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fivegears4reverse posted:Rian Johnson made bad movie Counter-point: He made a good movie.
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Jan 29, 2018 10:35
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Wheat Loaf posted:Something I am curious about : what level of input does Disney (as opposed to Lucasfilm) have in the production of the Star Wars movies? How does it divvy up between them? It's pretty clear Kathleen Kennedy likes to keep sending in her stupid notes and keep changing directors to ruin the Star Wars movies. Notice how Ryan Johnson is out there battling the fans on twitter and KK hasn't said a word to defend her director? that Mary poppin thing wasn't even RJ's idea, it was KK's idea! She is totally going to throw RJ under the bus and cancel the broom boy trilogy.
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Jan 29, 2018 11:10
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whatever7 posted:that Mary poppin thing wasn't even RJ's idea, it was KK's idea! Really?
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Jan 29, 2018 11:12
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Milky Moor posted:Two characters thinking about tossing out the philosophy of the entire series, and then not doing it. A New Hope challenged Star Wars's philosophy by having Han reject Leia's false 'revolution' and instead just take the money! What? No, I stopped watching after that.
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Jan 29, 2018 12:20
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The idea that TLJ is a “bad movie” is loving stupid as poo poo to me. I get not liking it, but come on.
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Jan 29, 2018 12:36
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Wheat Loaf posted:Really? It was mentioned in one of the interviews. I have watched too many youtube autoplayed to remember which one.
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Jan 29, 2018 12:52
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Milky Moor posted:Two characters thinking about tossing out the philosophy of the entire series, and then not doing it. They do a bit though. Neither is wholesale good or bad. There's no sith, kylo is a selfish child off his leash. And Rey knows almost nothing about the force except to believe in it. Luke has already been trained by two masters at this point and is just focused on his father's redemption. Rey also doesn't see the force as a weapon, which years of myth telling has turned it into for the Jedi, but something to work through. And just having the discussion is refreshing in a stale franchise that usually just resorts to "cool" lightsaber colors to shake things up. fivegears4reverse posted:Rian Johnson made bad movie where most of the screen time was spent placating people like you as opposed to telling a good story. It followed through on next to nothing. The past wasn't thrown out or killed, it was blatantly borrowed from to recreate scenes from. Placating? They don't throw out the original cast so no they didn't. You mean giving us an actual story beyond making a character related to the old cast? I guess? You folks are acting like the originals weren't just decent flicks with awesome tech. Star wars is shallow as gently caress, the new series being about the new cast trying to find their place in the old franchise is a decent jumping point. If they threw out everything about the og and picked it up way later, I'd have been on board and it's why I'm excited for RJs trilogy. But they didn't because people like you need to see your old action figures slamming into each other again. Nuance is all throughout this movie, Luke's cut himself off from the force because he doesn't trust himself. It takes an attack from someone asking for his teachings that takes him to reconnect, much like when he disconnected from "attacking" his student. Rey has blocked her past to give her a reason to keep going, much like memento, she's on a constant search for the parents she doesn't want to meet. Kylo hates himself because he's forced to kill everyone he actually loves because he thinks it will unlock some secret power inside of him. The Kylo and rey scenes frankly poo poo on the rest of the series in terms of acting. Daisy's wordless looks of hate to confusion to acceptance is better than the series has ever gotten. Rey rejects kylo because he's a selfish dick who tells her to let her friends die so they can be a power couple. He's screaming she doesn't get it because he's not talking sith and Jedi, but she knows this, which is when she goes for the sword. I like how the movie shows it doesn't kill anyone, rebels are far back, you can see the damage it actually does from the inside, but you've gotta make up a grievance. If you listened to what she was saying, the blast is supposed to be the mirror of that, in that, just like the attack, the blast failed to harm anyone because everyone put their faith in love (Luke), unlike the first order which is running on hate. This might be that nuance stuff you said wasn't their though. bushisms.txt fucked around with this message at 13:01 on Jan 29, 2018 |
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Jan 29, 2018 12:57
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bushisms.txt posted:Daisy's acting haha xD edit: what i'm saying is the script bad, she's not adam driver who is sexy and smouldering
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Jan 29, 2018 13:08
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People will continue to enjoy FAILING Star Wars so long as it has lightsabers and spaceships and aliens. That's what people go to it for. (It's what I most enjoy about it.)
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Jan 29, 2018 13:11
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are kylo and snoke sith or not because some people who like TLJ say they obviously are but others like you say they're obviously not
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Jan 29, 2018 13:12
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CelticPredator posted:The idea that TLJ is a “good movie” is loving stupid as poo poo to me. I get liking it, but come on.
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Jan 29, 2018 13:37
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Milky Moor posted:are kylo and snoke sith or not because some people who like TLJ say they obviously are but others like you say they're obviously not They're not sith. Snoke is wearing gold to show he's just a really strong force user just like Rey, even count dooku wore the sith uniform, while Kylo is a Vader cosplayer. Snoke just wants a Vader sidekick by his side so people will look at them to replace the empire, which according to dj ain't that bad. Don't forget this is just two armies scrabbling to rule the rest of the universe. Technically, Rey isn't a Jedi, she's *new*Jedi. Hux and kylo say, the supreme leader/Jedi is Dead, long live the supreme leader/Jedi. When did the empire become the bad guys to the universe? Did they? The emperor takes over and they kill the separatists... Then the rebels start up because Organa knows that the emperor is evil? But does anyone else? Is the franchise about just the most famous galactic terrorists?
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Jan 29, 2018 13:59
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CelticPredator posted:The idea that TLJ is a “bad movie” is loving stupid as poo poo to me. I get not liking it, but come on. TLJ is probably the second best Stark Wars but come on, you are the ultimate negative poster and constantly are calling good movies bad.
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Jan 29, 2018 14:08
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Disgusting
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Jan 29, 2018 14:36
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UmOk posted:TLJ is probably the second best Stark Wars but come on, you are the ultimate negative poster and constantly are calling good movies bad. Shhhhh don't point out the schadenfreude!
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Jan 29, 2018 14:41
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bushisms.txt posted:They're not sith. Snoke is wearing gold to show he's just a really strong force user just like Rey, even count dooku wore the sith uniform, while Kylo is a Vader cosplayer. Snoke just wants a Vader sidekick by his side so people will look at them to replace the empire, which according to dj ain't that bad. Don't forget this is just two armies scrabbling to rule the rest of the universe. Technically, Rey isn't a Jedi, she's *new*Jedi. Hux and kylo say, the supreme leader/Jedi is Dead, long live the supreme leader/Jedi. Cause Rey wears gold? And the Sith have a uniform? And these new Jedi will be using the ancient Jedi texts and the wisdom passed down from Luke and Yoda, yeah? Like, what in the poo poo are you talking about
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Jan 29, 2018 14:58
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bushisms.txt posted:Nuance is all throughout this movie, Luke's cut himself off from the force because he doesn't trust himself. It takes an attack from someone asking for his teachings that takes him to reconnect, much like when he disconnected from "attacking" his student. I don’t see the similarity between the two scenes you’re trying to connect here at all. But I have to ask: can you really put ”attacking” in scare quotes when a middle-aged man sneaks into his nephew's bedroom in the middle of the night and pulls his sword out in order to murder him? There's having a “moment of weakness” and then there's, well, that.
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Jan 29, 2018 15:14
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Zoran posted:I don’t see the similarity between the two scenes you’re trying to connect here at all. But I have to ask: can you really put ”attacking” in scare quotes when a middle-aged man sneaks into his nephew's bedroom in the middle of the night and pulls his sword out in order to murder him? There's having a “moment of weakness” and then there's, well, that. There is no reliable view of that scene
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Jan 29, 2018 15:15
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Unoriginal Name posted:Cause Rey wears gold? And the Sith have a uniform? And these new Jedi will be using the ancient Jedi texts and the wisdom passed down from Luke and Yoda, yeah? No, Rey is a nobody, so is Snoke. Them being connected to no one is one of the running themes of the sequels. The sith all wear black, dooku, mal, Vader, Luke when captured, so Snoke wearing gold is a visual indicator to nerds that he's not one of them. Luke hasn't actually read the text, and since they're on an island almost no one knew about, it's safe to say most Jedi haven't actually read it. To take from smg, the Jedi have been preaching the word of God without actually reading the Hebrew. So Daisy would be the first"true" Jedi in awhile if she were to adhere to the text instead of whatever they've been teaching that constantly leads to evil jedi like dooku, Anakin and Ben. Zoran posted:I don’t see the similarity between the two scenes you’re trying to connect here at all. But I have to ask: can you really put ”attacking” in scare quotes when a middle-aged man sneaks into his nephew's bedroom in the middle of the night and pulls his sword out in order to murder him? There's having a “moment of weakness” and then there's, well, that. It's in quotes because either way it's an attack. Luke not being mid swing and Ben being a scared child can both be true. And the connection is that he trusts she's not going to kill him like the last one, even when she's lit up all bad rear end from the saber. bushisms.txt fucked around with this message at 15:21 on Jan 29, 2018 |
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Jan 29, 2018 15:16
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euphronius posted:There is no reliable view of that scene Those elements are acknowledged in every account of the event
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Jan 29, 2018 15:16
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Zoran posted:Those elements are acknowledged in every account of the event I dont remember but is Luke's saber on during his pov of the scene ?
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Jan 29, 2018 15:18
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euphronius posted:I dont remember but is Luke's saber on during his pov of the scene ? Yes. But it's not raised as much. Ben sees Luke pumping himself up, but Luke isn't even looking at him out of shame
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Jan 29, 2018 15:22
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euphronius posted:I dont remember but is Luke's saber on during his pov of the scene ? Luke's first version: he went to talk to Ben; Ben flipped out and attacked him. Kylo's version: Luke went to kill him; he defended himself. Luke's second version: he went to talk to Ben; freaked out and thought about killing him then immediately got over himself; Ben flipped out and defended himself/attacked him.
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Jan 29, 2018 15:23
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euphronius posted:I dont remember but is Luke's saber on during his pov of the scene ? I believe it is in his retelling after Rey confronts him, and he excuses it as a moment of pure instinct
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Jan 29, 2018 15:23
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euphronius posted:There is no reliable view of that scene The minutiae don't matter; Luke dun hosed up. It was poorly done.
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Jan 29, 2018 15:23
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The first version notably only shows Ben's retaliation.Corky Romanovsky posted:The minutiae don't matter; Luke dun hosed up. It was poorly done. Or, it was a character moment.
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Jan 29, 2018 15:24
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bushisms.txt posted:The first version notably only shows Ben's retaliation. THats what confuses me apparently.
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Jan 29, 2018 15:25
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bushisms.txt posted:The first version notably only shows Ben's retaliation. Luke definitely doesn't have his lightsaber out in that one, though. It's just Ben using the Force to blow him away and collapse his hut on top of him.
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Jan 29, 2018 15:27
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I really enjoyed the running theme of "don't meet your heroes, they might be assholes." Finn tells Rose he's just trying to help his friend, he even has proof she can understand. Poe just wants to win and how come everyone's mad he doesn't care about his squad mates as anymore than decoys? Luke just wants to suck a titty? Loved Rey explaining the rotj plot to Luke, and Luke being like, "no, I kinda suck. Oh you talked to Ben, yeah I told ya."
bushisms.txt fucked around with this message at 15:46 on Jan 29, 2018 |
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Jan 29, 2018 15:43
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bushisms.txt posted:So Daisy would be the first"true" Jedi in awhile if she were to adhere to the text instead of whatever they've been teaching that constantly leads to evil jedi like dooku, Anakin and Ben. I object to the idea that this is kind of thing—moving beyond the old failures and finding the path of the true Jedi—is either novel or clever, because the whole point of Luke's story in the original films is exactly this: he must grow beyond the failed Jedi teachings that led to fascism and turned people like Anakin Skywalker into galactic terrors. Luke's Skywalker bloodline doesn’t actually afford him exceptionally strong magic powers (relative to the other people with that particular talent). He shows no more skill with the Force than, say, Obi-Wan. In the end his potential for defeating the Sith doesn’t have anything at all to do with his genetic gifts. He wins because he shows true compassion and self-sacrifice and in turn inspires those things in his fallen father. He sees beyond the prejudices that make his teachers so certain there is no coming back from the dark side.
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Jan 29, 2018 15:45
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Zoran posted:I object to the idea that this is kind of thing—moving beyond the old failures and finding the path of the true Jedi—is either novel or clever, because the whole point of Luke's story in the original films is exactly this: he must grow beyond the failed Jedi teachings that led to fascism and turned people like Anakin Skywalker into galactic terrors. Luke's Skywalker bloodline doesn’t actually afford him exceptionally strong magic powers (relative to the other people with that particular talent). He shows no more skill with the Force than, say, Obi-Wan. In the end his potential for defeating the Sith doesn’t have anything at all to do with his genetic gifts. He wins because he shows true compassion and self-sacrifice and in turn inspires those things in his fallen father. He sees beyond the prejudices that make his teachers so certain there is no coming back from the dark side. Why did they cast Mark Hamill to play this other guy then?
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Jan 29, 2018 15:50
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Zoran posted:I object to the idea that this is kind of thing—moving beyond the old failures and finding the path of the true Jedi—is either novel or clever, because the whole point of Luke's story in the original films is exactly this: he must grow beyond the failed Jedi teachings that led to fascism and turned people like Anakin Skywalker into galactic terrors. Luke's Skywalker bloodline doesn’t actually afford him exceptionally strong magic powers (relative to the other people with that particular talent). He shows no more skill with the Force than, say, Obi-Wan. In the end his potential for defeating the Sith doesn’t have anything at all to do with his genetic gifts. He wins because he shows true compassion and self-sacrifice and in turn inspires those things in his fallen father. He sees beyond the prejudices that make his teachers so certain there is no coming back from the dark side. No it's not. You should watch the movies again. The originals are about Luke learning in the "good" way that Obi wan and Yoda both teach him. It's why Luke says I'm a Jedi like my father. Yoda using lightning to destroy the temple says more about "out with the old" than whatever you think you're pulling from in the OT. bushisms.txt fucked around with this message at 15:56 on Jan 29, 2018 |
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Jan 29, 2018 15:52
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Obi wan and Yoda want Luke to kill Vader .
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Jan 29, 2018 15:57
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Well with that same roundabout language that Obi wan used about Vader killing his father, didn't Luke set out and do just that by turning him back to the light(whatever that means)? That's why I'm glad Rey is more grey than anything, I like that her response to kylo is to grab the light saber.
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Jan 29, 2018 16:00
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The out with the old ‘theme’ in these sequels is incredibly arrogant since they’re essentially remaking the OT but much much worse.
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Jan 29, 2018 16:00
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bushisms.txt posted:No, Rey is a nobody, so is Snoke. Them being connected to no one is one of the running themes of the sequels. The sith all wear black, dooku, mal, Vader, Luke when captured, so Snoke wearing gold is a visual indicator to nerds that he's not one of them. But doesn't Kylo wear black?
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Jan 29, 2018 16:01
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bushisms.txt posted:No it's not. You should watch the movies again. The originals are about Luke learning in the "good" way that Obi wan and Yoda both teach him. It's why Luke says I'm a Jedi like my father. Yoda using lightning to destroy the temple says more about "out with the old" than whatever you think you're pulling from in the OT. Luke's use of "Jedi" is far more inclusive than Yoda & Obi-Wan's. Which is why it can include Vader in the first place. Luke wins by learning from Yoda and Obi Wan, but not by following their lead. He embraces them all as brothers.
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Jan 29, 2018 16:03
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CODChimera posted:But doesn't Kylo wear black? He wants to be Vader, Vader wears black and a mask, so he does too. But he's not sith, even Snoke can see that. He's a kid playing dress up in his grandad's ss uniform and not understanding what it is other than it makes people afraid of him. sassassin posted:Luke's use of "Jedi" is far more inclusive than Yoda & Obi-Wan's. Which is why it can include Vader in the first place. No, he fails, and then rejoins the good side after almost killing his dad. Obi and Yoda are ashamed, just like Luke is of Ben. sponges posted:The out with the old ‘theme’ in these sequels is incredibly arrogant since they’re essentially remaking the OT but much much worse. Just like Rocky 2, calling this a remake of the original is a mistake. Sure they share momentary sign posts, but the characters are all in very different places arc wise and they all have very different motivations. bushisms.txt fucked around with this message at 16:17 on Jan 29, 2018 |
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Jan 29, 2018 16:12
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Luke risks the paths to the darkside that Obi-Wan and Yoda fear, and proves strong enough to resist its lure. He saves the galaxy from tyranny by doing what they could not.
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Jan 29, 2018 16:18
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In the old EU, Luke actually joins the Dark Side for a time, until Leia stops him. So I can't tell if Luke turning away from the force is worse or better than that. I don't think the TLJ script made sufficient use of human pain and emotion with Luke. You know how some people stop believing in God because something terrible happens? It's like that, but with The Force. At the start of ANH, Luke's just a happy normal teen with dead parents. Then his aunt and uncle are murdered horribly, his best friend Biggs dies, his mentors die, his father dies, plus various dead soldiers. He gains a new sister and in-law friend, and they have a baby. But then Ben goes evil, Luke fucks up, and their family is ruined again. That's a lot of poo poo for a guy to go through.  Luke's status in TLJ makes more sense in this context.
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Jan 29, 2018 16:21
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