|
MMAgCh posted:Thanks for that. Keep in mind anything calculating average damage with GWM will make it seem a lot better than it actually is, because when you're actually in play it's often far more important to get the hit in the first place than it is to do an extra 10 damage if you do get the hit, and as you progress things start getting more and more AC making GWM worse and worse. It's still not a bad feat, just one that's easy to make look way too good by statistical averages, especially since most fights don't last more than 4 or 5 turns.
|
#
?
Jan 26, 2018 05:38
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 31, 2024 08:49 |
|
|
I loving love the idea that you shouldn't tell people what the best thing to do is when they as about doing something. Like can you loving imagine this in anything else. 'Hey can I stick this shock absorber into this 80's Honda Prelude?' 'Nah it'll seem fine for a little bit but eventually the main seal is going to give out because its not a twin seal system and loving take out the whole thing and gently caress up your car, don't do that' So loving Arthil drive bys in with a you take this all too seriously  poo poo and suggests they just go do whatever. Going out of their way to be unhelpful and doing nothing to answer the question. Do people like this not want questions to be answered and just a vague 'oh its fine' to every question about the game?
|
|
#
?
Jan 26, 2018 05:43
|
|
|
MMAgCh posted:Thanks for that. Yeah, with how feat-reliant martials are, Variant Humans are definitely a step ahead. I'd say the only races who compare are (half)elves when using their handful of Elven Accuracy builds, and Half-Orcs given how good Relentless Endurance is. Also, actually the best martial feat is PAM - I didn't include it in my calculations, but odds are you're going to get an extra attack out of it and probably more. That's huge. Additionally, breakdown is skewed towards GWM because it's singularly synergistic with Reckless Attack, but other than for Barbarian and Battle Master a strength ASI is almost on par. VanSandman posted:It’s probably been discussed before but I’m interested in a making a barbarian or other melee-focused murderizer for a game I’m in. What sort of build should I be looking at that is competent at least at murder and other barbarian-ish activities? Well, there are a few ways to do a competent bruiser. How do you feel about polearms? Or a shield and quarterstaff? Greatswords are decent enough for low levels. There's also Shield Bashing, which is pretty effective and synergistic with other melee buddies (but not ranged buddies). Dual-Wielding is generally bad, but it works on Barbarogues.
|
|
#
?
Jan 26, 2018 05:56
|
|
|
I'm here to beat everyone up
|
|
#
?
Jan 26, 2018 05:56
|
|
|
Willie Tomg posted:oh boy i just had to read this during morning-coffee-and-email-time huh? I can't stress enough how diabolical it is. Our party just fought 7 creatures that triple attack. We're third level. That's 21 attacks every turn. Our DM thought it was a TPK, but the dice gods gave us a hail mary and we only lost 3 players to unconsciousness, every person was single digit HP, all spells burned, gently caress yeah.
|
|
#
?
Jan 26, 2018 06:16
|
|
|
User0015 posted:I can't stress enough how diabolical it is. Our party just fought 7 creatures that triple attack. We're third level. That's 21 attacks every turn. What were they called out of curiosity. Edit I think I figured out what attacked you Pterafolk right? MonsterEnvy fucked around with this message at 06:21 on Jan 26, 2018 |
|
#
?
Jan 26, 2018 06:18
|
|
|
kingcom posted:I loving love the idea that you shouldn't tell people what the best thing to do is when they as about doing something. Like can you loving imagine this in anything else. Look when I ask for advice on a recipe I expect people to never mention how I'm not sweating my onions as I should for a good mushroom soup and if they mention I should add nutmeg I'm incensed. Also the concept that someone might be interested in engaging with cooking and learning is lunacy. Also a good eater will just add salt to taste and it'll be fine. Who cares that all my friends need to season this themselves (or order take out) because I just boiled ketchup and a hat for three hours. It's my character and you should work with me in this cooperative dinner. Also loving lol that I started a three page derail by saying some content was inappropriate, that people defended by saying to read the room. Repeatedly. When literally saying "that's not cool dude don't loving do that" sent them into paroxysms. What the gently caress is wrong where mentioning not wanting rape in a game is an argument. gently caress!
|
|
#
?
Jan 26, 2018 06:35
|
|
|
Xiahou Dun posted:Look when I ask for advice on a recipe I expect people to never mention how I'm not sweating my onions as I should for a good mushroom soup and if they mention I should add nutmeg I'm incensed. The recipe analogy is more like if you came in asking "Hey does anyone know what's the best kind of onion to use in this soup I'm trying to make?" and people replied "What the gently caress don't use onions even though you explicitly want onions, just use pre-fabricated soup stock like everyone else!". Like maybe the pre-fabricated soup stock tastes better overall, but if someone really likes onions don't try to stop them just because onions aren't the absolute tastiest option for the soup. Like goddamn I feel like minmaxers want everyone to just be variant humans or select elves forever. That's boring as poo poo, even if it's optimal. Being optimal is for suckers anyways, and it leads to super boring play. I feel like people in this thread are extremely bitter about some really bad DMs they had in the past and are unable to love again. Just let loose, try to find a more relaxed DM and game and enjoy playing an elf barbarian. Unless you're playing in something super tight and super challenging like ToA you can really, REALLY use stuff that's suboptimal and still succeed. It's true!
|
|
#
?
Jan 26, 2018 06:45
|
|
|
Whatever helps feel you're correct in your mind.
|
|
#
?
Jan 26, 2018 06:48
|
|
|
I mean I'm not gonna tell anyone else how to play, I just feel that, as a DM, I'd rather encourage stuff like elf barbarians than Yet Another Variant Human.
|
|
#
?
Jan 26, 2018 06:50
|
|
|
I didn't want to say it but yeah it just feels like everyone here, almost, has played with these extremely hard-assed DMs that have absolutely no wiggle room whatsoever and kill their friends character with a stone-faced expression while handing them a blank character sheet.
|
|
#
?
Jan 26, 2018 06:54
|
|
|
Infinity Gaia posted:The recipe analogy is more like if you came in asking "Hey does anyone know what's the best kind of onion to use in this soup I'm trying to make?" and people replied "What the gently caress don't use onions even though you explicitly want onions, just use pre-fabricated soup stock like everyone else!". Like maybe the pre-fabricated soup stock tastes better overall, but if someone really likes onions don't try to stop them just because onions aren't the absolute tastiest option for the soup. Like goddamn I feel like minmaxers want everyone to just be variant humans or select elves forever. That's boring as poo poo, even if it's optimal. Being optimal is for suckers anyways, and it leads to super boring play. I mean but most of the "optimizers" in this thread are unhappy with this and wish the options were good to be fun without loving yourself over????? Also unrelated but you just outed yourself as a terrible cook and very obviously didn't get the metaphor. Not like in a judgey way, that just obviously didn't land, sorry.
|
|
#
?
Jan 26, 2018 06:56
|
|
|
Infinity Gaia posted:I mean I'm not gonna tell anyone else how to play, I just feel that, as a DM, I'd rather encourage stuff like elf barbarians than Yet Another Variant Human. And as someone who has read the rules and played the game, when someone asks for general advise, I'm going to apply common sense and explain what's good, and why it's good, or the corollary why things are bad, and leave up to the person to do with the knowledge what they please. Because that seems a hell of a lot more productive than creating some sort of strawman in my head about how people taking the time to analyze the system and answer questions about its intricacies want to force everyone to play it a certain way, and therefore I have a moral duty to stand up and declare how they're wrong - without actually providing any meaningful advise whatsoever.
|
|
#
?
Jan 26, 2018 07:00
|
|
|
Xiahou Dun posted:I mean but most of the "optimizers" in this thread are unhappy with this and wish the options were good to be fun without loving yourself over????? I mean food analogies are terrible in general but I do admit to not knowing a single goddamn thing about cooking, yes. Conspiratiorist posted:And as someone who has read the rules and played the game, when someone asks for general advise, I'm going to apply common sense and explain what's good, and why it's good, or the corollary why things are bad, and leave up to the person to do with the knowledge what they please. My meaningful advice: Talk to the DM about the desire to play an elf barbarian, see if the two of you can't work out some way for it to function. You can start with just simply reskinning some stuff to better fit the desired flavor, like giving the elf "special body paint" that's just medium armor, so that they can be "naked". Maybe try to compromise on the dual wielding axes by giving them one of those goofy two-ended axes and just flavor all the combat dialog around that while still allowing them to use GWM and the like. As for being an elf and the stat issues derived from that, maybe the DM can agree to seed in some of those stat manuals later on in the adventure so that your elf can eventually catch up. All of this is very reasonable stuff I'd allow in a heartbeat, and I'd probably do more stuff besides. Hell, even if your DM is a total hardass about the rules he might still allow for cosmetic reskinning Infinity Gaia fucked around with this message at 07:05 on Jan 26, 2018 |
|
#
?
Jan 26, 2018 07:01
|
|
|
Arthil posted:I didn't want to say it but yeah it just feels like everyone here, almost, has played with these extremely hard-assed DMs that have absolutely no wiggle room whatsoever and kill their friends character with a stone-faced expression while handing them a blank character sheet. no but most people in here who've gmed for any amount of time knows what it's like to have a player under performing that they have to adjust encounters for or they have to give that player extra items and then account for that or you've got a character sitting there whiffing every other attack if their lucky and then they aren't having fun but if you knock enemy defences down then woops the party wizard just killed everything with a fireball because he did optimize and the game becomes a mess.
|
|
#
?
Jan 26, 2018 07:01
|
|
|
Elfgames posted:no but most people in here who've gmed for any amount of time knows what it's like to have a player under performing that they have to adjust encounters for or they have to give that player extra items and then account for that or you've got a character sitting there whiffing every other attack if their lucky and then they aren't having fun but if you knock enemy defences down then woops the party wizard just killed everything with a fireball because he did optimize and the game becomes a mess. So long as you make sure the barbarian gets his moment to shine, in my experience, they will totally forgive all the times Minmax The Mage obliterated an encounter. Give the barbarian a one-on-one fight against some tribal boss while the rest of the party has to run interference! Have him be the center of attention when they go to the tribal lands and have to interact in barbarian culture and he's the only one that knows what the gently caress! Or, honestly, just have a really long combat day with plenty of short rests for some reason or another, that always makes martials shine over full casters. I'm a GM too, man. I just don't mind balancing my players out if it's necessary.
|
|
#
?
Jan 26, 2018 07:09
|
|
|
NeurosisHead posted:Is there a comprehensive list of what classes I am allowed to play and how I am allowed to play them anywhere tia Yep it’s in the 4e PHB
|
|
#
?
Jan 26, 2018 07:15
|
|
|
All races should just let you pick a +2 stat and a +1 stat, then have whatever their racial banner ability is.
|
|
#
?
Jan 26, 2018 07:16
|
|
|
Infinity Gaia posted:I mean food analogies are terrible in general but I do admit to not knowing a single goddamn thing about cooking, yes. Yeah no one (reasonable) disagrees with any of this, we just wish the game worked out of the box and didn't need this. Also like seriously learn to cook. It's fun! This is cheap and is a great start and you'll be happier, trust me. Also in like a year you'll get my reference instead of bumbling in going, " well car analogies never work I can't drive! Since the analogy is meaningless to me I'll make poo poo up rather than saying it didn't make things clearer which is the point of analogies and be a twat." (If someone is trying to explain things and you don't understand it's okay to ask.)
|
|
#
?
Jan 26, 2018 07:16
|
|
|
Infinity Gaia posted:So long as you make sure the barbarian gets his moment to shine, in my experience, they will totally forgive all the times Minmax The Mage obliterated an encounter. Give the barbarian a one-on-one fight against some tribal boss while the rest of the party has to run interference! Have him be the center of attention when they go to the tribal lands and have to interact in barbarian culture and he's the only one that knows what the gently caress! Or, honestly, just have a really long combat day with plenty of short rests for some reason or another, that always makes martials shine over full casters. Barbarians are a long rest class.
|
|
#
?
Jan 26, 2018 07:19
|
|
|
Xiahou Dun posted:Yeah no one (reasonable) disagrees with any of this, we just wish the game worked out of the box and didn't need this. Maybe just don't use analogies only a small amount of people can understand then?
|
|
#
?
Jan 26, 2018 07:21
|
|
|
Niche thing : making food all people need to live. Kay???????????
|
|
#
?
Jan 26, 2018 07:23
|
|
|
Xiahou Dun posted:Niche thing : making food all people need to live. Not really, nowadays. I don't know a single person capable of REALLY cooking. drat near everyone I know at work or elsewhere just does frozen food all the time... Also it's less just 'making food' and more 'making food correctly and using proper ingredient and methods'. God knows I doubt I could find a handful of people in an office building that know what the hell sweating an onion even means.
|
|
#
?
Jan 26, 2018 07:24
|
|
|
The reason why people give advice without the expectation of a gregarious DM is not (only) because we expect DMs to be assholes, but we do expect DMs to maybe not know better. Maybe it makes sense to me that racial stat bonuses should just be generalized. Maybe it makes sense to me that players should get better items to shore up weakpoints of their character (that are not their fault). Maybe it makes sense to me that "MAD" classes should use a different stat array or get more stat increases. But I can't make that assumption with everyone, and even though it is absolutely correct that you should have an amiable conversation with the DM about what you want to do and how you can work with each other to accommodate it, what if they still don't? And what if they don't because of reasons besides wanting to gently caress you over because they're a jerk? This ties back to the idea that the printed book matters, because as a DM, I don't actually like having to keep a bunch of poo poo in my head about how I'm rejiggering the game to make it better for everyone at the table. Ideally, running the game as-is would already do that!
|
|
#
?
Jan 26, 2018 07:24
|
|
|
Infinity Gaia posted:Not really, nowadays. I don't know a single person capable of REALLY cooking. drat near everyone I know at work or elsewhere just does frozen food all the time... Fine you're a surprisingly broken person living in a post-apocalypse. That has nothing to do with the analogy. Just say you didn't understand. Edit : making soup isn't esoteric wisdom and is older than writing wtf is wrong with you.
|
|
#
?
Jan 26, 2018 07:27
|
|
|
I agree that the printed book matters, and that ideally all of those things should already exist in it. But they... Don't. And people don't want to play another better balanced game, for whatever godforsaken reason the only thing anyone seems to want to play these days is 5E. It took me over a year of constant pressure to convince my players to give a different system a chance. So if you MUST play 5E, might as well edit it so that it's less broken.Xiahou Dun posted:Fine you're a surprisingly broken person living in a post-apocalypse. Dude I'm not joking or anything I'm being 100% serious when I say that sweating an onion is not a common concept and you should not expect the vast majority of people to understand what the hell you're talking about if you use that analogy basically anywhere.
|
|
#
?
Jan 26, 2018 07:28
|
|
|
gradenko_2000 posted:This ties back to the idea that the printed book matters, because as a DM, I don't actually like having to keep a bunch of poo poo in my head about how I'm rejiggering the game to make it better for everyone at the table. Ideally, running the game as-is would already do that!
|
|
#
?
Jan 26, 2018 07:28
|
|
|
Infinity Gaia posted:Not really, nowadays. I don't know a single person capable of REALLY cooking. drat near everyone I know at work or elsewhere just does frozen food all the time... Peak goonpost and sad post in this thread, which is some Olympic level posting.
|
|
#
?
Jan 26, 2018 07:29
|
|
|
Mr. Maltose posted:Peak goonpost and sad post in this thread, which is some Olympic level posting. Excuse me for not being a cook in the D&D thread, I was not aware that was a requirement for posting.
|
|
#
?
Jan 26, 2018 07:31
|
|
|
Infinity Gaia posted:Dude I'm not joking or anything I'm being 100% serious when I say that sweating an onion is not a common concept and you should not expect the vast majority of people to understand what the hell you're talking about if you use that analogy basically anywhere. It's a really common concept actually. Please learn to cook it's really good and fun.
|
|
#
?
Jan 26, 2018 07:32
|
|
|
Infinity Gaia posted:Excuse me for not being a cook in the D&D thread, I was not aware that was a requirement for posting. You're excused just don't let it happen again.
|
|
#
?
Jan 26, 2018 07:32
|
|
|
Like, not being a cook or being cognizant of other people who are capable of cooking isn't a requirement to post but it is a legitimately sad thing to hear an adult admit?
|
|
#
?
Jan 26, 2018 07:34
|
|
|
Infinity Gaia posted:Not really, nowadays. I don't know a single person capable of REALLY cooking. drat near everyone I know at work or elsewhere just does frozen food all the time... The metaphor was literally about asking for advice on how to do a thing properly and you just scoffed at the concept of quality. While knowing you didn't know what it meant. my mind reels you won fine gently caress it who cares lets burn it all down advice is just some poo poo who cares
|
|
#
?
Jan 26, 2018 07:34
|
|
|
Mr. Maltose posted:Like, not being a cook or being cognizant of other people who are capable of cooking isn't a requirement to post but it is a legitimately sad thing to hear an adult admit? It's not like I eat unhealthily, there are a lot of pre-made health food dishes these days. I don't know why the hell it's sad to not be able to cook, it's just not really a necessary skill for my life in any way. Edit: Why the hell am I defending my inability to cook in the goddamn 5E thread. This is stupid.
|
|
#
?
Jan 26, 2018 07:37
|
|
|
We're merely finding out your bad d&d opinions are symptoms of bigger issues in your life.
|
|
#
?
Jan 26, 2018 07:39
|
|
|
I don't really care that you can't cook but that you're almost proud of it is dumb. Also that you engaged in a conversation you were clueless about as if making soup was loving alchemy. Also that.
|
|
#
?
Jan 26, 2018 07:40
|
|
|
Conspiratiorist posted:We're merely finding out your bad d&d opinions are symptoms of bigger issues in your life. I'm doing just fine in my life without being able to cook and holding my current opinions in D&D, thanks. It's less that I'm proud of not being able to cook so much as I'm incredulous at the idea that you seem to believe it to be a common skill. When it is very much not.
|
|
#
?
Jan 26, 2018 07:41
|
|
|
Infinity Gaia posted:It's less that I'm proud of not being able to cook so much as I'm incredulous at the idea that you seem to believe it to be a common skill. When it is very much not. It actually really definitely is. If you think about it every meal you've ever eaten has required someone to cook it. You would not be able to eat as many meals if it was not a common skill. Even frozen food has to be cooked. Food for thought!
|
|
#
?
Jan 26, 2018 07:45
|
|
|
Like just tomato sauce. You can make a good arrabiata while drunk, one handed. It's delicious! The book I linked even has a recipe!
|
|
#
?
Jan 26, 2018 07:46
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 31, 2024 08:49 |
|
|
Please cook. It is an essential part of being a functional adult and is more important than elfgames.
|
|
#
?
Jan 26, 2018 07:47
|
|