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Dead Reckoning posted:Also, what do you feel is appropriate to say to someone after you shoot them, if an apology will be construed as an admission of wrongdoing? Best possible statement by a dirtbag cop? "I forfeit my right to a final meal, I do not want to be a greater burden on the people of the Socialist American Caliphte than I already am."
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Jan 29, 2018 23:51
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Trabisnikof posted:That's because that's the standard they're told is the law. Sure if we could get jury nullification going that's one thing, but you'll get kicked from a jury if they think you might nullify. You can make a decent argument that the real issue is that cops are getting the actual standard of "reasonable doubt" that everyone else should be getting, but making that argument entails casting so much doubt on the judicial system as a whole that it's impracticable. We'd have to admit that the judicial system is really bad at things and that there is far more doubt in even the simplest convictions than most people are willing to accept. I think that argument fails though because there are plenty of cases where cops are not convicted even when there is absolutely no doubt at all (see: the murder of Walter Scott, shot in the back while running away, on video). It's not about doubt, it's about racism and bias towards authority figures. A certain percentage of the American public believes cops should be murderers and is will vote to that effect when on juries.
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Jan 29, 2018 23:54
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So I see that there isn't actually anything a police officer might reasonably say after a potentially justified use of deadly force that y'all wouldn't consider "infuriating." Trabisnikof posted:That's because that's the standard they're told is the law. Sure if we could get jury nullification going that's one thing, but you'll get kicked from a jury if they think you might nullify.
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Jan 29, 2018 23:54
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Dead Reckoning posted:This is not true. Police are allowed to use deadly force based on an objectively reasonable perception of a threat of death, or serious bodily injury. Scared has nothing to do with it, and the fear must be rational. The fact that you keep spreading false information like this makes having these discussions much harder. Literally anyone can watch the execution of Daniel Shaver by a non-scared cop who plays a deadly game of "Simon Says" with him until he fucks up and dies and know that this isn't true.
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Jan 29, 2018 23:55
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Dead Reckoning posted:So I see that there isn't actually anything a police officer might reasonably say after a potentially justified use of deadly force that y'all wouldn't consider "infuriating." The only thing a cop should be saying after murdering somebody (i.e. "potentially justified use of deadly force", in the Nazi vocabulary) is a Hail Mary in the execution chamber. This is a categorical statement, there is no possible compromise.
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Jan 29, 2018 23:55
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Instant Sunrise posted:yeah those police were totally justified in beating up a diabetic, slamming him on the hood of his car, and denying him orange juice and any necessary medical intervention. Remember that time they shot the black guy trying to protect an autistic man, when the black guy was on his back with his hands up begging for their lives? Pepperidge Farm remembers.
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Jan 29, 2018 23:56
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quote:Scared has nothing to do with it, and the fear must be rational. 
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Jan 29, 2018 23:56
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Hieronymous Alloy posted:A certain percentage of the American public believes cops should be murderers and is will vote to that effect when on juries. "I was scared" is not a statement of rational belief, "I feared that the other person was about to kill me based on X, Y, and Z" is. Dead Reckoning fucked around with this message at 10:05 on Jan 30, 2018 |
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Jan 29, 2018 23:56
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Dead Reckoning posted:This is not true. Police are allowed to use deadly force based on an objectively reasonable perception of a threat of death, or serious bodily injury. Scared has nothing to do with it, and the fear must be rational. Oh well that's all right then, now I feel much bet— *is drowned out by the sound of years of you insisting how it's oh-so-rational to pull up and immediately open fire on a child sitting in a park, or fire blindly into the dark at a bump in the night, or shoot people lying on the ground with their hands in the air, or fire into a crowd of people, or into the back of a fleeing man, or at a man shopping for a gun in a store that sells guns in an open carry state, or give nickel rides which are necessary to protect blue lives because [ERROR:file missing], and every other absurd egregious trigger-happy circumstance*
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Jan 29, 2018 23:57
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Dead Reckoning posted:Yeah, this is actually a really huge problem, but I can't see a way of fixing it without abolishing the jury system, either in law or in practice. Well, that's fortunate because the common law system is a backwards travesty.
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Jan 29, 2018 23:57
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Functionally, we live in a society where the cops can kill you or your pets for any reason at any time and there's nothing you can do about it. The DA will find 12 bootlickers to let them off and that's that...if there's even a trial.
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Jan 29, 2018 23:58
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lol see all DR can do is get indignant I said the cops were scared rather than saying the cops "claimed to have a rational fear for their life for a split second" its all about  when describing how we let killer cops keep killing
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Jan 29, 2018 23:58
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Remember that time they murdered a legal gun owner sitting in front of his child, and his girlfriend live-streamed the aftermath, and the NRA didn’t say a drat thing. Pepperidge Farm remembers. Remember when they murdered an elementary school kid because he had a toy gun? No warnings, no attempt to deescalate. Pepperidge Farm remembers.
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Jan 29, 2018 23:59
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Dead Reckoning posted:So I see that there isn't actually anything a police officer might reasonably say after a potentially justified use of deadly force that y'all wouldn't consider "infuriating." "Hello 911 I need an ambulance" springs to mind
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Jan 30, 2018 00:00
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Remember that time that SWAT taped themselves executing a man in a hallway who was complying and begging? gently caress off DR.
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Jan 30, 2018 00:01
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Lightning Knight posted:Remember that time they murdered a legal gun owner sitting in front of his child, and his girlfriend live-streamed the aftermath, and the NRA didn’t say a drat thing. Remember that time they started shooting at a random pickup truck 102 times because they thought it might have been Chris Dorner? Remember when it happened twice? Pepperidge Farm remembers.
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Jan 30, 2018 00:02
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Dead Reckoning posted:Yeah, this is actually a really huge problem, but I can't see a way of fixing it without abolishing the jury system, either in law or in practice. One first step would be to follow South Carolina's model and set up an independent statewide law enforcement oversight body that investigates and prosecutes officer misconduct allegations at the local level. I mean, at least Walter Scott was put on trial for murder; most other cop murders don't get that far. Past that the solutions lie outside the legal system and in the reform of popular culture.
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Jan 30, 2018 00:02
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Dead Reckoning believes guns have more rights than african american children. "Debating" him is useless.
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Jan 30, 2018 00:02
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Hieronymous Alloy posted:"Hello 911 I need an ambulance" springs to mind Whoa later someone might argue that this was an admission of guilt and make it a little less believable when the prosecutor acts as the cop's defense counsel and scores a hung jury, is human life really worth that I don't think so. Even worse, to do that the cop would have to feel sad that someone was shot and want to help, do you want sad cops of course you don't or MS-13 will win
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Jan 30, 2018 00:02
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Hieronymous Alloy posted:"Hello 911 I need an ambulance" springs to mind Yeah the often under discussed part of this is how often cops leave people to bleed out after the shoot them.
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Jan 30, 2018 00:02
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VitalSigns posted:Oh well that's all right then, now I feel much bet— Hieronymous Alloy posted:"Hello 911 I need an ambulance" springs to mind
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Jan 30, 2018 00:03
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In my hometown some dude recently had a psychotic break, went to his kid's elementary school, punched some administrator in the face and took an old teacher hostage. The police bust in 7 hours later and killed him. He didn't have a weapon.
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Jan 30, 2018 00:03
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Dead Reckoning posting is making me nervous, it would only be a reasonable precaution to have him permaed, such life or death decisions have to be made in a split second.
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Jan 30, 2018 00:04
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Dead Reckoning posted:[citation needed] Well helldumping isn't allowed, so explain in your own words why Tamir Rice, Daniel Shaver, etc deserved to die and/or why Charles Kinsey deserved to bleed out without medical aid
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Jan 30, 2018 00:05
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Dead Reckoning posted:[citation needed] Which specific murder on are you talking about? If it's that goddam simon-says shooting yeaaah I'm not interested in a defense of that. I was mostly thinking of Walter Scott where yeah that didn't happen.
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Jan 30, 2018 00:05
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Trabisnikof posted:lol see all DR can do is get indignant I said the cops were scared rather than saying the cops "claimed to have a rational fear for their life for a split second" Trabisnikof posted:They don't need the fear to be rational.
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Jan 30, 2018 00:06
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VitalSigns posted:Well helldumping isn't allowed, so explain in your own words why Tamir Rice, Daniel Shaver, etc deserved to die and/or why Charles Kinsey deserved to bleed out without medical aid Tamir Rice was definitely the most dangerous and hardened criminal in America, they just had no choice.
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Jan 30, 2018 00:07
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It is de facto true because people like you defend every shooting no matter how irrational and unreasonable the fear
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Jan 30, 2018 00:08
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VitalSigns posted:Well helldumping isn't allowed, so explain in your own words why Tamir Rice, Daniel Shaver, etc deserved to die and/or why Charles Kinsey deserved to bleed out without medical aid It isn't helldumping to talk about DR's fetish of guns and cops and death of minorities and wanting to be the cop who fires the gun to kill minorities. (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Jan 30, 2018 00:08
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Hieronymous Alloy posted:Which specific murder on are you talking about? If it's that goddam simon-says shooting yeaaah I'm not interested in a defense of that.
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Jan 30, 2018 00:09
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https://twitter.com/deray/status/957682911016300545 Was this posted yet he asks, desperate for a distraction from 1000 pages of cop chat
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Jan 30, 2018 00:10
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VitalSigns posted:Charles Kinsey The cop that was in charge that day, got paid $130,000 and didn't have to work for over a year. So he's suing the city for $5M for discrimination because they tried to fire him: quote:It’s a standoff that has cost North Miami taxpayers close to $175,000, left the city with one less senior police officer, and remains a sticking point for a city trying to move past a controversial police shooting. A reminder for those who can't keep the people shot by cops straight: quote:It was a late afternoon on July 18 of last year when a severely autistic man with an IQ of 40 named Arnaldo Rios walked out of a North Miami facility that treats the mentally disabled, named MACtown. He wandered a few blocks, then sat down in the middle of the road. (also includes a reminder why you never call the cops) Also the shooter still hasn't had a trial afaik. Trabisnikof fucked around with this message at 00:14 on Jan 30, 2018 |
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Jan 30, 2018 00:12
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Azhais posted:https://twitter.com/deray/status/957682911016300545  quite a slip up there fatty
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Jan 30, 2018 00:12
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Wow that's shameless, but I'm sure he had to sue the city to pay him for his manslaughter attempt on Kinsey or it would be an admission of wrongdoing, really there's nothing a cop can do that will please D&D
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Jan 30, 2018 00:17
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VitalSigns posted:Well helldumping isn't allowed, so explain in your own words why Tamir Rice, Daniel Shaver, etc deserved to die Trabisnikof posted:The cop that was in charge that day, got paid $130,000 and didn't have to work for over a year. So he's suing the city for $5M for discrimination because they tried to fire him:
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Jan 30, 2018 00:39
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Feast upon my stool DR.
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Jan 30, 2018 01:44
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I wonder what excuses we’ll hear for the cops arresting that 7 year old for punching his teacher and pulling her hair. Will it be “beep boop cops are law robots and had to arrest a 7 yr old, age is no excuse” Or will we get the classic “this 7 yr old is a threat to society who must be handcuffed and perp walked” Or maybe a boring “don’t question authority, know your place” At least they didn’t shoot the kid this time.
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Jan 30, 2018 03:06
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Oh hey looks like the dems were retroactively made morons, yet again in a completely predictable way, over the sanctions agreement on Iran/Russia! Just keep trying to kick that football, Schumer, just keep doing it.
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Jan 30, 2018 04:51
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Dead Reckoning posted:Deserve has nothing to do with it. The police aren't permitted to kill someone because they "deserve" it, and whether on not someone "deserves" to live has no bearing on whether or not their death was a criminal act. (Except maybe in Texas.) Point being that you (and the US justice system generally) routinely defend unreasonable use of force, like a cop driving his car straight toward a little kid as if he's about to run him down, then gunning him down when he jumps in fear. And then lying on the report because even the cop knew he had no reason to execute a little boy and had to make one up. Because if you startle someone by acting like a lunatic it's now a """""reasonable""""" cause to fear for your life, in other words the de facto standard really is "did the cop feel scared or at least say so afterwards". VitalSigns fucked around with this message at 04:59 on Jan 30, 2018 |
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Jan 30, 2018 04:53
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Lightning Knight posted:Remember that time they shot the black guy trying to protect an autistic man, when the black guy was on his back with his hands up begging for their lives? Also remember that when he got shot the black guy asked "Why?" to which the cop said "I don't know." not even it was an accident or something, but that he purposefully fired it for no reason.
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Jan 30, 2018 05:02
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