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That's the most racist rat I've seen in a while.
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Feb 2, 2018 08:10
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Inkspot posted:April waffles back and forth between African American and a white girl with a crazy perm in the Mirage comics. That’s a non-issue. Yeah, in the comics April appears to be black more often than not. Again, it was the kids' cartoon/movies that whitewashed her.
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Feb 2, 2018 09:39
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The angular style sort of reminds me of Samurai Jack, although not as good because the designs are all a bit busier. I like Usagi Yojimbo. It would be cool if there was an Usagi Yojimbo cartoon. I've never been into TMNT but I've always thought I'd like to be. I will ask about comics in the recommendation thread but how about the cartoons? Are any of them like Gargoyles or Batman TAS, which I think have something for all ages to enjoy, or are they more of a "you had to be there" thing?
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Feb 2, 2018 10:25
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Wheat Loaf posted:The angular style sort of reminds me of Samurai Jack, although not as good because the designs are all a bit busier. I like Usagi Yojimbo. It would be cool if there was an Usagi Yojimbo cartoon. I remember liking the 2003 series before it got really weird and over the top goofy? It's not like Batman TAS or Justice League which were ostensibly something for all ages but could still cover some subjects that most cartoons wouldn't usually touch. But it was a decent enough show about turtles, who were ninjas and beat up other ninjas.
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Feb 2, 2018 10:46
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Wheat Loaf posted:I've never been into TMNT but I've always thought I'd like to be. I will ask about comics in the recommendation thread but how about the cartoons? Are any of them like Gargoyles or Batman TAS, which I think have something for all ages to enjoy, or are they more of a "you had to be there" thing? The 87 cartoon is largely only worth watching the very first 5-episode season of, which is before they were told the turtles were no longer allowed to hit things with their weapons. It's decent enough for what it is, with strong action and lots of humor (which remained the show's strength even at its least creative), and if nothing else it'll give you solid context for what the popular perception of the TMNT was. That show ran for 10 loving years, even though no one was watching it in the last few seasons, which is really impressive for something that only existed to sell toys. The 2003 cartoon is like a sanitized, less interesting version of the Mirage comics, at least at first. While a lot of old school TMNT fans really like it, I find it to be a very dull show with no sense of humor and really predictable writing. Yeah, actual violence happens (relatively speaking, anyway) and there's character arcs and stuff, but you see it all coming a mile away. It feels like watching Ben 10 or something. I also found the voice work to be really weak. And then they go to the future and the show becomes unwatchable. Also Raphael is constantly hitting and threatening Mikey and that's abusive and not cool. The best thing that cartoon produced was Turtles Forever, where the "serious" turtles of the show meet the zany, cartoonier 87 Turtles and team up to fight their combined villains. It's very cleverly written, fun, and an obvious love letter to the entire franchise. Although it's hampered by 4kids producing it, which means none of the unionized voice actors of the original show are involved, just people doing C- to D+ impressions. This is especially irritating since James Avery as Shredder was the best, and this would've been his last chance to voice the character. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yDm30fWWfOw The 2012 cartoon is by far the best incarnation of the turtles to ever exist, even if the show has some flaws. While the character designs aren't the best (this is especially obvious when this show also crosses over with the 87 turtles), the animation is surprisingly good for a CG kids' show, and while the show is at least the equal of the 87 cartoon when it comes to zany humor, it's also not afraid to get serious or dark, and the characters get to have actual arcs and deal with long term consequences of things. The show also takes the characters in new directions instead of just safely recycling what worked before. Sure, Leo is still the leader, Raph is still the angry guy, Donatello still does machines, etc, but they're all unique versions of the characters, and many of the villains are completely different from previous incarnations, or original creations. Even Shredder is a very different character than he's been in any of the comics. The show also homages tons of things, from the weird Sky Highway storyline of the original comic (which was itself a tribute to the works of Ed Roth) to an extremely obvious and elaborate homage to the Friday the 13th films in the form of one of the villains. You can tell it's a show that's born of love, not a cynical cash grab designed to sell toys. The show does go off the rails and misstep at times. I found their versions of Bebop and Rocksteady to be pretty forgettable, and so far off from the original concept that they should've just been original characters instead. Donatello has an honest to goodness relationship with April in this show, which is charming at first but, due to the show being unwilling to move them past "first date" territory for the sake of keeping the drama going, often delves into creepy stalkerish behavior in later seasons. Also they go to space for most of a season at one point, which is uh, unnecessary. The live action Saban show was crap and shouldn't even be watched ironically. I personally think the original TMNT movie is maybe the most entertaining depiction of the characters ever and strikes a great balance between the tone of the mirage comics and the colorful creativity of the cartoon. A ton of work went into the puppets and fight choreography of that film, only for critics to poo poo on it as being too dark and violent for children and religious groups to denounce it for promoting eastern religious beliefs. But I think it's just great. The other movies are bad. The second one is fun but insultingly stupid, like to the point that it makes the 87 cartoon look mature (and really, their humor was a lot smarter than the burps and farts of that film). The third one is dull and features just some guy as the villain, instead of one of the hundreds of colorful rogues the turtles have had in comics and tv. The 2008 CG film is meant as a sequel to those films, but it's just kinda boring. It feels like the script of an episode of the 2003 tv show stretched to 90 minutes. It's not the worst thing in the world but you'll forget you watched it a day later. The Mirage comics are just great, they're fun, inventive, and have tons of creativity from all the guest writers and artists that show up. There's some lulls, and it can feel like it takes itself too seriously at times, but it honestly holds up better than a lot of indie comics from the time. The Mirage comics were directly followed, in-continuity, by the Image comics, which were very 90s in a pretty bad way. The turtles get mangled and maimed very early on, which according to the creators was to make them stand out from each other visually, but it's pretty distressing to see your favorite turtles lose eyes, limbs and become skeletonized and cyborgified. There's some interesting things going on with the comic, including Raphael becoming the leader of the foot clan, but honestly it's kind of an overly edgy mess that gets canceled abruptly and then declared non-canon to the Mirage run. The creators later released an unofficial "ending" to the run which you can still find online somewhere, if you are a completionist and want to hear Raphael and Leo talk about all the human tail they got. There was an Archie comic line that originally began as an adaptation of the 87 cartoon and quickly evolved into its own extremely weird thing. Even though I still own some physical issues of it (and an issue of the TMNT magazine the french version was published in!), it's the comic I know the least about. It was very Sonic the Hedgehog in that it added tons and tons and tons of supporting characters and had weird poo poo like a space cow that licks and eats you to teleport you through space. Shredder and Krang eventually disappeared from the comic entirely, which only led to things getting weirder. There was a strong environmentalist undertone to these comics, which eventually became overbearing and completely eclipsed everything else about it when the spinoff "Mutanimals" comic was formed.  Unbeknownst to most, according to its sales, was the Peter Laird continuation of the original Mirage comic from the early 2000s. Positing that the turtles had aged in real time since the original run, this comic sees the now 30something reptiles having to exist in a world that becomes officially first contacted by the Utrom alien race, which causes massive societal changes on earth, not the least of which is that the TMNT no longer need to live in hiding since soon all sorts of weird creatures show up as earth becomes a tourist destination for aliens. While the run has a lot of talented people working on it and has a lot of neat moments and fun side stories in the "Tales of the TMNT" side comic, it's obvious Peter Laird's fascination with the sci fi elements of the book far overshadows the "ninja" stuff, and at times it hardly feels like a ninja turtle comic at all. The main cast get separated a lot and go on weird unrelated adventures, one of which has Michelangelo get so heavily tortured in an alien prison that he joins a Triceraton raiding party to get revenge on his captors and gives a thumbs up to them using acid bombs on farmers. Maybe fittingly, that's the last ever published issue of this run. This is also the comic that retconned April as being created by a magic pencil, a fact she finds out after turning into a cockroach and loving other cockroaches while time traveling. I'm definitely giving an uncharitable view of the comic, which is probably because I was very annoyed at the time that Peter Laird had declared every contribution by a guest writer/artist who had refused to abandon the royalties for their contributions to be non-canon to this new continuity. Then there's the IDW TMNT. It's the best version of the characters across all mediums. It incorporates elements from every version you can imagine, gets every character's voice so right that you can't imagine them ever sounding different, creates new dynamics and concepts that are more intriguing than anything that came before, and has some really gut-punching emotional scenes. While I personally feel that since the original writers have left the book, it's somewhat lost its sense of direction, I still can't recommend it enough. In particular, the mini-series "Bebop and Rocksteady Destroy Everything" is the most fun I've had reading a comic since I was a wee lad.  
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Feb 2, 2018 11:46
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Lobok posted:All other design decisions aside, I do think giving Raph a pair of tonfas is a cool replacement for his sai because of the age-old problem of needing him to either fight robots only in a PG setting or needing to constantly explain, choreograph, or animate how the Sai are for blunt striking and are not tiny rapiers. Leo's still got a sword though
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Feb 2, 2018 13:40
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The new cartoon lost me completely by the end of its run. Mikey is insufferably annoying to a degree he's never been before, Donatello is made uncomfortably creepy and in later seasons this gets rewarded by having April kind-of-sort-of-but-not-really react positively to it, they force nearly every major antagonist to either be a mutant (the most blatant example being Karai or have some exaggerated super power, and they seriously have an issue with keeping track of and using all their characters effectively, with yesterday's major villains being rendered quickly irrelevant by whomever has a new toy to sell. That last one is an issue that a lot of cartoons that are merchandise driven face, but the TMNT 2012 cartoon is absurdly blatant about it. Then there's the issues it runs into when it smacks into more dramatic moments. Honeycut's death is undercut by another version of him showing up seconds later, and there's the absurdness of an entire group of the Turtles being eager to leave their old lives behind and go on space adventures because the writers wrote themselves into a corner where there'd be two versions of them running around. And then there's Splinter's death, where we were subjected to no less than THREE fake outs beforehand, to the point it all landed with a wet fart. I dunno. I don't much care for it.
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Feb 2, 2018 13:58
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Calaveron posted:Leo's still got a sword though I know, that's why I said everything else aside. Maybe Leo's sword isn't actually metal and can only hurt your "spirit" or whatever as it cuts through you. But Raph and Mike's weapons have glowing energy so probably not.
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Feb 2, 2018 14:55
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 Best crossover. edit: also that new thing looks like Loonatics Unleashed so I'm expecting it to do about as well. ryonguy fucked around with this message at 18:40 on Feb 2, 2018 |
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Feb 2, 2018 18:38
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Ninja Turtles to me is the first movie, the arcade game, and the art on the original NES or Tiger Electronics game. Everything else is irrelevant.
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Feb 2, 2018 18:43
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It may have been terribly balanced, but I legit loved the TMNT Fighting game on SNES.
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Feb 2, 2018 18:44
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Usagi Yojimbo is the best.
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Feb 2, 2018 18:56
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Raph having tonfa instead of sais lets him hit stuff instead of stab stuff, which is good! Except it kinda treads into Nunchuk territory, but now Mikey has some sort of yo-yo thing, so we're clear there I figure Leo having one sword lets him do more punching and kicking instead of just slashing with two swords all over the place? Maybe?
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Feb 2, 2018 19:16
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Are we sure they're changing Raph's weapons to tonfas so he can hit people now? Because it seems kind of a silly change, considering Leo's sword can still slice a person open.
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Feb 2, 2018 19:23
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The 2003 show I enjoyed most, probably because it was what I watched as a kid. I watched a few episodes of the old show back in the older days of youtube when you could just find old TV shows unedited, and it was about what you'd expect from an 80s kids' show. Then I watched an episode from one of the later seasons and it was crazy, they were all in some kind of resistance movement in an alien-occupied futuristic New York? Not particularly any better, but it filled me with wonder as to what the hell happened in the earlier seasons to get to that. The Archie comic was technically my first exposure to TMNT, although I only had a few issues. There was even more confusion as to what anything was. There was one where one of the turtles was having troubles getting accepted by his fox girlfriend's family and maybe fought somebody to death? There was one where the turtles were skulking around on an alien spaceship with an alien turtle from either another planet or dimension talking about how his savage people all destroyed themselves, and there was one with the turtles as kids, before they differentiated themselves with colors. Kinda wild shift in tone there. The CGI cartoon was probably much more well-thought-out, and higher quality, with long running storylines planned from the start and evolving relationships (aside from whatever the hell was going on with Donny) and character arcs, and I liked it a good bit, although I'm still left nostalgic for the first show I saw, like Baxter Stockman steadily losing bodyparts after each failure or the turtles finding an underground society of monster people under their sewer lair. Krang-speak also gets old after a while, and for some reason I totally lost interest in the show towards the end. I think in general cartoons have been getting better over time, although you still get a few stinkers.
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Feb 2, 2018 19:34
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I saw a couple of episodes of the cartoon in the 80's, liked it, then saw the original comic on a shelf in a book store and boy was that an eye opener for 8 or 9 year old me. Slightly different style and content.
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Feb 2, 2018 19:47
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ToastyPotato posted:It may have been terribly balanced, but I legit loved the TMNT Fighting game on SNES. Same, but the Genesis version.
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Feb 2, 2018 20:50
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ToastyPotato posted:It may have been terribly balanced, but I legit loved the TMNT Fighting game on SNES. TMNT Tournament Fighters on SNES was so good. The graphics, sounds, characters, levels were all awesome.
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Feb 2, 2018 21:50
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Open Marriage Night posted:Same, but the Genesis version. Sisyphus the poo poo Weevil > Armagon the Street Shark
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Feb 2, 2018 21:53
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I have really fond memories of the 2003 cartoon and refuse to let anything sully that.
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Feb 2, 2018 23:38
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ryonguy posted:
I think Usagi crossed over with every version of the turtles so far. Except the movie continuity I guess. Open Marriage Night posted:Same, but the Genesis version. That version is so much worse than the SNES one in every way. SlothfulCobra posted:The 2003 show I enjoyed most, probably because it was what I watched as a kid. I was almost 20 when that came out, so I was definitely too old to look past its flaws, and it hadn't been long enough since the original show went off the air for me to get all nostalgic. I watched a couple episodes and I was like "eh, I guess kids will really like this". It wasn't until much later in life that I subjected myself to the entire series, and it was not worth it. It was certainly better than most other kids' show airing on FOX at the time. What a dark time for saturday mornings. Lurdiak fucked around with this message at 23:48 on Feb 2, 2018 |
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Feb 2, 2018 23:42
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the CGI cartoon does the same thing that bothers me about the new cartoon's designs; the weird fixation on giving the turtles really prominent and distinct teeth weirds me out. But maybe I'm just weird.
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Feb 3, 2018 00:14
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Lurdiak posted:It was certainly better than most other kids' show airing on FOX at the time. What a dark time for saturday mornings. Fox Kids' programming had gone down the drain way before they changed it to FoxBox. Before the reboot I think the only thing they had left going for them was Digimon Tamers.
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Feb 3, 2018 00:47
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My first exposure to TMNT was my parents buying me a toy at a yard sale of a van that shot plastic pizzas. Later on I did watch some on a VHS at my cousin's house and the entire time I was waiting on the pizza van to appea:, as though it was an important part of the lore.
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Feb 3, 2018 01:32
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Sockser posted:Raph having tonfa instead of sais lets him hit stuff instead of stab stuff, which is good! Like most people you appear to not know how Sai's work. They are mainly used as blunt weapons.
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Feb 3, 2018 01:34
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TwoPair posted:My first exposure to TMNT was my parents buying me a toy at a yard sale of a van that shot plastic pizzas. Later on I did watch some on a VHS at my cousin's house and the entire time I was waiting on the pizza van to appea:, as though it was an important part of the lore. I don't think it shot pizzas, but the van kept showing up, and was pretty cool.  Also some insane people made real life versions of the toy version of the van.  Maybe it shoots pizzas. Lurdiak fucked around with this message at 01:42 on Feb 3, 2018 |
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Feb 3, 2018 01:38
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Lurdiak posted:I don't think it shot pizzas, but the van kept showing up, and was pretty cool. This might be The Mandela Effect or something, but I'm pretty sure at one point it shot manhole covers in the original cartoon, but probably just for an episode.
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Feb 3, 2018 01:44
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Feb 3, 2018 01:50
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Skwirl posted:This might be The Mandela Effect or something, but I'm pretty sure at one point it shot manhole covers in the original cartoon, but probably just for an episode. You're talking about a show where one episode they forgot that the turtles used to be regular reptiles so Michelangelo got "demutated" back into a human. Anything goes.
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Feb 3, 2018 01:56
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Good to know that Kids These Days® will get to experience TMNT the way I did, weird and devoid of context.
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Feb 3, 2018 02:06
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who's cowabunga carl
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Feb 3, 2018 02:09
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lol I didn't even notice that I have no idea
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Feb 3, 2018 02:13
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There was a vehicle that shot pizzas in the original toyline, but it wasn't a van, it was some weird, large... thing. It was almost tank like, but it had "wheels". I had it.
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Feb 3, 2018 02:16
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Carl's the van I figure.
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Feb 3, 2018 02:19
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ToastyPotato posted:There was a vehicle that shot pizzas in the original toyline, but it wasn't a van, it was some weird, large... thing. It was almost tank like, but it had "wheels". I had it. 
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Feb 3, 2018 02:24
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Amazon posted:Product description Come to think of it, a lot of these old shows are like 60% merchandising. You're probably missing out on a lot without the context of the toys the cartoon is selling. Edit: Oh wow, it really was in the movie https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oyjpmeSEm2Y SlothfulCobra fucked around with this message at 02:37 on Feb 3, 2018 |
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Feb 3, 2018 02:31
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Lobok posted:Carl's the van I figure. In that particular movie Mikey makes money by wearing a giant foam turtle head and being a children’s birthday party mascot named Cowabunga Carl. Also Donny does remote tech support from the sewer.
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Feb 3, 2018 02:32
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Also the van shows up in the new Bay movie, but it was a cool rear end dump truck and did indeed shoot manhole covers
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Feb 3, 2018 02:56
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SlothfulCobra posted:Come to think of it, a lot of these old shows are like 60% merchandising. You're probably missing out on a lot without the context of the toys the cartoon is selling. 60% is probably a low ball figure. http://tfwiki.net/wiki/To_sell_toys
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Feb 3, 2018 03:02
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Skwirl posted:60% is probably a low ball figure. http://tfwiki.net/wiki/Optimash_Prime http://tfwiki.net/wiki/Bumble_Spud Jesus christ.
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Feb 3, 2018 05:40
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