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H110Hawk posted:Yeah I would also consider couples counseling. You're about to be a team. This smells like there is at least a little bit of goony mine vs yours instead of "how can we budget together so both of us are happy with reasonable compromises." On one hand, you are right, on the other hand, divorce court will potentially reward her with half of the stuff she contributed net nothing plus alimony if she gets bored or changes her mind. IMO you are a fool if you are the higher income and/or more financially responsible partner and you don't at least ask an attorney "what am I really getting into?"
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Jan 30, 2018 13:43
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That's why you guys gotta get hitched when you're both young, poor, and saddled with soul crushing debt. 
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Jan 30, 2018 14:33
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GoGoGadgetChris posted:she views her paycheck as "this is how many dollars I can spend this month" You're in a world of poo poo if this mindset doesn't change, pre-nup or not.
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Jan 30, 2018 14:45
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GoGoGadgetChris posted:she views her paycheck as "this is how many dollars I can spend this month" My dad has been married to 3 of those, no prenups. As a 6 figure earner for decades he just filed for bankruptcy at age 59. I don't know if prenups protect you from your spouse's awful credit/debt but jesus christ that mindset is not something anyone with a financial head on their shoulders should marry RIP edit: I suppose I'm lying on the internet, his first wife (my mom) did not have the mindset but she did take half. And there was a 3rd financial idiot but he didn't marry her, just serious enough to add her as an authorized user on all his cards. I love my dad, but man. Damn Bananas fucked around with this message at 15:44 on Jan 30, 2018 |
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Jan 30, 2018 15:42
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You are correct and wise to plan your inevitable divorce before marrying this person, GGGC
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Jan 30, 2018 16:02
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Eric the Mauve posted:You are correct and wise to plan your inevitable divorce before marrying this person, GGGC this but with not a hint of irony.
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Jan 30, 2018 16:51
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GoGoGadgetChris posted:Yeah, I'll consult an attorney, I was just curious if anyone else had experience with it since I doubt we're the first couple in history to have very different views on finances (she views her paycheck as "this is how many dollars I can spend this month" and her retirement plan is "I like work, why would I want to retire?". the trick will be framing it in such a way it doesn't cause a huge fight; stick to your guns and good luck with that Bhodi fucked around with this message at 17:36 on Jan 30, 2018 |
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Jan 30, 2018 17:33
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GoGoGadgetChris posted:I brought up the Prenup Conversation today and the fiancee has absolutely lost her poo poo that I'm "already thinking it's not gonna work out", and thinks I'm crazy for considering this since "we're not celebrities" I'll chime in with some (second hand) experience. Names changed and numbers are on an order of magnitude. I have two friends, Annie and Billy. Like your situation there is a huge net worth disparity prior to marriage situation. Unlike your situation, they are both planners who generally agree where to spend money and where to save. I think the general agreement on finances is crucial. Annie's family has about 5 million in total assets, much of it tied up in a house. She herself has maybe 100k and is (newly) making 150k per year. Billy's family is worth several hundred million. I'm not sure what's in his personal trust fund, but 50-100 million would not be unreasonable. He himself (newly) makes 80k per year. Billy brings up a prenup. Annie is incredibly upset. How can you already plan for the end, we're not even married, if you didn't have this familial wealth and it were just our income disparities I wouldn't make you sign one, etc etc. He continues to insist and they argue about it for about a month (I get all of this from Annie's side). After Annie had some time to cool off and not be totally driven by emotion, Billy has his mom and his lawyer talk to her about it. Miraculously this does not result in a bigger fight. Annie now is a little grumpy but concedes that it's so clearly the financially correct thing to do that she has to accept it. Even though emotionally she feels like Billy should trust her, she gets that it's reasonable to want a layer of protection. Billy and Annie have known each other for 10 years prior to engagement and know each other very well. Billy essentially decided to make no emotional appeal regarding the prenup but many strong financial appeals, which as it turns out is a good way to convince Annie. The key is that they're on the same financial thinking page. They have different emotional reactions to a prenup but kinda still understand the value of one. They've been married 5 years now. I suspect she would have been happier with "I love you dear, we don't need a prenup", but she's okay with it and it doesn't affect the marriage at all. I'm close friends with her and she's never mentioned it since they agreed to get one.
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Jan 30, 2018 17:58
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If you're way wealthier than the person you're considering marrying a prenup is automatic, you don't even consider for a second marrying without one. (Assuming you live in a jurisdiction where prenups are enforceable; this is not universally true.) Even if you're 100.00% absolutely convinced you and the other person are desperately in love, the marriage contract is until death and the wealthier party stands to lose half or more of their assets if either party later chooses to dissolve it--and over years and decades, people change.
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Jan 30, 2018 18:14
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Yeah, you don't need to sell me on a prenup, I'm just curious to hear how people have had the actual conversation. The internet is full of "obvi you need one!" but very few people who have actually done it. Agreed that couples counseling is a godsend. Our premarital counseling is actually how we learned we're not on the same page financially! We've been together for 7 years and I had no idea that she hasn't saved a penny for retirement and she had no idea that I was "hiding money from her" (putting it in a 401k...) I don't want to play armchair psychologist or bad mouth my partner on the internet, but I think she's got some negative associations with savings and money (grew up half poor... divorced parents with a huge wealth disparity) and seems to think that if you have savings you're just gonna lose it or have it taken away by somebody. I did almost have a heart attack when she spoke against emergency funds, saying that "well you're just waiting for something to happen where you need to use that money and it's gone!!"  Basically we've got foundational differences in financial mindset and I don't think they'll change. I know what I'm getting into on our combined life, and I'll definitely be taking care of her in a big way, but it seems fair to go into it with, as it has been said, some Goony Mine vs Yours on existing assets.
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Jan 30, 2018 18:23
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That, uh, all sounds REALLY bad dude. If her mindset won't change and she now knows you're "hiding" money from her and she can spend more than she makes (because obviously you can afford it!) it's a recipe for disaster.
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Jan 30, 2018 18:43
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Good lord I wish I could watch this drama unfold at faster pace because this is one season I'd absolutely binge-watch.
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Jan 30, 2018 18:51
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Uh I'm pretty sure even if y'all get a prenup she will go after you for all you're worth if you separate and that piece of paper will not protect you. My impression is they're a little hard to enforce and "I had no net worth and he threatened to leave me with no money if I didn't sign!" is an argument that might be enough.
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Jan 30, 2018 19:01
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A significant disparity in net worth is a reason for a prenup to get thrown out? That sounds... Wrong?
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Jan 30, 2018 19:03
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How is it possible to be with someone for 7 years and not know basic things about them?
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Jan 30, 2018 19:04
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Amara posted:Uh I'm pretty sure even if y'all get a prenup she will go after you for all you're worth if you separate and that piece of paper will not protect you. My impression is they're a little hard to enforce and "I had no net worth and he threatened to leave me with no money if I didn't sign!" is an argument that might be enough. Are you an attorney and if so in what state(s) have you passed the bar and do you practice marriage or contract law?
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Jan 30, 2018 19:05
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GoGoGadgetChris posted:A significant disparity in net worth is a reason for a prenup to get thrown out? It does seem that way, right? But "pressured into it" seems like one of the reasons they get thrown out. It's not exactly that the net worth differential is what got it thrown out. It's that you were supporting her, that you threatened to stop supporting her, and that this is why she signed (note that this doesn't have to seem true now, it just has to be an argument she can build at time of separation). I'm not a lawyer. I've just been warned that (as a high earning individual) prenups can be overturned somewhat regularly and should not be relied upon.
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Jan 30, 2018 19:11
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Droo posted:How is it possible to be with someone for 7 years and not know basic things about them? Hey now, that's not really fair. We didn't talk finances because we were just dating. Now that we're engaged we are! The actual drafting of the agreement will be interesting because we've never actually laid all our Financials out on the table for each other and I'm curious what exactly "Some credit card debt from when I was younger" entails.
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Jan 30, 2018 19:11
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What's the actionable item from "prenups should not be relied on"? Don't marry below your caste?
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Jan 30, 2018 19:12
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GoGoGadgetChris posted:What's the actionable item from "prenups should not be relied on"? Don't marry below your caste? Other actionables: get a good lawyer with experience in this exact topic in your state and any state you might move to.
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Jan 30, 2018 19:19
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GoGoGadgetChris posted:What's the actionable item from "prenups should not be relied on"? Don't marry below your caste? Or just make sure they're on the same page. If she thinks saving money isn't good and you shouldn't want to work until you're 70, I mean, that may be the kind of thing that's going to lead to divorce eventually. (key word MAY, just saying finances are the number one cause as you say) My girlfriend makes a lot less money than me but keeps a budget and has sizable cash savings and some stocks, and she never pays interest, so I am comfortable going into that without one.
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Jan 30, 2018 19:26
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EAT FASTER!!!!!! posted:Are you an attorney and if so in what state(s) have you passed the bar and do you practice marriage or contract law? Aw, don't be like this. Clearly I'm not a lawyer and I'm not offering legal advice. I just think (like many in this thread) that GGGC is in a bad situation but also think the prenup won't actually solve as much as he hopes. Of course, please talk to an actual lawyer in your state, which I think you're planning on anyway.
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Jan 30, 2018 19:28
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GoGoGadgetChris posted:What's the actionable item from "prenups should not be relied on"? Don't marry below your caste? Live in a community property state, don't comingle pre-marital assets with your marriage. 
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Jan 30, 2018 19:44
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H110Hawk posted:Live in a community property state Don't you mean equitable distribution?
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Jan 30, 2018 20:51
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BWM thread is going to get some pro content at some point in the future...
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Jan 30, 2018 21:24
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GoGoGadgetChris posted:What's the actionable item from "prenups should not be relied on"? Don't marry below your caste?
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Jan 30, 2018 21:33
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GoGoGadgetChris posted:Hey now, that's not really fair. We didn't talk finances because we were just dating. Now that we're engaged we are! I really am hoping for a post-conversation update on this. I can't imagine being engaged and not having any idea about this stuff. Maybe that's just me, though.
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Jan 30, 2018 22:24
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Yeah maybe I'm inexperienced but it's hard to believe you never discussed finances until engagement - it's not something I do with a new partner unless it comes up for some reason but after a year I can't imagine having no clue what their financial situation is.
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Jan 30, 2018 23:23
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Jeffrey of YOSPOS posted:Yeah maybe I'm inexperienced but it's hard to believe you never discussed finances until engagement - it's not something I do with a new partner unless it comes up for some reason but after a year I can't imagine having no clue what their financial situation is. This. Do you not share at least part of your economy? Like rent, food, gas?? I don't understand... how... 
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Jan 31, 2018 01:47
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We don't live together yet, so no, we haven't needed to know each other's income and expenses. Got our own apartments, cars, groceries, gas, etc.
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Jan 31, 2018 02:41
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GoGoGadgetChris posted:We don't live together yet, so no, we haven't needed to know each other's income and expenses. Got our own apartments, cars, groceries, gas, etc. This gets better and better. Are you strongly religious? ("pre-marital counseling") living together is a whole different ball game. I'm still surprised you never mentioned a 401k or whatever to your girlfriend.
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Jan 31, 2018 03:44
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One person has a million dollars, the other is broke/most likely has CC debt. Not sure how you goons don't think neither side would want to mention it.
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Jan 31, 2018 04:15
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I think posters of a finance forum probably have a skewed perception of whether Normal People talk about finances... I'm not sure how I would slip "the ol 401k is killing it now that brexit concerns have subsided" into conversation. I know from observation that she's able to pay her rent, keep gas in the tank, food in the fridge, etc., so I never felt like I needed to ask about her budget. H110Hawk posted:This gets better and better. Are you strongly religious? ("pre-marital counseling") living together is a whole different ball game. I'm still surprised you never mentioned a 401k or whatever to your girlfriend. Not religious at all. We didn't want to live together because we both have two cats and didn't want to be the Weird Cat House.
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Jan 31, 2018 04:29
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It's totally off topic but I currently can't imagine a job that pays so well and still gives you enough free time and energy to maintain several cats and a girlfriend. I'm just hollowed out every evening by my ridiculous 80k a year job and can barely drum up the energy to feed myself. What are these jobs?!
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Jan 31, 2018 04:34
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GoGoGadgetChris posted:Not religious at all. We didn't want to live together because we both have two cats and didn't want to be the Weird Cat House. Lol this keeps getting better. So what's your plan for after you get married? Doesn't seem like the feline calculus really changes
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Jan 31, 2018 05:04
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BEHOLD: MY CAPE posted:Lol this keeps getting better. So what's your plan for after you get married? Doesn't seem like the feline calculus really changes They can't get married until two cats die. It's like a fairy tale really
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Jan 31, 2018 05:30
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GoGoGadgetChris posted:Not religious at all. We didn't want to live together because we both have two cats and didn't want to be the Weird Cat House. tuyop posted:It's totally off topic but I currently can't imagine a job that pays so well and still gives you enough free time and energy to maintain several cats and a girlfriend. I'm just hollowed out every evening by my ridiculous 80k a year job and can barely drum up the energy to feed myself. What are these jobs?!
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Jan 31, 2018 09:49
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tuyop posted:It's totally off topic but I currently can't imagine a job that pays so well and still gives you enough free time and energy to maintain several cats and a girlfriend. I'm just hollowed out every evening by my ridiculous 80k a year job and can barely drum up the energy to feed myself. What are these jobs?! The trick is not to talk to your girlfriend, saves a bunch of time
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Jan 31, 2018 09:51
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BEHOLD: MY CAPE posted:Lol this keeps getting better. So what's your plan for after you get married? Doesn't seem like the feline calculus really changes Just don't marry, and the issue of a prenup is solved. I am at least semi serious here. Try living together and see if you can stand each other for a few years first. By that time your financial interest might have rubbed off on the s.o. Potrzebie fucked around with this message at 09:55 on Jan 31, 2018 |
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Jan 31, 2018 09:52
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I am starting an s-Corp. I would like to keep track of both invoicing and receipts/expenses across several clients, both for my knowledge and to easily hand over to my tax professional. I would like as much automation towards reconciling and coding my card as much as possible so my business manager can accurately pay it. What is the recommended software to do both of these things? Is it something like Expensify and Quickbooks or something that is more all in one?
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Jan 31, 2018 10:50
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