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it shoulda been ackbar.
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Jan 26, 2018 23:57
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Groovelord Neato posted:it shoulda been ackbar. Totally a missed opportunity: Ackbar: It's a trap... ... ...  Although someone named "Ackbar" performing a suicide attack might have been, um, problematic.
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Jan 27, 2018 00:04
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that's exactly how i envisioned it.
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Jan 27, 2018 00:13
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Ferrinus posted:She was absolutely within the range in which they could penetrate her shields and shoot her down. They didn't do it because they were busy blasting the lifeboats apart instead. This. They made a point to say "focus on the transports". They did some dumb stuff, but the only way Holdo was able to get in position and hit the drive was because they werent paying any attention to her ship. That, at least makes sense.
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Jan 27, 2018 00:16
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no it doesnt, because ships dont blow up in .2s in star wars hyperspace trackery fuckery can be reconciled. diverted shield power can be reconciled. 'ordinarily this wouldn't happen because the attacking ship would be blown up' can't, because it's totally inconsistent with the rest of star wars. TheDeadlyShoe fucked around with this message at 00:24 on Jan 27, 2018 |
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Jan 27, 2018 00:19
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TheDeadlyShoe posted:no it doesnt, because ships dont blow up in .2s in star wars The entire movie centers around the Resistance ships trying to stay as far away as they can, because if they get any closer the First Order ships will be able to destroy them. Holdo's attack didn't actually happen in a fifth of a second; she spent plenty of time stopping, turning around, taxi-ing up to the FO ships, and charging her engine before the jump actually happened. The FO easily could've focused all their lasers on her and even launched fighters to speed the job up, but they didn't because they thought they'd won.
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Jan 27, 2018 00:27
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Ferrinus posted:The entire movie centers around the Resistance ships trying to stay as far away as they can, because if they get any closer the First Order ships will be able to destroy them. Holdo's attack didn't actually happen in a fifth of a second; she spent plenty of time stopping, turning around, taxi-ing up to the FO ships, and charging her engine before the jump actually happened. The FO easily could've focused all their lasers on her and even launched fighters to speed the job up, but they didn't because they thought they'd won. Then why didn’t they?
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Jan 27, 2018 00:41
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^^^^ Hux told them not to the hyper space part can be argued about, im only saying that she had the time to do it. of all the problems with the movie, they literally told us why she could get into position. is it dumb that they didnt just keep blasting the capitol ship? i think so. it was also stupid that the dreadnought captain was complaining that they didnt launch the tie fighters when they jumped into the rebel system. why didnt that happen? they knew that the rebels were there, they should have operated as they normally would. ptkfvk fucked around with this message at 00:45 on Jan 27, 2018 |
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Jan 27, 2018 00:42
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TildeATH posted:Then why didn’t they? Hux got excited at the tipoff from the hacker character and ordered them to start shooting down the lil lifeboats instead.
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Jan 27, 2018 00:48
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Hodgepodge posted:The productive point is broader, that being that an Objectivist would naturally seek to destroy the Force, since it is a form of human interconnection more powerful than that of capital. I am at most suspicious of the fact that you see a power granted to slaves and your reaction is "that power would be better off destroyed." As a metaphor, the Force is God in its impersonal form. The Holy Spirit is God made available not to the chosen few or embodied in a leader, but to the community of believers. The New Testament also uses miraculous supernatural powers to convey this metaphor. I am curious as to where you dispute this. This is another error caused by carelessness. I did not write anything about destroying the bionet. Where did you get that notion? But, secondly, what objectivist/libertarian type would seek to destroy the internet and/or oppose the proliferation of unlicensed weaponry? Recall that the plan to give everyone mutant powers (“and when everyone is super, no-one will be!”) is the plot of both the mutant supremacist villain of X-Men 1 and the free-market libertarian villain of The Incredibles.
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Jan 27, 2018 00:58
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bushisms.txt posted:If nothing else, you can't say SMG isn't funny. I can say that. I can absolutely say that.
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Jan 27, 2018 00:58
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there's a difference between 'able to destroy them' and 'destroy them super fast'. The only time that happens in Star Wars is with the Death Star Laser. Star Wars spaceship fights happen at super close range, and they take a while. They've always had an Age of Sail vibe; it's only the fighters that have had a WW2/Vietnam vibe. Rogue One is an excellent recent example of this - it even also featured ramming ftw, but it specifically set it up and justified it. The reason the hyper-ram such a problem is that the assumptions required to make it work violate the aesthetic. If Snoke's flagship could splatter the rebel ship (supposedly 2x bigger than a star destroyer) in less time than it takes to line up a jump, then the Super Star Destroyer should've won the Battle of Endor by itself while Luke was still jabbering on in the throne room. If Hyperspace Rams work against ships normally, everyone in Star Wars is wearing an idiot cap for not being smart enough to invent a hyper-missile. Think about it going forward. Future star wars will have to pretend it never happened, embrace it, or invent an ex-post-facto justification as to why it was a one time thing. This happens quite often in sci fi franchises, but it's always acknowledge to be a *mistake*. Because it is. Like the Stargate thing with 'three shots vaporize' - they just pretend that never happened, because it was actively harmful to future scripts. And think about it going backwards. We'll also have to ignore that this is a possibility when rewatching previous films - films that specifically feature highly expendable droids that ceaselessly marched into certain death! TheDeadlyShoe fucked around with this message at 01:09 on Jan 27, 2018 |
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Jan 27, 2018 01:05
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SuperMechagodzilla posted:This is another error caused by carelessness. I did not write anything about destroying the bionet. Where did you get that notion? Ah, I see; I must have mistaken your saying that if my argument were true then the Force would be destroyed for an argument that this would be necessary and desirable resolution.
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Jan 27, 2018 01:09
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TheDeadlyShoe posted:there's a difference between 'able to destroy them' and 'destroy them super fast'. The only time that happens in Star Wars is with the Death Star Laser. Star Wars spaceship fights happen at super close range, and they take a while. They've always had an Age of Sail vibe; it's only the fighters that have had a WW2/Vietnam vibe. Rogue One is an excellent recent example of this - it even also featured ramming ftw, but it specifically set it up and justified it. You've been aware that ships accelerate into hyperspace, and presumably you know what happens when one large object hits another at high speeds, so does that make you an idiot for not walking out of every other star wars movie saying "they should've just rammed them!" Like, no new concepts were introduced. Someone just did something that hadn't been done before.
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Jan 27, 2018 01:42
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It's unbelievable that you could just launch escape pods and if no life forms are detected the Empire will just not give a poo poo. You could hide literally anything in an unmanned vehicle. In a universe that specifically features functioning Droids. Future movies must reckon with this or face my pen.
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Jan 27, 2018 01:49
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SuperMechagodzilla posted:Everything I have written is both true and accurate. Your own Christology is suspect. You place Christ too far from the Father of the old testament, a Father which Christ explicitly drew a connection from: quote:17 The reason the Father loves Me is that I lay down My life in order to take it up again. So unlike the gnostics you acknowledge that it was the actual Christ that died on the Cross, but unlike Orthodoxy, you see it as a tragedy and not a triumph. The more orthodox reading is that it was both triumph and tragedy at once. quote:"I and the Father are one.”
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Jan 27, 2018 02:05
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Just saw this movie, pretty good. I don't get the people complaining about the 'side' mission to get the hacker, since it was clearly the defining and most critical part of the movie? Like it's apparent at this point that the 'star wars' don't actually matter. Everyone is caught in a loop going back and forth. There’s a republic, which is replaced by the empire, which is replaced by a new republic, which collapses and is replaced by the new empire so they can be plucky rebels again. It's all completely pointless. del Toro's 'They kill you today, you kill them tomorrow. Whatever' was probably the most profound statement in the movie. His chracter achieved enlightenment and attained nirvana, breaking out of the cycle of rebel and imperial pointlessness. The only people making forward progress are the ones selling arms to or profiting from these idiots, and I hope the next movies focus on them. mila kunis fucked around with this message at 02:18 on Jan 27, 2018 |
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Jan 27, 2018 02:07
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TheDeadlyShoe posted:there's a difference between 'able to destroy them' and 'destroy them super fast'. The only time that happens in Star Wars is with the Death Star Laser. Star Wars spaceship fights happen at super close range, and they take a while. They've always had an Age of Sail vibe; it's only the fighters that have had a WW2/Vietnam vibe. Rogue One is an excellent recent example of this - it even also featured ramming ftw, but it specifically set it up and justified it. We see one of the ailing Resistance ships run out of fuel and start to lag behind, and it gets blown up in like ten seconds. Hell, a few tie fighters take a few shots at the front of Holdo's ship (which is completely unshielded, since all the shields had been concentrated on the ship's flanks) and blow the bridge wide open immediately. Star Wars ship weapons are clearly much stronger per unit size than Star Wars ship hulls. For example, the payload of a single bomber that manages to reach its destination is able to destroy an entire dreadnaught. If you let the enemy get too close, and you don't have applicable shields or something, you're dead in the blink of an eye.
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Jan 27, 2018 02:09
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Tender Bender posted:I liked the movie a lot but concede it's heavily flawed, but it's weird how some people have fixated on nitpicking the movie's highlights (kamikaze, anything with Luke or Kylo). Because they aren't really highlights. The kamikaze thing is for example a visually very impressive scene the first time you see it but it won't stand the test of time because it doesn't have much of an emtional impact. An uninteresting character dies and in the grand scheme of things nothing changes. Obviously not every scene needs to have such an impact but the problem with TLJ is that pretty much all big moments fall flat on their face and that's why people start nitpicking because there simply is nothing else left to take apart.
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Jan 27, 2018 02:38
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LinkesAuge posted:Because they aren't really highlights. The kamikaze thing is for example a visually very impressive scene the first time you see it but it won't stand the test of time because it doesn't have much of an emtional impact. An uninteresting character dies and in the grand scheme of things nothing changes. That's not true though.
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Jan 27, 2018 02:39
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Rewatched Rogue One and netflix and noticed that K reads off 'Hyperspace tracking' as one of the data archive entries... xD Also note that Vader's ship emerged from hyperspace DIRECTLY into the path of the rebels hyperspacing out. Also note that "Hope" in Rogue One is the Death Star plans so they can blow the drat thing up, rather than a story about how luke got totally owned so 12 guys could escape. Ferrinus posted:We see one of the ailing Resistance ships run out of fuel and start to lag behind, and it gets blown up in like ten seconds. Hell, a few tie fighters take a few shots at the front of Holdo's ship (which is completely unshielded, since all the shields had been concentrated on the ship's flanks) and blow the bridge wide open immediately.
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Jan 27, 2018 02:57
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TheDeadlyShoe posted:Rewatched Rogue One and netflix and noticed that K reads off 'Hyperspace tracking' as one of the data archive entries... xD No one complains about one thing, therefore you are right to complain about another thing. Checks out.
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Jan 27, 2018 03:02
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TheDeadlyShoe posted:see also: A wing into SSD. What these things have in common is 'oh no our shields!!!' and then death. They are all set up specifically by the plot, and they all fit easily into the aesthetic established by star wars. Noone complains that bombers blew up the dreadnought, and noone complains that tie fighters blew up the bridge. Noone complains that fighters blew up the Death Stars. Right, and if they were consistent they would not complain that Holdo's close-range ram blew up Snoke's ship, because in Star Wars weapons are much stronger than hulls and Holdo could easily have been stopped by a Hux with his head on straight. Everyone's like "Holy poo poo... with this technology, Star Wars militaries could do insane damage!!!" But that's already true. They DO have futuristic weapons technology, such as laser cannons, and they use those to rapidly chew through the puny metals and, I don't know, plastics or whatever of their enemies.
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Jan 27, 2018 03:04
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TheDeadlyShoe posted:Rewatched Rogue One and netflix and noticed that K reads off 'Hyperspace tracking' as one of the data archive entries... xD rogue one is much much worse than last jedi.
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Jan 27, 2018 03:05
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Someone arguing that kamikaze hyperspace not being widely used makes no sense in a universe with droid pilots and autopiloting ships, uses the super star destroyer as an example of the right way to do things. A ten mile long ship has its bridge, located in an extremely vulnerable spot, destroyed, and there's no way either manually or through autopiloting to stop it from crashing. You're OK with that.
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Jan 27, 2018 03:08
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Also the entire star destroyer is paralyzed, seemingly indefinitely, by like one crackly blue bomb dropped by a single fighter-sized ship or something like that.
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Jan 27, 2018 03:12
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Ferrinus posted:Also the entire star destroyer is paralyzed, seemingly indefinitely, by like one crackly blue bomb dropped by a single fighter-sized ship or something like that. And we loving know tractor beams exist, yet they are only used like twice in the entire series. The writers have to address this or reveal themselves as dolts, cowards, or worse: Both.
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Jan 27, 2018 03:16
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Tender Bender posted:The writers have to address this or reveal themselves as dolts, cowards, or worse: Bothan.
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Jan 27, 2018 03:25
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tekz posted:Just saw this movie, pretty good. I don't get the people complaining about the 'side' mission to get the hacker, since it was clearly the defining and most critical part of the movie? It was a waste of screen time.
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Jan 27, 2018 03:27
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Corky Romanovsky posted:It was a waste of screen time. Incorrect, it was the only meaningful part of the movie.
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Jan 27, 2018 03:43
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Tender Bender posted:You've been aware that ships accelerate into hyperspace, and presumably you know what happens when one large object hits another at high speeds, so does that make you an idiot for not walking out of every other star wars movie saying "they should've just rammed them!" It’s not true they might just be receding into a different dimensional axis which just looks like acceleration to an outside observer. From a hard sci-fi perspective (which I grant is not Star Wars) this would make more sense than a sudden jump to near lightspeed before entering “hyper” space.
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Jan 27, 2018 03:44
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Tender Bender posted:You've been aware that ships accelerate into hyperspace, and presumably you know what happens when one large object hits another at high speeds, so does that make you an idiot for not walking out of every other star wars movie saying "they should've just rammed them!" I'm not actually sure they've ever introduced the idea of a gradual acceleration into ftl, rather than basically instantaneous infinite acceleration. Although I agree that considering all of the problems this movie has, that scene didn't even register as a blip to me.
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Jan 27, 2018 03:53
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Tender Bender posted:No one complains about one thing, therefore you are right to complain about another thing. Checks out. they don't complain about them because they make sense in the setting, which i shouldn't have to point out, since it was implicit in everything i said. is it that hard to discuss things in good faith when we're just talking about star wars? The point is that there is a difference in kind between those events and the hyperspace ram, and the reasons why have been outlined repeatedly. Tender Bender posted:Someone arguing that kamikaze hyperspace not being widely used makes no sense in a universe with droid pilots and autopiloting ships, uses the super star destroyer as an example of the right way to do things. A ten mile long ship has its bridge, located in an extremely vulnerable spot, destroyed, and there's no way either manually or through autopiloting to stop it from crashing. You're OK with that. Why wouldn't I be? Groovelord Neato posted:rogue one is much much worse than last jedi. I didn't issue any opinions about Rogue One. Certainly it has its problems. They were just points i noted when skimming through it, in the context of TLJ. Hyperspace tracking was a clever little bit that i had completely missed, for example. Why would anyone remember it without reason to...? edit: I think its important to note that even the best film has flaws, and that people enjoy different things about films. Even if you don't care about XYZ, you can at least recognize why someone else might see it as a flaw. TheDeadlyShoe fucked around with this message at 04:07 on Jan 27, 2018 |
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Jan 27, 2018 03:57
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TheDeadlyShoe posted:The point is that there is a difference in kind between those events and the hyperspace ram, and the reasons why have been outlined repeatedly. And then soundly debunked. In point of fact the Star Wars setting is one in which naval offense is way stronger than naval defense in general, and the limitations of the hyperspace ram, in combination with the ease and utility of the regular weapons everyone already uses, make it obvious why it isn't a common tactic.
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Jan 27, 2018 04:00
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Ferrinus posted:And then soundly debunked. In point of fact the Star Wars setting is one in which naval offense is way stronger than naval defense in general, and the limitations of the hyperspace ram, in combination with the ease and utility of the regular weapons everyone already uses, make it obvious why it isn't a common tactic. Yeah why did the hyperspacing ships bounce off Vader’s star destroyer instead of slice through them anyway? I feel like the difference in size wasn’t even as pronounced as the TLJ version of the same. At the risk of being probated I’m going to admit I never read any of the technical read outs or novelizations so maybe the tech is more explained to people like me who are only watching the movies and clips of Star Wars Rebels on YT.
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Jan 27, 2018 04:06
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Ferrinus posted:And then soundly debunked. In point of fact the Star Wars setting is one in which naval offense is way stronger than naval defense in general, and the limitations of the hyperspace ram, in combination with the ease and utility of the regular weapons everyone already uses, make it obvious why it isn't a common tactic. Sure, ok.  
TheDeadlyShoe fucked around with this message at 04:12 on Jan 27, 2018 |
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Jan 27, 2018 04:08
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TildeATH posted:Yeah why did the hyperspacing ships bounce off Vader’s star destroyer instead of slice through them anyway? I feel like the difference in size wasn’t even as pronounced as the TLJ version of the same. Assuming the ship is near light speed when it hits, it doesn't really matter what size it is, it's approaching infinite momentum. An x-wing should slice through Snoke's ship just as easily, as long as it's well aimed.
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Jan 27, 2018 04:14
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TildeATH posted:Yeah why did the hyperspacing ships bounce off Vader’s star destroyer instead of slice through them anyway? I feel like the difference in size wasn’t even as pronounced as the TLJ version of the same. There's like one ship that hits vader's ship and it hasn't made "the jump" the way holdo did. It's just kinda moving forward.
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Jan 27, 2018 04:15
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TheDeadlyShoe posted:
Yeah but on the flip side just because you dislike a movie doesn't mean everyone needs to concede that your inane musings are flaws.
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Jan 27, 2018 04:17
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TildeATH posted:Yeah why did the hyperspacing ships bounce off Vader’s star destroyer instead of slice through them anyway? I feel like the difference in size wasn’t even as pronounced as the TLJ version of the same. Holdo's ship was way larger in proportion to Snoke's ship than an x-wing is to a star destroyer. TheDeadlyShoe posted:Sure, ok. How strange that these comparably powerful ships might, upon getting close enough to penetrate each other's shields, use non-suicidal means of attack.
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Jan 27, 2018 04:24
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