|
Dick Burglar posted:There is, it's called Dragon King, but you have to be a Dark Sun character because it requires arcane defiling. Avangion is the preserver equivalent and only requires an arcane class so anybody could theoretically pick it up. Avangion is fantastic on a charisma paladin who MCs into Bard or something, since it's Cha/Wis boosts, permanent flight, radiant admixture on all of your attacks, a healing/buffing/radiant vulnerability boosting aura and an at-will line of sight lay on hands that already comes with most of the lay-on-hands boosters (uses your surge value, adds your ability mod to amount healed) with the only (minor) downside being that it triggers when you or an ally hits 0 (still great for a save, but doesn't let you preemptively heal someone). You're also unaging, gain a bonus to death saves and function as a light source, yay? There's also Pyreen if you're primal, but boy is that one a destiny that doesn't do much for anyone who easily qualifies for it.
|
#
?
Jan 25, 2018 01:06
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 9, 2024 11:29 |
|
|
SunAndSpring posted:Nah the Lawful Evil vs Chaotic Evil slap-fight going on in the past editions was campy and fun. Primordial vs astral just sounds boring. It was terrible, especially because the Law vs. Chaos alignment axis itself was totally meaningless.
|
|
#
?
Jan 25, 2018 01:10
|
|
|
I started an ongoing damage warlock thing a while back but never finished it. I should dig that out.
|
|
#
?
Jan 25, 2018 01:13
|
|
|
Dick Burglar posted:Ongoing damage kind of sucks in 4E because it relies on 1) the target not saving and 2) combat to last long enough to get good use out of it. 4E combat is best when it only lasts a handful of rounds, because each round takes forever already. 4E combat also waaaaaaaay favors burst damage, because the best form of control is "dead"; an enemy who will take 10 damage at the end of its turn can still attack until it hits 0 hit points. Agreed to all, but I must know for science
|
|
#
?
Jan 25, 2018 01:14
|
|
|
PMush Perfect posted:Instead of doing something productive, I hammered out a rough prototype for what a good DoT class might look like. No points for guessing what classes I based its effects on.
|
|
#
?
Jan 25, 2018 01:17
|
|
|
The blood war was cool because the axis was meaningless, it was a scam by some other evil and it got bought into by angels and the like because hey, it keeps evil out. Plus, all of the notable demonlords are shown to be above it and able to rise to power because of that fact.
|
|
#
?
Jan 25, 2018 01:48
|
|
|
dont even fink about it posted:Agreed to all, but I must know for science Da Bleeder uses Ranger instead of Rogue, might be able to adapt it.
|
|
#
?
Jan 25, 2018 01:57
|
|
Kurieg posted:There's another one, Avangion just gives you dragon wings made out of light. The one I'm thinking of gives you a daily power that lets you turn into a great wyrm for the rest of that combat.
|
|
|
#
?
Jan 25, 2018 03:22
|
|
|
Kurieg posted:There's another one, Avangion just gives you dragon wings made out of light. The one I'm thinking of gives you a daily power that lets you turn into a great wyrm for the rest of that combat. Yeah that's a sorcerer power I believe. I know because I used it on a bard, and then killed a monster by dancing merrily on it while a green dragon.
|
|
#
?
Jan 25, 2018 03:44
|
|
|
Moriatti posted:The blood war was cool because the axis was meaningless, it was a scam by some other evil and it got bought into by angels and the like because hey, it keeps evil out. You can still have the blood war without the alignment axis though. Give them any reason to fight each other and it's the same effect.
|
|
#
?
Jan 25, 2018 03:52
|
|
|
I'm not trying to be a dick when I say that I don't understand how anyone can think the Great Wheel is good.
|
|
|
#
?
Jan 25, 2018 04:00
|
|
|
Dick Burglar posted:You can still have the blood war without the alignment axis though. Give them any reason to fight each other and it's the same effect. It wouldn't really be the blood war if there was an actual reason for it.
|
|
#
?
Jan 25, 2018 04:00
|
|
|
Who says the new reason has to be a good one? poo poo, you can just say "the devils and demons hate each other, so they fight" and that would be perfectly acceptable.
|
|
#
?
Jan 25, 2018 04:03
|
|
|
Dick Burglar posted:You can still have the blood war without the alignment axis though. Give them any reason to fight each other and it's the same effect. In fact there was a blood war in the PoL.
|
|
#
?
Jan 25, 2018 04:05
|
|
Lurdiak posted:I'm not trying to be a dick when I say that I don't understand how anyone can think the Great Wheel is good. I dunno, the Astral Sea just came across as the planes but on water instead of in a circle. Didn't really seem more interesting and it lost that old goofy D&D charm that the dumb alignment planes had. Elemental Chaos was better than the lovely Elemental Planes of old, although I like the 5th edition take on it all better since you can have, like, grades of how watery, firey, or whatever you want poo poo to be and you can have actual adventures on the loving plane without having to cast a million spells on yourselves to do it. It doesn't have to all look like the elemental equivalent of throwing a burrito at a windshield like the Elemental Chaos. Mechanically though the Great Wheel sucked loving balls and you basically had to remove most of the incredibly stupid poo poo like the magic spells working differently per plane or magic items losing +1s depending on plane. SunAndSpring fucked around with this message at 04:24 on Jan 25, 2018 |
|
|
#
?
Jan 25, 2018 04:19
|
|
|
Lurdiak posted:I'm not trying to be a dick when I say that I don't understand how anyone can think the Great Wheel is good. Forget alignment, a lot of the planes made for awesome adventure locations. The main problem Planescape had was that basically everywhere outside Sigil required that you had a ton of high-level magic preparations, or you just couldn't survive. (Likewise every single monster had magic resistance, immunity to weapons, etc. etc. as a matter of course.) Of course, on that note, I always had a soft spot for the Inner Planes--especially Radiance, which is weird because it only got like two pages of material at most in 2nd edition. But something about the idea of an endless world of color and light just really speaks to me. (And the Ethereal Plane is basically my favorite concept in the whole setting--just exploring into the literal primordial soup and endless worlds with impossible physics.) Basically Planescape just has a lot of potential and I still love it to this day.
|
|
#
?
Jan 25, 2018 04:40
|
|
|
Reading through The Slaying Stone now and Rort the goblin is the best.
|
|
#
?
Jan 26, 2018 23:29
|
|
|
Hey, is the 4e Tomb of Horrors adventure book any good? I never hear anyone talk about it.
|
|
|
#
?
Jan 28, 2018 04:55
|
|
|
Lurdiak posted:Hey, is the 4e Tomb of Horrors adventure book any good? I never hear anyone talk about it. Assuming you mean the "re-imagining" and not the straight remake, I'm starting it tomorrow for my group. We just finished the "Orcus Conversion" of H1-3, and rather than continue with the conversion of the P-series modules, I'm slotting in the Tomb of Horrors stuff for Paragon Tier, then back to the E-series stuff to finish.
|
|
#
?
Jan 28, 2018 05:04
|
|
Dagon posted:Assuming you mean the "re-imagining" and not the straight remake, I'm starting it tomorrow for my group. We just finished the "Orcus Conversion" of H1-3, and rather than continue with the conversion of the P-series modules, I'm slotting in the Tomb of Horrors stuff for Paragon Tier, then back to the E-series stuff to finish. I mean the official paragon tier adventure module that they put out that's like a sequel to the original adventure. Not the horrendous conversion of the original that someone put online.
|
|
|
#
?
Jan 28, 2018 05:10
|
|
|
Lurdiak posted:I mean the official paragon tier adventure module that they put out that's like a sequel to the original adventure. Not the horrendous conversion of the original that someone put online. That's the one. Looks good to me, at least.
|
|
#
?
Jan 28, 2018 05:15
|
|
|
I played through the first third of it I think as a player? It was fine for a premade adventure. I enjoyed what we managed to get through.
|
|
#
?
Jan 28, 2018 09:14
|
|
|
Dagon posted:Assuming you mean the "re-imagining" and not the straight remake, I'm starting it tomorrow for my group. We just finished the "Orcus Conversion" of H1-3, and rather than continue with the conversion of the P-series modules, I'm slotting in the Tomb of Horrors stuff for Paragon Tier, then back to the E-series stuff to finish. Also you will definitely need to invent an entire stat block for Orcus unless someone, somewhere on the internet has done it for you.
|
|
#
?
Jan 29, 2018 19:16
|
|
|
Isn't Orcus in MM2?
|
|
#
?
Jan 29, 2018 19:58
|
|
|
dwarf74 posted:Just your obligatory notice that the E-series is Real Bad. The conversion stuff to tie the adventures together updates the monster math too: http://web.comhem.se/mwester/Shadowfell/Documents/E3_Orcus_Conversion.pdf Is there more I should watch out for (in like 3 years when I get there)?
|
|
#
?
Jan 29, 2018 20:57
|
|
|
Dagon posted:The conversion stuff to tie the adventures together updates the monster math too: http://web.comhem.se/mwester/Shadowfell/Documents/E3_Orcus_Conversion.pdf Moriatti posted:Isn't Orcus in MM2?
|
|
#
?
Jan 29, 2018 21:04
|
|
|
Oh, I figured it'd be in MM2 and could just get hit with a math fix. I might be running an FMA game in this system as a result of a group chat. Other than being more action oriented than the show, are there any other pitfalls I should be aware of? EDIT: Meant 2, typed 1 because my brain. Moriatti fucked around with this message at 21:35 on Jan 29, 2018 |
|
#
?
Jan 29, 2018 21:24
|
|
|
Dagon posted:The conversion stuff to tie the adventures together updates the monster math too: http://web.comhem.se/mwester/Shadowfell/Documents/E3_Orcus_Conversion.pdf As-written, he's going to get curb-stomped. He's way better than the MM1 write-up, but he won't be able to keep up with the kinds of jacked-up tricks that even moderately-optimized 30th-level parties can lay out. He's following the MM3 guidelines properly, near as I can tell; I'm saying they're not enough. (1) His "Solo" turn, at Init+10, requires him to move to be any good. Any party with a half-decent Defender will be able to lock this down pretty easy. (Wait - he can teleport. Maybe it can work okay, but I'd still let him juggernaut here more freely.) (2) His power moves all recharge only on a 6. He's not going to have that long. (3) His damage - while correct for MM3 - would be too low for an actual level 30 4e party to care much about. His main Melee attack is dealing an average of about 52 damage. Adding 35 to it would keep pace with the Level 1 Damage Forever calcs for a Brute of his level. (This is about 1/2 the HP of a Controller/Leader, or 1/3 for a Defender.) His other attacks' damages should be increased, as well. (4) He can be stun-locked really easily by any party with a Controller. Daze/Stun/Dominate can still kill his turns. His resistances to those conditions just aren't sufficient for the kind of threat which he should pose. Additionally, there's all kinds of other jacked-up conditions he will get hit by, like a -10 to all attacks and whatnot. A mechanic like saving throws at the start of his actual turn (even if a save isn't normally allowed) would probably suffice. (5) Action economy will be a major hurdle. He has a free pre-turn, and nice Triggered actions (if he's not dazed or whatever), but he's not doing near enough on his turn. Now, keep in mind, I don't know what else the party will be facing here. If the environment and any allies are enough, then coolio. Anyway. My basic philosophy with Level 30 characters is "throw literally anything at them, even if it's pretty unfair, because you need bullshit to counter their bullshit." e: Moriatti posted:Oh, I figured it'd be in MM1 and could just get hit with a math fix. dwarf74 fucked around with this message at 21:28 on Jan 29, 2018 |
|
#
?
Jan 29, 2018 21:26
|
|
|
Tell us, for us nerds who got in late enough to only have the Vault?
|
|
#
?
Jan 30, 2018 01:10
|
|
Moriatti posted:I might be running an FMA game in this system as a result of a group chat. I'm not sure there's a lot of rules support for teenage angst and libertarian moralizing.
|
|
|
#
?
Jan 30, 2018 01:12
|
|
|
PMush Perfect posted:Tell us, for us nerds who got in late enough to only have the Vault? The Purple Worm is a Solo monster, but its only abilities are three different Standard Action attacks, which means it's going to get overwhelmed on the action economy very easily. It has two Action Points, but those are going to be consumed easily. Basically, any Solo that's going to be a convincing threat to anyone is going to want one Standard Action per player, if not one full Initiative cycle per player. The later MM Solo designs kind of hint at this with attacks that are Minor Actions, effectively giving the monster two attacks per turn, but you can also throw the structure out the window entirely and just give them more turns, period.
|
|
#
?
Jan 30, 2018 04:02
|
|
|
Right. Here's the stat block: It is about the most boring epic-tier encounter possible, even ignoring the various math issues which become even more pronounced at this level. The MV's design is fine through probably mid-Paragon or maybe a bit higher, or at least it's trending towards fine. The "dragon action" - which MV dragons use, and this version of Orcus - is decent enough for starters, but it's still not enough. This Orcus has a few potential ways to make an impact - he has a necrotic aura, he might make his minions pop back up after they drop (I can't tell precisely; that's encounter design right there, and I don't know it), he has a 'dragon action', a minor action attack, and a solid Immediate action (three really but he can only use 1, which is a problem). And IMHO he still doesn't deal enough damage with all of that put together for a Level 30 party, his special moves are gonna see use probably twice at most, his condition resistances are linked to specific named conditions, and he's still quite vulnerable to stun-locking by a capable party. I will make specific suggestions - what I'd do for my own party - but at this level even with 4e's tight design, solos need to be tweaked for your specific group's capabilities. * Increase all damages to Level 1 Forever numbers. Don't give -25% "credit" for AoE; motherfucker is a solo, and should be treated that way. * gently caress it, increase his Aura to 30 Fire+Necrotic (or 50 Fire+Necrotic when bloodied/stage 3 out to double range) * As No Action at the start of any turn, he can drop an undead minion within 20 squares to remove a condition. (this may need tweaked for the specific encounter) * Give him 2 thresholds at 1/3 and 2/3 HP. At each one, he removes all conditions, teleports, recharges all abilities, and does something cool like raise a bunch of minions or become immune to all attacks for a round or do a big nuke of some kind or something. * Make Fist of Orcus a Standard Basic action, give him some kind of decent basic Close Burst (1 target) attack, and give him a Standard action that lets him use 2-3 basic attacks. * Specifically note that Vile Snatch doesn't provoke Opportunity Attacks. dwarf74 fucked around with this message at 06:08 on Jan 30, 2018 |
|
#
?
Jan 30, 2018 04:52
|
|
|
It's good to be playing 4e after months off. Although I may have inspired the DM to raise the difficulty of combat a little; adding a bravura warlord to a party with three martial characters and a paladin with a good MBA when we have a house rule for an action point every combat has apparently turned a solid party into an utterly lethal one. Brash Assault with harlequin style, a sanction-happy paladin, and a ranged rogue is especially lethal - and I've also inspired our artful dodger to deliberately provoke opportunity attacks by marked targets.
|
|
#
?
Jan 31, 2018 03:26
|
|
|
Brash Assault+Harlequin is fun but your DM could just... not take the incentive, which leaves BA roughly as effective as a... Basic Attack, and IIRC Harlequin doesn't force the issue, just makes it safer. The other attack grants in the PHB and the MP2 are better anyways, but I'm glad you're having a blast with Bravura Warlords because they're my favorite kind of Warlord 
|
|
#
?
Jan 31, 2018 04:19
|
|
|
NachtSieger posted:Brash Assault+Harlequin is fun but your DM could just... not take the incentive, which leaves BA roughly as effective as a... Basic Attack, and IIRC Harlequin doesn't force the issue, just makes it safer. The other attack grants in the PHB and the MP2 are better anyways, but I'm glad you're having a blast with Bravura Warlords because they're my favorite kind of Warlord If the DM doesn't take the bait (and some don't) then BA+Harlequin is, paradoxically enough, a tanking at will that gives me a bonus to all defenses against that target until the start of my next turn. I've already got Direct the Strike as my other at will, leaving only Commander's Strike.
|
|
#
?
Jan 31, 2018 10:20
|
|
|
as a DM I always forgot what special reactions and abilities the players had, such that I'd always take the "bait" of an ability at least once per session. The players seemed to like it though!
|
|
#
?
Jan 31, 2018 10:35
|
|
|
Alright. Thinking of getting back in the 4E DMing game. But unfortunately back when I initially DMed in 2010 I leaned heavily on DDi's character and encounter builders. And now both those tools are under a pile of WotC's digital garbage. I don't want to pay for unsupported tools on outdated software. The resources on the front page have my encounter needs covered but I can not find a character builder there. Am i missing something? Is that a thing that can be found?
|
|
#
?
Feb 3, 2018 03:45
|
|
|
ChrisBTY posted:Alright. Thinking of getting back in the 4E DMing game.
|
|
#
?
Feb 3, 2018 04:06
|
|
|
This discord has a channel devoted to 4e support. https://discord.gg/GQRz7pT Hop in and say hello.
|
|
#
?
Feb 3, 2018 06:56
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 9, 2024 11:29 |
|
|
PMush Perfect posted:The offline CBuilder is what everyone uses now, and I think there's still people who have complete Masterplan libraries floating around, too. I'd say they'd probably appear in your PMs, but you don't have them. Drop an e-mail address, see what kind goon can help. Boy, those sure would be cool things to show up in someone's PMs, sure would.
|
|
#
?
Feb 3, 2018 07:06
|
|
