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Dogeh
Aug 30, 2017

ShitMeter: -------------|- 99%
Watching French in that baseradio stream made me think:

"One of the things in this picture does not belong"

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G0RF
Mar 19, 2015

Some galactic defender you are, Space Cadet.

Scruffpuff posted:

He's like the old gypsy woman in Drag Me to Hell.

Well except probably for the begging and pleading part.

“Please, please give me your bug fixes for my code, Chris!”

“Ahhhh, er well I’m afraid that’s not—“

“Please! I am begging you!”

“Heh, ahhhhh— I’m

“I am proud man, Mr. Roberts, ,and never have Ibegged for anything. But now, I beg for you to give me the code fixes. I humble myself before you.”

“Ahhhhh- come on, there’s no need —“

“I, Cevat Yerli, beg. I beg you!”

iospace posted:

What happened here exactly?

Read this. The section on Illfonic at least.

Then read this, and watch this.

The video of Roberts expressing his annoyance with circulating rumors about Star Marine and his push back against them was a bold face lie. The subcontract had by that time been terminated, the Illfonic work was on the ash heap, Roberts wrote the time and money off to start over inhouse and never mentioned a word of this until Kotaku UK had him dead to rights with a counternarrative that had multiple corroborating sources at Illfonic and the past and present CIG.

Kotaku UK did the discovery and invalidated Roberts’ Star Marine fictions, no doubt to his great displeasure. And the Star Marine story arc was not an outlier event but simply a fractal pattern repeating over and over at Micro and macro scale. 3.0 and Squadron 42 among them.

Beet Wagon
Oct 19, 2015





iospace posted:

What happened here exactly?

They gave Illfonic the wrong specs, had to throw out years of subcontractor work, and then Crobbler got on camera and berated backers about wondering why Star Marine had been literally missing for a year, despite being "weeks not months" away from release lol.

He got super owned.

Dusty Lens
Jul 1, 2015

All Glory unto the Stimpire. Give up your arms and legs and embrace the beautiful agony of electricity that doubles in pain every second.

Beet Wagon posted:

They gave Illfonic the wrong specs, had to throw out years of subcontractor work, and then Crobbler got on camera and berated backers about wondering why Star Marine had been literally missing for a year, despite being "weeks not months" away from release lol.

He got super owned.

Another example of CIG communicating specs:



Those are meant to be beds.

Beet Wagon
Oct 19, 2015





Lol, all you need to know about CIG not understanding size and specs you can learn by looking at the Avenger.

downout
Jul 6, 2009

Sarsapariller posted:

I know I'm arguing with a brick wall, but: nobody who's reading a blog about Star Citizen legal proceedings at this stage in the game is unfamiliar with the drama to date. A dramatic and wide-ranging summary is great if you are a media outlet bringing the story to ten thousand fresh new sets of eyes, but at this point the thread and your blog are basically the hardest of the hardcore special-interest demo's and you are only going to get a few dozen people at most. At that point it's better to do fun, interesting "Hot takes" on the latest stuff, followed by a really insightful and conversation-altering long-form post once every couple months, if you have a lot of new dirt to cover.

You don't know whether or not I'm a warlord. You don't know my life.

I don't know - I heard about this in 2014 and promptly forgot it for ~3 years till about a month ago. His blog was concise compared to this thread. Also the recap thread helped a lot.

Dusty Lens
Jul 1, 2015

All Glory unto the Stimpire. Give up your arms and legs and embrace the beautiful agony of electricity that doubles in pain every second.



Yes yes good people are that tall. Now email the contractor these images:



Good good.

They basically requested interiors modeled for people who stood at about a foot and a half in height, received the parped up results, shrugged and said "fukkit tomorrow's sale day" and that's been that since about 2014.

Moxxis Endowment
Dec 11, 2017

by Nyc_Tattoo

Dusty Lens posted:

Another example of CIG communicating specs:



Those are meant to be beds.
The UEE has been experiencing some pretty brutal austerity measures I see.

boviscopophobic
Feb 5, 2016

EA module usage continues to plummet. The average player counts for Jan 23 through Jan 28 are...

Star Marine: 6.8
Arena Commander: 5.1
Murray Cup: 2.2

Total: 14.1

G0RF
Mar 19, 2015

Some galactic defender you are, Space Cadet.

boviscopophobic posted:

EA module usage continues to plummet. The average player counts for Jan 23 through Jan 28 are...

Star Marine: 6.8
Arena Commander: 5.1
Murray Cup: 2.2

Total: 14.1

But Star Citizen is good? I don’t understand.

Colostomy Bag
Jan 11, 2016

:lesnick: C-Bangin' it :lesnick:

G0RF posted:

But Star Citizen is good? I don’t understand.

It's called the French Tickler.

Colostomy Bag
Jan 11, 2016

:lesnick: C-Bangin' it :lesnick:

And to add with the discovery poo poo I can imagine this would be like the "Wolf of Wall Street" type stuff.

G0RF
Mar 19, 2015

Some galactic defender you are, Space Cadet.
YOUTUBE: Disco talks Game Dev with the Space Bros

Paging SomethingJones: I’m only 2 minutes in and already slack-jawed.

“There’s no deadline. This goes on forever.”

Lando, speaking of Calling All Devs but just as well for the game itself. Listen to him as he expounds upon how much isn’t yet decided and realize that year 6 is indeed “early days” when you’ve no need for design docs because the ship sale money just never stops giving you reasons to expand scope, revise architecture, and reverse course...

kw0134
Apr 19, 2003

I buy feet pics🍆

Toops posted:

Yeah, except for the fact that CIG continues to show CryEngine source code on BugSmashers, the show where beyond incriminating themselves, they also show irrefutable proof of their incompetence, in code.
That's irreparable harm to CIG's reputation (:laugh:). At the end of the day, you can slap a price tag on most things -- including and up to a human life -- and call someone made whole if that money is paid. That's the law of remedies for you.

Fargin Icehole
Feb 19, 2011

Pet me.

Viscous Soda posted:

Okay, probably a bit late on this, but I love the way this sounds. No Star Wars-y "Pewpewpew, whoosh, zoom!" bullshit, you hear yourself firing your weapons and being hit by incoming shots. Like it would actually be in space.

If you haven't already tried it, give House of the dying sun a try. Short space game that modeled like Tie Fighter, with aesthetics similar to homeworld, and the sound is very much like this

Milkfred E. Moore
Aug 27, 2006

'It's easier to imagine the end of the world than the end of capitalism.'
Crytek must not settle.

The financials must flow.

226
Nov 24, 2014

CrazyLoon posted:

What's this? :reddit: actually premabanning over rape?! The insidious spread of the SJWs knows no bounds! :ohdear:

Don't worry Ellindar's permaban has been lifted.

Thoatse
Feb 29, 2016

Lol said the scorpion, lmao

226 posted:

Don't worry Ellindar's permaban has been lifted.


That guy is a real piece of work... he once pm'd someone I know quite well with unironic Derek Smart accusations as well as casual threats of violence... rsi mods were informed of the matter and did nothing but that guy has been this way for years

kw0134
Apr 19, 2003

I buy feet pics🍆

One thing I'd like to make clear: discovery isn't a public process. It's disclosure to the other side but it's not like it's immediately slammed into PACER for all and sundry to pick over. If there's something really embarrassing to be found, for sure it'll be used, either as evidence to be brought up or an exhibit annexed to a motion. I don't want people to think "Hurrah, it's the first day of discovery!" expecting a torrent of papers to flood forth. Some first year associate will be picking through a small mountain of documents, certainly, but that won't be visible to us.

So our excitement will have to be curbed a bit, though if we do get discovery and that leads to a host of motions back and forth using what was found as a cudgel that will be funny. But it'll be a deferred pleasure.

SomethingJones
Mar 6, 2016

<3

G0RF posted:

YOUTUBE: Disco talks Game Dev with the Space Bros

Paging SomethingJones: I’m only 2 minutes in and already slack-jawed.

“There’s no deadline. This goes on forever.”

Lando, speaking of Calling All Devs but just as well for the game itself. Listen to him as he expounds upon how much isn’t yet decided and realize that year 6 is indeed “early days” when you’ve no need for design docs because the ship sale money just never stops giving you reasons to expand scope, revise architecture, and reverse course...


@0:57

Jared Huckaby:
There's no deadline. This goes on FOREVER, from now on. This is the new Monday show.

So ba-ba-basically you just... what we're gonna do... because SPECTRUM... if you... if you look... if you look at the question and answer... or the QUESTION thread, right now, I... you'll see that I've linked the questions that have been asked for the first two episodes and linked... so people can SEE the questions that have been... ADDRESSED recently. Ahh... when I take a question and use it in a show I DELETE it from the vote, so it doesn't just keep getting votes, you know for the people who DON'T READ

But the problem is SPECTRUM doesn't have a feature, that I've requested yet, which is HIDE ALL DELETED REPLIES

So... so as a thread goes on pretty soon you will just see nothing but an AMASSING of deleted replies. So we will do... there's a reason the thread is called THE JANUARY QUESTIONS thread, every month I'll start a new questions thread. It doesn't mean that suddenly I throw out all the old ones, you guys submit questions and you guys vote on questions but there is still an element of ME CHOOSING. When I choose.. do I... the question I always have to ask is, 'DOES AN ANSWER FOR THIS QUESTION EXIST'

Because nobody wants to see fifteen minutes of, 'we don't have an answer for that yet, we don't have an answer for that yet, we don't have an answer for that yet', because this is GAME DEVELOPMENT it's not GAME CONSTRUCTION, all the answers don't exist yet. The biggest part of game development is that we are still figuring MANY of these answers out.

People ask, 'OH! WHEN YOU HAVE FIFTY STAR SYSTEMS IN PLACE HOW WILL I DO THIS', and the answer to that is almost always, "WE DON'T NEED THAT ANSWER UNTIL WE HAVE FORTY FIVE STAR SYSTEMS IN PLACE", so nobody's thinking about that right now.

So, um... ahl... ahm... the first question I always have to ask myself is, 'look at the ones that are voted', and then I have to go to myself, 'IS THERE AN ANSWER FOR THAT'. and if there is? BOOM! It goes on the list and I go and I track someone down. Ahm... oh... a lot of times... because I don't wanna just IGNORE things... sometimes what you need... what the COMMUNITY needs to hear is that there's NO ANSWER for that.

So that... that goes to the 300i question from... uhm... ah... the other week, you know, 'WHEN IS THE 300i REWORK HAPPENING?', oh, it's not gonna happen for, you know, til the end of the year. Everybody's like, 'WELL THAT'S NOT AN ANSWER', well yeah, it IS AN ANSWER

That. Is. An. Answer. It EXISTS. There's NO OTHER INFORMATION about the 300i rework because that doesn't START until quarter 4 of this year. So nobody is spending any TIME figuring out what they're gonna do yet, because they're... that answer is not NECESSARY now. We don't have to have that answer until quarter 4 or quarter 3 at the absolute earliest.

So... you know... the... there's a MIX, it's... if I try not to do too many questions that don't have, uhm... real SEXY ANSWERS to them but at the same time if it's a question that's getting enough votes, if it's a question that's been asked enough times, sexy answer or not, you guys need to... you guys need to get the answer that DOES EXIST, and sometimes the answer that does exist is, 'WE HAVE NO IDEA'

Gramps
Dec 30, 2006


boviscopophobic posted:

EA module usage continues to plummet. The average player counts for Jan 23 through Jan 28 are...

Star Marine: 6.8
Arena Commander: 5.1
Murray Cup: 2.2

Total: 14.1

How can a game that literally nobody plays still be bringing in hundreds of thousands of dollars a month? There are watching paint dry simulators on steam with bigger playerbases.

Toops
Nov 5, 2015

-find mood stabilizers
-also,

Scruffpuff posted:

They don't develop anything anyway aside from ship art, and the occasional tweak to the camera movement in the model viewer they're calling the PU. I think they'll be able to keep selling ships just fine without computers on which to build them. Particularly since backers have proven beyond reasonable doubt that they'll buy anything on the website as long as it has a price tag, which let's face it, everything at CIG does.

:same:

CIG is so deeply entrenched in their culture of loving around, making no progress, and lying to backers, then misdirecting with more sales, that it would kind of be absurd for them to change now. It works in the short term. Medium-term? CIG goes tits up, but I firmly believe most if not all of CIG is at least subconsciously resigned to that now. Long-term? We're all dead.

Dusty Lens
Jul 1, 2015

All Glory unto the Stimpire. Give up your arms and legs and embrace the beautiful agony of electricity that doubles in pain every second.

Lando is a really weird follow up act for half a decade of Chris saying exactly what will happen at all points in development.

Gramps posted:

How can a game that literally nobody plays still be bringing in hundreds of thousands of dollars a month? There are watching paint dry simulators on steam with bigger playerbases.

Dreams and money laundering.

SomethingJones
Mar 6, 2016

<3
So how are they scheduling these things if they don't know what they are or what is involved or how long it will take. They just scheduled an entire year's worth of stuff which means you need to know a year in advance how it will work so you know how long it will take.

Here's CIG scheduling things and publishing a roadmap with no spec or design or clue how the stuff scheduled for Q4 will work when they're almost halfway through Q1. gently caress me.

Dusty Lens
Jul 1, 2015

All Glory unto the Stimpire. Give up your arms and legs and embrace the beautiful agony of electricity that doubles in pain every second.

SomethingJones posted:

So how are they scheduling these things if they don't know what they are or what is involved or how long it will take. They just scheduled an entire year's worth of stuff which means you need to know a year in advance how it will work so you know how long it will take.

Here's CIG scheduling things and publishing a roadmap with no spec or design or clue how the stuff scheduled for Q4 will work when they're almost halfway through Q1. gently caress me.

Combining a new roadmap, the promises of quarterly updates and a confession that they have no idea where they are, where they're going or how long it'll take to get there might just be crazy enough to work.

thatguy
Feb 5, 2003

Beet Wagon posted:

Lol, all you need to know about CIG not understanding size and specs you can learn by looking at the Avenger.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hf8XI30QKJI

G0RF
Mar 19, 2015

Some galactic defender you are, Space Cadet.
Lando talks about another start of year Big Summit...

Jake Ross spoke memorably of the CIG LA Big Summit that set that year’s agenda and priorities. There doesn’t appear to be a bigger plan than what gets worked up each January to last them until December.

Later quote:

“We’re trying very, very hard not to get you guys’ hopes up.”

Lando laments the burden of meeting backers expectations (that Chris helps set...)

:chanpop: (but :lol: at Ubernerd’s hilarious reaction... He looks like Orson Wells performing Donald Sutherland’s final shot in Invasion of the Body Snatchers.)

Oh my lord this is just insane. Insane that he’s bristling about this. You can’t profit from selling the hope and then cry foul when you deliver the ‘nope!’ and people call you out for it, Lando!

It’s called basic accountability and if Chris had a conscience about your ill-gotten gains you'd feel shame for it. I mean get serious man— you’ve raised a Rockstar Level budget, you talk smack about AAA publishers and say “come at us!”, and then you want to bemoan people judging your delivery record against your own stated targets? Get over yourselves. You want the freedom to be haughty, bold and ambitious, right? Then how on earth can you expect to be measured gently, tenderly, cautiously?

Chris Roberts — YOUR SPOKEMAN — set the unrealistic expectations you chafe against. You’re mad because people are parsing your newer content for features some Dev said would be in 3.2 when it might not be? Guess what? Chris set the original 3.2 expectations a year and a half ago. And you reaped a fortune from that, remember? And then you guys delivered 1/4th of Chris’s 3.0 a year late in an unplayable state and 3.1, 3.2, 3.3 all got pushed back and they’re still getting pushed back because you keep changing your targets and have no fixed plans. Maybe you should give back 75% of the money you earned off the back of that Hype before you whine about being held accountable for falling short.

Yes it’s a double edged sword Lando, maybe Chris should stop gripping it by the blade and then complaining when you cut yourselves swinging it.

Listen to him talking about how they want to be judged on style not just substance. Don’t take my summary of it for granted — hear it in his own words. He’s complaining about things being lost in summarization and via subjective parsing. Hear it for yourselves and make your own judgments.

G0RF fucked around with this message at 02:29 on Jan 29, 2018

Toops
Nov 5, 2015

-find mood stabilizers
-also,

kw0134 posted:

One thing I'd like to make clear: discovery isn't a public process. It's disclosure to the other side but it's not like it's immediately slammed into PACER for all and sundry to pick over. If there's something really embarrassing to be found, for sure it'll be used, either as evidence to be brought up or an exhibit annexed to a motion. I don't want people to think "Hurrah, it's the first day of discovery!" expecting a torrent of papers to flood forth. Some first year associate will be picking through a small mountain of documents, certainly, but that won't be visible to us.

So our excitement will have to be curbed a bit, though if we do get discovery and that leads to a host of motions back and forth using what was found as a cudgel that will be funny. But it'll be a deferred pleasure.

I'm tired of deferred pleasure. I want blood.

Sidebar: What are the chances that, in discovery, larger crimes are discovered like fraud, larceny, embezzlement, etc? What's the score here, do those things have to be tried separately?

I'm not satisfied until people like Ortwin and Roberts are serving punitive penalties up to and including jail time in a federal pound me in the rear end prison.

SomethingJones
Mar 6, 2016

<3
Disco Lando on Spacebros
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cDEYHlN0qUM

@


Jared Huckaby:





gently caress it guys, you know what I can't do any more of this one and I'll tell you why. The Spacebros guys are all there onscreen and I can't look at their faces because I know they're all being scammed and fleeced and I just can't.

SomethingJones
Mar 6, 2016

<3

kw0134 posted:

One thing I'd like to make clear: discovery isn't a public process. It's disclosure to the other side but it's not like it's immediately slammed into PACER for all and sundry to pick over. If there's something really embarrassing to be found, for sure it'll be used, either as evidence to be brought up or an exhibit annexed to a motion. I don't want people to think "Hurrah, it's the first day of discovery!" expecting a torrent of papers to flood forth. Some first year associate will be picking through a small mountain of documents, certainly, but that won't be visible to us.

So our excitement will have to be curbed a bit, though if we do get discovery and that leads to a host of motions back and forth using what was found as a cudgel that will be funny. But it'll be a deferred pleasure.

Whilst this is true, it is also true that Derek had foreknowledge of the Skadden response to CIG's MTD.

Dusty Lens
Jul 1, 2015

All Glory unto the Stimpire. Give up your arms and legs and embrace the beautiful agony of electricity that doubles in pain every second.

Lando collecting a regular paycheck which he is actively soliciting people to give money to support and shouting at other gaming companies to come up to their level doesn't make for the most graceful backdrop for a hard switch into moaning about people asking where all the poo poo they paid for is.

But I guess I don't understand saying I'm a developer development.

Flared Basic Bitch
Feb 22, 2005

Invading your personal space since 1968.

Dusty Lens posted:

If you know the answers to any of these you lose. If you google any of them you lose.

Who was the original consciousness of the Matoran Universe before Mata Nui?

Which Toa mahri wore the Kanohi Faxon, and what is it's power?

How many types of Krana are there?

Who was the first Toa?

Malachite already got the Metru Nui one using what I can only presume is the insane power of Bionicle nerds as opposed to tapping into the collective knowledge of the internet.

Mods, this is looking suspiciously like anime to me.

SoftNum
Mar 31, 2011

quote:

"WE DON'T NEED THAT ANSWER UNTIL WE HAVE FORTY FIVE STAR SYSTEMS IN PLACE", so nobody's thinking about that right now.

That pretty much sums up Star Citizen doesn't it.

Star Citizen - nobody's thinking about that right now.

SomethingJones
Mar 6, 2016

<3

SoftNum posted:

That pretty much sums up Star Citizen doesn't it.

Star Citizen - nobody's thinking about that right now.

Maybe they should have started thinking about these things, oh, I don't know, when THEY PUT IT ON loving SALE

Reuben Sandwich
Jan 27, 2007

kw0134 posted:

One thing I'd like to make clear: discovery isn't a public process. It's disclosure to the other side but it's not like it's immediately slammed into PACER for all and sundry to pick over. If there's something really embarrassing to be found, for sure it'll be used, either as evidence to be brought up or an exhibit annexed to a motion. I don't want people to think "Hurrah, it's the first day of discovery!" expecting a torrent of papers to flood forth. Some first year associate will be picking through a small mountain of documents, certainly, but that won't be visible to us.

So our excitement will have to be curbed a bit, though if we do get discovery and that leads to a host of motions back and forth using what was found as a cudgel that will be funny. But it'll be a deferred pleasure.
They just can't ask for random stuff, it has to be specific items to the argument. Right? Could they ask for the actual sales figures to find the royalties?

Are depositions also part of the discovery process?

Could Derek be brought in as an expert witnes?

Quavers
Feb 26, 2016

You clearly don't understand game development

Toops posted:

You say this as if CIG is competent enough to know all the different repos, hard drives, and cloud servers their source is currently residing on :)

What I fully expect (and I have seen first-hand) is that, upon entering discovery, all relevant computers, laptops, and servers are physically confiscated. All cloud-based source-control repos are frozen, with credentials given to the proper authorities. If they really enter discovery, I would expect this to bring CIG's development to a complete stand-still. The funny thing is, this stand-still will be completely imperceptible, because CIG has no feature velocity in the first place.

You this be CryTek's goal then, to cause a total freeze of Star Citizen's & Squadron 42's development, if even just for a few months?

tooterfish
Jul 13, 2013

Quavers posted:

You this be CryTek's goal then, to cause a total freeze of Star Citizen's & Squadron 42's development, if even just for a few months?
Who'd even loving notice?

trucutru
Jul 9, 2003

by Fluffdaddy

SomethingJones posted:


People ask, 'OH! WHEN YOU HAVE FIFTY STAR SYSTEMS IN PLACE HOW WILL I DO THIS', and the answer to that is almost always, "WE DON'T NEED THAT ANSWER UNTIL WE HAVE FORTY FIVE STAR SYSTEMS IN PLACE", so nobody's thinking about that right now.

Holy poo poo piss!!!! :piss:

Experimental Skin
Apr 16, 2016

Jared Huckaby posted:

People ask, 'OH! WHEN YOU HAVE FIFTY STAR SYSTEMS IN PLACE HOW WILL I DO THIS', and the answer to that is almost always, "WE DON'T NEED THAT ANSWER UNTIL WE HAVE FORTY FIVE STAR SYSTEMS IN PLACE", so nobody's thinking about that right now.

Star Citizen: Nobody's Thinking About That Right Now

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no_recall
Aug 17, 2015

Lipstick Apathy

kw0134 posted:

Annoying effort legal post incoming!

The motion will get denied, as it is being filed under FRCP 12(b)6. This particular rule in the charming Federal Rules of Civil Procedure handbook states that a motion can be filed in defense "for failure to state a claim for which relief can be granted." This denial is indisputable and inarguable because the standard for a dismissal under FRCP rule 12(b)6 is "In appraising the sufficiency of a complaint for failure to state a claim is that a complaint should not be dismissed ...unless it appears beyond doubt that the plaintiff can prove no set of facts in support of his claim which would entitle him to relief." Conley v. Gibson (1957), 355 U.S. 41 (emphasis added). That's a SCOTUS ruling; this binds all the courts in the Federal system, including our little district court.

That is to say, the standard is to weed out the cases that are either totally incompatible with the legal system -- alleging a witch put an evil eye on a child, say. Or asking for declaratory ruling that you're the God King of Arrakis. As the rule says, there's no "relief" available to such a claim in the law or equity; we do not recognize the outcome or we do not recognize that this is a "thing" for which you can sue someone over. Really technical analysis of the claims can be very hair-splitting if the elements of the law that support the claim are complex. But if you read that tiny excerpt from the ruling (which is part of every 1L's CivPro syllabus) then there's no objective way to grant the motion, because Crytek's claims are pretty straightforward: there exists a contract, CIG broke it, Crytek was harmed, give us money.

See, whether or not we get to the actual merits of the claims in the response, CIG has already severely hosed up by trying to substitute Crytek's facts with their own. "Unless it appears beyond doubt that the plaintiff can prove no set of facts in support of his claim." CIG does NOT get to do that. You do NOT get to say "well if my version of the facts are right, then you must dismiss!" NO! That's what 1L students gently caress up and civpro professors have to hammer that in to their thick skulls. You dismiss if you look at it under every possible angle and can't find a way to proceed. The standard is so high that it's almost never granted when a cause of action is brought by an actual trained lawyer since it's for obvious losers and they should be getting laughed out of the attorney's office, nevermind at the stage that you're reading your rubbish case in front of a judge.

I looked at the table of contents on the response, saw that CIG was trying to argue on the merits and closed the PDF. If you have to argue the very facts of the case, guess what dumbass? You've got an actual "case or controversy" ripe for judicial intervention! You've proven to the court that procedurally it should hear both sides because the one side where Crytek's facts prevail, CIG is hosed. On the one hand if the response is true, CIG is not hosed. And the only way to do that...is to go through the entire process of holding a trial and evaluating evidence! Congratulations CIG, you forgot basic CivPro. I'm hope you're happy.

(I am because this is hilarious to me)

This is a good post :five:

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