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jivjov posted:"Abusive parents" is not a marginalized community. We absolutely should deploy the full force of the law against abusive parents. No, he's arguing that, somehow, requiring all children be vaccinated is racist because enforcement would impact minority peoples hardest (He means poor people but he's conflating the two...) which isn't a thing (I mean to say it's a very obvious point but impossible to avoid due to the reality that things just hit poor people harder, like traffic tickets). Or, at the very very least, no one is here arguing for. He doesn't understand that when we say "all children should be vaccinated" we are saying "all children with parents who want to be a part of society" instead of "ALL children, EVERYWHERE will be swept up in a hell realm nightmare". Like government agents bursting into isolated cabins in the woods or checking vaccination records at state borders or whatevs. He's Libertarian, it's ok. Duke Igthorn fucked around with this message at 23:46 on Feb 2, 2018 |
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Feb 2, 2018 23:43
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Duke Igthorn posted:No, he's arguing that, somehow, requiring all children be vaccinated is racist because enforcement would impact minority peoples hardest (He means poor people but he's conflating the two...) which isn't a thing. Or, at the very very least, no one is here arguing for. He doesn't understand that when we say "all children should be vaccinated" we are saying "all children with parents who want to be a part of society" instead of "ALL children, EVERYWHERE will be swept up in a hell realm nightmare". Like government agents bursting into isolated cabins in the woods or checking vaccination records at state borders or whatevs. It's not like I presented a study that very explicitly shows that non-white people are more likely to be skeptical of vaccinations or anything, or that people in the thread have very specifically been arguing that using direct force is good and necessary to ensure we reach a 100% compliance rate. Honestly gently caress off.
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Feb 2, 2018 23:44
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 D&D IS LEAKING I wish a mod would inoculate the thread against this tiresome derail. edit: Oh wait, this is D&D, not PYF. Still. It's like some kind of lupus effect or something. Weatherman fucked around with this message at 00:18 on Feb 3, 2018 |
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Feb 2, 2018 23:46
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what does and does not fall under the umbrella of freedom in parenting is not going to be solved in this thread in the year 2018 we as a society still can't agree if beating your kids is ok or not
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Feb 2, 2018 23:49
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boner confessor posted:what does and does not fall under the umbrella of freedom in parenting is not going to be solved in this thread Nah; society agrees it's not okay. Abusive assholes continue to do it
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Feb 2, 2018 23:52
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jivjov posted:Not only can I read, I can also advocate to take steps against child abuse, including withholding vaccines. You really think minorities, many of which have seen this government use tactics against them even for many in their own lifetime, or some that escaped oppressive regimes are suddenly going to be happy that our government uses authoritarian tactics to mandate vaccines? My guess is the majority have bigger issues as it is than "oh poo poo my kids aren't vaccinated" as opposed to "I'm in loving poverty." Yes, we need vaccines. Thankfully kids aren't dying in the street without them anymore. The answer should be more education that vaccines are safe, natural, and not imposing on your civil liberties. Not utilizing an already corrupt police state. A note w/r/t foster homes, most that run them are in over their head. My sister in law is a product of the system, and being transferred from one house to another is awful for a kid. If you seriously think there is abuse in a child's life, be absolutely certain a foster home is better than their current situation. Some parent that reads natural news and doesn't vaccinate their kid is probably ok in other areas of life, and that kid will probably be okay thanks to herd immunity.
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Feb 2, 2018 23:54
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seiferguy posted:You really think minorities, many of which have seen this government use tactics against them even for many in their own lifetime, or some that escaped oppressive regimes are suddenly going to be happy that our government uses authoritarian tactics to mandate vaccines? My guess is the majority have bigger issues as it is than "oh poo poo my kids aren't vaccinated" as opposed to "I'm in loving poverty." Being a minority is not free rein to abuse your kids. If you withhold vaccines (without a legitimate medical reason) you are abusing your kids. People who abuse their kids are exactly what our law enforcement should be out to get. jivjov fucked around with this message at 23:58 on Feb 2, 2018 |
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Feb 2, 2018 23:55
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jivjov posted:Being a minority is not free rein to abuse your kids. If you withhold vaccines (without a legitimate medical reason) you are abusing your kids. Minorities and poor people get hosed over by vaccine laws moreso than the rich. Food for thought.
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Feb 3, 2018 00:08
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seiferguy posted:Minorities and poor people get hosed over by vaccine laws moreso than the rich. Food for thought. Hmm, so how about we enforce vaccine laws on everyone then? Which is literally what I've been advocating for this whole time.
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Feb 3, 2018 00:12
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Another fun option would be to make it so that if your kid does get sick or die as a result of your refusal to vaccinate them then you get charged with whatever you'd be charged with if you wilfully infected them with whatever they caught. Also that article doesn't actually say that, it says rich fuckers don't vaccinate their kids and the law prosecutes poor people for things that aren't vaccination but are related otherwise to child neglect, it specifically is saying that vaccination is not an issue where people are facing legal consequences and that predominantly rich people are not vaccinating their kids. It argues that vaccination is child neglect but it is notable in that it is not a form of child neglect that is prosecuted because it affects rich people predominantly. Not that poor people are disproportionately affected by vaccination laws. OwlFancier fucked around with this message at 00:33 on Feb 3, 2018 |
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Feb 3, 2018 00:24
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jivjov posted:Nah; society agrees it's not okay. Abusive assholes continue to do it by beating your kids i mean spanking
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Feb 3, 2018 00:30
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jivjov posted:People who abuse their kids are exactly what our law enforcement should be out to get. As soon as the cops wrap up this war on drugs, they will get right on it
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Feb 3, 2018 00:48
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Americans: don’t use the government! It’s lovely and abuses power! Non-Americans: sorry, our governments work for the most part. Have you tried a big-boy system of government?
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Feb 3, 2018 00:58
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Avenging_Mikon posted:Americans: don’t use the government! It’s lovely and abuses power! It hurts because it’s true.
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Feb 3, 2018 00:59
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boner confessor posted:by beating your kids i mean spanking Correct. Beating your kids is not okay. Abusive parents keep doing it.
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Feb 3, 2018 01:06
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jivjov posted:Correct. Beating your kids is not okay. Abusive parents keep doing it. It also gives rise to one of the classical presentations of the crazy forwarded political email: "I / my generation was __________ and I / we survived." Also I realized today that I hadn't shared much in a long time. It's not that the crazy stopped, it's that it turned into lovely videos of still image on facebook that are harder to share here. 
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Feb 3, 2018 01:11
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Mo_Steel posted:It also gives rise to one of the classical presentations of the crazy forwarded political email: The best response to that is "if you think hitting kids is acceptable, then you clearly did not turn out okay"
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Feb 3, 2018 01:14
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My generation had high explosives dropped on them from the air and while many people died from it, they can't write about it, while I can, thus I surmise that high explosive bombing is good for you.
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Feb 3, 2018 01:14
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jivjov posted:Correct. Beating your kids is not okay. Abusive parents keep doing it. the point i'm making here is that society is largely ok with spanking despite it being child abuse
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Feb 3, 2018 01:50
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y'all need an EPORW intervention here's this racist jingoistic garbage  and here's what actually happened "Immigration agents raid 77 Northern California workplaces; no arrests reported" http://www.sfgate.com/bayarea/amp/I...impression=true ICE busted down the doors on 77 random businesses looking to intimidate brown people.
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Feb 3, 2018 02:00
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Wow over 80 new posts in the email forward thread? There must be some seriously crazy memes going around! Clicks thread SON OF A BITCH!
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Feb 3, 2018 02:15
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boner confessor posted:the point i'm making here is that society is largely ok with spanking despite it being child abuse Nah. Abusive people are okay with spanking. Rational, reasonable society is not.
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Feb 3, 2018 02:34
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jivjov posted:Nah. Abusive people are okay with spanking. Rational, reasonable society is not. Not actually true! quote:The public by a 2-1 margin approves of spanking children in principle, and half of parents say they sometimes do it to their own kids, an ABCNEWS poll found. So yeah, no, as it turns out most Americans are apparently lovely parents.
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Feb 3, 2018 02:37
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jivjov posted:Nah. Abusive people are okay with spanking. Rational, reasonable society is not. i dont think you're aware of how prevalent spanking is or how commonly accepted it is by law and educational institutions. i have some bad news for you
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Feb 3, 2018 02:44
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boner confessor posted:i dont think you're aware of how prevalent spanking is or how commonly accepted it is by law and educational institutions. i have some bad news for you And people who are okay with spanking are bad people and abusive parents. Something being widely accepted does not make it right. See: slavery
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Feb 3, 2018 02:48
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I thought the new fad was putting hot sauce on their tongue because it doesn't leave marks?
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Feb 3, 2018 02:50
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jivjov posted:And people who are okay with spanking are bad people and abusive parents. Something being widely accepted does not make it right. See: slavery this is a different conversation entirely from the point i was making, which is that by and large, american society is ok with child abuse. do with this information what you will boner confessor posted:in the year 2018 we as a society still can't agree if beating your kids is ok or not
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Feb 3, 2018 03:08
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Anti-vaxxers piss me off not because it hurts kids, but because I can't get vaccinated myself anymore because my pediatrician lost my vaccination records before I turned 18, so my general practitioner can't give me anything beyond an annual flu shot because they don't know what I have and haven't had injected into my system already. So I'm now reliant on herd immunity for the rest of my life due to medical bureaucratic stupidity which is now being undermined by dipshits who had no business breeding in the first place.
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Feb 3, 2018 03:15
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You don't, like, melt if you get vaccinated twice... They lost some of my records too so they just gave me everything they didn't have me recorded as having again.
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Feb 3, 2018 03:19
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OwlFancier posted:You don't, like, melt if you get vaccinated twice... No, I asked for that, that doctor literally said if they don't have my vaccination records, and I couldn't bring them a copy of my record (I couldn't, because by the time I found out the pediatrics office is question had gone out of business) then they're not allowed to give me anything.
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Feb 3, 2018 03:22
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You have weird doctors where you live.
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Feb 3, 2018 03:23
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Yeah that's pretty much bullshit. When I was a hospital corpsman in the Navy some poor bastards occasionally had their vaccination records misplaced and nobody even blinked at the resulting procedure. You got them all again, because you had to be sure your immunizations were up to date. The common joke was that we'd do it on purpose if you pissed us off but if I ever caught anyone actually doing that I'd have come down on them like a ton of bricks and hellfire because that's super unethical.
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Feb 3, 2018 03:35
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It's still MLK whitewashing season right? 
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Feb 3, 2018 04:12
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Kerning Chameleon posted:No, I asked for that, that doctor literally said if they don't have my vaccination records, and I couldn't bring them a copy of my record (I couldn't, because by the time I found out the pediatrics office is question had gone out of business) then they're not allowed to give me anything. I had exactly that done when I moved to Colorado. It’s no big deal to get revaccinated. Your doctor sounds like a quack.
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Feb 3, 2018 04:16
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Kerning Chameleon posted:Anti-vaxxers piss me off not because it hurts kids, but because I can't get vaccinated myself anymore because my pediatrician lost my vaccination records before I turned 18, so my general practitioner can't give me anything beyond an annual flu shot because they don't know what I have and haven't had injected into my system already. I think you just encountered a doctor’s receptionist that didn’t want to do work. I’ve had vaccinations in the USA and I didn’t have to produce a vaccination record.
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Feb 3, 2018 04:17
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We should spank our children with vaccination needles while enjoying hotdog sandwiches.
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Feb 3, 2018 04:37
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Kerning Chameleon posted:Anti-vaxxers piss me off not because it hurts kids, but because I can't get vaccinated myself anymore because my pediatrician lost my vaccination records before I turned 18, so my general practitioner can't give me anything beyond an annual flu shot because they don't know what I have and haven't had injected into my system already. Just get them all done again. Somewhere there'a a doctor that can do it.
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Feb 3, 2018 08:37
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Defenestration posted:It's still MLK whitewashing season right? Of course it is. It's black history month!
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Feb 3, 2018 08:47
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T-man posted:We should ftfy
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Feb 3, 2018 08:58
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Panfilo posted:ftfy On a treadmill.
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Feb 3, 2018 09:49
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