DEVILMAN CRYBABY

The Something Awful Forums > The Finer Arts > VEGETA > DEVILMAN CRYBABY

Aurora: Jan 7, 2008

Pener Kropoopkin posted:

Nope. I disagreed with strictly defined interpretations in a story that is intentionally open-ended. The only thing I denied is that it's impossible to make alternative interpretations.

miko is a lesbian miko is a lesbian miko is a lesbian miko is a lesbian miko is a lesbian miko is a lesbian miko is a lesbian miko is a lesbian miko is a lesbian miko is a lesbian miko is a lesbian miko is a lesbian miko is a lesbian miko is a lesbian miko is a lesbian miko is a lesbian miko is a lesbian miko is a lesbian miko is a lesbian miko is a lesbian miko is a lesbian miko is a lesbian miko is a lesbian miko is a lesbian miko is a lesbian miko is a lesbian miko is a lesbian miko is a lesbian miko is a lesbian miko is a lesbian miko is a lesbian miko is a lesbian miko is a lesbian miko is a lesbian miko is a lesbian miko is a lesbian miko is a lesbian miko is a lesbian miko is a lesbian miko is a lesbian miko is a lesbian miko is a lesbian miko is a lesbian miko is a lesbian miko is a lesbian miko is a lesbian miko is a lesbian miko is a lesbian miko is a lesbian miko is a lesbian miko is a lesbian miko is a lesbian miko is a lesbian miko is a lesbian miko is a lesbian miko is a lesbian miko is a lesbian miko is a lesbian miko is a lesbian miko is a lesbian miko is a lesbian miko is a lesbian miko is a lesbian miko is a lesbian miko is a lesbian miko is a lesbian miko is a lesbian miko is a lesbian miko is a lesbian miko is a lesbian miko is a lesbian miko is a lesbian miko is a lesbian miko is a lesbian miko is a lesbian miko is a lesbian miko is a lesbian miko is a lesbian miko is a lesbian miko is a lesbian miko is a lesbian miko is a lesbian miko is a lesbian miko is a lesbian miko is a lesbian miko is a lesbian miko is a lesbian miko is a lesbian miko is a lesbian miko is a lesbian miko is a lesbian miko is a lesbian miko is a lesbian miko is a lesbian miko is a lesbian miko is a lesbian miko is a lesbian miko is a lesbian miko is a lesbian miko is a lesbian miko is a lesbian miko is a lesbian miko is a lesbian miko is a lesbian miko is a lesbian miko is a lesbian miko is a lesbian miko is a lesbian miko is a lesbian miko is a lesbian miko is a lesbian miko is a lesbian miko is a lesbian miko is a lesbian miko is a lesbian miko is a lesbian miko is a lesbian miko is a lesbian miko is a lesbian miko is a lesbian miko is a lesbian miko is a lesbian miko is a lesbian miko is a lesbian miko is a lesbian miko is a lesbian miko is a lesbian miko is a lesbian miko is a lesbian miko is a lesbian miko is a lesbian miko is a lesbian miko is a lesbian miko is a lesbian miko is a lesbian miko is a lesbian miko is a lesbian miko is a lesbian miko is a lesbian miko is a lesbian miko is a lesbian miko is a lesbian miko is a lesbian miko is a lesbian miko is a lesbian miko is a lesbian miko is a lesbian miko is a lesbian miko is a lesbian miko is a lesbian miko is a lesbian miko is a lesbian miko is a lesbian miko is a lesbian miko is a lesbian miko is a lesbian miko is a lesbian miko is a lesbian miko is a lesbian miko is a lesbian miko is a lesbian miko is a lesbian miko is a lesbian miko is a lesbian miko is a lesbian miko is a lesbian miko is a lesbian miko is a lesbian miko is a lesbian miko is a lesbian miko is a lesbian miko is a lesbian miko is a lesbian miko is a lesbian miko is a lesbian miko is a lesbian miko is a lesbian miko is a lesbian miko is a lesbian miko is a lesbian miko is a lesbian miko is a lesbian miko is a lesbian miko is a lesbian miko is a lesbian miko is a lesbian miko is a lesbian miko is a lesbian miko is a lesbian miko is a lesbian miko is a lesbian miko is a lesbian miko is a lesbian miko is a lesbian miko is a lesbian miko is a lesbian miko is a lesbian miko is a lesbian miko is a lesbian miko is a lesbian miko is a lesbian miko is a lesbian miko is a lesbian miko is a lesbian miko is a lesbian miko is a lesbian miko is a lesbian miko is a lesbian miko is a lesbian miko is a lesbian miko is a lesbian miko is a lesbian miko is a lesbian miko is a lesbian miko is a lesbian miko is a lesbian miko is a lesbian miko is a lesbian

# ? Jan 28, 2018 06:40

Adbot: ADBOT LOVES YOU

# ? May 25, 2024 23:28

Improbable Lobster: Jan 6, 2012; "From each according to his ability" said Ares. It sounded like a quotation.; Buglord

Aurora posted:

miko is a lesbian

# ? Jan 28, 2018 06:41

Improbable Lobster: Jan 6, 2012; "From each according to his ability" said Ares. It sounded like a quotation.; Buglord

"im not denying other interpretations! im not denying other interpretations!!", i continue to insist as i slowly shrink and transform into a gas light

# ? Jan 28, 2018 06:44

Pener Kropoopkin: Jan 30, 2013

Jenny Angel posted:

Oh right, Pener asked earlier how you can have a character that supports a compelling trans reading without being grounded in gender essentialism, and I kinda blew past that lovely but slightly interesting question. In the interest of acting in at least a little bit of good faith, here is one such character: Neo, from The Matrix

Do you mean like, in transhumanist terms? Affirming a universally trans reading was one of my earliest posts.

Xinder posted:

Look, man. I'll level with you. I brought up my gf because I thought that by understanding why this was sensitive to me you might be able to understand what you're doing wrong. I was wrong to do so, because I was treating you like a decent human being at the time. Your words since then have proven to me that you are anything but. The way I see it, we have one of two options here:

1. You're lying about knowing trans people to win internet points in an internet argument
2. You're a horrible hateful manipulative person who can actually interact with trans people and call them friends, but will still say poo poo like "she wants to be a woman" as if that's okay.

I really hope it's 1.

I get why you're sensitive, and why you don't like what I said. Being offensive isn't my intent, and I'm sorry that your girlfriend experiences so much anguish.

# ? Jan 28, 2018 06:45

Xinder: Apr 27, 2013; i want to be a prince

Jenny Angel posted:

Oh right, Pener asked earlier how you can have a character that supports a compelling trans reading without being grounded in gender essentialism, and I kinda blew past that lovely but slightly interesting question. In the interest of acting in at least a little bit of good faith, here is one such character: Neo, from The Matrix

Just quoting this now because it's a really good post.

# ? Jan 28, 2018 06:45

Aurora: Jan 7, 2008

Pener Kropoopkin posted:

Do you mean like, in transhumanist terms? Affirming a universally trans reading was one of my earliest posts.

I get why you're sensitive, and why you don't like what I said. Being offensive isn't my intent, and I'm sorry that your girlfriend experiences so much anguish.

# ? Jan 28, 2018 06:47

Jenny Angel: Oct 24, 2010; Out of Control
Hard to Regulate
Anything Goes!; Lipstick Apathy

Improbable Lobster posted:

"im not denying other interpretations! im not denying other interpretations!!", i continue to insist as i slowly shrink and transform into a gas light

I tried to tell him which character is most subtextually relatable to my own trans experience and he just laughed at me. I gotta act like it doesn't hurt, on account of I'm insecure and preoccupied with conforming because I want to be a woman or whatever poo poo, but... it hurts

# ? Jan 28, 2018 06:48

Pener Kropoopkin: Jan 30, 2013

Jenny Angel posted:

I tried to tell him which character is most subtextually relatable to my own trans experience and he just laughed at me.

Where? I'm asking you to explain your interpretation of Neo.

# ? Jan 28, 2018 06:51

Aurora: Jan 7, 2008

Pener Kropoopkin posted:

Where? I'm asking you to explain your interpretation of Neo.

# ? Jan 28, 2018 06:52

Expect My Mom: Nov 18, 2013; by Smythe

Pener Kropoopkin posted:

I get why you're sensitive, and why you don't like what I said. Being offensive isn't my intent, and I'm sorry that your girlfriend experiences so much anguish.

loving awesome poo poo to pull a "i'm sorry you're sensitive what i said offended you" move dude, just some primo work right here, absolutely killing it tonight, tiger

# ? Jan 28, 2018 06:52

Xinder: Apr 27, 2013; i want to be a prince

Expect My Mom posted:

loving awesome poo poo to pull a "i'm sorry you're sensitive what i said offended you" move dude, just some primo work right here, absolutely killing it tonight, tiger

at this point i've graduated from normal anger to that kind of "i'm laughing, but i'm actually still kinda mad on the inside"

so here's this good video instead so i'm not just being negative constantly https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oJzM6MqveaA

# ? Jan 28, 2018 06:54

Pener Kropoopkin: Jan 30, 2013

Expect My Mom posted:

loving awesome poo poo to pull a "i'm sorry you're sensitive what i said offended you" move dude, just some primo work right here, absolutely killing it tonight, tiger

I'm sorry I hurt Xinder's feelings, but that would also be declared a bad faith statement. Hurting people's feelings was never, ever, my intent.

# ? Jan 28, 2018 06:56

Aurora: Jan 7, 2008

Pener Kropoopkin posted:

I'm sorry I hurt Xinder's feelings, but that would also be declared a bad faith statement. Hurting people's feelings was never, ever, my intent.

# ? Jan 28, 2018 06:56

Jenny Angel: Oct 24, 2010; Out of Control
Hard to Regulate
Anything Goes!; Lipstick Apathy

Pener Kropoopkin posted:

Do you mean like, in transhumanist terms?

[watching the protagonist of a work written and directed by two trans women, whose arc involves realizing a deeply transgressive and transformative truth about themselves and finding radical acceptance within a subaltern and aesthetically countercultural community, with the main conflict coming from a group that makes heavy use of restrictive Western patriarchal motifs in their visual coding and also insists on calling the protagonist a name that was assigned by a flawed system and the protagonist no longer identifies with... a 'dead name', if you will] This is trans... humanism?

I mean yeah, it's also that, but... you goofball. You absolute dorkus

# ? Jan 28, 2018 06:58

Expect My Mom: Nov 18, 2013; by Smythe

Xinder posted:

at this point i've graduated from normal anger to that kind of "i'm laughing, but i'm actually still kinda mad on the inside"

so here's this good video instead so i'm not just being negative constantly https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oJzM6MqveaA

a healing video

the moving shot of the hug where akira's walking towards ryo's in the bed is a masterpiece

# ? Jan 28, 2018 06:59

Pener Kropoopkin: Jan 30, 2013

Jenny Angel posted:

[watching the protagonist of a work written and directed by two trans women, whose arc involves realizing a deeply transgressive and transformative truth about themselves and finding radical acceptance within a subaltern and aesthetically countercultural community, with the main conflict coming from a group that makes heavy use of restrictive Western patriarchal motifs in their visual coding and also insists on calling the protagonist a name that was assigned by a flawed system and the protagonist no longer identifies with... a 'dead name', if you will] This is trans... humanism?

I mean yeah, it's also that, but... you goofball. You absolute dorkus

I didn't mean to be dismissive. I didn't even know you're trans or it would have been obvious. I'm not laughing at you, and I understand that interpretation.

At the same time, it doesn't discount a transgender reading informed by explicit gender coding.

# ? Jan 28, 2018 07:00

Expect My Mom: Nov 18, 2013; by Smythe

Jenny Angel posted:

[watching the protagonist of a work written and directed by two trans women, whose arc involves realizing a deeply transgressive and transformative truth about themselves and finding radical acceptance within a subaltern and aesthetically countercultural community, with the main conflict coming from a group that makes heavy use of restrictive Western patriarchal motifs in their visual coding and also insists on calling the protagonist a name that was assigned by a flawed system and the protagonist no longer identifies with... a 'dead name', if you will] This is trans... humanism?

I mean yeah, it's also that, but... you goofball. You absolute dorkus

this is a good post

# ? Jan 28, 2018 07:00

Aurora: Jan 7, 2008

Pener Kropoopkin posted:

I didn't mean to be dismissive. I didn't even know you're trans or it would have been obvious. I'm not laughing at you, and I understand that interpretation.

At the same time, it doesn't discount a transgender reading informed by explicit gender coding.

# ? Jan 28, 2018 07:01

Expect My Mom: Nov 18, 2013; by Smythe

hey, is miko a lesbian?

# ? Jan 28, 2018 07:02

Xinder: Apr 27, 2013; i want to be a prince

Jenny Angel posted:

[watching the protagonist of a work written and directed by two trans women, whose arc involves realizing a deeply transgressive and transformative truth about themselves and finding radical acceptance within a subaltern and aesthetically countercultural community, with the main conflict coming from a group that makes heavy use of restrictive Western patriarchal motifs in their visual coding and also insists on calling the protagonist a name that was assigned by a flawed system and the protagonist no longer identifies with... a 'dead name', if you will] This is trans... humanism?

I mean yeah, it's also that, but... you goofball. You absolute dorkus

I've been meaning to some day try and watch the sequels and see if i can find some way in which they also carry that subtext. but i kinda don't want to, and also i really doubt they do.

# ? Jan 28, 2018 07:03

Jenny Angel: Oct 24, 2010; Out of Control
Hard to Regulate
Anything Goes!; Lipstick Apathy

Xinder posted:

Just quoting this now because it's a really good post.

Expect My Mom posted:

this is a good post

You guys are being really kind to me and I genuinely appreciate it a lot. It reminds me of the theme of humanity's best instincts managing to persist in even the bleakest of times, as expressed by one of my favorite animes, Devilman Crybaby

# ? Jan 28, 2018 07:07

Xinder: Apr 27, 2013; i want to be a prince

Jenny Angel posted:

You guys are being really kind to me and I genuinely appreciate it a lot. It reminds me of the theme of humanity's best instincts managing to persist in even the bleakest of times, as expressed by one of my favorite animes, Devilman Crybaby

In the interest of continuing kindness, here is a good video of whom i believe to be your favorite character https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YM3lVxvf-sk

# ? Jan 28, 2018 07:08

RME: Feb 20, 2012

Smoking Crow posted:

I've been looking online for some Devilman fanart and I've found a lot of Ryo ^^

Sorry that it's all Western

# ? Jan 28, 2018 07:09

Jenny Angel: Oct 24, 2010; Out of Control
Hard to Regulate
Anything Goes!; Lipstick Apathy

Xinder posted:

In the interest of continuing kindness, here is a good video of whom i believe to be your favorite character https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YM3lVxvf-sk

Real talk, if I hadn't just dropped money on this beautiful Tetsuya Naito avatar, I'd be rocking this

with the title text "Oh, of course, it's my old friend Jenny Angel! How the hell have you been keeping, then?"

# ? Jan 28, 2018 07:11

Nina: Oct 9, 2016; Invisible werewolf (entirely visible, not actually a wolf)

Aurora posted:

miko is a lesbian

# ? Jan 28, 2018 07:13

Nina: Oct 9, 2016; Invisible werewolf (entirely visible, not actually a wolf)

Also to weigh in on weird trans reading posting, what actually resonated to me the most in Devilman was the narrative undercurrent of how the main characters� own bodies are a root of so much mental anguish and eventually ostracization.

# ? Jan 28, 2018 07:17

Xinder: Apr 27, 2013; i want to be a prince

Jenny Angel posted:

Real talk, if I hadn't just dropped money on this beautiful Tetsuya Naito avatar, I'd be rocking this

with the title text "Oh, of course, it's my old friend Jenny Angel! How the hell have you been keeping, then?"

My gf and I have matching steam avatars actually

mine:

hers:

we can't resist a good theme

# ? Jan 28, 2018 07:17

dogsicle: Oct 23, 2012

i will only accept satan/ryo fanart where he has feather pubes

# ? Jan 28, 2018 07:18

Expect My Mom: Nov 18, 2013; by Smythe

if you draw satan ryo and don't draw his penis, you're a coward

# ? Jan 28, 2018 07:26

Nina: Oct 9, 2016; Invisible werewolf (entirely visible, not actually a wolf)

Let Satan have their penis 2018

# ? Jan 28, 2018 07:27

Xinder: Apr 27, 2013; i want to be a prince

I wish there was more penis in Crybaby, but I appreciate that if there had to be only one it was Satan's

# ? Jan 28, 2018 07:27

Expect My Mom: Nov 18, 2013; by Smythe

satan status:

feathers? preened
titties? out
penis? uncut

we out here

# ? Jan 28, 2018 07:30

Nina: Oct 9, 2016; Invisible werewolf (entirely visible, not actually a wolf)

Nina posted:

Also to weigh in on weird trans reading posting, what actually resonated to me the most in Devilman was the narrative undercurrent of how the main characters� own bodies are a root of so much mental anguish and eventually ostracization.

Actually let�s build one this. The entire plot starts off as characters trying to adjust their selves in this social dynamic where they�re stuck between the contexts of two norms as a human and a demon, eventually Akira and Miko embrace this and develop strong identities based on their non-conforming existences (while Koda just kinda gives in to a society�s demands to avoid pain) and ultimately their enemies become those who insist they�re one or the other and commit violence upon them solely based on who they are. The good guys are the ones who accept �if you say you�re a devilman of course you�re a devilman.�

See and I didn�t even mention big tits once.

# ? Jan 28, 2018 07:33

Xinder: Apr 27, 2013; i want to be a prince

Nina posted:

Actually let�s build one this. The entire plot starts off as characters trying to adjust their selves in this social dynamic where they�re stuck between the contexts of two norms as a human and a demon, eventually Akira and Miko embrace this and develop strong identities based on their non-conforming existences (while Koda just kinda gives in to a society�s demands to avoid pain) and ultimately their enemies become those who insist they�re one or the other and commit violence upon them solely based on who they are. The good guys are the ones who accept �if you say you�re a devilman of course you�re a devilman.�

See and I didn�t even mention big tits once.

A trans reading of Devilman Crybaby that doesn't utilize gender essentialism.

Thank you very much for this.

# ? Jan 28, 2018 07:36

Jenny Angel: Oct 24, 2010; Out of Control
Hard to Regulate
Anything Goes!; Lipstick Apathy

I'm a little too tired out tonight to get into effortpost territory about something that's still pretty raw for me to engage with, but I'mma do my best tomorrow to build on Nina's excellent post with my own trans reading of Ryo

# ? Jan 28, 2018 07:42

Smoking Crow: Feb 14, 2012; *laughs at u*

Miko is still, a lesbian

# ? Jan 28, 2018 07:44

Nina: Oct 9, 2016; Invisible werewolf (entirely visible, not actually a wolf)

Miko�s a big ol goddamn gay

# ? Jan 28, 2018 07:48

Xinder: Apr 27, 2013; i want to be a prince

miko will always be a gay

# ? Jan 28, 2018 07:49

Raxivace: Sep 9, 2014

Miko is gay and also cool and good.

# ? Jan 28, 2018 07:52

Adbot: ADBOT LOVES YOU

# ? May 25, 2024 23:28

Alan_Shore: Dec 2, 2004

How is Miko a lesbian when she went on a date and had feelings for the rapper guy and then hosed that skeezy dude? Are you using a different definition of lesbian?

# ? Jan 28, 2018 08:02

The Something Awful Forums > The Finer Arts > VEGETA > DEVILMAN CRYBABY

«‹›51 »