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PT6A posted:It seems like this program needs to be utterly liquidated, and probably never allowed to reform. The sheer depth and breadth of heinous behaviour and coverups is such that the permanent annihilation of the program, whatever bad consequences it might have, is absolutely for the best. I find this line of thinking useless. Not because I give a poo poo whether MSU Athletics is wiped off the face of the earth or not, but because it takes our focus away from the people that did this and puts the onus on the institution. There are a very specific group of people that are responsible for everything that has gone on. They need to be investigated and charged and brought to justice. There needs to be no mercy. But the Michigan State Athletic Department didn’t do anything. The people who make it up did. They deserve the blame. They deserve the consequences.
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Jan 27, 2018 19:47
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Mahoning posted:I find this line of thinking useless. Not because I give a poo poo whether MSU Athletics is wiped off the face of the earth or not, but because it takes our focus away from the people that did this and puts the onus on the institution. The counter to that would be that institutions as a structure enable people to cover things up this way.
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Jan 27, 2018 19:51
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Mahoning posted:I find this line of thinking useless. Not because I give a poo poo whether MSU Athletics is wiped off the face of the earth or not, but because it takes our focus away from the people that did this and puts the onus on the institution. It is both a series of acts by individual people, and a systemic problem at the institutional level, and both the individuals and the institution need to be held responsible. Look at de-Nazification in Germany. It found and punished a whole shitton of Nazis, but it went beyond finding individual Nazis onto utterly destroying the structures that allowed those individuals to do what they did, down to a prohibition on Nazi iconography that persists to this day. I'm not saying that allowing 200 people to be raped is quite as bad as killing twelve million people, but I don't see a reason it's not sufficiently bad to merit the same general line of thinking when it comes to assigning institutional responsibility.
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Jan 27, 2018 19:52
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The "very specific group" is the leadership of an institution spending at least two decades (that we're aware of) developing a legal strategy to preempt any ability to investigate hundreds of rapes (that we're aware of) perpetrated by members of that institution. That's not specific at all. That's general. The more I find out about this the more I'm coming around very loving strongly to stone cold's views.
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Jan 27, 2018 19:54
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Mahoning posted:I find this line of thinking useless. Not because I give a poo poo whether MSU Athletics is wiped off the face of the earth or not, but because it takes our focus away from the people that did this and puts the onus on the institution. The two aren't exclusive, everyone involved goes to the wall, the program is liquidated.
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Jan 27, 2018 19:55
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Willie Tomg posted:The more I find out about this the more I'm coming around very loving strongly to stone cold's views.
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Jan 27, 2018 20:02
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Henchman of Santa posted:The counter to that would be that institutions as a structure enable people to cover things up this way. The rape culture on US college campuses is hardly unique to MSU or MSU Athletics. Are you advocating that we eliminate all colleges and universities? (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Jan 27, 2018 20:10
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Mahoning posted:The rape culture on US college campuses is hardly unique to MSU or MSU Athletics. Are you advocating that we eliminate all colleges and universities? *looks at OP* well, yes, at least with their sports programs. I bet local cops will have less incentive to help with coverups if it's just some rear end in a top hat kid instead of Superstar Recruit #2398
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Jan 27, 2018 20:15
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Mahoning posted:The rape culture on US college campuses is hardly unique to MSU or MSU Athletics. Are you advocating that we eliminate all colleges and universities? I mean, uh, if they are basically big rape factories it might be a net gain?
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Jan 27, 2018 20:18
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Mahoning posted:The rape culture on US college campuses is hardly unique to MSU or MSU Athletics. Are you advocating that we eliminate all colleges and universities? Yes. Destroy fortresses of rape culture.
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Jan 27, 2018 20:18
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It's not like you can't... I dunno, build new ones. Different people, different organizations, different founding principles. Pretty standard regime change.
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Jan 27, 2018 20:18
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Them, dumb and hysterical: women get raped more than they get educated in college! We should get rid of or fundamentally reform college Me, smart and rational: but I got an excellent computer science education in college. Are you seriously suggesting a few rapes are more important then my future?
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Jan 27, 2018 20:20
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Yeah I mean if you start with the assumption that this is normal for college then I don't really see how you come to the conclusion that they can be allowed to continue? It might not affect you but it would seem to affect a shitload of other people?
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Jan 27, 2018 20:22
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OwlFancier posted:Yeah I mean if you start with the assumption that this is normal for college then I don't really see how you come to the conclusion that they can be allowed to continue? It might not affect you but it would seem to affect a shitload of other people? Yeah, I am the only one of my friends to make it out of college without being raped, and we all went to a tiny Midwestern college with no Athletics to speak of. Institutional reputation is more than enough to motivate these schools to hide assaults and the only way to fix it is to immediately shut down any school that is caught and send its students elsewhere.
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Jan 27, 2018 20:25
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Mahoning posted:The rape culture on US college campuses is hardly unique to MSU or MSU Athletics. Are you advocating that we eliminate all colleges and universities? If you read literally any of my posts you can see I haven't advocated that at all
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Jan 27, 2018 20:28
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Mahoning posted:I find this line of thinking useless. Not because I give a poo poo whether MSU Athletics is wiped off the face of the earth or not, but because it takes our focus away from the people that did this and puts the onus on the institution. counterpoint: the institution is bad e: joke take: MSU alum spotted
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Jan 27, 2018 23:02
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The Michigan AG has announced a special prosecutor to investigate MSU. The Michigan State Police (the state-wide cops, not the campus police) will assist in the investigation. https://www.freep.com/story/news/lo...ate/1071889001/ The Lt. Governor has said he thinks MSU should stop fighting the lawsuits and pay up for a victim compensation fund. This is the same Lt. Gov who was (and still is) fighting lawsuits against the state for the Flint crisis. https://www.freep.com/story/news/lo...its/1071856001/
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Jan 27, 2018 23:59
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Friendly reminder that Woody Hayes, considered one of the greatest College Football coaches of all time, was a complete psychopath who had meltdowns and assaulted numerous people on national TV yet didn't get shitcanned as a coach until he blatantly sucker punched Charlie Bauman after Bauman intercepted the ball. Also Bobby Knight had a career in commentating after a Hall of Fame College Basketball coaching career that included numerous player assaults and being an all around nutbar. All college sports folks are bastards.
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Jan 28, 2018 05:29
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Remove every college sport except for Women's Basketball
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Jan 28, 2018 05:49
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Horseshoe theory posted:Friendly reminder that Woody Hayes, considered one of the greatest College Football coaches of all time, was a complete psychopath who had meltdowns and assaulted numerous people on national TV yet didn't get shitcanned as a coach until he blatantly sucker punched Charlie Bauman after Bauman intercepted the ball. Also Bobby Knight had a career in commentating after a Hall of Fame College Basketball coaching career that included numerous player assaults and being an all around nutbar. this is like, all coaches ever. My highschool track coach stopped talking to me, even though I was a captain, because I had to get leg surgery (I was not a fan of him) and would regularly berate pretty much everyone on the team, and my swim coach, before my time when he had apparently calmed down, would throw chairs and stuff into the lanes if he wasn't happy with how the top group was performing that day (was actually a huge fan of him).
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Jan 28, 2018 07:07
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Just watched the hour long E:60, and drat it was hard to watch. Made me feel sick. I'm full scorched Earth on this. Draw and quarter the whole administration, stop any and all public funding of the university, disband their athletic program and glass the entirety of East Lansing for good measure.
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Jan 28, 2018 16:07
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https://twitter.com/NBCNews/status/958738519605809154
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Jan 31, 2018 17:28
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Jesus christ how were there so many https://twitter.com/cnni/status/958780701381480449
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Jan 31, 2018 20:18
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SKULL.GIF posted:Jesus christ how were there so many quote:Larry Nassar appeared Wednesday in a Michigan courtroom for the start of his final sentencing hearing, and a judge said that a total of 265 people have come forward to declare that they were abused by the disgraced former gymnastics doctor. At this point I think it's reasonable to think 500+. And 'no one knew.' Yeah right.
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Jan 31, 2018 20:27
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mastershakeman posted:At this point I think it's reasonable to think 500+. And 'no one knew.' Yeah right. In hellworld, "no one knew" is actually "everyone knew".
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Jan 31, 2018 20:29
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SKULL.GIF posted:Jesus christ how were there so many And only one man in a (frankly) minor sport. I am supremely curious what something like Alabama's football team covers up on a yearly basis.
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Jan 31, 2018 20:32
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Triangle Shirt Factotum posted:And only one man in a (frankly) minor sport. I am supremely curious what something like Alabama's football team covers up on a yearly basis. An argument could be made that 'Bama could be one of the cleaner programs around if they chose because if some five-star recruit gets arrested, there are ten more waiting to replace him. (They're probably as shady as any other program, but it's a thing to consider) The real dirt is found in places like Baylor and Michigan St because they can't afford to lose multiple starters without the on-field product taking a huge hit. That means everyone's job from the positions coach to the head coach to the athletic director is at stake, and they're all incentivized to just keep winning at any cost. It really is amazing that Michigan St has managed to combine the worst facets of the Penn St and Baylor scandals into one gigantic pot of hornet nest stew. One would hope that if anything could spur the NCAA or even the Big Ten to action, it'd be this. nothing will be done, we live in hell now
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Jan 31, 2018 21:07
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SKULL.GIF posted:In hellworld, "no one knew" is actually "everyone knew". "Bad child! You evil thing, how dare you say something so disgusting! Larry Nassar is a doctor and one of the most respected men in the field! I'm so shocked you would think to make up such lies!" etc Change the name and you get the standard response many children faced when trying to tell an adult about abuse by someone powerful. And those who did actually realise what he was didn't care.
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Feb 1, 2018 06:29
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quote:Olympics Committee Failed to Act on Nassar’s Alleged Abuse for a Full Year cool. great. mastershakeman fucked around with this message at 21:47 on Feb 1, 2018 |
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Feb 1, 2018 21:45
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 Boycott the Olympics. They let the Russians back in as well. It's a joke.
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Feb 1, 2018 22:38
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https://twitter.com/HonoredSpirit/status/959181972714205184
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Feb 1, 2018 23:07
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Honestly that defense attorney probably legitimately doesn't know whether to poo poo or go blind over this case. Like, where can she even begin attempting to do her job regarding this guy?
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Feb 2, 2018 00:40
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Order the USAF to bomb the Olympics imo.
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Feb 2, 2018 00:50
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Willie Tomg posted:Honestly that defense attorney probably legitimately doesn't know whether to poo poo or go blind over this case. Like, where can she even begin attempting to do her job regarding this guy? Since he pled guilty, shouldn't her job be to basically just sit there and say "yes, your honor" a few times?
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Feb 2, 2018 01:45
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Arglebargle III posted:Order the USAF to bomb the Olympics imo. Unfortunately the USAF will be too busy ignoring allegations of sexual assault to take on this mission. https://www.cbsnews.com/news/air-force-academy-sexual-assault-former-official-alleges-cover-up/
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Feb 2, 2018 03:02
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Order the US Army to bomb the USAF for not bombing the Olympics IMO.
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Feb 2, 2018 04:34
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Arglebargle III posted:Order the US Army to bomb the USAF for not bombing the Olympics IMO. Order the Navy to...oh, right.
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Feb 2, 2018 11:49
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Order the Girl Guides to bomb every other organisation in history imo
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Feb 2, 2018 12:49
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A father of three victims tried to take Nassar out at his sentencing hearing this morning but got restrained by deputies
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Feb 2, 2018 15:37
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https://twitter.com/OTLonESPN/status/959433133069398016
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Feb 2, 2018 15:38
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