hard on the strategic layer and normal on the tactical layer for that very reason! I should have specified. I've also up until a week ago only played hard and I still had the same problem. I find every new campaign really interesting and fun for maybe 20-30 turns and then it just degenerates. Edit: Tomb Kings have the additional problem that their T1 units are garbage and the only reason you can do anything at all is your single overpowered construct. I think this is why Khalida has one of the best starts, her constructs aren't as good and she makes T1 archers usable. KPC_Mammon fucked around with this message at 05:46 on Jan 26, 2018 |
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Jan 26, 2018 05:42
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Won my Khalida ME game, now doing a Wurrzag game to try fighting against the Tomb Kings. One thing seems very important: if you're going to conquer the Tomb Kings, kill them early. They're not hard to roll over shortly after the game starts, but if given the chance to build up they become much harder targets - they're more extreme about this than any other race in my experience. Khatep's going completely batshit in Naggarond and Ulthuan and boy am I not looking forward to taking him on.
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Jan 26, 2018 05:45
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Tomb kings and beast men. Best of friends.
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Jan 26, 2018 05:50
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KPC_Mammon posted:My bad, I played very hard on the strategic layer and normal on the tactical layer for that very reason! I should have specified. I've also up until a week ago only played hard and I still had the same problem. According to their patch notes even normal had problems, at least on the campaign map it was using the wrong personality settings. Just complete  .But yeah, the game has a problem with snowballing. At least in my Khalida Vortex campaign it's always a shitshow whenever the Lizardmen show up with a bunch of Temple Guard, because as far as I can tell there just isn't a good hard counter to them in the TK army.
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Jan 26, 2018 05:52
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turn off the TV posted:According to their patch notes even normal had problems, at least on the campaign map it was using the wrong personality settings. Just complete Haven't tried them yet (and also haven't fought lizards), but think someone was saying scorpions are fairly good at taking them on - or other halberd infantry for that matter. Their attacks fling infantry around so much, and they have so much invulnerable time from their burrowing and the like, that infantry just gets wrecked since they can't get hits in.
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Jan 26, 2018 06:03
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turn off the TV posted:The two aren't really comparable, TK skeletons fill the same role as peasants and zombies. VC skellies fill the same role as peasants and zombies too.
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Jan 26, 2018 06:18
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turn off the TV posted:But yeah, the game has a problem with snowballing. At least in my Khalida Vortex campaign it's always a shitshow whenever the Lizardmen show up with a bunch of Temple Guard, because as far as I can tell there just isn't a good hard counter to them in the TK army. Ushabti Shoota Boyz?
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Jan 26, 2018 06:19
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Ravenfood posted:Yeah but gently caress adding to the gunline strategy of WH2 in general. I'm bad with chariots but I'd like to see some better variants at higher tiers, and having yet another faction built around tarpitting with line infantry and killing with archers sucks. That's like... the underlying gameplay of WHFB in general though
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Jan 26, 2018 06:21
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Ravenfood posted:Yeah but gently caress adding to the gunline strategy of WH2 in general. I'm bad with chariots but I'd like to see some better variants at higher tiers, and having yet another faction built around tarpitting with line infantry and killing with archers sucks. After hearing about the 12 model chariot units I initially hoped that the faction would support actual bronze age Egyptian style warfare with a heavy focus on chariots. I get that mirroring the tabletop's "generally underwhelming and bad" niche is valid too but I would really like to play a bronze age total war. Skeleman bronze age total war would be even better.
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Jan 26, 2018 06:27
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I've gotten 200+ kills with chariots on the reg. You have an anvil, and you smash a weak part of their line and destroy it, or smash their ranged units, or smash some isolated unit. You don't run them straight into braced infantry to get surrounded and bogged down. I've got 8 in Settra's stack and zero ranged units. Where they really suck is sieges, tho. Oi oi oi oi oi. e: I want an ushabti/ chariot army for him, and then I noticed that there's a special lord you can get that gets a +8 MA for ushabti and now that will forever haunt me, until I get enough of them to have two stacks of them. Tiler Kiwi fucked around with this message at 06:36 on Jan 26, 2018 |
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Jan 26, 2018 06:33
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Arglebargle III posted:VC skellies fill the same role as peasants and zombies too. Ehh kind of not as much. TK skeletons are free and don't need recruitment buildings. They're basically tier 0, with archers being T1.
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Jan 26, 2018 06:34
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Honestly, the TK lords are kind of punk rear end bitches. I was expecting them to be like SFO vampires or something.
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Jan 26, 2018 06:53
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yeah early game VC your lords are insane at least, TK don't really get an interesting anvil for a while; especially if you're bad at chariot micro
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Jan 26, 2018 06:56
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It would be nice if you didn't need the building related to a unit to be able to build it, allowing any capacity increases to be immediately put to use. Get a lord that enables +2 ushabti? you can recruit them now, level your necrotech up high enough? you get 1 hierotitan available. If you don't have the building related to it, you can only recruit it from the global pool, so a +1 hierotitan capacity would take 6 turns to replace each time, ushabti 4 turns each time. Ra Ra Rasputin fucked around with this message at 07:17 on Jan 26, 2018 |
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Jan 26, 2018 07:14
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If you use global recruiting at the same time as normal recruiting you can get back up to a full stack a bit faster. Then you can suicide thousands of skeletons to get where you need to go. I have battle markers recording 7000+ casualty battles in some provinces, from the first 20 turns. Once you get 3-4 stacks it gets easier to just pile on with more and more skellingtons. Coming up with the money is hard but at least you probably won’t be having any public order problems so if you can just avoid getting sacked, every province you capture intact is a great return on investment.
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