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Y'know, the way you folks keep spelling Gandhi as "Ghandi" makes me laugh. Because if you spell it that way, it means something very rude in the languages of the sub-continent. And frankly, it's very appropriate to how Gandhi's characterized as a warmongering dickhead in the Civilization games...
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Jan 21, 2018 05:27
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painedforever posted:Y'know, the way you folks keep spelling Gandhi as "Ghandi" makes me laugh. Because if you spell it that way, it means something very rude in the languages of the sub-continent. And frankly, it's very appropriate to how Gandhi's characterized as a warmongering dickhead in the Civilization games... I was playing between patrol shifts (I'm First Aid) at A Taste of Animethon today, and I still had people go straight to Nuclear Gandhi the Meme.
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Jan 21, 2018 05:37
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What map scripts are good? I generally just use Continents with default settings or occasionally low sea levels if I want more land, but the landmasses seem kinda boring
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Jan 21, 2018 06:20
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What do you find boring about the landmasses exactly? Since that'd possibly let me find a script you'd like.
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Jan 21, 2018 09:57
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StashAugustine posted:What map scripts are good? I generally just use Continents with default settings or occasionally low sea levels if I want more land, but the landmasses seem kinda boring i'm fond of Custom_Continents, and Big_and_Small with shape set to Snaky Continents. Fractal and Pangaea can be nice too.
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Jan 21, 2018 16:09
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Chucat posted:What do you find boring about the landmasses exactly? Since that'd possibly let me find a script you'd like. Basically that they just end up as a giant north-south strip of land, and there's nothing interesting going on in the ocean
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Jan 21, 2018 17:16
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I'm curious now about something. I know which civs are considered top tier and which leaders tend to be, but which civs and leaders are considered the worst? Tokugawa is the worst leader in the game, right?
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Jan 21, 2018 19:20
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Is the AI cheating by dividing up the two first religion techs? One of them always goes Meditation and the other Polytheism instead of both trying for, say, Meditation and then the one who didn't priorities the second tech?
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Jan 21, 2018 20:06
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Poil posted:Is the AI cheating by dividing up the two first religion techs? One of them always goes Meditation and the other Polytheism instead of both trying for, say, Meditation and then the one who didn't priorities the second tech? My guess at what’s happening is that Gandhi goes straight for Hinduism cause he’s flavored to do so (being India and all) while Charlemagne goes for Buddhism cause Meditation is cheaper.
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Jan 21, 2018 21:35
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StashAugustine posted:Basically that they just end up as a giant north-south strip of land, and there's nothing interesting going on in the ocean That's usually triggered by the script generating "hemisphere" continents. If the template you're using has an option for "massive" continents (I think Custom Continents does?) that'll make them unusual shapes. Tilted Axis shakes things up by putting the poles on the sides instead of the top and bottom, which is fun for variety, since it throws off where you think you are early in the game. And you can always do land-based maps like Oasis and Inland Sea. Inland Sea is probably the best balanced of those; I like the Mediterranean option in Tectonics (Lakes in there, or the main Lakes map in a Custom game are good too) but it doesn't place the start points intelligently. If you play one of the land-heavy maps, I strongly suggest adding more civs or dropping the map size to small and adding 2 back in. Space Bat posted:I'm curious now about something. I know which civs are considered top tier and which leaders tend to be, but which civs and leaders are considered the worst? Tokugawa is the worst leader in the game, right? Any civ with Hunting is suspect, since most maps generate hunting resources on bad terrain (fur is often on ice!) and it's "balanced" by handing you the game on a platter if you start with Ivory. So Hunting + Mysticism is probably the worst, unless you count Fishing on Great Plains or something.  On paper, the Celts are probably the worst civ, with that tech combo and counter-synergistic unique unit/building that aren't commonly used in high-tier play. Both leaders are solid, though. Speaking of, I actually think Tokugawa is OK... lower-mid tier, definitely, but not bottom-tier. He's strong militarily starting in Medieval and dominates the entire rest of the game thanks to having the best gunpowder units, you just have to get there. I think Genghis Khan is worse (traits don't help his unique unit or a rush-based strategy) and Charlemagne is probably the worst overall.The thing is, you can't just look at the traits and civs in a vacuum, you evaluate them in how they help you get to the 6 possible win conditions. Tokugawa has a gameplan: draft rifles who all show up with a load of promotions (and as long as you have any extra XP source plus Barracks, one of the counter-promotions too) and sweep the board. What's Charlie good at? Ragnar is a little weird too since Financial suggests sitting home and teching and Aggressive doesn't help with that (or help protect you, again, until gunpowder), but Financial is so good it still works. Poil posted:Is the AI cheating by dividing up the two first religion techs? One of them always goes Meditation and the other Polytheism instead of both trying for, say, Meditation and then the one who didn't priorities the second tech? No, AIs tend to favor one of the two depending on their internal tech preferences (so Monty always goes Meditation, Saladin always goes Polytheism), so if multiple religious civs are in play, odds are a few of them will finish researching Meditation and get no enlightenment because someone else got it on the same turn (and the game resolves ties in turn order, with the player always #1 and thus getting priority). You can check their techs in the world-builder and verify which ones they're going for as you play.
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Jan 21, 2018 21:38
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That definitely makes sense. I do appreciate that in general there doesn't seem to be a civ that is unplayable in any situation.
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Jan 21, 2018 22:12
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Another consideration is the timing of a Civ’s unique unit/building. Early ones are always better cause bonuses earlier in the game snowball towards victory while late game replacements tend to only show up long after the game’s been decided. This is why Germany tends to be an undesirable civ, for example, cause both their UU and UB come in Industrial era. The UB is very occasionally useful in that you get your factories up faster and the Panzer dominates Tank-Tank matchups, but the point is their bonuses barely even matter in the big picture. At least they start with mining though, so it’s not all bad.
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Jan 21, 2018 22:34
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Space Bat posted:I'm curious now about something. I know which civs are considered top tier and which leaders tend to be, but which civs and leaders are considered the worst? Tokugawa is the worst leader in the game, right? Churchill is probably the weakest to play as. Tokugawa is the nut low to have as an AI in your game because he's so isolationist.
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Jan 21, 2018 23:03
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StashAugustine posted:What map scripts are good? I generally just use Continents with default settings or occasionally low sea levels if I want more land, but the landmasses seem kinda boring Personally I always use Fractal. It seems to consistently do the best job of producing maps that are a little different each game and interesting to play. I tried PerfectWorld/Totestra but while they produce pretty maps I find they're not that fun to play Civ on. Too much goddamn desert in the center of every continent
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Jan 21, 2018 23:06
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Doesn't Churchill at least have the gameplan of spamming a shitload of elite Redcoats, like Japan but with a directly synergistic unique and a UB that's not garbage? Ragnar also sounds like he's supposed to be good at financing your wars.
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Jan 22, 2018 04:10
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Also I tried big/small and it was cool but I got stuck on the small island and that kinda sucked
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Jan 22, 2018 04:11
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StashAugustine posted:Also I tried big/small and it was cool but I got stuck on the small island and that kinda sucked yeah that's always a risk with that map scipt. no shame in restarting if that happens and you're not in the mood for an island-hopping game
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Jan 22, 2018 04:16
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Prav posted:yeah that's always a risk with that map scipt. no shame in restarting if that happens and you're not in the mood for an island-hopping game I wish non-resource water tiles as a whole weren't dead tiles in almost all situations. Even with Financial+Colossus they're barely acceptable. At least Moai is a thing. Island games inevitably fall under the criteria of "Do you have Great Lighthouse? If so, you win! If not, then uh, you still win cause the AI can't into water."
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Jan 22, 2018 04:42
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get a load of this guy not playing as the dutch 24/7
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Jan 22, 2018 04:45
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Dikes are awesome but Steam Power is a bit too late for my tastes 
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Jan 22, 2018 05:01
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Whew, here we go! This is the first time I've done a "screenshot LP" since WarCraft 3 "battle reports" like... 12 years ago? Let me know what you think. It's a ton of work but there's something kind of zen about trimming pictures and weaving them into the report and all that. Justinian Immortal, Part 1 https://lpix.org/sslptest/index.php?id=150175 Anyway, that's a good stopping point and it's been 3 hours of work. Things are going along so far, despite the fact I have no military and my neighbors are still Cautious. That could be bad. Sully has swordsmen, so I think I might skip horse archers and just tech along 'til cataphracts: I still have city locations to grab (the capitol is once again ready to whip another settler out to get the gems) and I need to explore and find more trading partners for the great Aesthetics swap (and Theology too once somebody else gets it; that'll be my cue to unload it).
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Jan 22, 2018 10:15
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Huh, I thought I set the maps to Normal speed, Civ keeps setting anything I do to Quick and I don't even notice, drat. Sorry about that. Also what you wrote looks really sick so far, I appreciate people trying out the games and enjoying them.
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Jan 22, 2018 12:51
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Chucat posted:Huh, I thought I set the maps to Normal speed, Civ keeps setting anything I do to Quick and I don't even notice, drat. Sorry about that. No worries, I thought you did that to add to the challenge since Quick is considered to be harder (personally I think it's a toss-up; a lot of things like barb spawns and war plotting is checked each turn, so fewer turns mean fewer dice rolls to go against you). It's fun to try new things like that too. Here's part 2. Fewer turns this time, but I had to go in-depth about tech trading psychology since I remember reading upthread that a lot of you guys aren't familiar with it or turn it off. We end up meeting 2 of the remaining 3 AIs, too. Oh, and I do try to explain my rationale for doing things (probably with too many  really), but if anybody has any questions (or suggestions for improvement, for that matter) feel free!Justinian Immortal, Part 2 https://lpix.org/sslptest/index.php?id=150188
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Jan 24, 2018 08:46
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Wayne posted:What's Charlie good at? He’s got the best music.
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Jan 24, 2018 09:50
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Berryjon's Religion Game Part 3 Run aborted on turn 304 when Mao decided to attack with his two vassals, and go from Longbows and Macemen to Curiassars and Grenadiers against my Machine Guns, Cannon and Infantry (and some Airships) in a single turn, and swarm me with way too many units for a guy who was at parity with me on the score board with more cities and control over the Palace.
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Jan 26, 2018 03:07
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berryjon posted:Run aborted on turn 304 Aww, rough.  Do you want to put the save up and get some advice, or just let it go? It's definitely true that lategame game can be a slog (though at least not as bad as the earlier games where every unit got moved individually  ), even if you're winning.Anyway, this is going to be a bit different. I'm going to put up the 3rd update, then a "final update" with the game I'm actually submitting for points, because of stuff that happened the next couple turns after update 3. I'll continue that series with the cataphracts and stuff if you guys want to see that, but given how much the thread's slowed down since the challenge started, I figure wrapping it up is probably best. Justinian Immortal, Part 3 https://lpix.org/sslptest/index.php?id=150198 The turn after this one, I got the announcement that Zara built the Apostolic Palace in his capitol. (He's running Bureaucracy too and got the AI bonuses, so it's no surprise he churned it out so quickly after trading Theology.) He's still Christian, so I decided to play ahead and go for the "get religious win without building the AP" and see if it'd be viable. The only problem is he quickly switched to Buddhism (Isabella flooding the zone with missionaries before he switched to Theocracy), and it seemed like it made the AP bug out, with no resolutions coming up and the max amount of turns between elections making it a pain to test. So I decided to go culture. Culture victories aren't fun to report on because they mostly involve hitting End Turn a lot, but I did take a few notes and pictures. So the first question is, how do you get AIs to not declare war and stomp you into the dirt when they have infantry and you stopped research at longbows? There's no surefire route (especially if you're next door to Montezuma or something), but basically, 1) accept all their demands except declaring war on someone else (unless you're sure the person who asked is going to win and vassal that AI, eventually they'll make peace and you'll get rolled by the 2nd party), 2) avoiding racking up any penalties you don't have (trading with a civ's worst enemy is a big one), and 3) always have something they can demand of you, and once you're too far behind for that to be techs, make sure you always have a few hundred gold in the bank. 9 times out of 10, they'll make a demand first and only start plotting if you refuse. Make sure to trade away any strategic resources that might be a casus belli too (oil and iron seem to be the most common, but it's rare an AI gets this far without having iron). Being Spiritual helps, so you can pull stuff like this without losing turns:  And it later led to:  Since I couldn't advance to Renaissance without missing points, I couldn't go into Liberalism for Free Speech. So the turns progressed with me building all the religious buildings, Temples first, to unlock Cathedrals. For culture wins, you want at least 9 cities, so every one can have a temple, and place the 3 cathedrals in your legendary cities. Culture is interesting in that all the sources of it stack (they're discrete bonuses: individual buildings, specialists, etc.), so the multipliers from cathedrals hit all of it, while for production and research most of your bonuses are already multipliers, so you're just adding another multiple onto the same base. So this is where culture and religion intersect: you want as many religions as possible to build as many cathedrals as possible. We already had Confucianism and Christianity of course, while Suleiman sent Hindu missionaries our way and Isabella sent Buddhist ones across the map to us. Humorously, Ramesses did too--  --but they all failed to spread Judaism! I think he sent 3, since you can only have 3 at a time and they had to cross the map to get to Byzantium. After the Church of the Nativity, I turned Prophets into Golden Ages (along with a Great Scientist the 2nd time) to get doubled GPP on top of Pacifism, and was running Artists everywhere. I ended up settling 3 (remember, their 14 culture (12+2 with Sistine) gets quadrupled with the 4 cathedrals) and then putting a couple each in Antioch and Thessalonica to set up culture bombs to push me over the top. For the 3rd Golden Age, I used a prophet + engineer + ...artist, because using one to double the points everywhere else would get me 3 more Artists. Be willing to think outside the box! And don't be afraid to do stuff like this if it means you'll win the game.  Die for your art  The results:  Constantinople went Legendary on its own, with the Bureaucracy bonuses from commerce (running the slider on Culture turns your commerce into culture in each city, instead of research or gold) and production when I started building commerce there.  You can check out any time you like, but you can never leave Once the other cities were within 7000 culture of being Legendary (18k out of the necessary 25k), I fired off the culture bombs. Net result:   You still have to hit Next Turn, I guess to allow for the possibility the AI could've dropped a stack of paratroopers and taken one of the cities on the interturn. Well, it's not like nothing happens....  Come now, Zara, don't be a sore loser.   I'm just glad Monty got capped, so I don't have the lowest score on the board!  Unlike diplomatic victories, we actually get an ending video this time! We did end up building the Colossus and the Pyramids; no GLH though.  Our wonders, not counting Great Library, which was in Adrianople, and the Colossus, which was in Nicaea. I ended up not going for Sankore at all, because I did some mental math and figured that the bonus research would've required me to finish at least one of the techs that moves you into Renaissance, and I'd rather take the point hit on a wonder than lose a multiplier. Angkor Wat ended up in Mecca, even though Saladin got Philosophy a few turns after Zara and Zara got quite a pile of failgold from it. Checking the event log, Sally had gotten a Great Engineer and swiped it from under Zara's nose! I love when the AI does stuff like that (well, as long as they don't do it to me ). I'm pretty sure Isabella bulbed Theology, too, based on her techs and that she'd gotten a Prophet the turn before, but it's hard to check stuff like that. You definitely don't see the AI bulb very often; usually they settle or enter a Golden Age. Ended up building every eligible religious building. I should've lined up the two panels so you could've seen my entire military was 6 warriors. I had so much Happiness with max culture and Hippodromes (like 40+) I just ignored Emancipation and insecurity anger.  My 2nd worst score ever. But a win's a win!Points, near as I can figure: +25 for Winning the Game +25 additional for winning the game via Cultural Victory +25 additional for your state religion being Hinduism OR Buddhism (didn't found it, but ended in it  )+80 (2 for EACH Temple in your possession at the end of the game) +80 (2 for EACH Monastery in your possession at the end of the game) +24 (3 for EACH of your unique building in your possession at the end of the game) +60 (5 for EACH Cathedral in your possession at the end of the game) +20 (10 for EACH Holy Shrine in your possession at the end of the game) +30 (10 for Shwedagon Paya, Spiral Minaret, Sistine Chapel) +30 (15 for Pyramids, Oracle) +10 (5 for all additional wonders prior to the Industrial Era) +50 (10 for each surviving Civ at the end of the game) Not counting Monty because he capped, but not the -5 either since it wasn't to me +20 (5*X for the player in possession of the city with the most religions in it at the end of the game, where X is the number of religions) Ramesses and Zara had a few cities with 3 religions, but nobody but me had 4 Victory in Medieval Era or earlier - x1.25 Comes out to 598.75 with some tired 2am math. That was a lot of fun. Hope I could help y'all with some tricks and advice for this game; Civ4 is really complex and a lot of good strategy isn't readily apparent. Like I mentioned before, I've only been playing it a few months myself and learn something new every game. And also as before feel free to ask if you have any questions/advice!
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Jan 27, 2018 09:40
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berryjon posted:Berryjon's Religion Game Part 3 Yeah that sucks, but you can learn quite a bit from a loss as well! Keep in mind that no part of military power (besides certain military techs and wonders) shows up on the actual score screen, you'll have to look at the Soldier count in the demos screen, so if you're really behind on troops and look like a juicy target, you won't be any the wiser unless you're checking the demographics and graphs. It's also good to keep a look at techs as well and see what's being researched and if they're close to any of the 'military techs' (Construction, Gunpowder, Guilds, Rifling, Military Tradition, Steel etc)
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Jan 28, 2018 12:51
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Chucat posted:Yeah that sucks, but you can learn quite a bit from a loss as well! Keep in mind that no part of military power (besides certain military techs and wonders) shows up on the actual score screen, you'll have to look at the Soldier count in the demos screen, so if you're really behind on troops and look like a juicy target, you won't be any the wiser unless you're checking the demographics and graphs. It's also good to keep a look at techs as well and see what's being researched and if they're close to any of the 'military techs' (Construction, Gunpowder, Guilds, Rifling, Military Tradition, Steel etc) Here is the save at the end of Part 2 And here is the last auto-save.
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Jan 28, 2018 14:31
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Chucat posted:Yeah that sucks, but you can learn quite a bit from a loss as well! Keep in mind that no part of military power (besides certain military techs and wonders) shows up on the actual score screen, you'll have to look at the Soldier count in the demos screen, so if you're really behind on troops and look like a juicy target, you won't be any the wiser unless you're checking the demographics and graphs. It's also good to keep a look at techs as well and see what's being researched and if they're close to any of the 'military techs' (Construction, Gunpowder, Guilds, Rifling, Military Tradition, Steel etc) BUG mod also helpfully displays power ratios in the score list, which is ridiculously helpful
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Jan 28, 2018 16:40
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berryjon posted:I did! But when the AI goes from Longbows to Grenadiers overnight, while I have sight on their cities, without paying money for the upgrades, or taking the time to research the relevant techs, I get really damned annoyed. AIs do have to pay to upgrade units, but they get a ridiculous discount on them. I'm going off the autosave, and Mao and Mansa both have Military Science, so Grenadiers are a legit upgrade for a lot of their units (Macemen in particular are a favorite to upgrade, it's only 110 gold and you can inherit City Raider). Probably what happened is Mao ordered Mansa to research it, and then either traded it for something he had or demanded it. Going off Glance Mao hasn't demanded any resources from Mansa (you'd see an unequal number of "tos" and "froms" if he had), so he might've demanded the tech. You get one free demand from your vassals they have to accept, but Mao can probably get more because he's much stronger than either vassal and they actually like him. So let's start with the diplo screen. We want to distract the reinforcements going into Jon's territory, plus this'll rack up some diplomacy bonuses with the neutral AIs. Some cash is good too! So:  He wanted Lib + Divine Right, and Divine Right is quintessential tradebait once its wonders have been built, but we need him to be a threat to Mao, and that means he needs grenadiers too. Caesar is Christian and will probably be at Friendly once this war's over (we can do a defense pact once peace has resumed, and he has no "fair trade" bonus either, so we can give him a tech to get that), so we can count on his vote without shenanigans. Let's get Stalin involved too so we don't have to worry about Mansa threatening our Indian cities on the east:  Stalin is way behind, so we'll give him techs he's about to get on his way to Communism anyway, without directly getting him there (like Astronomy to go straight to Scientific Method). Plus Divine Right. Next, some trade deals: This gets Jon some more cash and hammers for Mining Inc, and Stalin's spices will help the unhappiness problems with these huge cities at wartime. In fact, we're going to drop the research slider to 0 and culture to 20% to further deal with unhappiness and bank some money; we might need to upgrade some units in a pinch. Before we do anything else, let's see what we're up against:   I've never seen the AI just beeline for your capitol like that! Guess he really wanted the AP! An autosave when the war started might've been better, because it would've taken him a few turns to just walk past your units, and that would've been the time to switch to military civics and get a defense going (and start bombarding his stack with airships and artillery), but this is still salvageable. Jon's rifles should do well against the cuirassier that everybody's fielding at this point. So far civics, we need more units now. This makes Police State seem tempting, and it is once we're out of the crunch thanks to his boosted production with Mining Inc, but let's start with Universal Suffrage to rush-buy units with the gold we just got and are banking. Nationhood is great, and Emancipation is a necessary evil with 3 other civs running it and our cities nice and tall. For the other 2, we'll do Free Market and Theocracy. The latter is self-explanatory, getting Drafted infantry their first promo; but for Free Market, we have enough allied cities we have no internal trade routes, and that plus effectively dropping Mining Inc maintenance by 50% (going from +25% on Environmentalism to -25%) should get us a ton of money. That's much more important right now than the heightened health cap. Jon has barely any hills for windmills in the first place, so the rest of the civic isn't doing us much good.  ...or it could only save us about 30 bucks. Well, looking again, not all our cities have the corporation yet, and all the new trade routes were internal. Well, sometimes you assume wrong! Anyway, let's get to building a defense....So the first thing I notice in Alexandria (since it's the next city under imminent threat; we already lost Thebes) is it has the National Park, but no Forest Preserves. Did you not know you need those, Jon, not just trees in the BFC? Also....  I'm going to assume the Epics were in Thebes, not that you hadn't built them, because those are 2 really important national wonders. You probably should've also had the Ironworks somewhere: it's the only way to get multiple Engineer slots pre-Factory, and the late-game wonders often don't have resources to double production, so saving Engineers for those is pretty strong. Plus they give you more production, which the Ironworks then multiplies. For what it's worth, I don't recommend putting both Epics in the same city: you want the Heroic Epic in a high-production city to rush units, and you want the National Epic in a high-food city to maximize specialist slots. Anyway, I rush-finish all the Machine Gunners in production and draft 3 infantry. It's tempting to send our stack to try to retake Thebes, but it'll be in revolt 13 turns, and any garrison Mao leaves there is a sitting duck with no cultural defenses and-- more importantly-- not threatening any other city. We know they can't keep this city, so let's not waste units taking it now when we know we're going to get it back later. So instead, let's focus on the stack threatening Alexandria. I move all the Drill rifles to garrison, reasoning that they should dispatch the cuirassier with minimal losses, and leave every wounded unit there to heal. That way we can also move them to reinforce another city if Mao goes after one. As long as he's in our culture, he's limited to 1 square normally or 2 cavalry-only. There are also a bunch of workers sitting idle in Bombay. Since our Indian cities are safe, I'll just move 2 workers to the front (we need railroads to help our units reinforce better) and put the others to developing the land here. The blank tiles get workshops for now to help build Wall Street (though right now Delhi is on a Factory, since Wall Street is disabled by losing a bank in Thebes), which'll get swapped to cottages to get the commerce multiplication for that wonder later. River hills should probably be windmills, since the boosted commerce means you'll probably always be working that tile (plus if you switch back to Environmentalism, you want more windmills).  Next turn confirms we have enough defenders he's not willing to throw his other stack at Alexandria, so now we know to get into position first to retake Thebes. Probably we'll wait until Flight is done and soften that stack up with bombers; it's not worth attacking as long as they have that forest for defense. I did switch all the cities that built machineguns last turn to artillery, so if he doesn't put up much more resistance, we can just throw howitzers at the woods and mop up whatever's left.  I threw the new airship to soften up one of Mao's cuirassier up near Heliopolis, and picked off his units with Infantry. Stalin moved his stack into range of Charlie's units, so I figure they'll take care of each other, with no cities for Charlie to believably pick off. Allies like Stalin can move normally in our culture, and opponents can't, so it's not like those guys can get away. We also rally the non-Drill part of our stack and 2 new drafted infantry here, to attack Thebes with the siege next turn:  This way we don't have the "crossing river" penalty. The rush-built machineguns from last turn mostly joined this stack, so there's not really much Mao can do to drive us off. I rush-buy a cavalry from Pataliputra I started last turn (2-move horsey units are a lot better for long-distance reinforcements like this) and bank the rest to rush-buy artillery next turn.  2 bits of AI brilliance here: Stalin throws his city raider catapults at the 2 cuirassier (amazingly it looks like he only lost 1) and kills them with war elephants, which he probably could've done straight-up (they have equal Strength thanks to the +50% vs. mounted elephants have). And then Mao threw a couple units at our stack anyway, which just makes it even more likely we'll take his garrison out with fewer losses (those war elephants probably would've been picked to fight our cavalry, and at a bit of a disadvantage, but still).  Battle for Thebes begins. It's tempting to go for the gusto and throw all your units in to win quickly (especially if you're worried about the enemy healing and undoing the hard work your siege did), but you can check and see if they have any medic units (and Mao actually does, it's that horse archer that survived a Parthian shot on our infantry  ) and hold back if they don't. In this case, they do, but he has enough grenadiers and our rifles have bad "fair fight" odds it's not worth throwing them away. We rush-buy 2 artillery to join in next turn and upgrade the CR rifle to infantry, which should guarantee a win against a grenadier. Next turn, Caesar is a bro and goes full Charge of the Light Brigade, hurling his cuirassier at Mao's garrison and losing 2/3rds of his stack, but weakening the garrison we should be able to take it this turn. Sure enough, we tear through the defenders, the new artillery leaving most of what's left at less than 3 Strength. We don't have quite enough units to take everything, but fortunately Jon had laid some railroad down, and:    Welcome back, Theb-- oh. Well, that's gratitude for you! Drafting is a fixed 3 anger but removes 2 population, and as cities get bigger unhappiness gets more pronounced. So we basically break even. I bump culture to 40% and queue up a theater, which should fix the remaining unhappiness next turn. Now the only thing left is finish buying artillery, and get everything in position to counterattack at Alexandria. Mao will actually talk peace now, but this is a great chance to smash down the last remaining threat, so why not do that? Moving in the artillery roused Mao to action, and he throws his stack at Alexandria to inflict absolutely no casualties. The war's over at this point (he's gone from demanding Alexandria to giving us his GPT in tribute)... unless you want to keep it going.  Save file here. This turn prompted the AP Resident election, which we should win handily. I guess the city it was in losing hands and going into rebellion reset the timer?
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Jan 28, 2018 20:49
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There's Forest Preserves around Alexandria. They just don't show up on the map all that easy. I want to put Iron Works in a city with Iron or Coal, but I don't have coal. I'll pass on picking up the game from there. Anyone else can if they want.
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Jan 28, 2018 21:27
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I just tossed in the save to be thorough, I figured if you were going to keep going, you could use that post as a guide. We haven't really covered modern military in this thread yet. And I wouldn't feel right picking up somebody else's save either, especially for a challenge. I did see one Preserve around Alexandria, but it was after I mentioned that; the only thing I saw at first was a lumbermill and the unimproved tiles. It's a crapshoot as to how much an AI pillages you, except for seafood of course, they always tear that up. As for the Ironworks, the description is a little misleading: you just have to have access to the resources in your empire, not in a given city's BFC; and it only gives you a bonus after it's built, the resources don't help you build it (unlike Germany with the coal-boosted Assembly Plant). Since you do have Iron, it's probably still worth getting; but you're right I definitely wouldn't build it just for the engineer slots if I didn't have either resource!
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Jan 28, 2018 21:46
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berryjon's Religion Game - Take 7, Part 1 So, after last game's sad but-kicking, I decided to start again.  Once more, with feeling, from the top!  Same starting place. And did you know that part of my choice to settle as-is last game was because I could have sworn crossing a river with a Settler loses all their movement? Turns out, this isn't the case!  Instead, I'm going to start here.  I'm going to go for the Theology jump again, so step one is to get to the Oracle as fast as I can, and set it up for later finishing.  This Warrior is going on the grand tour. No missing Gandhi and Charlemagne until the mid-game this time!  Stalin! Lookin' good buddy. You, uh, gonna do more research this game?  Gandhi, Buddhism. Yep, it's turn 8!  And there goes Charlemagne with Hinduism!  Mao finds me first. Not surprising.  This starting location gives me Rice, Stone, Dyes and Pigs, slightly better than last time.  Gandhi! Buddy! .... Uh, why are you Hindu? I thought you ... no, never mind, I had things backwards. Sorry to bother you, but at least I know where you are this time, long before you become a problem in my side.  Priesthood: Get! Masonry next to exploit that sweet Stone.  Julius! Buddy! You were so awesome to me last game, I hope we can keep up the good work this game.  Mansa! Buddy! You gonna annoy me, or roll over for Mao like you did last game, huh?  Quarry is finished, let's start putting down some Farms.  Stonehenge first. I want to grab the marble to the south-west with my new Settler before I start on the Oracle.  This should be a good spot.  OH GOD NO! This could have been bad, except animals can't cross into your territory, unlike normal barbs.    Bejing, capital of the Chinese.  Excellent! Writing is required to get to Theology, and Pottery is just awesome all around.  And on the same turn as Stonehenge!  Road to connect the cities, and then quarry the Marble.  Quarry time!  I only have two cities! This chart is useless!  GOT YOU! And you didn't found Buddhism? What? Oh, no, wait, you did. Sorry. I was looking up by your name in the diplomacy screen, and not in the score box on the right.  City #3, Heliopolis. Gets me Horses, and a second source of Stone.  Memphis was surprisingly good at production last game. I might as well make this city my Army City this game.  SIX TURNS on the Oracle? Wow. That's what you get for being Industrious with Marble. But I don't want to start that yet. I think another Worker or Settler is more important.  Workers be Workin'. Got Bronze Working in here, so I can hook up that Copper sooner, rather than later.  Heliopolis is connected, and will provide Horses in a couple turns.  Sure Stalin! You don't have a religion (yet).  City #4, to help offset Chinese expansion.  Yeah, let's do this. I'm not Christian yet, but when I do, you're on the list, buddy. But not The List. That's a different thing.  Stalin, exploring with an Archer and a Scout. Curious....  Might as well. I'm more likely to have Trade with you at this point.   No, seriously, I glossed over Turn 31, so why did I get it this game?!? This throws my plans into disarray! Founded in Heliopolis. I can work with this. Once I deal with the Forests, or sooner, I can turn this city into a Specialist one for this game, and having a Religion here is a good thing. Also, Theology in 24 turns, but I think I can do better than that.  Converting now was dumb, but Thebes can put out the Oracle in 3 turns with whipping of Slaves.  Get on the Cross Train, Jules!   DONE!    Now, about that Apostolic Palace...  Bah, won't let me convert yet.  Christianity in Elephantine? I know it's weighted towards 'newest city', but still!  No religion, no Palace.   Huh, I just got Wonder Sniped. Memphis was two turns out from the Wall. I got 122 gold out of the deal. That's a lovely pittance.  That's slow, but I can chop and whip it out faster.  I'm going to do something stupid, and put this in Heliopolis as a Great Person for the +2 Hammers.  Oh good, I want those courthouses. I've been stuck at four cities for now, and want to expand faster.   And in MEMPHIS? Alright, why are you being nice to me, game?  ... And I can leap to Philosophy/Taoism too. Nah, let's backfill some techs.  Back to military units for you, bucko. Let's start chopping and whipping these guys out, and spread the Cross!  And Mao is our first convert, thanks to our Trade routes!  It can happen, but sometimes, a city won't convert when you send a Missionary to them. It's a right royal pain.  Thanks Gandhi! This won't backfire on you horribly at all.  Let's stop here for now. 100 turns is a good start, and I think I'm in a better position than I was last game at this time.
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Jan 28, 2018 22:51
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I believe that missionary conversion chance is some percentage less than 100% (5%? 10%) per religion that already exists in a city. So if you want to convert an AI to your religion you wanna target any nonreligious cities first if you can.
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Jan 28, 2018 23:10
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berryjon posted:There's Forest Preserves around Alexandria. They just don't show up on the map all that easy. Unlike in Civ III, you don't need iron/coal in the BFC for a city to get full advantage of Ironworks. All that needs to happen is to have access to it through the trade network. And though ironworks is obviously worse with only +50% from iron, that's still larger than any other production boost in the game.
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Jan 29, 2018 00:38
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berryjon posted:So, after last game's sad but-kicking, I decided to start again. Sweet, good luck!  At the very least I think you should get an honorable mention prize for "Best Ozymandias," you had like 10 wonders in Thebes last time. 2 things jumped out at me that update. First, I probably would've Oracled Metal Casting in your position. You already had a religion from the super-late Judaism, and you could've bulbed Theology with that first Great Prophet instead of settling him if you really wanted another. Oz gets cheap forges courtesy of Industrious, that plus Organized Religion would've let you build anything you want. It's still a good play if, say, you want to rush someone with Theocracy-boosted war chariots, but still. 2nd, getting all those religions means there are fewer flying around for the AIs to fight over. Jules already converted to Buddhism in this run, so you'll have to work at making missionaries to get him back this time. That being said, the fact you're swiping all those techs with religious leaders like Gandhi in the game is a sign you're doing pretty well, heh. Super Jay Mann posted:I believe that missionary conversion chance is some percentage less than 100% (5%? 10%) per religion that already exists in a city. Yep, missionaries are only guaranteed if there's no religion in the city. According to the Wikia, it's 0/9/18/26/35/43/52% chance of failure per existing religion, and about half again worse than that if you're sending the missionary to a foreign city (worst case goes from 52% to 72% failure). So when Ramesses was sending those Jewish missionaries my way in the culture win update, each one only had a coin flip at succeeding thanks to my cities already having 4 religions, and none of them landed heads. Oh well!
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Jan 29, 2018 03:59
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Wasn't planning on posting anymore on the challenge until Jon & Jay Mann were done, but I just got the news today about an unexpected death in the family. I can't afford to go visit (I'm in the Midwest US, they're on the East, and I'm still new at my job) so it's just kind of left me in a pensive mood and needing a distraction. Who knows, maybe after a couple hours of a strategy game and Photoshop I'll be ready to fall asleep. Kind of glad this thread's going on, actually, last time something like this happened I just played Dragon Quest til 5am. This won't be for points, but nobody covered Saladin yet, and there are still outstanding requests. Let's face it, the Justinian run was a bit of a letdown. You didn't come for boring culture wins. You didn't come for cowering in our cities and praying to our variety of deities that nobody would attack us. You came for AP shenanigans. You came for blood. You came for this:  So let's begin. Saladin (Monarch) - Part 1 https://lpix.org/sslptest/index.php?id=150210 OK, that did it. Exhausted now, I'll edit and Rightload in the morning. God bless everybody, and don't forget to spend what time you can with your loved ones, you don't always get a "later."
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Jan 30, 2018 19:43
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holy poo poo I never knew about the unassign research function  I keep trying to get good at this game but it always seems like it never quite clicks. If I get out of the first 150 turns or so I'm home free, but I'm really bad at balancing early infrastructure vs workers vs cities vs military, and early research priorities. I also suspect I'm making cities too generalized but idk if that's a huge deal. (also sorry to hear about your family member wayne )
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Jan 30, 2018 20:52
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Aw, thanks.  I was going to have my vacation with his family this summer, just wild when you make plans in advance like that and then.... But that's how it goes sometimes.I hear you, actually, though I always seem to slip in the midgame (especially on Immortal, where if you have a similar number of cities as the AIs, their discounts will make you lose a head-to-head race, so you need war or strategic bulbs) rather than the beginning. For military, that goes back to the specific vs. generalized cities you touched on: if you can get a high-production Heroic Epic city, just have it make all your units to the exclusion of everything else; it'll do it twice as efficiently as anywhere else. As you get new techs, gradually add in new units. When in doubt, if you're building expensive things like markets in high-commerce cities or wonders, 2-pop whip military units and overflow into the project. Most of the units I threw at Korea in the upcoming update I whipped, and the overflow went into more units while I was in Theocracy, and into buildings the turn I switched to Organized Religion. Workers are tricky. When in doubt, as long as you have 2 each food and production tiles ready in a city, you'll churn out workers at size 4 pretty quickly (they're good 2-pop whip options too, though don't bother with overflow on them, just max production the turn you start on them; the food stagnation probably outweighs the extra hammers), so having a city build one as soon as it hits that size should help keep you up. Again, keep your eyes open for a chance to be efficient: if you have a city with a lot of food but low Happiness cap (like Chucat's bonkers 4 corn capitol in his game), have it build settlers and workers and whip, that's the best thing you can do with it. "Early research" varies a lot. The big question is: what victory do you plan on shooting for, and how long do you want the game to go? If you plan on a cuirassier/cav rush Domination, beeline the top of the tree to Music (you'll need it for Military Tradition and want the artist for a Golden Age) and then the bottom if you can trade for it and the middle if you can't and need Liberalism. You won't make many trades once you get what you want, so you can skip all the early techs you don't really need (like Masonry and Sailing) and just trade later, some AI is going to get them, and probably all of them, and who cares if they think you're becoming too advanced? Meanwhile if you're going for a longer game, like diplo or time or space, plan for the long haul, prioritizing research (Astronomy is popular here, since it's high-value trade bait and unlocks a cheaper science building than Universities) and "on the way" defensive military, like longbows and rifles. The big thing that helps research is actually going for whatever tech lines it seems like the AIs aren't, and trading for them. Strategic trades (and just selling techs, I've done that a ton in the Saladin game) gets you a lot further than whatever you research on your own. Really, the biggest piece of advice I can give here is: don't do things you don't need to (unless you want to, like you're a builder at heart or you're doing challenge runs like I do). That's a little reductive-- some people win with only granaries and barracks and whipping their cities into oblivion and never working more than like 2 food tiles-- but it helps to keep in mind, like when you go to the mall, "Do I really need this?" I mentioned markets earlier, they're a good example. First, they're 150 hammers: the price of a settler, or almost 3 workers! In exchange you get +25% gold. Well, if you have 30 commerce (which is above average to high when you unlock Currency), that's +7... when your slider is 100% money. Otherwise, that commerce is going into research. So you actually have to divide that income by the time you're actually running at full gold (now to be fair, you do get more money if you have things like Spiral Minaret or a holy shrine or merchant specialists and so on). Does it seem like a good deal? And the answer, like almost everything in this game, is "maybe." Not "yes." So just think about what's worthwhile to spend time and money (and citizens' lives  ) on before you do it and your play will get a lot better.This update is 1AD through 840AD, and covers our first war! Saladin (Monarch) - Part 2 https://lpix.org/sslptest/index.php?id=150225 At the risk of more , I started doing a "What should I have done differently?" thing at the bottom of these updates. It's a good way to review and avoid making the same mistakes next time.
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Feb 1, 2018 17:31
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I plan to continue my Noble game report though I’ve been busy this past week and will be out of town this weekend. If it’s not out tonight or tomorrow then expect it Tuesday. Spoiler alert: I get more cities but I’m not the only one...
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Feb 2, 2018 01:50
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