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GoutPatrol
Oct 17, 2009

*Stupid Babby*

SweetSassyMolassy posted:

Municipal pensions aren't necessarily bad. Many states have the option to allow municipalities to utilize the state's pension plan, given that they meet the same obligations the state does in order to keep the pension going the way it has to go. If you're a municipality in a state that has a well tended pension fund, then utilizing a deal like that can be really GWM. However, the opposite is true if you're a muni in a state with a poorly tended pension fund. Here's a handy graphic of how well off pension funds were in the different states https://taxfoundation.org/state-pensions-funding-2017/. I wouldn't be betting too hard on an Illinois or Kentucky pension, but would bet money on an Oregon or South Dakota pension.

With regards to having to stick in one job for 30 years, that may be true with megacorps like AT&T, but with the above mentioned types of reciprocal muni/state agreements, its possible to float around state and muni positions as well as maybe university jobs and keep your pension building. Makes me curious if NYC utilizes NY state's pension system or not. Surprised me that NY has such a highly funded pension fund.

Pretty sure it is all state controlled since the 70s and "drop dead."

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BEHOLD: MY CAPE
Jan 11, 2004
Call me the suspicious and conspiratorial type but I trust nobody with my retirement security except me. If they don't find some way to steal or excuse themselves of responsibility to pay the money I have earned before I retire, great that's just an added bonus. I would opt out of Social Security in a heartbeat if given the opportunity, even if it was a good deal from an actuarial/investment return perspective (it is not, for me).

therobit
Aug 19, 2008

I've been tryin' to speak with you for a long time

SweetSassyMolassy posted:

Municipal pensions aren't necessarily bad. Many states have the option to allow municipalities to utilize the state's pension plan, given that they meet the same obligations the state does in order to keep the pension going the way it has to go. If you're a municipality in a state that has a well tended pension fund, then utilizing a deal like that can be really GWM. However, the opposite is true if you're a muni in a state with a poorly tended pension fund. Here's a handy graphic of how well off pension funds were in the different states https://taxfoundation.org/state-pensions-funding-2017/. I wouldn't be betting too hard on an Illinois or Kentucky pension, but would bet money on an Oregon or South Dakota pension.

With regards to having to stick in one job for 30 years, that may be true with megacorps like AT&T, but with the above mentioned types of reciprocal muni/state agreements, its possible to float around state and muni positions as well as maybe university jobs and keep your pension building. Makes me curious if NYC utilizes NY state's pension system or not. Surprised me that NY has such a highly funded pension fund.

I would not bet on an Oregon pension if you are not already in the tier 1 or tier 2 group. Anyone younger is not going to get as good of a deal and every year the state has large budget shortfalls. The legislature has tried repeatedly to take away benefits from people who are already retired and keeps getting slapped down by the courts. The schools had the largest ever increase in funding this last year but still had to implement across the board cuts so they can meet thier pension obligations. The legislature still doesn't have the courage to try to reform it in a way that won't land them in court again.

Suprfli6
Jul 9, 2008

:shepface:God I fucking love Diablo 3 gold, it even paid for this shitty title:shepface:

Yeah there was a lot of speculation this year that the NY constitutional convention on the ballot would be used to raid the pension fund if it passed. It didn't even come close so now I just need to dodge the next one in 20 years!

BWM content: most of my coworkers save nothing for retirement because they assume their pension will be more than enough.

Raldikuk
Apr 7, 2006

I'm bad with money and I want that meatball!

SiGmA_X posted:

My company just froze the pension for all eligible employees - and they stopped offering it to new employees around 15yrs ago. Shortly after we went public, it can't be linked. Upside is with the freeze, they raised the match from 6% to 9%, so as a 401k-only employee, I am happy about it.


Doctors are the best.
code:
medicare		2,175.00 
social security		7,960.80 
tax			36,912.08 
cash			102,822.13 
401k			729.82    
			150,599.83 

I love the parenthetical revealing that he is unsure if he added two numbers correctly or not.

bird with big dick
Oct 21, 2015

Krispy Wafer posted:

making lots of stupid mistakes like Ford Mustangs

Reported.

melon cat
Jan 21, 2010

Nap Ghost

BEHOLD: MY CAPE posted:

Call me the suspicious and conspiratorial type but I trust nobody with my retirement security except me. If they don't find some way to steal or excuse themselves of responsibility to pay the money I have earned before I retire, great that's just an added bonus. I would opt out of Social Security in a heartbeat if given the opportunity, even if it was a good deal from an actuarial/investment return perspective (it is not, for me).
I feel the same way. Pension funds go bust. It's a thing.

When I worked in banking an alarming amount of people would tell me that the Canadian Pension Plan (Canada's national pension plan) is their retirement plan. Which is supplemental income at best and eating cat food for dinner at worst. As in, it is their only retirement plan.

Expecting the government not to squander your forced savings over 50 years is putting a lot of faith in the system.

SiGmA_X
May 3, 2004
SiGmA_X

EAT FASTER!!!!!! posted:

OOo god drat that's the good stuff.

Raldikuk posted:

I love the parenthetical revealing that she is unsure if she added two numbers correctly or not.
She is doing something wrong with maths or pretax deductions. She says the 39k is ALL taxes (2,4,6,17), so the missing 10k must not be the FICA I (and someone @ Reddit) plugged, but rather a pretax withholding.

I find it hard to imagine working and NEVER looking at a pay stub... It must be because I'm a poor (or an accountant, either way) vs. a doctor. Aren't pay summaries usually located at the same place you setup direct deposit? My various companies sites have always had them on the same pages/sub-sites...

therobit posted:

I would not bet on an Oregon pension if you are not already in the tier 1 or tier 2 group. Anyone younger is not going to get as good of a deal and every year the state has large budget shortfalls. The legislature has tried repeatedly to take away benefits from people who are already retired and keeps getting slapped down by the courts. The schools had the largest ever increase in funding this last year but still had to implement across the board cuts so they can meet thier pension obligations. The legislature still doesn't have the courage to try to reform it in a way that won't land them in court again.
Yep, Oregon Pension are not going to be great long-term.

quote:

http://www.oregonlive.com/business/index.ssf/2017/03/johnny_delashaw_prolific_surge.html

The Feb. 10 report found that in his first 16 months at Swedish, Delashaw became the most prolific brain and spine surgeon in Washington, handling 661 inpatient cases that generated $86 million in charges for the hospital.
<snip>
Delashaw is the highest grossing recipient of the Oregon Public Employees Retirement System. He retired in 2015 with an annualized benefit of $663,354 - or $55,280 a month. That eclipsed the former leading PERS recipient, former University of Oregon football coach Mike Bellotti, whose annual benefit was $536,995.

Delashaw earned nearly $1.8 million at OHSU in Portland in 2011 and nearly $2 million in 2010, according to records released to The Oregonian/OregonLive by OHSU.
This story is good. The comments are pretty good too. (This doc was awesome IMO, I saw him for a spine injury and my cousin worked in the operating room with him for a few years, but it sounds like things may have not always been on the up-and-up. He talked me into cancelling a surgery I had scheduled with another neuro, after getting two additional opinions. Delashaw convinced me to double down on PT, which 98% fixed me.)

Cockmaster
Feb 24, 2002

Now you've got me wondering if one of the weed ETFs (I have no delusions of being qualified to identify individual stocks worth having) might be a worthy addition to my portfolio.

FrozenVent
May 1, 2009

The Boeing 737-200QC is the undisputed workhorse of the skies.

SiGmA_X posted:

I find it hard to imagine working and NEVER looking at a pay stub... It must be because I'm a poor (or an accountant, either way) vs. a doctor. Aren't pay summaries usually located at the same place you setup direct deposit? My various companies sites have always had them on the same pages/sub-sites...

I rarely check my pay stubs because fuuuuuck logging into adp, that stupid piece of poo poo software.

kimbo305
Jun 9, 2007

actually, yeah, I am a little mad

SiGmA_X posted:

This doc was awesome IMO, I saw him for a spine injury and my cousin worked in the operating room with him for a few years, but it sounds like things may have not always been on the up-and-up.
He talked me into cancelling a surgery I had scheduled with another neuro, after getting two additional opinions. Delashaw convinced me to double down on PT, which 98% fixed me.

I don't quite grasp your anecdote. Do you think the other surgery might have beat 98%? Would you have wanted the surgery if it could do 100%?
In your case, he didn't get more money from your case, right? Or was the PT going to pay him, too?
Is your case an indictment of his "on the up-and-up" status? I couldn't figure that out.

Mantle
May 15, 2004

melon cat posted:

I feel the same way. Pension funds go bust. It's a thing.

When I worked in banking an alarming amount of people would tell me that the Canadian Pension Plan (Canada's national pension plan) is their retirement plan. Which is supplemental income at best and eating cat food for dinner at worst. As in, it is their only retirement plan.

Expecting the government not to squander your forced savings over 50 years is putting a lot of faith in the system.

Is it really squandering though or is it more of a case of small contributions, small returns?

mandatory lesbian
Dec 18, 2012

SiGmA_X posted:

I find it hard to imagine working and NEVER looking at a pay stub... It must be because I'm a poor (or an accountant, either way) vs. a doctor. Aren't pay summaries usually located at the same place you setup direct deposit? My various companies sites have always had them on the same pages/sub-sites...

TBH I never really check my pay stub either, I just make sure I got my money in the bank every Friday. I'm not making over 150k a year tho, and I know where to go to get the stubs online if i did need them

BigDave
Jul 14, 2009

Taste the High Country

FrozenVent posted:

I rarely check my pay stubs because fuuuuuck logging into adp, that stupid piece of poo poo software.

At least you have software.

Raldikuk
Apr 7, 2006

I'm bad with money and I want that meatball!

SiGmA_X posted:

She is doing something wrong with maths or pretax deductions. She says the 39k is ALL taxes (2,4,6,17), so the missing 10k must not be the FICA I (and someone @ Reddit) plugged, but rather a pretax withholding.

I find it hard to imagine working and NEVER looking at a pay stub... It must be because I'm a poor (or an accountant, either way) vs. a doctor. Aren't pay summaries usually located at the same place you setup direct deposit? My various companies sites have always had them on the same pages/sub-sites...
Yep, Oregon Pension are not going to be great long-term.
This story is good. The comments are pretty good too. (This doc was awesome IMO, I saw him for a spine injury and my cousin worked in the operating room with him for a few years, but it sounds like things may have not always been on the up-and-up. He talked me into cancelling a surgery I had scheduled with another neuro, after getting two additional opinions. Delashaw convinced me to double down on PT, which 98% fixed me.)

That's definitely a more charitable (and likely correct) read of what they meant for sure. I am still amused to think that they really meant that they're not sure if they added two numbers correctly together rather than if they were accounting for everything.

As far as pay stubs my company has an HR portal to view paychecks and it is pretty easy to do. The same portal is where we access our timesheet as well. I always look over my paycheck with a fine tooth comb to make sure everything is on the up and up. I've been burned more than a few times by lazy payroll people or glitchy benefit deduction systems so I've just made it part of my routine. I also keep a file cabinet and I print the drat things off too.

Youth Decay
Aug 18, 2015

A Bossbabe hits rock bottom and has a spark of fire in her wants

Mad Wack
Mar 27, 2008

"The faster you use your cooldowns, the faster you can use them again"
if you have adp the mobile app is actually good for stubs

Haifisch
Nov 13, 2010

Objection! I object! That was... objectionable!



Taco Defender

Youth Decay posted:

A Bossbabe hits rock bottom and has a spark of fire in her wants

Translation: My SO got sick of me wasting all of our money on whatever the hell Posh is*, so he's hoping this will knock some sense into me.

*another generic makeup/skincare MLM, I assume

SiGmA_X
May 3, 2004
SiGmA_X

kimbo305 posted:

I don't quite grasp your anecdote. Do you think the other surgery might have beat 98%? Would you have wanted the surgery if it could do 100%?
In your case, he didn't get more money from your case, right? Or was the PT going to pay him, too?
Is your case an indictment of his "on the up-and-up" status? I couldn't figure that out.
No, I am entirely happy with my decision to not do the surgery and I'm extremely glad he talked me out of it.
He got dramatically less money - whatever the office appointments were worth from insurance, maybe $300/ea, vs many tens of thousands. PT was a referral to a non-associated clinic. Maybe he gave me "special treatment" and decided to not perform a reasonably profitable surgery on me because I was related to one of his operating room nurses? Or OHSU had different standards for him to follow? From the stories of his ~2012+ quality of care, I'm glad I didn't have a case that interested him.

The real story here is lol Oregon PERS is hosed. ~20bn+ unfunded liability woohoo!! http://www.statesmanjournal.com/story/news/politics/2017/11/01/oregon-pers-unfunded-liability-task-force-final-report/823159001/

mandatory lesbian
Dec 18, 2012

Youth Decay posted:

A Bossbabe hits rock bottom and has a spark of fire in her wants


TBH this seems like a pretty good scheme to show someone how much money they aren't making

TLG James
Jun 5, 2000

Questing ain't easy
Do men fall for this poo poo? It seems like every couple of weeks my wife tells me that one of her coworkers is having some party for *insert crap here* and I always tell her to cancel since it's high pressure sales and to just blame me or something.

I just don't really see how it could work on men, with the exception of some of the weight loss stuff.

I would blow Dane Cook
Dec 26, 2008

TLG James posted:

Do men fall for this poo poo? It seems like every couple of weeks my wife tells me that one of her coworkers is having some party for *insert crap here* and I always tell her to cancel since it's high pressure sales and to just blame me or something.

I just don't really see how it could work on men, with the exception of some of the weight loss stuff.

We mostly just use peer pressure for making each other drink more.

mandatory lesbian
Dec 18, 2012

TLG James posted:

Do men fall for this poo poo? It seems like every couple of weeks my wife tells me that one of her coworkers is having some party for *insert crap here* and I always tell her to cancel since it's high pressure sales and to just blame me or something.

I just don't really see how it could work on men, with the exception of some of the weight loss stuff.

This is entirely anecdotal so bear with me on that front, but I distinctly remember being part of some recruiting thing for a knife selling thing like lularoe which had a number of male supporters

I did not buy the knives, which could cut a penny and a belt very well but not once did he show the thing cutting vegetables or fruits or literally anything you'd find in kitchen

Trustworthy
Dec 28, 2004

with catte-like thread
upon our prey we steal

TLG James posted:

Do men fall for this poo poo? It seems like every couple of weeks my wife tells me that one of her coworkers is having some party for *insert crap here* and I always tell her to cancel since it's high pressure sales and to just blame me or something.

I just don't really see how it could work on men, with the exception of some of the weight loss stuff.

Yeah brah it's called bitcoin

(There was that one lovely "Man Cave" MLM that was around for a hot second, but I think I only know about it from an old episode of Bullshit! about MLMs.)

Hot Dog Day #91
Jun 19, 2003

Male oriented MLMs I've experienced (from the "friend trying to recruit me" side) typically involve selling some kind of knife or financial product. Anecdotal, and I'd be interested in hearing about other MLMs that are specifically targeted to men. Do things like those rainbow vacuums qualify? I'd say bitcoin and it's knock offs qualify. But that's not much different than a stock pump-and dump.

Lol when you realize that all of western financial products are an MLM. At least I went to law school, and for only a 200k investment I could earn up to...Oh poo poo

Ashcans
Jan 2, 2006

Let's do the space-time warp again!

There are definitely male-focused MLM schemes. Ones targeted toward women often focus on independence and the ability to work from home on your own time (in addition to sometimes just pitching products like cosmetics or women's clothing). I think that a bunch of male-focused MLMs are nuitrition and supplement focused, and then you get ones that are focused on being a 'salesman' like Cutco.

bob dobbs is dead
Oct 8, 2017

I love peeps
Nap Ghost
aren't the cutco knives the only non-poo poo mlm product?
i mean, victorinox fibroxes are 1/3 the price and a little better quality, but the knives themselves that cutco peeps shill are just... not bad

Hoodwinker
Nov 7, 2005

One of my coworkers admitted recently to spending $10,000 a month for the last 6 months, not knowing how her and her husband could have spent $10k a month for this time, and also admitted that their rent is $2,500 for a house in a nice area (it's possible to pay anywhere from $1,200 to $1,800 to rent a perfectly acceptable apartment) and that they paid $3,500 a month total for puppy training for not one, but two puppies. Where indeed.

Higgy
Jul 6, 2005



Grimey Drawer

TLG James posted:

Do men fall for this poo poo? It seems like every couple of weeks my wife tells me that one of her coworkers is having some party for *insert crap here* and I always tell her to cancel since it's high pressure sales and to just blame me or something.

I just don't really see how it could work on men, with the exception of some of the weight loss stuff.

-Cutco
-BeachBody
-Trump Network (which suckered in my dad for a bit)
-Primerica
-Amway

Any MLM that involves conferences in a Holiday Inn that sells “financial independence” and “look at my yacht” and “the secret to financial success”

BEHOLD: MY CAPE
Jan 11, 2004

Hot Dog Day #91 posted:

Male oriented MLMs I've experienced (from the "friend trying to recruit me" side) typically involve selling some kind of knife or financial product. Anecdotal, and I'd be interested in hearing about other MLMs that are specifically targeted to men. Do things like those rainbow vacuums qualify? I'd say bitcoin and it's knock offs qualify. But that's not much different than a stock pump-and dump.

Lol when you realize that all of western financial products are an MLM. At least I went to law school, and for only a 200k investment I could earn up to...Oh poo poo

Bwahaha this is so correct

Krispy Wafer
Jul 26, 2002

I shouted out "Free the exposed 67"
But they stood on my hair and told me I was fat

Grimey Drawer
MLM scams usually focus on women because women are often underpaid or underemployed. Men don't have that same problem so we get timeshares and day trade.

I think ladies are also more diplomatic at these MLM parties. So they'll visit to be polite and maybe buy one Tupperware container or dildo. I'm trying to imagine the reaction to one my friends inviting the gang over for a Man-Cave party and it's not pretty.

Trustworthy
Dec 28, 2004

with catte-like thread
upon our prey we steal

Krispy Wafer posted:

I'm trying to imagine the reaction to one my friends inviting the gang over for a Man-Cave party and it's not pretty.

Maybe I'm a big ol' dickhead, but MLM involvement is on my shortlist of things that trigger an immediate, comprehensive friendship reevaluation.

howdoesishotweb
Nov 21, 2002
MenLM will be incarnated in the form of DIY beer brewing. You read it here first, kids!

lament.cfg
Dec 28, 2006

we have such posts
to show you




I was 2 or 3 years out of college when I got a call from a friend I hadn't spoken to in as long, letting me know he was in my area and wanted to get lunch (and sell me financial planning services) so I guess that's an analog of MLM poo poo?

Midjack
Dec 24, 2007



Papa John Misty posted:

I was 2 or 3 years out of college when I got a call from a friend I hadn't spoken to in as long, letting me know he was in my area and wanted to get lunch (and sell me financial planning services) so I guess that's an analog of MLM poo poo?

No analog about it, it's an mlm.

bob dobbs is dead
Oct 8, 2017

I love peeps
Nap Ghost
i quit facebook so in order to not be a recluse i set a cronjob to remind me to contact random peeps every so often

i'm surprised that peeps haven't recoilled, expecting me to sell them some mlm poo poo

i considered making the cronjob public and realized it'll prolly be 90% used by mlm peeps

George H.W. Cunt
Oct 6, 2010





I know a lot of dudes that went for Advocare. Only one turned out to be successful with it because he opened a crossfit gym and all his people buy from him. GWM if you are the leader of a cult.

CannonFodder
Jan 26, 2001

Passion’s Wrench

howdoesishotweb posted:

MenLM will be incarnated in the form of DIY beer brewing. You read it here first, kids!

There's a good reason why the homebrew emoticon is a little guy throwing away money

What's that? Attend a conference about how to sell the newest line of home brewing accessories? Where do I sign up?
:homebrew:



I also remember Prepaid Legal stuff being an MLM sounding scam before the great recession.

22 Eargesplitten
Oct 10, 2010



bob dobbs is dead posted:

i quit facebook so in order to not be a recluse i set a cronjob to remind me to contact random peeps every so often

goons.txt

(Actually a pretty good and healthy idea, just funny)

I knew a guy who got involved with Herbalife, haven't heard from him in a long time though.

My dad did the prepaid legal thing during the recession, but he was a customer as a small business owner, so I'm not sure exactly how BWM it was in his case. Not sure where the break-even would be on low level legal advice like contract wording or whatever.

22 Eargesplitten fucked around with this message at 18:12 on Jan 27, 2018

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KingSlime
Mar 20, 2007
Wake up with the Kin-OH GOD WHAT IS THAT?!
Yeah men have always been heavily targeted by pyramid schemes, they've been around since I was a kid and I always appreciated them because I've consistently used it as a flag for garbage humans who never need to come around and get invited to hangout, or interact with me or my loved ones for that matter (partially because some of those said loved ones are susceptible idiots themselves)

They just call them MLM now but it's the same poo poo, different name

I think I first started to grasp how much variance in lucidity and awareness there is between individuals when I realized how much time teenage me spent trying to keep a brother who is ten years my senior away from all sorts of bullshit scams

KingSlime fucked around with this message at 18:25 on Jan 27, 2018

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