Coding Horrors: You can gather all your technical debt into one easy framework!

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Serious Hardware/Software Crap > The Cavern of COBOL > Coding Horrors: You can gather all your technical debt into one easy framework!

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Sedro: Dec 31, 2008

Bongo Bill posted:

This is the opposite of a union. It's a sort of a wonky record whose fields are accessed by interpreting it in a context that expects one primitive or other.

code:

A = "Seven" | 7
B = A + A

And that is how you calculate B = "SevenSeven" | 14

# ? Jan 27, 2018 03:22

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# ? May 25, 2024 07:48

Suspicious Dish: Sep 24, 2011; 2020 is the year of linux on the desktop, bro; Fun Shoe

yeah the dude who wrote the script plugin was a kid who really wanted to write his own programming language and was written over the course of a year

https://cgit.freedesktop.org/plymouth/commit/?id=e564655e13b5ac7f0d4acf37db098cc66bc43958

ray strode, the maintainer of plymouth, is a super chill guy and doesn't deserve this mess of nonsense

# ? Jan 27, 2018 04:47

Edison was a dick: Apr 3, 2010; direct current only

The guy taught one of my modules at university, and gave me my first taste of "hey, it's not too difficult to contribute back to open source projects".
Still an odd bloke. Had a weird obsession with screwball scramble. He left to work at ARM and tried to get me to join.

# ? Jan 27, 2018 10:01

return0: Apr 11, 2007

The Fool posted:

If this guy can build full websites and java apps on this phone you sure as gently caress can type out [code] every once and a while on your lovely smartphone.

This is cool.

# ? Jan 27, 2018 12:07

Doom Mathematic: Sep 2, 2008

Jewel posted:

https://twitter.com/aisamanra/status/956689371947651072

JavaScript code:

const a = {
  toString: () => "Seven",
  valueOf: () => 7
}

const b = String(a).charAt(2) // "v"
const c = 80 + a // 87

# ? Jan 27, 2018 14:37

hackbunny: Jul 22, 2007; I haven't been on SA for years but the person who gave me my previous av as a joke felt guilty for doing so and decided to get me a non-shitty av

Doom Mathematic posted:

JavaScript code:

const a = {
  toString: () => "Seven",
  valueOf: () => 7
}

const b = String(a).charAt(2) // "v"
const c = 80 + a // 87

Yep! I wish more people who used Javascript (or like, any at all) learned this. This is how operators and types work in Javascript, no more, no less

# ? Jan 27, 2018 15:45

Volguus: Mar 3, 2009

hackbunny posted:

Yep! I wish more people who used Javascript (or like, any at all) learned this. This is how operators and types work in Javascript, no more, no less

I wish more people who make programming languages learned that it is an extremely idiotic idea to do this to your built-in types.

# ? Jan 27, 2018 16:11

hackbunny: Jul 22, 2007; I haven't been on SA for years but the person who gave me my previous av as a joke felt guilty for doing so and decided to get me a non-shitty av

Volguus posted:

I wish more people who make programming languages learned that it is an extremely idiotic idea to do this to your built-in types.

Counterpoint: Javascript is an extremely simple language that was created in two weeks and takes even less time to learn - actually learn, not go "it feels like it should work like this, so why doesn't it?", which is even quicker but only leads to tears

# ? Jan 27, 2018 16:20

Volguus: Mar 3, 2009

hackbunny posted:

Counterpoint: Javascript is an extremely simple language that was created in two weeks and takes even less time to learn - actually learn, not go "it feels like it should work like this, so why doesn't it?", which is even quicker but only leads to tears

Hmm, i wonder why all those infinitely long (and growing) "JavaScript Gotchas" lists exist? Oh yes, every single one of them "gotchas" is essentially explained by the fact that Javascript was created in two weeks while high on acid, but normal developers don't think like that during everyday coding. Hence: gotchas. So no, don't do that when you're making a language.

# ? Jan 27, 2018 17:01

Xarn: Jun 26, 2015

All I am seeing is some sort of lovely perl? Or maybe this is where Perl 6 got the newer shittiness from :shrug:

# ? Jan 27, 2018 17:02

hackbunny: Jul 22, 2007; I haven't been on SA for years but the person who gave me my previous av as a joke felt guilty for doing so and decided to get me a non-shitty av

Volguus posted:

Hmm, i wonder why all those infinitely long (and growing) "JavaScript Gotchas" lists exist? Oh yes, every single one of them "gotchas" is essentially explained by the fact that Javascript was created in two weeks while high on acid, but normal developers don't think like that during everyday coding. Hence: gotchas. So no, don't do that when you're making a language.

Maybe stop reading outdated, mutually contradictory articles written by randos and read the language specification instead. Saves a lot of time

# ? Jan 27, 2018 17:03

Eela6: May 25, 2007; Shredded Hen

hackbunny posted:

Maybe stop reading outdated, mutually contradictory articles written by randos and read the language specification instead. Saves a lot of time

I did. Language is bad.

# ? Jan 27, 2018 17:08

Winter Stormer: Oct 17, 2012

hackbunny posted:

Maybe stop reading outdated, mutually contradictory articles written by randos and read the language specification instead. Saves a lot of time

Hmm, I read the language spec, but it turns out that '==' is still a trap operator??

# ? Jan 27, 2018 17:13

Absurd Alhazred: Mar 27, 2010; by Athanatos

ECMA bad, so what?

# ? Jan 27, 2018 17:14

Volguus: Mar 3, 2009

hackbunny posted:

Maybe stop reading outdated, mutually contradictory articles written by randos and read the language specification instead. Saves a lot of time

I tried to. I honestly do not think anyone has ever fully gone through it, not without getting an aneurysm (or maybe those that actually did are no longer with us. That explains so much....). So I stopped reading "specifications" and just went along and did what I had to do, knowing the gotchas (somewhat) all while longing for the day the language will finally die. I may not be alive when that will happen, but I'll surely throw a party wherever I'll be.

# ? Jan 27, 2018 17:24

hackbunny: Jul 22, 2007; I haven't been on SA for years but the person who gave me my previous av as a joke felt guilty for doing so and decided to get me a non-shitty av

Eela6 posted:

I did. Language is bad.

You're still forced to use it :shrug:

. Stop treating your job as a relaxing hobby that still somehow makes a gorillion dollars and take it seriously

# ? Jan 27, 2018 17:26

NiceAaron: Oct 19, 2003; Devote your hearts to the cause~

hackbunny posted:

You're still forced to use it . Stop treating your job as a relaxing hobby that still somehow makes a gorillion dollars and take it seriously

How does acknowledging that Javascript is bad imply that you don't take your job seriously?

# ? Jan 27, 2018 17:30

Absurd Alhazred: Mar 27, 2010; by Athanatos

Some of us don't have to touch JS with a five-foot pole in our jobs. :sweatdrop:

# ? Jan 27, 2018 17:31

Doom Mathematic: Sep 2, 2008

The list of gotchas in JavaScript is not egregiously long and the tools for avoiding those gotchas are getting better every year.

# ? Jan 27, 2018 17:33

Rocko Bonaparte: Mar 12, 2002; Every day is Friday!

Xarn posted:

All I am seeing is some sort of lovely perl? Or maybe this is where Perl 6 got the newer shittiness from

Haha this reminds me in my younger days how eagerly I awaited Perl 6 I the same way I suspect the Soviets awaited Full Communism.

I ended up going to Python, for what it's worth.

# ? Jan 27, 2018 17:38

Eela6: May 25, 2007; Shredded Hen

hackbunny posted:

You're still forced to use it . Stop treating your job as a relaxing hobby that still somehow makes a gorillion dollars and take it seriously

This doesn't follow whatsoever.

# ? Jan 27, 2018 17:39

kitten emergency: Jan 13, 2008; get meow this wack-ass crystal prison

fuckin' objects, how do they work?

# ? Jan 27, 2018 17:41

Absurd Alhazred: Mar 27, 2010; by Athanatos

uncurable mlady posted:

fuckin' objects, how do they work?

I'm personally moving over to subject-oriented programming.

# ? Jan 27, 2018 17:42

repiv: Aug 13, 2009

webassembly host bindings will turn good languages like rust into first class citizens on the web

just hang in there guys, javascripts reign of terror is almost over :yaycloud:

# ? Jan 27, 2018 17:43

hackbunny: Jul 22, 2007; I haven't been on SA for years but the person who gave me my previous av as a joke felt guilty for doing so and decided to get me a non-shitty av

NiceAaron posted:

How does acknowledging that Javascript is bad imply that you don't take your job seriously?

I've yet to see a Javascript programmer calling the language "bad" and proving they understand the language they're using, rather than treating it as a convenient way to glue libraries together

# ? Jan 27, 2018 18:36

hackbunny: Jul 22, 2007; I haven't been on SA for years but the person who gave me my previous av as a joke felt guilty for doing so and decided to get me a non-shitty av

repiv posted:

webassembly host bindings

What a shockingly bad idea. As if Javascript JITs hadn't proven to be enough of a security and privacy nightmare

# ? Jan 27, 2018 18:39

repiv: Aug 13, 2009

I don't get it, how is letting WASM modules call into Web APIs any more of a security/privacy nightmare than letting Javascript call into Web APIs.

# ? Jan 27, 2018 18:44

Thermopyle: Jul 1, 2003; ...the stupid are cocksure while the intelligent are full of doubt. �Bertrand Russell

Javascript is fine. I mean, you just spend a bit of time learning its pitfalls and then you go on and do your job.

The one thing that I can see is the fact that sometimes you have to work with people who didn't spend the time learning its gotchas, but I actively avoid getting into that situation!

# ? Jan 27, 2018 18:49

hackbunny: Jul 22, 2007; I haven't been on SA for years but the person who gave me my previous av as a joke felt guilty for doing so and decided to get me a non-shitty av

repiv posted:

I don't get it, how is letting WASM modules call into Web APIs any more of a security/privacy nightmare than letting Javascript call into Web APIs.

You say "higher performance", I hear "more reliable side channel exploitation". "Sandbox" and even "virtual machine", these days, are just synonyms for "minor inconvenience"

We will regret going for performance before correctness and security have caught up

Thermopyle posted:

Javascript is fine. I mean, you just spend a bit of time learning its pitfalls and then you go on and do your job.

The one thing that I can see is the fact that sometimes you have to work with people who didn't spend the time learning its gotchas, but I actively avoid getting into that situation!

Javascript's greatest flaw is its syntax. It doesn't look anything like its semantics and in fact both it and the "Java" in the name seem to actively deceive you into misunderstanding the language

hackbunny fucked around with this message at 18:57 on Jan 27, 2018

# ? Jan 27, 2018 18:51

Spatial: Nov 15, 2007

hackbunny posted:

It doesn't look anything like its semantics and in fact both it and the "Java" in the name seem to actively deceive you into misunderstanding the language

Working as intended

# ? Jan 27, 2018 18:56

Eela6: May 25, 2007; Shredded Hen

hackbunny posted:

Javascript's greatest flaw is its syntax. It doesn't look anything like its semantics and in fact both it and the "Java" in the name seem to actively deceive you into misunderstanding the language

I feel like there's some word we could use to describe something with deeply flawed syntax which actively impedes the developer's understanding of it.

What about "bad"?

# ? Jan 27, 2018 18:59

Jeb Bush 2012: Apr 4, 2007; A mathematician, like a painter or poet, is a maker of patterns. If his patterns are more permanent than theirs, it is because they are made with ideas.

hackbunny posted:

Counterpoint: Javascript is an extremely simple language that was created in two weeks and takes even less time to learn - actually learn, not go "it feels like it should work like this, so why doesn't it?", which is even quicker but only leads to tears

hackbunny posted:

You're still forced to use it . Stop treating your job as a relaxing hobby that still somehow makes a gorillion dollars and take it seriously

these are not the posts someone defending a good language would make

# ? Jan 27, 2018 19:01

Thermopyle: Jul 1, 2003; ...the stupid are cocksure while the intelligent are full of doubt. �Bertrand Russell

I feel like there's more options than "good" and "bad".

# ? Jan 27, 2018 19:02

Eela6: May 25, 2007; Shredded Hen

Thermopyle posted:

I feel like there's more options than "good" and "bad".

JavaScript is tolerable. Its better than C++ and plenty of good programming is done in both languages. If I need to write JavaScript for my job, I will grouse a little bit and then proceed to write JavaScript (or typescript if possible), because I am a professional.

It's the hot take of 'JavaScript is Good, Actually' that's the true coding horror.

# ? Jan 27, 2018 19:06

hackbunny: Jul 22, 2007; I haven't been on SA for years but the person who gave me my previous av as a joke felt guilty for doing so and decided to get me a non-shitty av

Conversely, I'm really enjoying Swift. I especially like that, unlike C, C++ and Java, which it superficially resembles like many other languages, it doesn't shy away from having a ton of keywords and adding more as needed, instead of overloading the existing ones (just how many meanings does "static" have in C++?)

It's not without its horrors though. A few days ago, I found out that Swift's sweet copy-on-write feature for containers is not thread safe :psyduck:

You took pains to keep your class's internal list or dictionary immutable and only exposing it as a read-only property? Any two random idiots that receive the container instance can make a writable copy of it, and as soon as they write to their copies at the same time in different threads, who the hell knows what will happen. Heap corruption? sure, why the hell not. Have fun going through your code and manually making copies of every single container returned by methods, properties or callbacks on the off-chance that someone "misuses" them

# ? Jan 27, 2018 19:08

Suspicious Dish: Sep 24, 2011; 2020 is the year of linux on the desktop, bro; Fun Shoe

repiv posted:

webassembly host bindings will turn good languages like rust into first class citizens on the web

just hang in there guys, javascripts reign of terror is almost over

hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha no

the current host-bindings spec proposes to leak memory forever because it can only track one lost object.

# ? Jan 27, 2018 19:10

Thermopyle: Jul 1, 2003; ...the stupid are cocksure while the intelligent are full of doubt. �Bertrand Russell

Eela6 posted:

It's the hot take of 'JavaScript is Good, Actually' that's the true coding horror.

Well there's also the 'JavaScript is terrible poo poo and I'd literally die if I had to use it' coding horror.

# ? Jan 27, 2018 19:10

NiceAaron: Oct 19, 2003; Devote your hearts to the cause~

Having so many pitfalls and gotchas makes Javascript bad compared to other languages which have fewer pitfalls and gotchas. Obviously Javascript is not irredeemably bad, otherwise we wouldn't all still be using it. And obviously a good programmer can avoid the pitfalls and gotchas and produce great results despite the flaws in the language. But you have to acknowledge the flaws in the tools you use.

# ? Jan 27, 2018 19:10

hackbunny: Jul 22, 2007; I haven't been on SA for years but the person who gave me my previous av as a joke felt guilty for doing so and decided to get me a non-shitty av

Eela6 posted:

It's the hot take of 'JavaScript is Good, Actually' that's the true coding horror.

"Javascript is a fact of life for a web developer" is my thesis and as something that's been true and inescapable for 20+ years and counting (I learned Javascript in 1998 and it already had the "pitfalls" of toString, valueOf, no such thing as local variables etc.), I feel safe in defending it

# ? Jan 27, 2018 19:11

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# ? May 25, 2024 07:48

Suspicious Dish: Sep 24, 2011; 2020 is the year of linux on the desktop, bro; Fun Shoe

the real horror is people thinking that the number of warts / gotchas in javascript is any greater than what's in, say, python

# ? Jan 27, 2018 19:11

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Serious Hardware/Software Crap > The Cavern of COBOL > Coding Horrors: You can gather all your technical debt into one easy framework!

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