Star Citizen: Death of a Space Thread?

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peter gabriel: Nov 8, 2011; Hello Commandos

What happens if *insert anything at all ever here*?

No one knows

gently caress it I am posting this again

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ydyy-frH1-U

# ? Jan 29, 2018 22:51

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# ? May 22, 2024 02:19

Beet Wagon: Oct 19, 2015

Daztek posted:

Soon he's going to mocap fish for Starnautica

Reddit's got you covered on that one

quote:

Would be amazing if they not only create realistic water, but add procedurally generated underwater content to their water planets.

# ? Jan 29, 2018 22:53

XK: Jul 9, 2001; Star Citizen is everywhere. It is all around us. Even now, in this very room. You can see it's fidelity when you look out your window or when you watch youtube

If CIG sells a submarine, I might have to tap out.

# ? Jan 29, 2018 22:54

Dogeh: Aug 30, 2017; ShitMeter: -------------|- 99%

SomethingJones posted:

Welcome.

That's a conditional transcript btw, I want to see that posted in response to Lando on r/games and him asked to confirm if this is the information from November 2017 he is referring to.

Jonesy, you do God's work.
I couldn't sit through five minutes of those idiots and their rambling nonsense.

# ? Jan 29, 2018 22:54

peter gabriel: Nov 8, 2011; Hello Commandos

Beet Wagon posted:

Reddit's got you covered on that one

These people have yet to figure out that the 'universe was created by Chris, crayon sticking out of his mouth thinking really hard "Sand level, fire level, ice level, erm, erm WATER LEVEL!"

# ? Jan 29, 2018 22:55

thatguy: Feb 5, 2003

I've already got a solid call on submarines from a few hundred pages ago.

# ? Jan 29, 2018 22:55

peter gabriel: Nov 8, 2011; Hello Commandos

thatguy posted:

I've already got a solid call on submarines from a few hundred pages ago.

Procedurally generated submarines

# ? Jan 29, 2018 22:55

Dusty Lens: Jul 1, 2015; All Glory unto the Stimpire. Give up your arms and legs and embrace the beautiful agony of electricity that doubles in pain every second.

G0RF posted:

YOUTUBE: Calling All Devs - Episode 3

Let the parsing begin...

I'm excited to read the VD store one.

# ? Jan 29, 2018 22:55

Colostomy Bag: Jan 11, 2016; C-Bangin' it

Their engineering debt makes them excel in things that are underwater.

# ? Jan 29, 2018 22:56

G0RF: Mar 19, 2015; Some galactic defender you are, Space Cadet.

Cheers to Luke Pressly for being straight about the missions presently ingame.

Not all fun, many are bugged, but while Lando was praising the game to high heaven yesterday, Luke stays on the ground and just talks present (frustrating) state and future targets. And when the follow-up question goes out of his domain, he doesn�t make crap up, he tells Lando to talk to a Systems guy.

This actually is good for Star Citizen. Why is it so rare?

# ? Jan 29, 2018 22:56

XK: Jul 9, 2001; Star Citizen is everywhere. It is all around us. Even now, in this very room. You can see it's fidelity when you look out your window or when you watch youtube

thatguy posted:

I've already got a solid call on submarines from a few hundred pages ago.

I called that they would be insane enough to pull the "wrong company" defense in their legal response, so I'm solid with letting you have the submarine.

# ? Jan 29, 2018 22:57

The Titanic: Sep 15, 2016; Unsinkable

Taintrunner posted:

But this is the whole thing! I remember Lando going on stage at GDC and loving bragging about uploading a thousand goddamn Youtube videos. For a game that is nowhere closer to release than it was back in 2012. Who the gently caress is watching a thousand goddamn Youtube videos, many of which are around an hour long if not more?! Great, you have hundreds of hours of public facing footage of how amazing your game is going to be. Nobody wants that at this point. They want either A) the loving space game with the space ships that go blamma-boom pew-pew-pew or they want B) the HBO miniseries about what a loving disaster this entire production was from the start, with Rob Riggle in the lead role or who the gently caress ever, and Henry Cavill reprising his role as that Superman guy in the mocap suit.

Just curious but out of those thousands of videos, how many minutes (hours?) of people actually playing the game are there? Not somebody in an editor, or doctored footage of �gameplay�?

It�d be cool to know that, then calculate the total hours of video for a ratio of actual gameplay vs bullshit charting.

# ? Jan 29, 2018 22:59

Beef Hardcheese: Jan 21, 2003; HOW ABOUT I LASH YOUR SHIT

I did the needful and posted on reddit. Fingers crossed I get some kind of response, but not holding my breath... https://www.reddit.com/r/Games/comments/7tkmc3/star_citizen_dev_you_cannot_collect_ships_by/dtfjcoh/

# ? Jan 29, 2018 22:59

Dusty Lens: Jul 1, 2015; All Glory unto the Stimpire. Give up your arms and legs and embrace the beautiful agony of electricity that doubles in pain every second.

G0RF posted:

This actually is good for Star Citizen. Why is it so rare?

Probably because there are likely more efficient ways to make sure you never again get asked to show up in a CIG video.

# ? Jan 29, 2018 23:01

SPERMCUBE.ORG: Nov 3, 2011; Space commies are th' biggest threat t' red-blooded American Freedom we got in th' future. So me and my boys got to talking over a few hot dogs the other day and this is what we came up with...

Nyast posted:

Allright, serious question, no trolling please (!).

If keeping stolen ships is no longer part of the game, can somebody explain to me what the point of neutralizing, EVA-ing, infiltrating and capturing a ship is ? Wasn't that the whole reason they added FPS in the first place ?

If there's no point in capturing a ship, who's seriously going to do all these things that are risky for their avatar instead of just blowing up the target ?

Doesn't it, like.. make the whole FPS side of the game a pointless cosmetic ? Or are there other important gameplay elements that I'm missing that require the FPS part ?

Real pirates do it for the inevitable consequences.

# ? Jan 29, 2018 23:02

MilesK: Nov 5, 2015

There will definitely be water style planets, I don't think there will be underwater worlds or cities in V1, but it's a super cool idea which wouldn't be that difficult to implement to a certain level, just because the engine doesn't discriminate between water/air/space where ships are concerned, and already has an underwater set of options built into it. This would definitely be something cool we could implement down the track along with something that makes it different, rather than just looks.

# ? Jan 29, 2018 23:05

Colostomy Bag: Jan 11, 2016; C-Bangin' it

G0RF posted:

Cheers to Luke Pressly for being straight about the missions presently ingame.

Not all fun, many are bugged, but while Lando was praising the game to high heaven yesterday, Luke stays on the ground and just talks present (frustrating) state and future targets. And when the follow-up question goes out of his domain, he doesn�t make crap up, he tells Lando to talk to a Systems guy.

This actually is good for Star Citizen. Why is it so rare?

I wonder how lando's dad is doing? God that was painful. If my parents got suckered into this farce I'd be livid.

# ? Jan 29, 2018 23:07

Beet Wagon: Oct 19, 2015

XK posted:

If CIG sells a submarine, I might have to tap out.

I mean, is that even in question at this point?

# ? Jan 29, 2018 23:08

The Titanic: Sep 15, 2016; Unsinkable

Xaerael posted:

IDGAF if Beet probes me for "Anime", I'm super proud of this paint job that took forever, and I'm showing it everyone before I stuff it on a shelf to get dusty. Also, it's a good example of a better use of time over "playing" Star Citizen.

That�s pretty impressive! You�re a good painter person!

# ? Jan 29, 2018 23:10

peter gabriel: Nov 8, 2011; Hello Commandos

I'd like to be
With CIG
In an octopusses garden in the shade

We would shout, and swim about
And giggle at Chris's hand as it waves
Oh what joy for every girl and boy
CIG are loving idiots

# ? Jan 29, 2018 23:12

Duckaerobics: Jul 22, 2007; Lipstick Apathy

Nyast posted:

Allright, serious question, no trolling please (!).

If keeping stolen ships is no longer part of the game, can somebody explain to me what the point of neutralizing, EVA-ing, infiltrating and capturing a ship is ? Wasn't that the whole reason they added FPS in the first place ?

If there's no point in capturing a ship, who's seriously going to do all these things that are risky for their avatar instead of just blowing up the target ?

Doesn't it, like.. make the whole FPS side of the game a pointless cosmetic ? Or are there other important gameplay elements that I'm missing that require the FPS part ?

I think this is the start of them rolling back a lot of promises. Supposedly Star Citizen has very advanced AI. When you log out of the game you have to go to a safe place and save your ship/find a wankpod. If you don't your character becomes AI and travels to the nearest safe space, but could get killed on the way. Remember Star Citizen is going to have very long travel times. It may take that AI hours to get you to a safe place and who knows what could happen. I have read this fantasy several times. It is obvious that 3.0 is Star Citizen. They are going to try to add to it as much as they can, but congratulations citizens this is your game.

# ? Jan 29, 2018 23:12

G0RF: Mar 19, 2015; Some galactic defender you are, Space Cadet.

Duckaerobics posted:

I think this is the start of them rolling back a lot of promises. Supposedly Star Citizen has very advanced AI. When you log out of the game you have to go to a safe place and save your ship/find a wankpod. If you don't your character becomes AI and travels to the nearest safe space, but could get killed on the way. Remember Star Citizen is going to have very long travel times. It may take that AI hours to get you to a safe place and who knows what could happen. I have read this fantasy several times. It is obvious that 3.0 is Star Citizen. They are going to try to add to it as much as they can, but congratulations citizens this is your game.

It�s still early days, man. They had to build a studio first and all that stuff.

# ? Jan 29, 2018 23:14

The Titanic: Sep 15, 2016; Unsinkable

Colostomy Bag posted:

Very nice work to be honest.

But it just so happens today someone painted a Star Citizen figure that CIG sells. Don't be jelly.

https://imgur.com/a/UqrvD

Not bad too but less good. I do give points that it looks like he rubbing off two other commandos.

# ? Jan 29, 2018 23:15

Dooguk: Oct 11, 2016; Pillbug

They have a hard time making things work in space, which is made of nothing.
How will they do it with water, which is made of stuff?

Disclaimer: I am not a scientist.

# ? Jan 29, 2018 23:17

The Titanic: Sep 15, 2016; Unsinkable

XK posted:

I just realized that the rollback of that mechanic was revealed during an answer to a question asking about loving cargo.

For gently caress's sake.

https://i.imgur.com/jOQXek8.mp4

CIG make word conflagrations like Michael Jackson laid down sick dance moves.

# ? Jan 29, 2018 23:17

Duckaerobics: Jul 22, 2007; Lipstick Apathy

Dooguk posted:

They have a hard time making things work in space, which is made of nothing.
How will they do it with water, which is made of stuff?

Disclaimer: I am not a scientist.

Counterpoint the default crytek levels all have water. The whole game is already underwater, it's just invisible.

# ? Jan 29, 2018 23:18

Foo Diddley: Oct 29, 2011; cat

Dooguk posted:

They have a hard time making things work in space, which is made of nothing.
How will they do it with water, which is made of stuff?

Disclaimer: I am not a scientist.

Same way they did it with atmosphere: there is no physical difference, just some graphical effects tacked on. In atmosphere you get contrails; underwater you'll get bubbles

# ? Jan 29, 2018 23:20

The Titanic: Sep 15, 2016; Unsinkable

SPERMCUBE.ORG posted:

I can't wait for CIG to try to lock all their employees out of the offices only to have them clip through the doors, the walls, whatever.

That, or they all mill about for a while before returning to college and high school to finish the rest of their day.

# ? Jan 29, 2018 23:21

Dooguk: Oct 11, 2016; Pillbug

Duckaerobics posted:

Counterpoint the default crytek levels all have water. The whole game is already underwater, it's just invisible.

So flying submarines then?
Stupid game.

# ? Jan 29, 2018 23:22

Beet Wagon: Oct 19, 2015

Dooguk posted:

They have a hard time making things work in space, which is made of nothing.
How will they do it with water, which is made of stuff?

Disclaimer: I am not a scientist.

Well, really, about half of their space actually is water, as far as the engine is concerned.

e: :argh:

drat you duckaerobics!

# ? Jan 29, 2018 23:24

XK: Jul 9, 2001; Star Citizen is everywhere. It is all around us. Even now, in this very room. You can see it's fidelity when you look out your window or when you watch youtube

G0RF posted:

YOUTUBE: Calling All Devs - Episode 3

Let the parsing begin...

I'm trying to watch this. It's rough.

Now they're talking about medical game play. Over time you can get so much damage you'll have long term effects and have to visit a medical facility. Medical facilities will have diagnostic machines. It will take resources, cost, and time to be diagnosed. You will experience the actual process of going through an MRI. If you get multiple leg injuries, you may end up with a fracture. Your friends might have to carry you to medical facilities for treatment. They're planning long term diseases and health problems, which may affect your vision, how you walk, whether you can use a gun with two hands, or how your character generally behaves.

Let me play the game where I'm feeble and sick.

# ? Jan 29, 2018 23:25

biglads: Feb 21, 2007; I could've gone to Blatherwycke

I heard that CIG intend to Mocap every neutrino in the 'erse. Stick that in your FUnDament and smoke it!

# ? Jan 29, 2018 23:26

Tippis: Mar 21, 2008; It's yet another day in the wasteland.

I'll self-archer my post from FDev related to this:

SomethingJones posted:

Jared Huckaby said that all of this info was out at the end of November. LET'S HAVE A LOOK SHALL WE. Hmm, I wonder is there anything hidden at the end of this video entitled "Cargo & Shopping"?

Subscriber's Town Hall - Cargo & Shopping
Nov 21 2017
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iS27ZLZDhO8

@49:30

Jared Huckaby:
This question has come up a couple times, 'Is there such a thing as legal ownership of cargo in 3.0?'

Star Citizen Dev:
Ok, ok... so... every now and then I read stuff on this and... it's partly my fault but... HAHA! Well, ok... so I did on AtV haha...

But... so yeah... there's... there's... technically like LEGAL and PHYSICAL ownership and this has to do with the way that the GAME, ah... TRACKS and... and... and... works with providing PERSISTENT DATA, so... and also... so... SLIGHTLY affecting criminality, so... if you LEGALLY own it that means you BOUGHT it or the game gave it to you for some, like, explicit reason, so like if I BOUGHT something at a COMMODITY KIOSK, like I legally own that, or if I bought some SHIP in the game I legally own it

However, if I have, say, a NOX that's in the back of my ship, I LEGALLY own it but then WILL comes in the back, sneaks in, picks up the NOX, puts it in HIS Starfarer or whatever... well now he PHYSICALLY owns it even though I LEGALLY own it

So what that means is certain GAMEPLAY BEHAVIOURS that will be BLOCKED depending on that, so...

Say I go to the AESOP terminal and I want to spawn a ship. Do I physically own the ship? Do I own this NOX? Physically? NO. I can't spawn it. OK. But maybe HE wants to claim INSURANCE on this NOX... he CAN'T because he doesn't LEGALLY own it.

So it's just a way of understanding the, um... OWNERSHIP to in... to INFORM other gameplay systems.

What they're saying here is that the game has no concept of ownership and no persistence.

Tippis posted:

n4p0l3on posted:
Hm, what do you mean with persistence here and how should it work in the game?

In this particular case, I mean something similar to how ships in EVE (and presumably ED, to some extent) are handled, so I'll go with that description.

Ships, and indeed any usable item, in EVE exists in one of two forms: �packaged� and �assembled.� The naming uses lore as a convenient shorthand for what's going on behind the scenes. Packaged items are conceived of as being a bunch of mass-produced parts in a crate, and one crate is like any other. Assembled items are what you get when you actually take that pile of parts and turn them into your particular item, with all its special quirks and unique traits.

What's going on in the database behind that is that packaged items are handled by just associating a general item type ID with a character, a storage container, and the number of items stored. [Character Tippis] has 33 of [Packaged Raven] stored in a pile in [Jita Hangar]. All packaged items of a particular type are the same generic thing � they're completely fungible in terms of what you can do with them because they are all just the same item-ID reference. This scheme takes a minute amount of DB space and is very quick to access � great for handling mass quantities on, say, a market place. From one session to the next, you only have to keep track of that same four-part association: character + location ID + number + item type ID.

ED players will recognise this pattern as a slightly more complex version of how commodities and materials are handled.

Assembled items are a different matter. These are singletons � unique instances of a general item pattern. Whereas all [Packaged Raven]s are the same, [Assembled Raven #34856] is wholly distinct and separate from [Assembled Raven #857346]. The only thing they have in common is that they are based on the same general item, which provides some base stats, but each ship has then modified those base stats depending on current condition, current pilot, current fit, and so on. This makes an assembled item hugely complex. From one session to the next, you have to keep track of not just the owner, location, and singleton ID (not so much number, because there can be only 1), but also stuff like current shield/armour/hull hitpoints, heat distribution, world position (if out in open space), modules and cargo loaded (each slot and cargo hold being a location that other stuff can be in), cosmetics/skin applied, etc etc. And you have this nesting effect where the (singleton) ship will have module slots that have (singleton) weapons equipped that have their own stats and damage states that need to be tracked, and their own holds that contain (singleton) ammo that have their own stats and damage states.

ED ships and fittings also follow this pattern. While your base Asp is always the same, my Asp is distinct, and rather different from, Asp Explorer's Asp. I can build a new Asp for myself, but it will also be distinct and rather different from my first Asp.

At any rate, it gets bloated and complex and ugly really quickly, and consequently takes an awful lot of DB thrashing to keep track of. Since they're unique, assembled items can't be traded in bulk because� well� there's only a unique copy of each. And even though it's still just a matter of (re)associating a singleton-ID with a different character-ID, it still requires a bit checks to ensure that the right item is transferred than just increasing or decreasing the number of generic-base-items owned.

So what about SC?

Well� it has none of that. What it has, as far as anyone can tell, is a per-account spawn ticket counter. Nothing in-game seems to actually be associated with any kind of in-game entity � no in-game-character ID is connected with an in-game-item ID that would indicated that the character owns that item. The long-held problem of being able to lock your ship is because there is no �your ship� � just a ship with no connection to anyone. This is how you get the waffling about �physical vs. legal ownership� � the former is just a matter of who's currently moving an item around; the latter is a matter of who's allowed to spawn the item. Neither is an association between in-game character and in-game item � it's all on an account level.

And that's just the base level of ownership. We haven't even gotten to the tricky part of associating, not just a generic item, but a fully formed and instantiated world entity � an entire ship with all its fittings and damage states and whathaveyou � with a character.

The first one is needed to make trading work. Unless the game can persistently track what in-game items are associated with your in-game character, there simply is no way to transfer an item from you to someone else, or indeed to transfer an item from one location to the next� the two corner stones of the whole concept of trading. It can be fudged by just having �[ticket count] triggers, and now you can spawn one copy more and the other guy one copy less, but that makes it universal and still not really tied to the character. For money, this might work and make sense; for items, not so much.

The second tricky part is required to fulfil that insurance description of returning a ship �in equivalent condition� and is also required to actually make theft be a thing. Unless my in-game character can some force-associate itself with the whole collection of instantiated items that represents your in-game ship and everything on it, all that's happening is that I'm flying a ship that you feel you should be flying instead. It may feel like I've stolen it form you, but from a game mechanics perspective, nothing has happened at all.

So (to finally get to your question), for trading to happen, persistence must exist in that in-game items must be associated with specific characters and (preferably) locations to denote ownership and� well� location. Until it does, no-one is hurt by item duping because no economy can exist without trading and ownership, and without economy, nothing has any value. For theft to happen, that persistence must also be extended to the singletons of each and every instantiated item that exists in the world that the players can interact with. It all comes back to the simple fact that SC, for all intents and purposes, has no real persistence. All it has are counters for how many of a particular item a given account may spawn until they have to fork over more cash to CIG.

# ? Jan 29, 2018 23:26

The Titanic: Sep 15, 2016; Unsinkable

Dementropy posted:

Reclaimer.jpeg

# ? Jan 29, 2018 23:26

stinch: Nov 21, 2013

Dooguk posted:

They have a hard time making things work in space, which is made of nothing.
How will they do it with water, which is made of stuff?

Disclaimer: I am not a scientist.

CR has that under control.

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# ? Jan 29, 2018 23:29

Dooguk: Oct 11, 2016; Pillbug

XK posted:

Let me play the game where I'm feeble and sick.

When you are in Space Hospital with your leg in plaster, I will bring you a bag of walnuts.

# ? Jan 29, 2018 23:30

XK: Jul 9, 2001; Star Citizen is everywhere. It is all around us. Even now, in this very room. You can see it's fidelity when you look out your window or when you watch youtube

Hurry with the check-up, doc. I don't have all day. I have to get home fast to login to Port Olisar for my colonoscopy appointment.

# ? Jan 29, 2018 23:31

Colostomy Bag: Jan 11, 2016; C-Bangin' it

I'll sign your space leg cast: "Get a refund"

# ? Jan 29, 2018 23:31

Mirificus: Oct 29, 2004; Kings need not raise their voices to be heard

# ? Jan 29, 2018 23:32

Adbot: ADBOT LOVES YOU

# ? May 22, 2024 02:19

The Titanic: Sep 15, 2016; Unsinkable

Nyast posted:

Allright, serious question, no trolling please (!).

If keeping stolen ships is no longer part of the game, can somebody explain to me what the point of neutralizing, EVA-ing, infiltrating and capturing a ship is ? Wasn't that the whole reason they added FPS in the first place ?

If there's no point in capturing a ship, who's seriously going to do all these things that are risky for their avatar instead of just blowing up the target ?

Doesn't it, like.. make the whole FPS side of the game a pointless cosmetic ? Or are there other important gameplay elements that I'm missing that require the FPS part ?

You can almost feel the dreams coming apart at the seams.

I guess you can do it to manually carry 600 boxes from one ship to the other ship so you can steal her cargo.

# ? Jan 29, 2018 23:33

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